Greek Government Press Briefing, 98-01-07

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From: The Hellenic Ministry of Press & Mass Media <http://www.minpress.gr/>

YPOYRGEIO TYPOY & MESWN MAZIKHS ENHMERWSHS

Aqhna, 7.1.1998

H ENHMERWSH TWN POLITIKWN SYNTAKTWN KAI TWN ANTAPOKRITWN JENOY TYPOY APO TON YPOYRGO TYPOY & MESWN MAZIKHS ENHMERWSHS KAI KYBERNHTIKO EKPROSWPO DHMHTRH REPPA

* Ayth thn ebdomada qa ginoyn diafores synanthseis toy Prwqypoyrgoy me Ypoyrgoys kai stelexh. Mporw na anaferqw sth synergasia poy exei shmera o Prwqypoyrgos me ton k. Tsoxatzopoylo kai ayrio me ton k. Skandalidh. Thn Paraskeyh qa synergastei gia ta qemata ths ellhnikhs oikonomias, tis prooptikes ths ellhnikhs oikonomias, me ton Ypoyrgo Eqnikhs Oikonomias kai to Dioikhth ths Trapezas ths Ellados. Epishs, thn Paraskeyh qa dextei kai ton Gallo Ypoyrgo Ejwterikwn k Bentrin, o opoios qa episkefqei thn Ellada. Thn Paraskeyh, sthn Ellada, qa brisketai kai o Kyprios Ypoyrgos Ejwterikwn, o k. Kasoylidhs, o opoios qa exei synergasia me thn politikh hgesia toy Ypoyrgeioy Ejwterikwn.

Ayta se poly genikes grammes gia na mpoyme siga-siga sto kaqierwmeno klima.

DHMOSIOGRAFOI: Den qa synedriasei thn Paraskeyh to Ypoyrgiko Symboylio;

REPPAS: Oxi. Milhsa, allwste, gia to programma ths Paraskeyhs.

SOYGLERHS: Qa pame pio xalara to 1998, kyrie Ypoyrge;

REPPAS: Den einai qema xalarwshs ths prospaqeias. Yparxei enas programmatismos, o opoios qa thrhqei me synepeia. Kai o programmatismos aytos exei to swsto ryqmo.

STAMATOPOYLOS: Kyrie Ypoyrge, poioi einai aytoi poy qeloyn na anatrecoyn ton k. Shmith;

REPPAS: Prepei na pw, k. Stamatopoyle, pws anafereste se synenteyjh poy exw dwsei. Alla, an qelete na sas paraxwrhsw kapoia synenteyjh, gia na pw tis proswpikes moy apoceis, eyxaristws na programmatisoyme mia tetoia synenteyjh. Den qa prepei omws, sto plaisio ths politikhs enhmerwshs, na syndeontai dyo diaforetika pragmata. Allo to ena, allo to allo.

STAMATOPOYLOS: Oxi. Giati ayto den mporeite na mas to apanthsete; Eseis ws Ypoyrgos Typoy ...

REPPAS: Den qa syzhthsoyme sto plaisio ths politikhs enhmerwshs synenteyjeis poy paraxwroyn Ypoyrgoi h stelexh. Einai allo to ena, allo to allo kai parakalw na mh ginetai ayth h sygxysh.

MIXAHL: Ektima h Kybernhsh oti yparxoyn kapoioi poy qeloyn na anatrecoyn ton k. Shmith;

REPPAS: H Kybernhsh exei th sthrijh olwn twn boyleytwn oi opoioi anhkoyn sto PASOK. Ayto einai gnwsto kai apodedeigmeno.

KWNSTANTINIDHS: Kyrie Ypoyrge, yparxei, ws gnwston, se ejelijh h toyrkikh askhsh. Eixame parabiaseis toy enaerioy xwroy ths Ellados. Qa qelate na kanete kapoio sxoliasmo; Epishs, exoyme kai mia nea askhsh poy ginetai metajy Toyrkias, Hnwmenwn Politeiwn kai Israhl, kai konta sta nera ths Kyproy.

REPPAS: Qa kanw ena geniko sxolio gi' ayta ta qemata. Pisteyoyme oti h politikh poy akoloyqei h Toyrkia einai politikh aytokatastrofikh. Den exei didaxqei, fainetai, apo ta epanalambanomena laqh ths. H politikh ayth, oxi mono den th fernei pio konta stoys stoxoys poy filodojei na proseggisei, antiqetws thn apomakrynei akomh perissotero. H Ellada, sthn perioxh ayth anadeiknyetai ws o shmantikoteros paragontas gia th staqerothta, thn asfaleia kai thn eirhnh. H symbolh mas ayth apokta akomh megalyterh ajia me dedomenh ayth thn politikh symperifora ths Toyrkias. Yparxei to qema twn laqrometanastwn. Einai meizon anqrwpistiko problhma. Qa prepei h Toyrkia na diaxeiristei sto eswteriko ths to problhma ayto, me politika kai oikonomika mesa, wste na to antimetwpisei kai na to lysei, anti na to xrhsimopoiei se kapoio baqmo, ejagontas to kiolas sto ejwteriko. H symperifora ths Toyrkias, xqes idiaiterws, fanerwnei thn adynamia ths na parakoloyqhsei ayta poy qewrhtikws toylaxiston, fainetai oti apodexetai. Na kanei dhladh, mia prospaqeia apoklimakwshs ths entashs stis ellhnotoyrkikes sxeseis, mia prospaqeia gia proseggish twn dyo xwrwn. Me th xqesinh kinhsh ths, oxi mono axrhsteyei ayto poy synomologhse o hgeths ths sth Madrith, alla epishs antistrateyetai kai to "Mnhmonio Papoylia - Gilmaz", to opoio edw kai arketa xronia eixe meinei anenergo kai oi dyo pleyres exoyn ekdhlwsei thn epiqymia toys kai th boylhsh toys na teqei se efarmogh. H Toyrkia, oysiastikws, me thn politikh ths to yponomeyei. Exoyn ginei oles oi anagkaies energeies apo thn pleyra mas. Den einai idion mias xwras, h opoia filodojei na akoloyqhsei eyrwpadkh troxia, na askei ejwterikh politikh, xrhsimopoiwntas tis Enoples Dynameis, katapatwntas to Dieqnes Dikaio, parabiazontas tis Dieqneis Synqhkes, yponomeyontas to pneyma twn sxesewn kalhs geitonias, to opoio qa prepei na xarakthrizei tis sxeseis olwn twn xwrwn sthn perioxh.

Oson afora to deytero skelos ths erwthshs sas, prepei na sas pw oti oi askhseis oi opoies ginontai me th synergasia twn HPA, ths Toyrkias kai toy Israhl, parakoloyqoyntai me endiaferon apo emas. Einai askhseis, opws exei dhlwqei, poy den strefontai enantion allwn xwrwn kai enantion ths Ellados. Dexomaste ayth thn ejhghsh. Ayto to opoio, me thn eykairia prepei na tonisw, einai oti qesh mas einai pws h politikh ajonwn den wfelei thn eirhnh, thn prospaqeia gia thn apoklimakwsh ths entashs kai thn empedwsh ths asfaleias sthn perioxh. Qa prepei oles oi xwres na exoyn kales sxeseis metajy toys. Den pisteyoyme oti h epilektikh h eklektikh synergasia, einai o kalyteros dromos, prokeimenoy na odhghqoyme se ayto to stoxo, gia thn eirhnh, thn asfaleia kai th staqerothta sth notioanatolikh Mesogeio kai Eyrwph.

KWNSTANTINIDHS: Einai bebaio oti h Ellada qa kanei parastaseis, sta dieqnh fora, sthn E.E. kai stis HPA. Kai to mega erwthma einai: Aytes tis proklhseis, tis toyrkikes, pws tis antimetwpizei h E.E., alla kai oi HPA;

REPPAS: H Eyrwpadkh Enwsh exei safestato plaisio gia tis sxeseis ths me thn Toyrkia. To plaisio ayto orizei tis ypoxrewseis, tis opoies analambanei h Toyrkia, prokeimenoy na entaxqei stoys eyrwpadkoys qesmoys. H Toyrkia, me th stash thn opoia threi, kaqe allo, para proseggizei sthn ekplhrwsh twn ypoxrewsewn poy prepei na analabei. Ayto -epanalambanw- thn odhgei se peraiterw apomakrynsh apo toys eyrwpadkoys stoxoys. Ta organa ths E.E. parakoloyqoyn tis ejelijeis aytes. Exoyn ginei sxetikes dhlwseis kai analoges parastaseis apo ajiwmatoyxoys ths E.E. Emeis parakoloyqoyme, epishs, tis ejelijeis. Exoyme ena idiaitero endiaferon, giati exoyme synora me thn Toyrkia. Eimaste h monh xwra ths E.E, poy synoreyei me thn Toyrkia. Epiqymoyme na yparxei staqerothta sthn Toyrkia. Den epiqymoyme thn periqwriopoihsh kai thn apomonwsh ths Toyrkias, giati akribws qewroyme pws mia Toyrkia apomonwmenh einai eyepiforh se politikes praktikes poy dynamitizoyn thn prospaqeia gia thn asfaleia kai th staqerothta sthn perioxh. Den qeloyme mia Toyrkia asydoth. Qeloyme mia Toyrkia, h opoia symmorfoymenh me toys kanones toy Dieqnoys Dikaioy, mporei na apotelesei tmhma ayths ths megalhs eyrwpadkhs oikogeneias. H Toyrkia, mexri twra, den kanei ta bhmata poy ths analogoyn. As aitiatai eaythn gia to oti paramenei makran toy oneiroy ths na entaxqei sthn E.E.

KWNSTANTINIDHS: Gia tis HPA;

REPPAS: Oi Hnwmenes Politeies exoyn diatypwsei thn politikh toys. Anamenoyme thn prwtoboylia gia to Kypriako, thn opoia, opws exoyme pei, qa energopoihsei o k. Xolmproyk meta tis kypriakes ekloges. Gia tis ellhnotoyrkikes sxeseis, einai gnwstes oi apoceis mas kai blepoyme oti kai oi HPA kanoyn anafora sto sebasmo toy Dieqnoys Dikaioy, sthn thrhsh twn Dieqnwn Synqhkwn kai sthn ajiopoihsh twn diadikasiwn toy Dikasthrioy ths Xaghs gia thn antimetwpish amfisbhthsewn, oi opoies egeirontai kata kairoys. Ayto to opoio epiqymoyme einai to "paixnidi" twn ellhnotoyrkikwn sxesewn na diejagetai basei kanonwn. Oi kanones aytoi einai gnwstoi, einai oi kanones oi opoioi xarakthrizoyn tis sxeseis olwn twn kratwn sto sygxrono politismeno kosmo. Me ayth thn ennoia, einai qema ths Toyrkias na enarmonistei me ayth th diadikasia. Einai qa elega kai mia proklhsh pros thn Toyrkia enocei toy 21oy aiwna.

KIAOS: Ti energeies exei kanei h Kybernhsh pros toys etairoys gia to Koyrdiko, gia to sygkekrimeno qema, pera apo th syskech sthn Italia;

REPPAS: Yparxei ayth h synergasia, h opoia ejelissetai sth Rwmh. Symmetexei, ekproswpwntas thn Ellhnikh Astynomia, o Arxhgos ths k. Basilopoylos, me ton Ajiwmatiko k. Gianne. Qa lhfqoyn apofaseis gia thn antimetwpish toy problhmatos twn laqrometanastwn. H Ellhnikh Kybernhsh exei edw kai arketo kairo epishmanei th shmasia, th diastash toy problhmatos twn laqrometanastwn, giati emeis plhttomaste apo to fainomeno ayto. Exoyme, kat' epanalhch, pei oti einai ena meizon qema, to opoio ephreazei tis ellhnotoyrkikes sxeseis. Xairomaste giati kai h E.E. epiteloys exei antilhfqei pws den einai ena perifereiako zhthma, to qema twn laqrometanastwn pros tis xwres ths E.E. Einai ena megalo qema, to opoio, kaqws perna o kairos, isws parei akomh megalyterh ektash. Gi' ayto qa prepei na antimetwpistei me eniaio kai apotelesmatiko tropo. Emeis symmetexoyme se aytes tis diadikasies kai symballoyme, wste na yparxei mia politikh antimetwpish toy problhmatos, h opoia qa einai h kalyterh dynath. Alla, pantws, oson afora to Koyrdiko -kai periorizomai twra mono s' ayto- h Toyrkia einai ayth poy kyriws, prepei sto eswteriko ths, me oikonomika kai politika mesa, na antimetwpisei kai na lysei to problhma.

KIAOS: Sas rwthsa gia sygkekrimenes energeies h protaseis ...

REPPAS: Sas eipa oti gia to qema ayto exoyme milhsei kat' epanalhch, edw kai para poly kairo.

KIAOS: Twra ti ginetai;

REPPAS: Twra, me toys presbeis me toys opoioys epikoinwnhse h politikh hgesia toy ypoyrgeioy Ejwterikwn, exei kanei thn analogh enhmerwsh. Exoyme diatypwsei tis idees mas, anamenoyme to qema ayto na apasxolhsei thn Epitroph. Hdh, o armodios Epitropos exei kanei sxetikes dhlwseis. Exei ekdhlwsei to endiaferon ths Epitrophs na analabei prwtoboylies se ayth thn kateyqynsh. Emeis, epanalambanw, exoyme thn epiqymia na symballoyme sto na oloklhrwqei mia sygkekrimenh politikh apo thn E.E. gia thn antimetwpish aytoy toy problhmatos.

KIAOS: Otan eipate gia toys presbeytes, ekane (h Kybernhsh) analogh kroysh, enhmerwsh, energeia, opws qelete peite to, kai pros thn pleyra toy presbeyth twn HPA;

REPPAS: Exoyme enhmerwsei gia ola ta qemata, ta opoia mas apasxoloyn, oson afora tis sxeseis mas me thn Toyrkia.

KIAOS: Sto sygkekrimeno. Epeidh to Koyrdiko einai sygkekrimeno qema.

REPPAS: Den einai sygkekrimeno me thn ennoia poy to qetete. Yparxei to genikotero problhma twn laqrometanastwn. Sto problhma twn laqrometanastwn entassetai kai h laqrometanasteysh Koyrdwn. Ayto einai to ena qema. Yparxei to Koyrdiko problhma, ws aytonomo qema. Ayto einai ena allhs tajhs qema, to opoio kaleitai h Toyrkia na antimetwpisei me politika kai oikonomika mesa.

KIAOS: Epeidh den egina katanohtos. Se ejarsh brisketai tis teleytaies hmeres to qema ths metanasteyshs twn Koyrdwn...

REPPAS: Oxi, proxqes, eixame kai metanasteysh Irakinwn.

KIAOS: Nai, kai Irakinwn. Exoyn kinhtopoihqei, opws eipate, epiteloys h E.E. kai oi etairoi mas. Sygkekrimena, exoyme th Syskech poy ginetai sth Rwmh, sthn opoia pairnei meros kai o Arxhgos poy eipate kai epeidh den exei ekfrastei h Oyasigkton, ston k. Mperns o k. Pagkalos h allos apo to ypoyrgeio Ejwterikwn, eipan, eseis ti kanete, ws pros to qema ayto; REPPAS: Jerete oti to qema twn laqrometanastwn den apasxolei thn Kybernhsh twn HPA, epeidh den plhttontai oi HPA.

KIAOS: To anqrwpistiko problhma;

REPPAS: Gi ayto sas eipa oti einai dyo diaforetika qemata. To anqrwpistiko problhma yparxei ws anqrwpistiko problhma gia toys laqrometanastes olwn twn eqnothtwn. Den afora mono toys Koyrdoys, afora kai toys alloys laqrometanastes. Yparxei to politiko problhma, to Koyrdiko, gia to opoio oloi exoyn kalesei thn Toyrkia na to antimetwpisei kai na to lysei, me politikes prwtoboylies, tis opoies kaleitai na analabei. Einai dyo diaforetika qemata. To qema ths laqrometanasteyshs apasxolei tis xwres ths E.E. epeidh aytes plhttontai, toylaxiston, me ta osa mexri twra gnwrizoyme.

KIAOS: Kai pws krinete eseis, ws Kybernhsh, enw ginetai aytos o "jeshkwmos" kai gia to Koyrdiko kai gia toys laqrometanastes k.lp. exoyme th stratiwtikh synergasia Toyrkias, HPA, Israhl, se koina gymnasia.

REPPAS: Ekana ena sxolio, prin, gi ayto. Bebaiws, oi xwres mporoyn na apofasisoyn na pragmatopoioyn gymnasia me synergasies, tis opoies synaptoyn, kai diatypwsa mia qesh: H qesh ths ellhnikhs Kybernhshs einai oti h politikh ajonwn den qewroyme oti symballei sthn empedwsh ths eirhnhs kai ths asfaleias sthn perioxh.

PAYLOPOYLOS: H germanikh Kybernhsh exei kanei mia protash stis mesogeiakes xwres Gallia, Italia kai Ellada, na symbalei kai ayth me emcyxo kai acyxo yliko, wste na elegxontai kalytera ta qalassia synora gia th diodo laqrometanastwn, opws Irakinwn k.lp. qewrwntas oti den froyroyntai kala ta synora se aytes tis xwres. H ellhnikh Kybernhsh dexetai ayth thn protash ths Germanias;

REPPAS: Ola ayta ta qemata syzhtoyntai kai sth Syskech, h opoia ginetai, shmera, sth Rwmh, alla, qa ginei syzhthsh, gia ta qemata ayta kai se epomeno stadio, sto plaisio ths E.E. Emeis, to eipa allwste sthn arxh kai hmoyn safhs, eimaste etoimoi na symmetasxoyme se opoiadhpote diadikasia, h opoia qa kanei apotelesmatikoterh thn antimetwpish aytoy toy problhmatos. Poly perissotero, otan epeidh akribws emeis geitniazoyme me thn Toyrkia, eimaste h xwra poy antimetwpizei kai to megalytero problhma. Einai mia idea poy exei diatypwqei. Oles aytes oi idees mpainoyn sto trapezi. Qa mas apasxolhsoyn kai qa lhfqoyn oi telikes apofaseis.

PAYLOPOYLOS: Na to kanw pio sygkekrimeno;

REPPAS: Mhn to kanete pio sygkekrimeno giati, hdh, egw eimai arketa sygkekrimenos.

PAYLOPOYLOS: Yparxei periptwsh na doyme sto mellon na peripoloyn kai na fylane ta ellhnika synora ploia ths germanikhs aktofylakhs;

REPPAS: Eidate, loipon, poy fqanoyme se yperboles. Gi ayto eipa na mhn to kanete pio sygkekrimeno, giati gnwrizete poly kala, oti ta synora kaqe xwras fylassontai apo tis dynameis ths sygkekrimenhs xwras. Emeis exoyme ayth thn idiomorfia sta synora mas. Exoyme, dhladh, ektetamena qalassia synora. Antilambaneste oti eimaste sthn prwth "grammh pyros". Kai prepei me tis dikes mas dynameis na enteinoyme tis prospaqeies mas gia na antimetwpisoyme to problhma. Qa dexqoyme th bohqeia kai th syneisfora olwn ekeinwn poy qeloyn genika, mesw programmatwn ekpaideyshs, na bohqhsoyn symballontas se ayth thn prospaqeia. Alla, pisteyoyme oti peran ths dikhs mas prospaqeias, h E.E. prepei na exei mia sygkekrimenh kai oloklhrwmenh politikh antimetwpishs toy problhmatos ths laqrometanasteyshs. Eipa kai prin oti einai ena problhma, poy isws ta epomena xronia entaqei kai qa prepei na exoyme mia sygkekrimenh politikh ws E.E. Ayth einai h dikh mas idea, h dikh mas protash, ayto einai to opoio epidiwkoyme emeis.

T. MPERMPERAKHS: An mporeite na mas dieykrinisete poio einai to sxolio ths ellhnikhs Kybernhshs gia th symmetoxh ths Toyrkias se ayth th trieqnh askhsh;

REPPAS: Einai dikaiwma twn xwrwn, opws eipa kai prin, na synergazontai metajy toys kai na diejagagoyn askhseis. Efoson ayto ginetai me oloys toys nomimoys oroys den exoyme kanena problhma. Ayto to opoio, epanalambanw, qa prepei na apasxolhsei oloys toys paragontes, einai to oti prepei na yparxoyn kales sxeseis geitonias metajy olwn twn xwrwn. Den qa prepei na anaptyssetai mia politikh ajonwn. Giati antilambaneste oti mporei na dhmioyrgoyntai metwpa filiwn dynamewn, ta opoia, ek twn pragmatwn, odhgoyn sth dhmioyrgia allwn metwpwn, pragma to opoio pisteyoyme oti telikws adynatizei thn prospaqeia gia th dhmioyrgia synqhkwn diarkoys staqerothtas kai asfaleias sthn perioxh.

MIXAHL: Me aformh thn anakoinwsh twn perioxwn sto Aigaio poy h Toyrkia qelei na diejagagei tis askhseis, kaq olh th diarkeia toy Ianoyarioy, oloi mas plhroforhqhkame kapoia asynennohsia GEA-YPA, sxetika me tis ellhnikes apanthseis. H Kybernhsh prokeitai na zhthsei eyqynes apo aytoys toys kratikoys leitoyrgoys, oi opoioi den synennohqhkan ws eprepe gia na yparxei mia safhs kai kata thn Kybernhsh swsth apanthsh stis toyrkikes aitiaseis;

REPPAS: H Kybernhsh pisteyei pws yphrje swsth apanthsh. Kai yphrje swsth apanthsh, entos twn proqesmiwn, poy prepei na ginontai sebastes kai na throyntai. Aplws, epishmanqhkan diafora fainomena, ta opoia ki egw eida stis efhmerides, gia mia oxi ikanopoihtikh synergasia metajy twn dyo yphresiwn. Pisteyoyme oti pantote yparxoyn periqwria beltiwshs sth synergasia twn dhmosiwn yphresiwn, alla, ayto apexei para poly apo to na mporoyme na poyme pws den htan apotelesmatikh kai ikanopoihtikh h antidrash twn ellhnikwn yphresiwn, enanti toy qematos to opoio dhmioyrghqhke. Doqhkan entos twn proqesmiwn oi apanthseis, oi opoies htan analytikes, htan plhreis, htan aytes oi opoies dinontai se aytes tis periptwseis.

MIXAHL: Dhladh, eseis eiste ikanopoihmenoi apo thn apanthsh poy esteile h YPA sthn antistoixh Toyrkikh kai ston ICAO, oti o ellhnikos enaerios xwros problepetai me bash to nomo toy ?31, dhladh, kai oxi to diatagma;

REPPAS: Exei ekdoqei sxetikh anakoinwsh apo to ypoyrgeio Ejwterikwn, apo thn hmera ekeinh, poy leei oti: H diatypwsh den prepei na parermhneyetai, den prepei na dinetai labh se opoiadhpote sxolia. Gnwrizete poly kala oti, otan miloyme gi ayta ta qemata, prepei na eimaste para poly prosektikoi. Bebaiws, kapoios allos paragontas mporei na eixe mia allh diatypwsh, alla, den apotelei h diatypwsh ayth aformh h aitia, wste kapoios, mesw parermhneiwn, na odhgeitai se alloy eidoys symperasmata. De prepei na odhgoymaste se alloy eidoys symperasmata.

MIXAHL: Tote h Kybernhsh ektima oti oi ajiwmatoyxoi ths YPA kai toy GEA ekanan kala th doyleia toys;

REPPAS: Prepei na pw oti doylecan ikanopoihtika. Edwsan tis apanthseis poy eprepe, thn wra poy eprepe. Bebaiws, yparxoyn periqwria beltiwshs kai ayto epidiwkoyme se oloys toys tomeis kai sto sygkekrimeno. An qelate na milhsw apolyta, qa elega bebaiws oti qa mporoysame na energhsoyme pio apotelesmatika kai poly pio syntoma. Alla ayto apexei para poly apo to na poyme oti dhmioyrghqhke blabh se baros twn eqnikwn symferontwn h dhmioyrghqhke problhma epeidh antedrase me ayto ton tropo h kaqe yphresia. Antedrasan ikanopoihtikotata oi yphresies. Ekanan ayto poy eprepe na kanoyn.

TOYMASHS: O Yfypoyrgos Eqnikhs Amynas k. Apostolakhs, omws, exei diaforetikh apoch. Milhse peri laqoys.

REPPAS: Den exei diaforetikh apoch o Yfypoyrgos k. Apostolakhs. Gnwrizete poly kala, oti oles aytes oi kinhseis oi opoies eginan apo tis armodies yphresies, anagnwristhkan apo oloys ws oi endedeigmenes kinhseis.

STAMATOPOYLOS: Kyrie Ypoyrge, as mhn moy apanthsete, egw qa epimeinw. Ektos apo esas, shmera kai allos Ypoyrgos dhlwnei oti oi Ypoyrgoi den sthrizoyn to Shmith, logw kostoys. Mhpws mporeite na moy peite, ti symbainei sth Kybernhsh;

REPPAS: Den einai prepon -epanalambanw- na syzhtoyme sto plaisio ths politikhs enhmerwshs tis proswpikes apoceis twn stelexwn h twn Ypoyrgwn, oi opoies diatypwnontai mesw synenteyjewn. Sas lew, omws, kai pali, oti eimai sth diaqesh sas, an qelete na sas paraxwrhsw synenteyjh. Einai timh moy...

STAMATOPOYLOS: Gia toys Ypoyrgoys poios qa mas apantaei;

REPPAS: ... Mhn prospaqeite, omws, to periexomeno mias synenteyjhs na to kanete antikeimeno syzhthshs sthn politikh enhmerwsh.

STAMATOPOYLOS: Kyrie Ypoyrge, poios qa mas apantaei gia toys Ypoyrgoys;

REPPAS: Egw den qa apantw gia toys Ypoyrgoys. An qelete na sas pw gia to an sthrizoyn oi ypoyrgoi thn Kybernhsh, na qesete to erwthma etsi, kai eyxaristws na sas apanthsw.

STAMATOPOYLOS: Gia ta osa dhlwnoyn oi ypoyrgoi poios qa mas apantaei;

REPPAS: Apantoyn oi idioi oi Ypoyrgoi otan erwtwntai.

STAMATOPOYLOS: Den eiste Kybernhtikos Ekproswpos; Den ekproswpeite olh thn Kybernhsh;

REPPAS: Asfalws. Kai sas lew, loipon, pws einai aytonohto -den prepei na yparxei s' ayto opoiadhpote allh qesh- oti oi ypoyrgoi, poy den einai tipote allo para ta melh ths Kybernhshs, oxi monon sthrizoyn thn Kybernhsh, alla einai h Kybernhsh. Oi Ypoyrgoi einai h Kybernhsh. Den sthrizoyn aplws thn Kybernhsh, einai h idia h Kybernhsh. Prosejte, loipon, th diatypwsh. Den einai etsi opws to qetete eseis. Alla epanalambanw, pws den qewrw poly sobaro na syzhtoyme to ean oi ypoyrgoi sthrizoyn thn Kybernhsh. Qa moy epitrecete na pw...

STAMATOPOYLOS: Den einai sobaro ayto;

REPPAS: Asfalws den einai sobaro, na to syzhtoyme kan. Giati oi Ypoyrgoi einai h Kybernhsh.

KIAOS: O Yfypoyrgos Ergasias kai Koinwnikwn Asfalisewn k. Prwtopapas leei sto synadelfo k. Swko, shmera: " shmantikes apofaseis ths Kybernhsews" -poy shmainei oti anaferetai sth genikoterh kybernhtikh politikh kai oxi mono sthn politikh toy Ypoyrgeioy Ergasias- "poy fysika exoyn kai kostos, sthrizontai apo liga mono kybernhtika stelexh". Ayth th diapistwsh toy kyrioy Prwtopapa, o opoios einai kai melos toy Ektelestikoy Grafeioy toy PASOK, o Prwqypoyrgos -o opoios profanws qa enhmerwqhke- pws thn krinei; Ton kalese na toy pei...

REPPAS: Mia xara einai h diatypwsh. Gnwrizete poly kala, oti pantote yparxei...

KIAOS: Me sygxwreite, ti shmainei "mia xara";

REPPAS: Ma aphxei tis proswpikes apoceis toy synadelfoy, tis opoies diatypwse se mia synenteyjh poy paraxwrhse. Mhn poinikopoihsoyme twra kai thn eleyqeria na ekfrazei o kaqenas thn apoch toy.

KIAOS: Ma den zhtaei kaneis poinikh diwjh. Einai politiko to qema.

REPPAS: Politikh proseggish. Politiko einai to qema. Kai sas lew, loipon...

KIAOS: Sas erwtw, pws ektima o Prwqypoyrgos, tipota perissotero.

REPPAS: O Prwqypoyrgos ektima oloys toys Ypoyrgoys kai toys Yfypoyrgoys, oi opoioi synapartizoyn to kybernhtiko sxhma.

KIAOS: Allo erwtw egw: Pws ektima h Kybernhsh, pws ektimate eseis, pws ektima o Prwqypoyrgos th diapistwsh oti...

REPPAS: Oti oi ypoyrgoi den sthrizoyn apla, alla einai h Kybernhsh.

KIAOS: Sas erwtw eyqews, pws ektima o Prwqypoyrgos, otan ena stelexos toy toy leei oti liga mono stelexh sthrizoyn thn kybernhtikh politikh toy.

REPPAS: Kyrie Kiao, eipa kati sto opoio prepei na meinete. Hmoyn safestatos sthn apanthsh poy edwsa kai eipa oti oi ypoyrgoi einai h Kybernhsh.

SOYGLERHS: Kyrie Ekproswpe, me poio tropo, loipon, apo dw kai pera h Kybernhsh kai o k. Shmiths qa antimetwpisei ayto to fainomeno twn diaforetikwn apocewn kai qesewn olwn twn stelexwn, twn Ypoyrgwn ths Kybernhshs poy diaforopoioyntai se kapoies synenteyjeis toys, oson afora to kybernhtiko ergo mexri shmera.

REPPAS: O k. Prwqypoyrgos exei synexh synergasia oysiastikh, apotelesmatikh kai me ta kybernhtika stelexh kai me toys synergates toy sto Komma kai thn Koinoboyleytikh Omada. Sto plaisio ayths ths synergasias, antallassontai apoceis kai lambanontai oi apofaseis ekeines, oi opoies antapokrinontai sthn anagkh na efarmosoyme thn kybernhtikh politikh poy mas empisteyqhke o ellhnikos laos me thn chfo toy.

KARAGIANNH: Kyrie Ypoyrge, protiqetai o Prwqypoyrgos na qesei qema kommatikhs peiqarxias sthn Koinoboyleytikh Omada toy PASOK gia thn chfish toy forologikoy nomosxedioy;

REPPAS: Opws gia ta ejwterika qemata xrhsimopoieitai h frash "casus belli", etsi kai sta qemata ths politikhs sthn eswterikh zwh ths xwras, arxise na xrhsimopoieitai para poly h frash "kommatikh peiqarxia". Pisteyw oti ola ayta, einai ligo yperbolika. Kapoioi na miloyn gia "casus belli", kapoioi alloi na miloyn gia "kommatikh peiqarxia". Egw pisteyw oti oi boyleytes, oi opoioi exoyn eklegei me thn chfo toy ellhnikoy laoy gia na epitelesoyn sygkekrimeno ergo, exoyn to apaitoymeno aisqhma eyqynhs gia na antapokriqoyn sta kaqhkonta poy toys aneqese o ellhnikos laos. Ayto einai to kyrio qema. Ayto einai poy xarakthrizei th drash enos boyleyth sto Ellhniko Koinoboylio, o opoios, me syneidhsh ths eyqynhs poy exei, proseggizei ta qemata kai prattei analogws. Kai pisteyw oti ayto lynei ola ta problhmata.

KARAGIANNH: Na epimeinw: Qewrei o Prwqypoyrgos, h Kybernhsh to forologiko nomosxedio isajias, isotimhs shmasias me thn chfish toy proypologismoy; Qewrei oti einai meizonos shmasias gia thn kybernhtikh politikh;

REPPAS: Ola ta nomosxedia, apo th stigmh poy katatiqentai kai syzhtoyntai sth Boylh, asfalws exoyn megalh shmasia, giati xwris aytoys toys nomoys den einai dynaton na oloklhrwqei to kybernhtiko ergo. Apo ekei kai pera, epanalambanw pws oi apofaseis lambanontai sto Koinoboylio. Otan ta qemata syzhtoyntai sto Koinoboylio, syzhtoyntai gia na lhfqoyn ekei oi apofaseis. Den yparxoyn apofaseis oi opoies exoyn lhfqei ektos Koinoboylioy. Einai mia diadikasia anoixth, dhmokratikh, h opoia akoloyqeitai pagiws.

KARAKWSTAS: Qa hqela na rwthsw ean o Prwqypoyrgos ejetazei to endexomeno kybernhtikhs anasynqeshs, anasxhmatismoy ths Kybernhshs.

REPPAS: Den yparxei tetoio qema. Kai prepei na pw oti edw kai peripoy ena xrono arxisan na grafontai diafora senaria peri anasxhmatismoy. Qa elega, oti den einai sobaro pia, na syzhtoyme ena qema to opoio ek twn pragmatwn den exei oroys gia syzhthsh. Den jerw poioi fantazontai oti tetoia qemata prepei na mpainoyn se kykloforia. Prepei na sas pw oti den yparxei tetoio qema.

STAMATOPOYLOS: Sas eixa rwthsei polles fores kata th syzhthsh toy proypologismoy sth Boylh, gia to ean qa epiblhqoyn neoi foroi kai moy apanthsate, "perimenete kai qa deite oti den prokeitai". Ti ekane thn Kybernhsh, mesa se deka meres na parei ayta ta metra kai na epibalei dwdeka neoys foroys;

REPPAS: Thn erwthsh ayth thn ypobalate otan syzhtoysame gia ton proypologismo...

STAMATOPOYLOS: Kai eseis moy legate oti den yparxei tetoio qema...

REPPAS: Den yparxei kati allo. Prepei na pw oti h syzhthsh gia to forologiko nomosxedio kai eidikotera h anafora stoys sygkekrimenoys foroys, dhmioyrgei mia entypwsh oti exoyme nees epiloges gia thn epibolh allwn forwn se sxesh me toys foroys gia toys opoioys milhsame kata th syzhthsh gia ton proypologismo. Gnwrizete poly kala, oti to forologiko nomosxedio einai parakoloyqhma toy proypologismoy. Sto plaisio toy proypologismoy lambanontai oi politikes apofaseis, diatypwnontai oi genikes kateyqynseis gia th forologikh politikh, prokeimenoy na gnwrizoyme, kaqws qa syzhtoyme kai qa chfizoyme ton proypologismo, ta anamenomena esoda toy Kratoys. Ayta ta opoia eixame tote ejaggeilei, ayta isxyoyn kai perilambanontai sto sygkekrimeno forologiko nomosxedio. Den yparxei kati diaforetiko. Dinetai, omws, h entypwsh se kapoioys, me ton tropo poy ginetai h syzhthsh, oti einai alloi foroi aytoi gia toys opoioys syzhtoysame otan miloysame gia ton proypologismo kai einai alloi foroi, kainoyrgioi, aytoi stoys opoioys twra anaferomaste kaqws syzhtoyme gia to forologiko nomosxedio. Miloyme gia to idio pragma.

STAMATOPOYLOS: Eixate pei tote oti qa mpoyn aytoi oi foroi;

REPPAS: Eixame anakoinwsei me kaqe leptomereia to synolo twn forwn. Allwste kai sthn eishghsh toy proypologismoy anaferotan leptomerws apo poy qa antlhsoyme ta forologika esoda, prokeimenoy na proxwrhsoyme sthn ektelesh toy proypologismoy me thn pistothta poy epityxame kai ta prohgoymena xronia.

Na eiste kala.

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