Greek Government Press Briefing, 98-02-04

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From: The Hellenic Ministry of Press & Mass Media <http://www.minpress.gr/>

YPOYRGEIO TYPOY & MESWN MAZIKHS ENHMERWSHS

Aqhna, 4.2.1998

H ENHMERWSH TWN POLITIKWN SYNTAKTWN KAI TWN ANTAPOKRITWN JENOY TYPOY APO TON YPOYRGO TYPOY & MESWN MAZIKHS ENHMERWSHS KAI KYBERNHTIKO EKPROSWPO DHMHTRH REPPA

Geia sas.

Akoyw tis erwthseis sas.

GARGALAKOS: Poia einai h gnwmh sas gia thn krish sth Nea Dhmokratia;

REPPAS: H Nea Dhmokratia einai ayth poy htan, xwris epejergasmenes qeseis gia ta problhmata toy topoy, xwris programma gia thn prooptikh ths xwras kai thn poreia toy eqnoys sto mellon. Paramenei desmia toy anaxronistikoy kai palaiokommatikoy parelqontos ths.

BITSENTZOY: Pisteyete oti hrqe h arxh toy teloys twn polysyllektikwn h polytasikwn kommatwn kai qewreite oti oi ejelijeis aytes sth Nea Dhmokratia epitaxynoyn h anastelloyn analoges ejelijeis kai sto diko sas komma;

REPPAS: Sto plaisio mias politikhs enhmerwshs, den einai dynaton na kanoyme tetoioy eidoys analyseis h politikes ektimhseis. An qelete na milhsw gia logariasmo ths Kybernhshs, mporw na arkestw se ayto: H Kybernhsh emforeitai apo aisqhma eyqynhs. Ayto ths ypagoreyei na asxoleitai me ta problhmata poy antimetwpizei o ellhnikos laos, giati ayth thn entolh exoyme, na lysoyme ta problhmata toy topoy. To kybernhtiko ergo ayth thn epidiwjh exei, na dhmioyrghsei proypoqeseis gia thn isxyrh Ellada toy 21oy aiwna. Den einai dynaton, thn wra poy exoyme na antimetwpisoyme ayta ta megala eqnika kai koinwnika zhthmata, na epitrecoyme ston eayto mas thn enasxolhsh me ektimhseis, parathrhseis, sxoliasmoys kai epishmanseis gia tis politikes ejelijeis, genikws kai aoristws. Ayto einai kati poy kanei kata systhma h Nea Dhmokratia, h opoia, opws exw pei polles fores, exei metablhqei se politiko parathrhthrio, pareyrisketai, xairetizei, epishmainei, sxoliazei. O rolos o dikos mas einai na kybernhsoyme ton topo. Na kybernhsoyme swsta lynontas ta problhmata poy apasxoloyn ton ellhniko lao, dhmioyrgwntas thn isxyrh Ellada. Ayto epidiwkoyme, ayto epiqymoyme na epityxoyme.

MOYRTZHS: Thn prwth dhlwsh sas mporw na thn eklabw ws politikh parembash sta eswterika ths Neas Dhmokratias. Me poia ennoia; Lete oti h Nea Dhmokratia einai desmia toy anaxronistikoy, palaiokommatikoy parelqontos ths. Dhladh, kanete mia diakrish se sxesh me th shmerinh hgesia ths kai toys diagrafentes; Mporw na to eklabw kai etsi;

REPPAS: Ma, ayth einai mia analysh thn opoia exoyme kanei edw kai arketo kairo. Exw ekfrasei ayth th qesh, kat' epanalhch. Den omilw prwth fora, xrhsimopoiwntas tis lejeis aytes. Einai kati to opoio den prepei na sas jenizei. H Nea Dhmokratia, me polloys tropoys, exei deijei oti einai komma toy parelqontos.

MIXAHL: Kyrie Ekproswpe, to gegonos oti sth Nea Dhmokratia exei jespasei ayth h krish, sas anhsyxei oson afora th staqerothta kai thn isorropia toy politikoy systhmatos; Giati pera apo kaqe Kybernhsh, xreiazetai kai mia Antipoliteysh. Dedomenoy oti h Antipoliteysh perna mia krish ...

REPPAS: Emeis pisteyoyme oti oi dhmokratikoi qesmoi prepei na einai ygieis. Prepei, omws, gia na to epityxoyme ayto, ta politika kommata na exoyn safeis qeseis kai sygkekrimeno programma gia th diaxeirish twn megalwn qematwn toy topoy. Otan ayto den symbainei, h Dhmokratia einai elleimmatikh. Exoyn xreos, loipon, ta kommata na exoyn aposafhnismenes qeseis gia ta problhmata poy apasxoloyn th xwra.

KIAOS: Qewreite oti oi apoceis poy ekfrazoyn oi diagrafentes kai kyriws probeblhmena stelexh, an mporw na to pw, poy diegrafhsan, einai pio konta sthn politikh ths Kybernhsews;

REPPAS: H politikh ths Kybernhshs exei diatypwqei kai efarmozetai. To kybernhtiko ergo den einai tipota allo, para h metoysiwsh sthn prajh ths entolhs poy exoyme apo ton ellhniko lao. Oi apoceis tis opoies ekfrazoyn stelexh allwn kommatwn -kai milw genika gia stelexh allwn kommatwn- mporei sygkrinomenes me to programma kai thn politikh poy akoloyqoyme, na sas bohqhsoyn na bgalete ta symperasmata sas. Ayto to opoio epanalambanw kai eimai kathgorhmatikos kai safhs se ayto poy prepei emeis na kanoyme, einai na asxolhqoyme aperispasta me thn proodo toy kybernhtikoy ergoy, gia na antimetwpisoyme ta problhmata ths xwras. Den mas endiaferei an kapoios exei mia apoch h opoia einai pio konta h pio makria apo tis apoceis tis opoies diatypwnoyme emeis. Ayto to opoio mas endiaferei einai na exoyme safeis politikes qeseis, wste me bash to sygkekrimeno programma mas na antimetwpizoyme kai na lynoyme problhmata. Ayto einai poy mas endiaferei.

KAMPOYRGIANNH: Anagnwrizete, kyrie Ekproswpe, oti yparxoyn orizonties grammes poy diatrexoyn ta kommata kai poia einai h dynamikh aytoy toy fainomenoy; Pws qa ephreasei ta kommata;

REPPAS: Ta kommata me ta organa toys kanoyn tis analyseis kai tis ektimhseis toys. H Kybernhsh -epanalambanw- qewrei oti h politikh ths kalyptei ena poly megalo fasma ths koinhs gnwmhs. Qa elega oti kalyptei ena pleiochfiko tmhma twn Ellhnwn politwn, to opoio einai ypertero ariqmhtika twn eklogewn toy PASOK, stis prosfates ekloges. Me ayth thn ennoia, h politikh mas pisteyoyme oti einai h monadikh epilogh, o xwris enallaktikh protash dromos poy prepei na akoloyqhsoyme gia thn isxyrh Ellada toy 21oy aiwna.

KAMPOYRGIANNH: Allo sas rwthsa

REPPAS: Katalaba poly kala ti me rwthsate.

KIAOS: An epitrepete ...

REPPAS: Parte, k. Kiao, to logo eseis kai diatypwste pali to erwthma.

KIAOS: Ti na pw; Den qa mas apanthsete pali.

REPPAS: Eseis, omws, den apogohteyeste, giati syxnotata, kaqe mera, rwtate kai janarwtate. Etsi den einai; Qelete ka Kampoyrgiannh na epanalabete thn erwthsh sas, diatypwmenh alliws, wste na einai pio safhs;

KAMPOYRGIANNH: Einai h erwthsh poy exei ginei dyo-treis fores kai qa thn epanalabw.

REPPAS: Eidate, loipon, poy exw dikio.

KAMPOYRGIANNH: An anagnwrizete, loipon, pws yparxoyn orizonties grammes poy diatrexoyn ta kommata; Poia ektimate oti einai h dynamikh aytoy toy fainomenoy kai qa ephreasei to politiko skhniko toy topoy;

REPPAS: Eipa kai epanalambanw: Einai dynaton ayth thn wra na syzhtoyme san na eimaste se kapoio kommatiko organo h san na eimaste ena institoyto to opoio kanei analyseis gia tis politikes ejelijeis; Edw miloyme sto plaisio ths enhmerwshs gia qemata ta opoia aforoyn tis qeseis ths Kybernhshs, se sxesh me tis armodiothtes kai tis ejoysies poy exei h ta kaqhkonta poy exei analabei. Emeis pisteyoyme oti to programma to opoio efarmozoyme einai to mono poy mporei na dwsei apanthsh sta megala qemata poy apasxoloyn ton topo. Kai me ayth thn ennoia, epeidh den yparxei enallaktikos dromos, kalyptei ena pleiochfiko fasma, qa elega, ths Koinhs Gnwmhs. Kai milhsa gia fasma, epeidh akribws kalyptei kai polites oi opoioi den exoyn chfisei to PASOK. Anagnwrizoyn, omws, tis prospaqeies poy kanei h Kybernhsh gia diarqrwtikes allages, gia thn anaptyjh ths oikonomias mas, gia thn endynamwsh twn dhmokratikwn qesmwn kai gia thn enisxysh ths dieqnoys qeshs ths Elladas. Gia thn isxyrh Ellada, toy 21oy aiwna. Me ayto asxoloymaste. Den nomizoyme oti yparxoyn -giati apanthsa kai sth dikh sas erwthsh- aytes oi diasyndeseis, opws to qetete eseis.

KWNSTANTINIDHS: Par' osa eipate yparxei h entypwsh oti meta th diaspash poy odhgeitai h Nea Dhmokratia, oti yparxei kindynos ta dyo megala kommata na odhghqoyn stis idies katastaseis kai na odhghqoyn se mia "italopoihsh" ths politikhs zwhs ths Ellados. Nomizete oti odeyoyme pros ta kei;.

REPPAS: Me anagkazete pali na milhsw ek meroys toy kommatos. Sas lew, loipon, poia einai h optikh ths Kybernhshs gia tis ejelijeis. H Kybernhsh pisteyei oti epeidh akribws exei sygkekrimeno programma, basei toy opoioy proodeyei to kybernhtiko ergo, tetoio qema den yparxei, oson afora to diko mas politiko xwro. Giati ola ayta ta opoia symbainoyn, den einai tipota allo, para mia reystothta poy einai apotelesma ayths ths politikhs asafeias h ths programmatikhs adynamias. Otan ayta yparxoyn, logiko einai, ej antikeimenoy pia, na prokyptoyn ta apotelesmata ayta. Tetoia gnwrismata den yparxoyn sto diko mas xwro.

MPOGIOPOYLOS: H Kybernhsh, sto baqmo poy stelexh allwn kommatwn h politikoi paragontes, symfwnoyn me to programma ths, kai ayto to diapistwnete kai eseis, skeftetai na apeyqynei ena kalesma gia kalyterh synergasia me aytoys toys paragontes;

REPPAS: H Kybernhsh exei eklegei apo ton ellhniko lao kai apeyqynetai ston ellhniko lao, toy opoioy zhta th synexh yposthrijh kai bohqeia, th dikh toy dhladh symbolh, prokeimenoy na oloklhrwsei th qhteia ths me epityxia. Apo ekei kai pera, opoies dynameis, ston politiko h se alloys xwroys, diatypwnoyn apoceis, exoyn dikaiwma na diatypwnoyn aytes tis apoceis. Emeis, den prokeitai na analaboyme opoiadhpote prwtoboylia, na steiloyme ena opoiodhpote mhnyma, giati den einai aytos o rolos mas, den einai ayto to ergo poy mas exe anaqesei o ellhnikos laos. Ayto to opoio kanoyme kai qa synexisoyme na kanoyme, einai aperispasta na bohqhsoyme, wste h epomenh periodos na einai gia thn Ellada poly kalyterh. Ayth einai h prospaqeia mas, aytos einai o stoxos mas.

STAMATOPOYLOS: Ektos apo toys boyleytes ths Neas Dhmokratias, poy htan ektos grammhs kai apo to PASOK polloi boyleytes htan kai aytoi ektos grammhs, giati den thrhsan th grammh poy eixe dwsei o Prwqypoyrgos. Giati o Prwqypoyrgos "katapie" ayth thn .......

REPPAS: Apanthsa gia ayta ta qemata xqes.

STAMATOPOYLOS: Ti apanthsate, xqes;

REPPAS: Eipa xqes oti h kybernhsh proteine mia ryqmish, h opoia chfisthke kai egine nomos toy Kratoys kai etsi h Kybernhsh exei sth diaqesh ths ena poly apotelesmatiko ergaleio, wste se synennohsh me toys ekproswpoys twn ergazomenwn, na proxwrhsei se diarqrwtikes allages, prokeimenoy na epityxoyme thn ejygiansh twn epixeirhsewn toy Dhmosioy, poy einai zhmiogones kai elleimmatikes.

STAMATOPOYLOS: Kai merikoi kybernhtikoi boyleytes milhsan kai shkwqhkan ki efygan apo th Boylh kai den chfisan.

REPPAS: Kyrie Stamatopoyle, yparxei proodos sto kybernhtiko ergo. H diatajh ayth, poy apotelei pleon diatajh nomoy, anoigei nees dynatothtes, prosferei nees eykairies, prokeimenoy na antimetwpisoyme xronizonta problhmata. To PASOK sthrizetai sth Boylh apo to synolo twn boyleytwn toy. Me ayth thn ennoia, loipon, mhn anazhteite, ektrepontas alloy th syzhthsh poy kanoyme edw...

MIXAHL: Giati den toys diagracate, ayto rwthse.

REPPAS: ...mhn anazhteite"antistaqmistikes dieykolynseis" prokeimenoy na kanete ki eseis tis politikes sas ektimhseis.

STAMATOPOYLOS: Egw rwthsa, den ekana ektimhseis. Egracan sta "palia toys ta papoytsia" mia grammh, mia apofash ths Kybernhshs. Aytoi den qa timwrhqoyn;

REPPAS: Den gnwrizw na chfise kapoios enantion ayths ths diatajhs. Kai gnwrizete para poly kala, giati exoyme, polles fores, syzhthsei gi' ayto to qema, oti oi boyleytes ekfrazoyn eleyqera tis apoceis toys sth Boylh. To anaferei to Syntagma, einai symfwno ayto me tis arxes leitoyrgias toy Kommatos mas. Otan tiqetai qema gia th sthrijh ths Kybernhshs, epeidh h chfos exei ena xarakthra chfoy empistosynhs pros thn Kybernhsh, tote, bebaiws, yparxoyn analogoi xeirismoi. Apo kei kai pera omws h Kybernhsh noiwqei staqerothta, noiwqei oti yparxei asfaleia se tetoio baqmo, wste na mhn thn apasxoloyn tetoia qemata.

STAMATOPOYLOS: Giati toys alloys toys diegrace tote;

REPPAS: Exete, hdh, tis apanthseis apo to osa eipa mexri twra.

STAMATOPOYLOS: Xrhsimopoiei o Prwqypoyrgos alla metra kai alla staqma; Alloys toys diagrafei...

REPPAS: Ayth einai h dikh sas gnwmh. To qema einai oti o Prwqypoyrgos synexizei na einai Prwqypoyrgos ths xwras kai Proedros mias pleiochfoysas kai sth Boylh Paratajhs, h opoia exei enan ariqmo boyleytwn poy paramenei akeraios, opws htan otan eklexqhke to synolo twn boyleytwn meta tis ekloges toy Oktwbrioy 1996. Ayto den prepei na to parablepete. Kapoioys toys dysarestei, metajy twn opoiwn fainetai oti eiste ki eseis. Sas parakalw, omws, para poly, th stenaxwria sas mhn thn kanete qema gia politikh syzhthsh. Einai allo to ena, allo to allo.

STAMATOPOYLOS: Den eimai kaqoloy dysaresthmenos, moy aresei emena ayto.

REPPAS: Tote, eiste apo toys eyxaristhmenoys! Edw, omws, ayto akribws epishmainw me aformh ta osa eipate: Edw den miloyme oyte ws eyxaristhmenoi, oyte ws dysaresthmenoi.

STAMATOPOYLOS: Eseis to lete.

REPPAS: Edw miloyme kata enan tropo antikeimeniko, se mia oydeterh bash, qa elega, me thn ennoia oti eseis qetete qemata ki egw dinw thn enhmerwsh gia ta qemata poy qetete.

STAMATOPOYLOS: Den qelete na eimaste oloi eyxaristhmenoi;

REPPAS: Oyte eyxaristhmenoi, oyte dysaresthmenoi. Na eimaste ypeyqynoi, gia na proseggizoyme ta qemata me ena nhfalio kai cyxraimo tropo.

TOYMASHS: Eipate sthn arxh -kai mallon diapistwqhke lyph ston xarakthrismo- oti h N.D. einai desmia toy anaxronistikoy ths parelqontos. Prin apo merikes meres h Kybernhsh eixe aporricei th syntagmatikh katoxyrwsh orwn dhmokratikhs leitoyrgias twn kommatwn. Den qa bohqoyse ston eksygxronismo twn orwn leitoyrgias twn kommatwn mia analogh syntagmatikh katoxyrwsh; Den anaqewreite thn apoch sas meta ta teleytaia ...

REPPAS: Sthn Epitroph poy syzhta thn Anaqewrhsh toy Syntagmatos, egine h syzhthsh kai gi' ayto to qema. Exoyn diatypwqei oles oi apoceis. Oi syzhthseis aytes qa ginoyn kai argotera. Emeis pisteyoyme oti ta politika kommata einai systatika stoixeia toy dhmokratikoy politeymatos. Bebaiws, exoyn ta Katastatika kai toys Kanonismoys Leitoyrgias poy diepoyn tis eswterikes diadikasies toys. Qewreitai oti einai ypermetros periorismos sthn politikh leitoyrgia twn Organismwn aytwn na problefqei me kaqe leptomereia to pws qa leitoyrgoyn. Allwste -epanalambanw kai ayto einai para poly shmantiko- ta Kommata den einai enwseis prowqhshs symferontwn. Ta Kommata einai synola sta opoia symmetexoyn oi polites se eqelontikh bash, prokeimenoy na ejyphrethqei o meizwn skopos, poy einai to eqniko kai to dhmosio symferon. Me ayth thn ennoia, mhn prospaqoyme, mesw twn diadikastikwn kai organwtikwn proseggisewn, na lysoyme politika qemata.

TOYMASHS: Apo th stigmh omws poy einai basika systatika ths omalhs leitoyrgias toy politeymatos, o eksygxronismos toys...

REPPAS: Einai. Kai o rolos toys anagnwrizetai. Ayto den shmainei oti prepei mesa sto Syntagma na problepontai tetoies ryqmiseis, oi opoies me kaqe leptomereia qa orizoyn to pws leitoyrgoyn ta Kommata. Einai mia allh proseggish kai sas eipa gia poio logo.

T. MPERMPERAKHS: Qa hqela prwton, an mporeite na mas peite gia thn krish ston Kolpo poy deixnei na anazwpyrwnetai kai deyteron, ean oi HPA zhthsan kapoioy eidoys syndromh ths Elladas kai poia einai h apanthsh poy dinei h Ellhnikh Kybernhsh;

REPPAS: O k. Gkrosman episkefqhke thn Ellada. Syzhthse me ton k. Tsoxatzopoylo, toy aneptyje toys problhmatismoys ths Kybernhshs toy gia thn katastash poy dhmioyrgeitai, meta ta teleytaia gegonota ston Kolpo. H qesh ths ellhnikhs kybernhshs einai safhs. Pisteyoyme oti prepei na efarmozontai oi apofaseis toy Symboylioy Asfaleias toy OHE. Asfalws, eimaste antiqetoi sthn paragwgh, katoxh kai xrhsh oplwn mazikhs katastrofhs. Kai, bebaiws, pisteyoyme oti me eirhnikoys tropoys, me synennohsh prepei na antimetwpizoyme ta qemata. Eimaste enantion ths analhchs stratiwtikhs drashs. Den eqese o Amerikanos Ekproswpos opoiodhpote tetoio qema, dhladh, analhch stratiwtikhs drashs apo thn pleyra twn HPA h alloy Dieqnoys Organismoy, oyte zhthse kapoia dikh mas syndromh. Htan mia syzhthsh, prokeimenoy na anaferqei o problhmatismos kai na enhmerwqoyme gia tis qeseis ths Amerikanikhs Kybernhshs. Tipote allo. Emeis diatypwsame tis qeseis mas sto triptyxo to opoio anefera apantwntas prin.

MOSXOBAS: Xqes sto Ektelestiko Grafeio, kai se dhlwseis toy stoys dhmosiografoys, o Prwqypoyrgos ekane sygkekrimenes anafores. Qa hqela mia dieykrinish, gia to poioys apodektes eixe h anafora toy, se sxesh me to oti "sto eswteriko mas hqelhmena h aqelhta sthnetai h pagida ths eswstrefeias". Yparxoyn kapoioi sygkekrimena poy sthnoyn tetoia pagida; Poioys apodektes eixe ayth h dhlwsh;

REPPAS: Ta qemata toy Kommatos h twn synedriasewn toy E.G. den einai dynaton na ta syzhtoyme edw. Apo kei kai pera, h dhlwsh poy ekane o Prwqypoyrgos stoys dhmosiografoys periexei anafores se ola ayta ta qemata, opote exete apo prwto xeri tis apanthseis.

MOSXOBAS: Gia apodektes den eipe.

REPPAS: Exete apanthsh gia tis erwthseis sas. As mhn ermhneyoyme aytes tis dhlwseis. Oloi -eite einai enas, eite einai polloi- osoi epidiwkoyn, eite epeidh qewroyn oti yparxoyn qemata sto Komma ta opoia prepei na lyqoyn, kata th dikh toys apoch, eite xwris na to epiqymoyn, me th stash toys ej antikeimenoy odhgoyn se mia tetoia eswstrefeia, qewroyme -kai ayto eipe o Prwqypoyrgos- oti den symballoyn qetika sthn prospaqeia poy kanei to PASOK kai h Kybernhsh na antimetwpisei ta problhmata ths xwras. Ara, loipon, den yparxei xwros sthn politikh mas gia eswstrefeia. Ayto einai to mhnyma.

KARASABBA: Se synexeia ths erwthshs toy k. Mpermperakh, ara, symfwna me thn apanthsh sas, xairetizete thn toyrkikh diamesolabhtikh prospaqeia gia to problhma ston Kolpo.

REPPAS: Prosejte. Yparxoyn apofaseis toy OHE. Emeis pisteyoyme oti aytes prepei na efarmostoyn. Opoiosdhpote mporei na symbalei sthn efarmogh twn apofasewn toy OHE, pisteyoyme oti prosferei qetiko ergo. Elpizoyme kai h Toyrkia, gia qemata ta opoia einai se ejelijh sthn perioxh -kapoia ek twn opoiwn synistoyn kai megala problhmata poy xronizoyn- na symmorfwqei kai h idia kai na symbalei sthn efarmogh twn apofasewn toy OHE. Asfalws, opoia xwra symballei sthn efarmogh twn apofasewn toy Symboylioy Asfaleias exei qetikh symbolh sth dieqnh koinothta. Asfalws, ayto den mporei na to amfisbhthsei kaneis. Kai elpizoyme ayth h qetikh symbolh na yparxei gia to synolo twn qematwn poy apasxoloyn thn perioxh mas.

KARASABBA: Tetoia diplwmatikh symbolh zhthqhke apo thn Ellada h protiqetai h Ellada na prosferei;

REPPAS: H Ellada den protiqetai na analabei kapoia prwtoboylia, doqentos oti yparxei sygkekrimeno plaisio, me bash thn apofash toy Symboylioy Asfaleias. To qema einai na efarmostei ayto to plaisio. Ayto antilambaneste pws einai ena genikotero problhma, to opoio prokyptei se polles periptwseis. Eite afora to Kypriako, eite afora alles perioxes toy kosmoy kai alla problhmata, yparxoyn apofaseis toy OHE. To qema einai an efarmozontai kai an symballoyn oles oi pleyres, oi opoies exoyn amesh h emmesh sxesh me to sygkekrimeno qema, sthn efarmogh twn apofasewn aytwn. Ayto den ginetai kai ayto einai to megalo problhma.

Sas eyxaristw.

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