Greek Government Press Briefing, 97-02-04

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From: The Hellenic Ministry of Press & Mass Media <http://web.ariadne-t.gr/> - email: pegasus@compulink.gr

YPOYRGEIO TYPOY KAI MESWN MAZIKHS ENHMERWSHS

Aqhna, 4.2.1997

H ENHMERWSH TWN POLITIKWN SYNTAKTWN KAI TWN ANTAPOKRITWN JENOY TYPOY APO TON YPOYRGO TYPOY KAI MESWN MAZIKHS ENHMERWSHS KAI KYBERNHTIKO EKPROSWPO DHMHTRH REPPA

PARIS: Xqes, to Ypoyrgeio Dhmosias Tajhs ejedwse anakoinwsh poy apagoreyei th dieleysh twn trakter apo thn Eqnikh Odo, kaqws kai thn paroysia toys. Qa hqela na rwthsw poia h skopimothta ths diataghs ayths kai poy anaferetai sto ellhniko Syntagma oti apagoreyetai h dieleysh twn trakter stoys eqnikoys dromoys.

REPPAS: Yparxei ayth h apofash h opoia exei ekdoqei kai sas einai gnwsth. To nomiko plaisio ths apofashs sxetizetai me to Proedriko Diatagma 141/91, me arqra toy Nomoy 2094/92 (Kwdikas Odikhs Kykloforias) kai to arqro 171 toy Poinikoy Kwdika. Kai epeidh yparxei mia paranohsh, prepei na tonisw oti oydemia anafora ginetai sto Proedriko Diatagma 794 toy 1970 h toy 1971 (30 Dekembrioy 1970 - 1h Ianoyarioy 1971). Ola ayta ta exw sth diaqesh sas. Kai prepei na pw oti h apofash ayth h opoia ejedoqh, den parapempei kaqoloy -gi' ayto einai atyxhs opoios sysxetismos exei ginei- sto nomoqetiko diatagma toy 1970 - 1971. Makria apo emas opoiadhpote tetoia proqesh. Allwste, to nomoqetiko diatagma den anaferetai se otidhpote exei sxesh me thn eleyqerh kykloforia h thn parakwlysh ths eleyqerhs kykloforias. Enw h apofash poy ekdoqhke xqes afora thn apagoreysh mazikhs kykloforias twn pashs fysewn gewrgikwn elkysthrwn, gia logoys omalhs kykloforias kai asfaleias twn oxhmatwn, pros apofygh diatarajews ths koinwniko-oikonomikhs zwhs ths perioxhs. Epeidh akribws yphrxe anakoinwsh -edw kai arketes hmeres- apo omades agrotwn oti qa proboyn se katalhceis dromwn kai apokleismoys toy eqnikoy kai perifereiakoy diktyoy se diafora shmeia toy, kriqhke skopimh h ajiopoihsh aytoy toy nomikoy plaisioy, to opoio -epanalambanw- einai poly metagenestero kai den exei kamia sxesh me thn epoxh ths xoyntas, prokeimenoy na diasfalisqei h eleyqerh kykloforia sth sygkekrimenh Perioxh.

Epishs, prepei na pw -epeidh to qema einai kai pali sthn epikairothta kai ginetai pollh syzhthsh- oti h Kybernhsh exei anagnwrisei oti yparxoyn problhmata se oloys toys xwroys kai sto gewrgiko xwro. Gi' ayto akribws exei dianysei mia shmantikh apostash, prokeimenoy na plhsiasei tis protaseis tis opoies exoyn diatypwsei oi idioi oi agrotes kai na epidiwjei mazi toys thn aneyresh kalyterwn lysewn. Mporw -epeidh ginetai polys logos gia ta eji shmeia poy exoyn qesei omades agrotwn- na epanalabw, shmeio pros shmeio, oti h Kybernhsh exei kanei gnwstes tis qeseis ths, oi opoies paramenoyn kai shmera safeis.

Sto prwto qema ths apozhmiwshs twn plhgentwn agrotwn gnwrizete poly kala oti me parembash toy Ypoyrgoy Gewrgias sthn Epitroph, egine dynaton na ejasfalisqei h metafora porwn, enos shmantikoy kondylioy, peripoy 20 disekatommyriwn draxmwn, apo Diarqrwtika Programmata toy Koinotikoy Plaisioy Sthrijhs, se dapanes oi opoies qa xrhsimopoihqoyn gia na bohqhqoyn plhgentes agrotes stis sygkekrimenes perioxes. Ayto, loipon, einai to prwto "nai" ths Kybernhshs sto prwto aithma apo ta eji, ta opoia exoyn qesei oi agrotes.

To deytero qema to opoio teqhke afora th ryqmish twn xrewn. H Kybernhsh apanthse "nai" kai s' ayto. Ryqmizontai xreh xwris tokoys yperhmerias, me dieth periodo xaritos, xreh ta opoia qa ejoflhqoyn se oktw xronia apo toys agrotes. Exoyme akoma ena "nai", loipon, apo thn Kybernhsh, sto shmeio ayto, to opoio exoyn qesei oi agrotes.

Yparxei ena trito qema poy afora tis eisodhmatikes enisxyseis, opoy qeloyn mia kalych toy eisodhmatos toys oi ergazomenoi ston prwtogenh tomea, idiaitera oi bambakokallierghtes, wste na exoyn mia timh 90.000 draxmwn kata stremma. Einai kati to opoio den mporei na brei symfwnh thn Ellhnikh Kybernhsh. Allwste, antikeitai stoys koinotikoys kanonismoys, den to epitrepei h Eyrwpadkh Enwsh, na eggyhqoyme to eisodhma opoioydhpote ergazomenoy sthn eleyqerh agora. Opws, me thn eyreia ennoia, mporoyme na poyme oti tetoioi einai kai oi Ellhnes gewrgoi. Edw, loipon, yparxei shmeio diafwnias, gia logoys oi opoioi einai peran opoiasdhpote dikhs mas epiqymias h epiloghs.

To tetarto shmeio afora sth meiwsh toy kostoys paragwghs. H Kybernhsh blepei poly qetika thn opoia sxetikh protash exei diatypwqei gia to qema ayto. Exoyme pei, kat' epanalhch, oti prepei na oloklhrwqei h diadikasia ths syntajhs toy Mhtrwoy Agrotwn, wste ta opoia metra -eynodka gia toys agrotes- lhfqoyn, qa prepei na aforoyn kyriolektika kai mono toys agrotes, wste na mhn epwfeleitai apo th lhch aytwn twn metrwn alloi polites poy den exoyn kamia sxesh me th gewrgikh paragwgh. Kai s'ayto to shmeio, loipon, eimaste se mia prooptikh symfwnias. Den yparxei diafwnia.

Yparxei, epishs, ena shmeio poy afora thn epistrofh toy Foroy Prostiqemenhs Ajias (FPA). Exoyme pei oti gia to 1996 oi foroi poy exoyn parakrathqei qa epistrafoyn. To 1994 kai 1995 sxetikes dhlwseis den exoyn kanei oi agrotes. Gia ta posa ths prohgoymenhs periodoy yparxei h paragrafh. Exoyme milhsei gi' ayta. Ara, kai sto shmeio ayto, to pempto, mporoyme na poyme oti yparxei se shmantiko baqmo mia symfwnia. An oxi 100%, toylaxiston etsi opws qetoyn to qema oi agrotes, se ena pososto, sth mesh toylaxiston, synantietai h Kybernhsh me thn protash twn agrotwn.

Yparxei, telos, to ekto shmeio ths meiwshs toy FPA, apo to syntelesth 18% sto 8%, poy qetoyn oi omades twn agrotwn. Sto shmeio ayto, epeidh akribws, den afora eqnikh epilogh, alla desmeysh thn opoia exoyme analabei -einai koinotikh epilogh- den einai dynaton na symfwnhsoyme, katw apo ta shmerina dedomena.

Ayta einai ta eji shmeia sta opoia kat' epanalhch anaferontai oi ypo kinhtopoihsh agrotes. H Kybernhsh, se kapoia apo ayta exei apanthsei qetika. Ylopoiei metra politikhs, prokeimenoy na antapokriqei se ayth th qetikh apanthsh thn opoia exei dwsei. Yparxoyn shmeia sta opoia den einai dynaton na symfwnhsoyme, epeidh akribws yparxoyn oi koinotikoi periorismoi kai yparxoyn kai shmeia ta opoia qa antimetwpisoyme sto mellon, opws einai h meiwsh toy kostoys paragwghs, ef' oson yparjei analogh proodos kai sth syntajh toy Mhtrwoy Agrotwn. Nomizw oti ayto deixnei thn kalh diaqesh ths Kybernhshs na syzhthsei thn oysia twn problhmatwn ta opoia apasxoloyn ton prwtogenh tomea. Kai gi' ayto zhtoyme oloi oi Ellhnes, idiaitera oi agrotes, ayth thn periodo, na deijoyn mia analogh proseggish, ena analogo pneyma antistoixo me ayto poy deixnei h Kybernhsh, prokeimenoy na antimetwpisoyme ta problhmata sthn oysia toys. Ayto telika exei th megalh shmasia kai oxi h dhmioyrgia proskairwn entypwsewn, oi opoies polles fores apoblepoyn sto na dhmioyrghqoyn ofelh -kai politika- enw, oysiastika dynamitizoyn thn prooptikh ths xwras. Qa prepei na doyme ta pragmata apo th skopia toy mellontos. Na antimetwpisoyme ta problhmata twn Ellhnwn gewrgwn, syneidhtopoiwntas oti exoyme eiselqei edw kai poly kairo- se mia periodo opoy ta stoixeia ths antagwnistikothtas qa einai entona kai gia toys Ellhnes gewrgoys. Apo koinoy, loipon, qa skycoyme s' ayta ta problhmata gia na broyme tis kalyteres lyseis. Den einai periodos gia antidikies. Nomizw, loipon, oti to pneyma poy exei h Kybernhsh na syzhthsei me toys agrotes exei jekinhsei ws qesmikos dialogos, afoy hdh to Symboylio Agrotikhs Politikhs me tis diadikasies toy exei dwsei ena deigma, ena shma gia to pws mporei na ejelixqei aytos o dialogos. S' ayth th diadikasia prepei na meinoyme oloi.

STAMATOPOYLOS: Ektos apo thn periodo ths xoyntas exei apagoreyqei allh fora se aytokinhto, se trakter, se podhlato na kykloforei sthn eqnikh odo; Egw den qymamai. Eseis qymosaste;

REPPAS: Einai para polles oi fores poy oi kinhtopoihseis poy ginontai sthn Ellada antimetwpizontai me diaforoys tropoys. Mporw na qymhqw para polles fores poy eixame biaia epeisodia, symplokes kai traymatismoys. Emeis ajiopoioyme to qesmiko kai nomiko plaisio to opoio yparxei, prokeimenoy na apofygoyme ayth thn ojythta, ayth thn entash. Gia na apofygoyme to xeirotero, pisteyoyme pws exei qesh mia tetoia apofash, h opoia epiballei kapoioys periorismoys, -proskaira, pantws, epiballontai oi periorismoi aytoi - prokeimenoy na diathrhsoyme omalh th zwh sthn perioxh kai genikotera sth xwra.

STAMATOPOYLOS: Egw sas rwthsa ean exei yparjei allh fora tetoia apofash.

REPPAS: Kai egw sas apanthsa oti qeloyme na apofygoyme tis sygkroyseis. Yparxei nomiko plaisio to opoio xrhsimopoieitai. Allwste, otan yparxoyn nomoi, gi' ayto to opoio legetai syxna, peri ths anagkhs oxi na dhmioyrghsoyme neo plaisio h na dhmioyrghsoyme neoys nomoys, alla na efarmosoyme toys yparxontes, edw yparxei hdh mia apanthsh. Efarmozoyme nomoys oi opoioi yparxoyn. Giati ayto prepei na kanei entypwsh kai den kanei entypwsh to oti yparxoyn nomoi oi opoioi den efarmozontai; Ftasame sto shmeio na kanei entypwsh to oti yparxoyn nomoi oi opoioi efarmozontai kai prepei na apologeitai h Kybernhsh giati efarmozei nomoys poy yparxoyn. Ekei ftasame!

SOYGLERHS: Kyrie Ekproswpe, qelw na rwthsw ean ayth thn apofash - apagoreysh qa th xrhsimopoihsei h Kybernhsh kai sto mellon, kai se alla epipeda, an exoyme alles apergies.

REPPAS: H Kybernhsh einai ypeyqynh Kybernhsh. Qelei dialogo me oloys toys Ellhnes polites, me oles tis koinwnikes omades kai idiaiterws me toys agrotes, poy apoteloyn ena megalo meros toy ellhnikoy plhqysmoy, giati, se teleytaia analysh, oloi mas, me ton alfa h bhta tropo, exoyme rizes ston agrotiko xwro. Qeloyme, loipon, ayth thn epikoinwnia kai ayth th symporeysh me toys Ellhnes gewrgoys. Kai lambanoyme ola ekeina ta metra, wste na ejantlhqei, mesa apo enan kalopisto dialogo, h dynatothta na anazhthsoyme kai na broyme tis kalyteres lyseis. Alla, sas eipa kai epanalambanw oti pera apo thn Kybernhsh prepei na ergazontai kai oi alles pleyres. As afhsoyme, loipon, kata meros opoiesdhpote epiloges gia kinhtopoihseis poy odhgoyn se apokleismoys dromwn, se talaipwria thn oikonomia ths xwras kai na anazhthsoyme th lysh mesa apo mia koinh prospaqeia, mesa apo to dialogo. Ayto einai poy leei h Kybernhsh. H Kybernhsh den exei kamia antiqesh kai kanenan antilogo me toys ergazomenoys oi opoioi diekdikoyn th lysh twn problhmatwn poy toys apasxoloyn. H Kybernhsh, omws, pisteyei oti ola ayta prepei na ginoyn me enan tetoio tropo, wste na mh diarrhgnyetai ena plaisio sxesewn epikoinwnias kai dialogoy, to opoio prepei na yparxei kai na to diafylattoyme ws korh ofqalmoy, gia to symferon ths xwras kai toy ellhnikoy laoy.

SOYGLERHS: Diapistwse se ayth th fash h Kybernhsh oti yphrxe kapoios idiaiteros kindynos kai phre ayth thn apofash - apagoreysh;

REPPAS: Exoyme thn empeiria twn kinhtopoihsewn thn prohgoymenh periodo, to Noembrio kai to Dekembrio. Epeidh akribws eixan ejaggelqei analoges kinhtopoihseis, h Kybernhsh lambanei kapoia metra wste na diasfalisei thn omalh leitoyrgia sthn koinwniko-oikonomikh zwh sthn perioxh.

ZERBONIKOLAKHS: Prin apo dyo-treis hmeres o Ypoyrgos Eqnikhs Oikonomias eipe oti h oikonomia den talaipwrhqhke apo ayto to kyma twn agrotikwn kinhtopoihsewn...

REPPAS: Ayto aforoyse akribws th dhmosia oikonomia. Alla, yparxoyn symferonta idiwtwn h Ellhnwn ta opoia exoyn qigei. Den katalabainw giati kanete ayton to sysxetismo. An krinoyme apo toys deiktes, pws ejelissetai h ellhnikh oikonomia, prepei na poyme oti kai emeis exoyme entypwsiasqei apo ayth thn ejelijh. Einai poly qetikoi oi deiktes. Kai ayto exei eipwqei apo polles pleyres, allwste. Oti h apoklimakwsh toy plhqwrismoy, fer' eipein, einai poly taxyterh apo o,ti anamenotan. Den shmainei omws oti den yparxoyn Ellhnes polites h ergazomenoi allwn kathgoriwn, twn opoiwn ta symferonta exoyn qigei. Exoyn qigei asfalws symferonta kai ayto den mporoyme na to paragnwrizoyme.

KIAOS: Epeidh h sxetikh diatajh toy Syntagmatos thn opoia epikaleitai h apofash toy astynomikoy dieyqynth Magnhsias, dhladh to arqro 11, katalhgei "opws o nomos orizei". Dhladh, efoson exoyme diatarajh k.lp. Se poio nomo akribws anaferetai h apofash toy dieyqynth ths astynomikhs dieyqynshs;

REPPAS: Exete thn apofash, ws exei akribws, opoy anaferetai, poia einai ta arqra, oi nomoi, ta proedrika diatagmata, sto nomiko plaisio sto synolo toy, to opoio lambanetai ypoch prokeimenoy na ekdoqei ayth h apofash; Thn exw sth diaqesh sas kai mporw na sas thn egxeirhsw, wste na thn gnwrisete kai eseis.

KIAOS: Eseis anaferqhkate prohgoymenws sto Proedriko Diatagma toy '91 kai ston Kwdika Odikhs Kykloforias. O nomos o opoios kata to Syntagma leei: ws nomos orizei apagoreyoyme kai kanoyme kai ranoyme. O nomos o sygkekrimenos poios einai;

REPPAS: Kyrie Kiao, kai eseis eiste safhs kai egw eimai safhs. Yparxoyn, loipon, kai ston Kwdika Odikhs Kykloforias kai sta Proedrika Diatagmata, poly sygkekrimenes diatajeis kai prepei na sas pw oti exoyn thn idia nomikh ajia kai isxy. Den einai ypodeestera etsi ,wste, na prepei na ta agnooyme. Asfalws, den ta agnooyme. Einai stoixeia toy nomikoy plaisioy, ta opoia diepoyn th leitoyrgia, oikonomikwn drasthriothtwn kai allwn sth xwra. Den nomizw oti ayto einai kati, to opoio prepei na mas apasxolhsei parapera. Einai poly sygkekrimena ta arqra ta opoia epikaloymeqa, prokeimenoy na ekdoqei ayth h apofash. Einai poly safes ayto.

KIAOS: Qelw na moy peite sygkekrimena o nomos, o opoios..........

REPPAS: To Syntagma, k. Kiao, gnwrizete poly kala oti exei ena pneyma. Sto pneyma ayto, loipon, poy diepei oles tis leitoyrgies toy kratoys ekdidontai diaforoi nomoi, proedrika diatagmata, kwdikes k.lp. To nomiko plaisio, loipon, anaferetai sth sygkekrimenh apofash kai anaferetai me leptomereies, wste na mhn yparxei periqwrio paranohsews.

MARDAS: Kyrie Ypoyrge, exei ekdoqei ektelestikos nomos, brisketai se isxy ektelestikos nomos, se efarmogh ayths ths syntagmatikhs diatajhs toy arqroy 11 poy epikaleitai h astynomia;

REPPAS: To arqro 11 to epikaleitai h apofash ayth, epeidh akribws apodidei ena pneyma, to opoio prepei na yparxei stis dhmosies leitoyrgies, apo ekei kai pera yparxoyn nomoi -epanalambanw kai pali- yparxoyn sygkekrimena arqra, ta opoia anaferontai sthn apofash. Ayto prepei na to exete ypoch sas.

KARELIAS: H Kybernhsh eixe kanei safh thn proqesh ths na mhn kleisoyn oi dromoi, to eixe diakhryjei, o teleytaios kratikos ypallhlos mexri ton Prwqypoyrgo. Epishs, einai emfanhs h astynomikh paroysia sthn perioxh. Oloi jeroyn ti qelei h Kybernhsh. Poios logos epebale thn ekdosh aytwn twn astynomikwn apofasewn, giati prokalei ontws syneirmoys.kai paei se alles epoxes. Yparxei dikaiologhtikos logos;

REPPAS: Oi sysxetismoi aytoi einai atyxeis. To epishmana sthn arxh kai to epanalambanw. Aytoi oi sysxetismoi adikoyn thn Kybernhsh, adikoyn kai th koinh nohmosynh. Giati den ginetai kamia anafora sto nomoqetiko diatagma ths "xoyntas". Kai kakws anaferetai se polla entypa shmera mia tetoia sxesh, h opoia ek twn pragmatwn den yparxei. Giati to nomoqetiko diatagma -epanalambanw- den anaferetai kaqoloy se otidhpote exei sxesh me thn kykloforia oxhmatwn, elkysthrwn en prokeimenw. Kai deyteron, peran aytoy, h diatajh ayth den ekdoqhke twra. Den diatypwqhke twra enas neos nomos. Den ekdoqhke twra ena proedriko diatagma gia na to xrhsimopoihsoyme me aformh ta fainomena ths sygkyrias. Yparxei to nomiko plaisio, edw kai para poly kairo. Mas kathgoreite, loipon, giati ayto, enw htan kata kapoioys koimwmeno, to energopoioyme kai to xrhsimopoioyme. Einai ena akomh stoixeio, sto plaisio twn metrwn ta opoia exoyn labei oi diaforoi foreis, prokeimenoy na antimetwpisoyme mia ejaggelia h opoia yphrxe gia apokleismoys kai katalhceis diktywn-dromwn kai epeidh akribws pisteyoyme oti ayto eprepe na apofeyxqei, me kaqe meso, eprepe na to antimetwpisoyme kai metajy twn allwn kriqhke oti enas xrhsimos, apotelesmatikos, prosforos tropos einai kai aytos. Einai mia epilogh.

KARELIAS: Kai politika einai prosforos tropos;

REPPAS: Asfalws einai kai politika prosforos giati qa apofygoyme, an ola ejelixqoyn omala kai synnoma, ta xeirotera. Ki ayto, nomizw einai xreos ths Kybernhshs kai ths politeias. Na apofygoyme thn antiparaqesh, na apofygoyme ta epeisodia, na apofygoyme th bia. Kaneis den th qelei. Giati poly "aimatologia" ginetai teleytaia kai nomizw oti ayto einai oxi apla apeyktaio, einai aparadekto, einai apokroystiko, einai adiko. Prepei na to antimetwpizoyme sth gennhsh toy.

PARIS: Hqela na rwthsw ean h Kybernhsh diapistwnei fainomena anajiopistias stoys kolpoys ths, oson afora to qema twn Ellhnwn gewrgwn. To rwtw ayto giati p.x. to Mhtrwo Agrotwn, to opoio sth synexeia to dexeste, den exei proxwrhsei kaqoloy. To 1995, otan oi agrotes ekanan tote kinhtopoihseis, to Mhtrwo Agrotwn htan anamesa sta aithmata toys. To diapragmateyeste; Dioti ean den to diapragmateyeste kai to exete dexqei tote giati den exei proxwrhsei tosa xronia;

REPPAS: H qespish kai syntajh toy Mhtrwoy Agrotwn, kyrie Pari, einai prwtoboylia ths Kybernhshs toy PASOK. Einai ena ergo to opoio exei analabei h PASEGES. H Kybernhsh kai to Ypoyrgeio Gewrgias dinei thn opoiadhpote yposthrijh, ylikh kai allh, prokeimenoy to ergo ayto na oloklhrwqei to syntomotero dynato. Alla, den mporei h Kybernhsh na apologeitai gia thn proodo h thn kaqysterhsh, an qelete na to doyme apo allh skopia, poy parathreitai sth syntajh toy Mhtrwoy Agrotwn. H PASEGES exei epifortisqei me ayto to ergo kai eyxomaste, parexoyme kaqe yposthrijh poy mas zhteitai na oloklhrwqei to ergo ayto, to syntomotero dynato.

MIXAHL: Qelw na sas rwthsw para poly apla giati to Ypoyrgeio Gewrgias, ara h ypeyqynh Kybernhsh, den analambanei h idia th syntajh toy Mhtrwoy Agrotwn. Yparxoyn kataggelies kai tis jerete oti yparxoyn skopimothtes, poy den qelei na tis analabei to Ypoyrgeio Gewrgias. Opws, polloi idiokthtes agrotikhs ghs poy einai stelexh kommatwn, paragontes, oikonomikoi paragontes ths xwras k.lp. Kai h dia ths PASEGES antimetwpish toy problhmatos kwlysiergei kai ara ligo-poly ...

REPPAS: Ayta ta problhmata ta opoia exoyn sxesh me th grafeiokratia h toys ryqmoys poy parathroyntai sth leitoyrgia ths Dhmosias Dioikhshs h tis antiparaqeseis oi opoies prokyptoyn, epeidh kapoies yphresies qeloyn ena orismeno antikeimeno na to exoyn sth dikh toys armodiothta kai na mhn to ekxwroyn se enan allo forea, einai fainomena yparkta. Prepei na to paradexqoyme. Alla, antilambanomai, kai apo th dikh sas erwthsh kai apo to pneyma poy prokyptei mesa apo th syzhthsh poy kanoyme, oti qewroyme oloi ws na einai kati para poly shmantiko, mia qesmikh tomh poly shmantikh, to Mhtrwo Agrotwn. H Kybernhsh h opoia eixe thn empneysh kai exei eisagei ayto to qesmo -epanalambanw- parakoloyqei apo konta to pws ejelissetai h syntajh toy. Exoyme kaqe endiaferon, afoy diko mas "paidi" einai, diko mas dhmioyrghma einai, na syntelesoyme wste na oloklhrwqei ayth h diadikasia, oso ginetai pio grhgora. Ayto qa kanoyme. Ayta ta problhmata asfalws yparxoyn. Alla, den einai mono gi ayto to qema kai den einai mono s' ayto to xwro. Einai problhmata ta opoia exoyn sxesh me ton tropo poy leitoyrgei h Dioikhsh sthn Ellada. Kai nomizw oti oi Ellhnes gewrgoi, epeidh ayto akribws einai mia dikh toys nikh, qa prepei na to perifroyrhsoyn kai na symbaloyn kai ekeinoi, jepernwntas tis opoies metajy toys diaforopoihseis,wste na oloklhrwqei to syntomotero ayth h diadikasia.

DHMOSIOGRAFOS: Pote qa jekinhsei;

REPPAS: Exei jekinhsei.

STAMATOPOYLOS: Kyrie Ypoyrge, epeidh sthn Aqhna, kaqhmerina, ergazomenoi kleinoyn thn Akadhmias, thn Panepisthmioy, th Stadioy kai th B. Sofias, mhpws h Kybernhsh skeftetai na apagoreysei thn kykloforia twn politwn stoys dromoys aytoys;

REPPAS: H Kybernhsh kai to politiko komma poy th sthrizei, k. Stamatopoyle, einai kat' ejoxhn oi foreis, oi opoioi sebontai ta dhmokratika dikaiwmata twn politwn. Kai thn askhsh toys thn antilambanomaste emeis, ws askhsh sth dhmokratia. Pisteyoyme pws otidhpote ginetai mesa se paradekta kai synnoma plaisia einai apodekto. Oydeis antilogos, oydeis mporei na exei opoiadhpote amfisbhthsh, sto dikaiwma mia tetoias kinhtopoihshs. Alla -epanalambanw kai pali-.....

STAMATOPOYLOS: Oi agrotes den.....

REPPAS: Oi agrotes den ekanan ta syllalhthria toys, den ekanan tis sygkentrwseis toys; Toys empodise kaneis; Den ekanan tis diadhlwseis toys; Ayto to opoio qeloyme na prolaboyme einai na stamathsei to egxeirhma toy apokleismoy twn dromwn. As bgoyn oi agrotes na poyn oti "emeis qa kateboyme sthn Aqhna na kanoyme mia diadhlwsh, alla einai bebaion oti den qa apokleisoyme dromoys. Einai ejw apo tis diaqeseis mas. Den exoyme proqesh na paralysoyme th xwra". An kai akoyw se diafora Mesa h diabazw ekfraseis toy typoy "parelyse h xwra", enw oloi gnwrizoyme oti den exoyme kamia paralysh ths xwras. Bebaiws exoyme problhmata se polloys tomeis, alla doja tw Qew, h dhmosia zwh -qa elega- den exei paralysei. Dinetai mia eikona pws h Ellada exei balei ena loyketo. Egw jerw, oti para ta problhmata poy yparxoyn, den yparxei paralysh. Einai mia yperbolh. Kai jerete otan polles fores, oi dhmosiografoi xrhsimopoioyn tetoies akraies lejeis, prokeimenoy na prosdiorisoyn mia katastash, eqizetai to koino kai kapoia stigmh akoyme oloi "parelyse h xwra". Kai oloi kanoyme tis synallages mas sthn kaqhmerinh mas zwh kanonika opws oles tis alles hmeres. Miloyme gia paralysh kai h zwh mas synexizetai me ton idio ryqmo poy exei oles tis alles hmeres toy xronoy. Yparxei mia antifash. Nomizw oti ayto to qema ekleise, dwsame tis apanthseis. Sas eipa kai pali oti yparxoyn plaisia mesa sta opoia prepei na kinoymaste oloi.

MOYRTZHS: To metro ths apagoreyshs ths dieleyshs twn trakter mexri pote isxyei;

REPPAS: Apo tote poy qa dhmosieyqei h apofash. Kai qa ekdoqei nea apofash poy qa thn anakalei. Den exei sygkekrimenh lhjh. H apofash ekdidetai gia na isxysei me th dhmosieysh ths. Kai qa yparjei nea apofash poy qa thn anakalei.

SOYGLERHS: Kyrie Ekproswpe, apo th shmerinh telikh qesh ths Kybernhshs -an katalaba kala- prokyptei oti h Kybernhsh exei ejantlhsei ta periqwria dialogoy se koinwniko, politiko, oikonomiko epipedo. Leei oti kakws oi agrotes katebainoyn se apergia, se ayth th morfh kinhtopoihsewn poy kanoyn;

REPPAS: Exoyme apanthsei kat' epanalhch, se ayto to erwthma. Ayths ths morfhs kai aytoy toy tropoy kinhtopoihsh, apo emas apodokimazetai. Ton kataggelloyme ws enan tropo poy jeperna ta paradekta oria, odhgei se peripeteia thn ellhnikh koinwnia kai pisteyoyme oti den exei th synainesh, th symfwnia twn allwn Ellhnwn politwn. S' ayto symfwnoyme oloi. Oloi, pisteyw, symfwnoyme oti aytos o tropos kinhtopoihsewn den einai endedeigmenos gia na probalei kapoios ta aithmata toy kai na yperaspisqei th lysh twn problhmatwn.

KIAOS: Ennoeite oti symfwneite oloi sthn Kybernhsh. Etsi;

REPPAS: Egw pisteyw -eipa "pisteyw"- oti symfwnoyn oloi oi Ellhnes polites. Oti aytos o tropos, oi apokleismoi twn dromwn, den einai o endedeigmenos. An eseis pisteyete oti kapoioi qewroyn toys apokleismoys twn dromwn, ws ton pleon katallhlo tropo gia na probaloyn ta aithmata toys oi gewrgoi....

GARGALAKOS: Apotelesmatiko isws...

DHMOSIOGRAFOS: Me aformh thn teleytaia topoqethsh sas gia to posoi Ellhnes symfwnoyn h oxi sth sygkekrimenh kinhtopoihsh...

REPPAS: ...malista, yparxoyn aytes oi metrhseis kai oi ereynes. To gnwrizw.

DHMOSIOGRAFOS: Yparxei mia ereyna h opoia ferei thn pleiochfia twn Ellhnwn politwn, twn ergazomenwn toylaxiston, na xarakthrizoyn arnhtikh th stash ths Kybernhshs apenanti stoys agrotes kai proswpika toy Prwqypoyrgoy. Exete kapoio sxolio gi ayto;

REPPAS: Einai ena geniko sxolio poy pantote kanw stis periptwseis poy tiqentai erwthmata, ta opoia aforoyn metrhseis h dhmoskophseis h ereynes ths koinhs gnwmhs. Ayto poy exoyme na poyme einai oti h Kybernhsh exei mia politikh h opoia den epidiwkei na thn emfanizei ws eyxaristh h filoladkh. Alla, na apodeijei sthn prajh, otan erqei to plhrwma toy xronoy, oti h Kybernhsh antapokriqhke sthn entolh toy ellhnikoy laoy, yperaspise ta oikonomika kai koinwnika symferonta ths xwras kai protaje thn eyqynh na odhghsei thn Ellada se mia antagwnistikh qesh se sxesh me tis alles xwres ths E.E. wste na mporoyme apo ena kalytero shmeio na antimetwpizoyme tis proklhseis toy mellontos. Ayth einai h prospaqeia poy kanei h Kybernhsh. Ayto einai to qema sto opoio emeis qa meinoyme ametakinhtoi giati pisteyoyme oti ayto apotelei th xrysh proteraiothta gia th xwra mas.

KARELIAS: Einai akribes ayto poy grafetai stis shmerines efhmerides, oti o Prwqypoyrgos, sth synedriash toy Ektelestikoy grafeioy eipe oti o xarakthrismos "eterobarhs" poy xrhsimopoihse o k. Pagkalos gia na xarakthrisei thn endiamesh symfwnia den htan epityxhs;

REPPAS: Ayta einai qemata enos kommatikoy organoy, k. Karelia. Den qa ta sxoliasoyme edw. Nomizw oti gia to qema ayto syzhthsame gia poly wra xqes, exoyme dwsei tis apanthseis sta erwthmata poy qesate, ayto to qema exei kleisei. Allwste qa yparxei syzhthsh sth Boylh thn erxomenh Paraskeyh me aformh epikairh erwthsh poy exei kataqesei o k. Ebert. Qa apanthsei o k. Shmiths. Ayto to qema emeis, syzhtwntas edw, sto plaisio ths politikhs enhmerwshs poy parexoyme to syzhthsame. Qa epanelqei to qema thn Paraskeyh sth Boylh, qa syzhthqei ki ekei, qa exete ki apo ekei ereqismata gia na bgalete ta symperasmata sas.

KARELIAS: Den jerete h den qelete na mas peite an to eipe o Prwqypoyrgos;

REPPAS: Oxi, den einai qema na sxoliasoyme edw to qema twn synedriasewn toy Ektelestikoy Grafeioy.

KARELIAS: Dhladh mas parapempete sto Grafeio Typoy toy PASOK;

REPPAS: Den sas parapempw, den exw logo na sas parapemcw kapoy. Eseis an qelete na anazhthsete kai na breite kati sygkekrimeno gnwrizete poies einai oi phges stis opoies prepei na anatrejete. Den sas parapempw egw. Gnwrizete poly kala oti edw den syzhtoyme qemata poy aforoyn eswterikes kommatikes diadikasies. Jerete, den exoyme taytish kommatos-kratoys h kybernhshs-kratoys. Allo koinwnia, allo kratos, allo Kybernhsh, allo komma. Einai tessera diaforetika pragmata.

KIAOS: Einai "eterobarhs" gia thn Ellada h symfwnia;

REPPAS: Eipa kai pali oti egw s' ayto to paixnidi twn lejewn den qa mpw. Edwsa leptomereiakws apanthseis xqes gi' ayto to qema. Eseis qelete na mpw ston peirasmo kai n' apanthsw paizontas me tis lejeis. Egw den qelw na paijw me tis lejeis. Meiname sthn oysia. Kai sthn oysia xqes kaname mia syzhthsh poly-poly ejeidikeymenh. Kai nomizw oti exete apanthseis gia ola ta qemata ta opoia sas apasxoloyn.

ZERBONIKOLAKHS: Ayth h koybenta mporei na egine s' ena kommatiko organo alla den afora ta eswterika toy PASOK. Afora th xwra, afora ta eqnika qemata.

REPPAS: Mporw loipon, an einai toso megalo to endiaferon, na sas pw oti ayta ta opoia eipame xqes edw einai oi qeseis ths Kybernhshs, opws tis aneptyja kai tis ejefrasa kai aphxoyn kai to pneyma ths syzhthshs poy egine sto Ektelestiko Grafeio. Ara, loipon, h syzhthsh poy egine edw kai sthn opoia labate meros ki eseis einai sto pneyma ths syzhthshs poy egine sto Ektelestiko Grafeio.

STAMATOPOYLOS: H episkech toy k. Gewrgioy Papandreoy ston Prwqypoyrgo exei sxesh kai me tis armodiothtes, tis synarmodiothtes toy, sto Ypoyrgeio Ejwterikwn;

REPPAS: Oxi k. Stamatopoyle. Einai sto pneyma twn synergasiwn poy exei o Prwqypoyrgos me toys ypoyrgoys. Eide xqes ton k. Kastanidh, egine (synanthsh) me ton k. Papantwnioy, me ton k. Papandreoy... Eipa oti oi synergasies toy Prwqypoyrgoy me toys ypoyrgoys den apoteloyn pleon eidhsh.

STAMATOPOYLOS: To zhthse o k. Papandreoy na paei h ton kalese o Prwqypoyrgos;

REPPAS: Ma, yparxei taktikh epikoinwnia. Einai dynaton na bgaloyme politiko symperasma analoga me to poios einai aytos poy eixe thn prwtoboylia gia th synanthsh;

STAMATOPOYLOS: Exei poly megalh shmasia.

REPPAS: Ti einai ayto to opoion dieykolynei na bgalete to symperasma poy qelete; Na doqei etsi. Eseis ti qelete na exei ginei;

STAMATOPOYLOS: Egw;

REPPAS: Gia na sas dieykolynw! Dhladh an prepei na bgalete to symperasma oti yparxei problhma, na sas pw oti to zhthse poios; Loipon. Den yparxei kanena qema. Apanthsa gi' ayto xqes. Einai anypostata ta sxetika dhmosieymata an kai epanerxontai kapoioi shmera. Pisteyw oti ola ayta einai sto xwro toy geloioy pia. Exoyme megala problhmata kai prepei na deijoyme sobarothta gia na ta antimetwpisoyme. Mhn paizoyme.

KWSTANTINIDHS: Kyrie Ypoyrge, tis teleytaies hmeres yparxei mia entonh kinhtikothta gyrw apo to qema ths Kyproy kai to Aigaio kai ta Ellhnotoyrkika. Kai apo th Megalh Bretania kai apo tis Hnwmenes Politeies. Pisteyete, epeidh grafetai kata koron aytes tis meres, oti odhgoymeqa s' ena paketo lysews twn qematwn Aigaioy kai Kypriakoy;

REPPAS: Ayto k. Kwnstantinidh den mporoyme na to sxoliasoyme, giati den exei ekdhlwqei kapoia prwtoboylia h opoia na symperilambanei ws paketo ta qemata poy aforoyn to Aigaio kai tis Ellhnotoyrkikes sxeseis af' enos h to Kypriako af' eteroy. H qesh mas, pantws, einai safhs kai thn epanalambanw: einai allo to qema twn Ellhnotoyrkikwn sxesewn kai twn problhmatwn poy dhmioyrgoyn oi politikes prwtoboylies poy pairnei h Toyrkia sto Aigaio kai allo qema einai to Kypriako problhma. Den einai dynaton na antimetwpisqoyn katw ap' to idio prisma. To qema twn Ellhnotoyrkikwn sxesewn einai problhma to opoio dhmioyrgeitai logw ths proklhtikhs kai epiqetikhs symperiforas ths Toyrkias, to Kypriako problhma einai problhma Katoxhs. Kai meta apo 22 xronia anazhtei epiteloys th lysh toy. Einai dyo diaforetika qemata, kai me diaforetiko tropo ta proseggizoyme kai epidiwkoyme th lysh toys. Den dexomaste oti mporoyn na antimetwpisqoyn ws merh enos paketoy.

MARDAS: Kyrie Ypoyrge, xqes sto "Eqnos" dhmosieyqhke ena reportaz toy synadelfoy Giannh Rodopoyloy gyrw apo ta Imia. O idios grafei oti toy apagoreyqhke apo to Limenarxeio Kalymnoy na anebei sth braxonhsida kai na kanei mia perigrafh. Qelw na rwthsw an apagoreyetai gia toys dhmosiografoys h anodos stis braxonhsides, gia n' askhsoyn to dhmosiografiko toys leitoyrghma.

REPPAS: Kyrie Marda, gnwrizete oti -kai me esas kyriws- perysi eixame kanei entonoys dialogoys gyrw ap' ayto to qema. Se opoiodhpote shmeio ths ellhnikhs epikrateias einai eleyqerh h kykloforia h h metakinhsh. Den einai dynaton na yparxoyn periorismoi. Ayto to opoio omws exei shmasia, epanalambanw, einai na deijoyme mia analogh prosoxh. Mia eyaisqhsia sto qema. Giati apo to 1947 mexri perysi, to 1996, perasan kapoies dekades xronia kai jafnika oloi anakalycame mia braxonhsida. Kai qeloyme na epideijoyme ton patriwtismo mas kata tetoion tropo o opoios den apodeiknyetai, dhqen, alliws, para mono an episkefqoyme th braxonhsida. Nomizw, loipon, oti ayta ta qemata prepei na ta proseggizoyme etsi wste na apodeijoyme oti qeloyme na bohqhsoyme kai oxi na ekmetalleyqoyme ena problhma, poy qewroyme oti yparxei, prokeimenoy emeis na anadeijoyme ton eayto mas. Eite ws spoydaioi dhmosiografoi, eite ws spoydaioi politikoi, eite ws patriwtes omogeneis, eite otidhpote allo. Ayto to opoio exei shmasia, kai einai para poly aplo nomizw, einai na doyme oti shmera sth braxonhsida ayth, opws kai ta prohgoymena xronia, phgainei o boskos, exei ta zwa toy ekei, ta potizei, ta frontizei, synexizetai, loipon, h zwh opws h zwh ayth htan gnwsth stoys perioikoys epi dekades xronia. Ayto einai poy exei shmasia ki ayto einai poy prepei n' anadeixqei.

MARDAS: Meta ap' ayto to "logidrio" poy mas bgalate qelw na sas rwthsw apagoreyetai stoys dhmosiografoys na pane s' ayto to nhsaki nai h oxi;

REPPAS: Sas apanthsa k. Marda, para to oti stenoxwroymai kaqe fora poy h apanthsh moy den sas ikanopoiei oloys. To jerw oti den sas ikanopoiei. Qa anhsyxoysa an synebaine to antiqeto. Giati, prepei na pw oti to erwthma polles fores tiqetai gia na doqei sygkekrimenh apanthsh. An den doqei sygkekrimenh apanthsh, tote payei na exei ajia kai to erwthma. Etsi antilambanomai polles fores egw. Etsi diapistwnw egw polla qemata poy einai para poly shmantika, ta opoia syzhtoyme, den blepoyn to fws ths hmeras, eite sta entypa eite sta Hlektronika Mesa, pote. Enw proballontai qemata ta opoia einai deyterhs shmasias. Kata th dikh moy krish isws; Nomizw kata thn antikeimenikh krish.

KARAKWSTAS: Kyrie Ypoyrge, exei kapoio sxolio h Kybernhsh gia tis prosfates dhlwseis toy Ekproswpoy toy Steit Ntipartment k. Mperns, symfwna me tis opoies o proedros Klhridhs exei desmeyqei pros toys Amerikanoys oti den qa topoqethqoyn Ellhnika maxhtika aeroskafh sthn ypo kataskeyh bash sthn Kypro gia toys epomenoys 13 mhnes;

REPPAS: Gia ola ayta ta qemata exei apanthsei o k. Klhridhs, o opoios eipe oti den exei analabei desmeyseis. Alla kai o k. Klhridhs, opws ki emeis, exoyme pei oti eimaste diateqeimenoi (prokeimenoy na yparjei ena eynodko periballon, ena qetiko klima, wste mia prwtoboylia poy piqanon ekdhlwqei na exei tis eggyhseis, tis proypoqeseis na ejelixqei, na epityxei, na dwsei karpoys kai lysh sto problhma) na mh dhmioyrghsoyme problhma s' ayth thn periptwsh. Qa doyme qetika ti einai ayto to opoio prepei na kanoyme, syneisferontas apo thn pleyra mas, wste na dhmioyrghqei ayto to qetiko, to eynodko periballon ayths ths prwtoboylias. As doyme, omws, prwta thn prwtoboylia, h opoia den yparxei. Alla, bebaiws, einai allo ayto kai allo na ginetai logos gia desmeyseis. Kamia desmeysh den yparxei.

DHMTSAS: Kyrie Ypoyrge, h Kybernhsh kai o Prwqypoyrgos qewrei yperboliko ton ariqmo twn symboylwn orismenwn Ypoyrgwn; Protiqetai na zhthsei periorismo;

REPPAS: Eida kapoio dhmosieyma to opoio anaferetai se megalo ariqmo symboylwn oi opoioi apasxoloyntai se dhmosies yphresies kai se ypoyrgeia idiaiterws. Prepei na sas pw oti symfwna me toys organismoys poy yparxoyn, gia ta grafeia twn ypoyrgwn problepetai enas orismenos ariqmos synergatwn. Alla oi ariqmoi aytoi den exoyn kalyfqei sto synolo toys. Kaqe ypoyrgos apasxolei kapoioys synergates. Kai an milhsw me bash th dikh moy peira, prepei na pw oti den antapokrinetai sthn alhqeia to dhmosieyma. Egw, kata ton Organismo, exw th dynatothta na apasxolw 18 synergates. Prepei na sas pw oti den einai parapanw apo 12, ek twn opoiwn apo thn "eleyqerh agora" einai tesseris-pente. Oloi oi alloi einai apospasmenoi apo diafores alles yphresies toy Dhmosioy. Dinetai, dhladh, h entypwsh oti yparxei terastia epibarynsh sto Dhmosio kai ston proypologismo, epeidh proslambanontai straties symboylwn. Ayto den einai alhqino. Oi synergates oi opoioi xrhsimopoioyntai, apasxoloyntai hdh sto Dhmosio. Apla einai apospasmenoi sto grafeio kapoioy Ypoyrgoy.

MIXAHL: Ara, yparxoyn qeseis na kalyfqoyn gia na meiwqei kai h anergia.

REPPAS: Oi qeseis kalyptontai otan yparxei sygkekrimenos logos kai anagkh. Den einai aytoskopos na kalyfqei mia qesh. Kai bebaiws, den einai tropos gia na lysoyme ena problhma, sto opoio anaferqhke kai o k. Mixahl. Nomizw oti ola ayta prepei na ginontai m' ena tropo syneto.

MANWLAKOS: Kyrie Ypoyrge, gnwrizete oti thn Kyriakh qa ekdoqei mia efhmerida sth Qessalonikh me ypejairesh toy onomatos ths efhmeridas "Makedonia"...

REPPAS: Ypejairesh;

MANWLAKOS: Me ypejairesh.

REPPAS: Den gnwrizw leptomereies, k. Manwlako. Gnwrizw oti ergasthkate kai eiste ej aytwn oi opoioi eixan shmantikh symbolh sto na breqei lysh sto megalo problhma poy talaipwrei to gnwsto sygkrothma ths Qessalonikhs. Pisteyw oti qa breqei mia diejodos sthn ekkremothta ayth.

MANWLAKOS: H diejodos ayth einai ths ekkaqarishs.

REPPAS: Exei jekinhsei h ekkaqarish, apo ekei kai pera den gnwrizw ti alles symfwnies yparxoyn. An yparxei kati to opoio einai paranomo, pisteyw oti yparxoyn organa ta opoia qa epilhfqoyn.

MANWLAKOS: H Kybernhsh ti skeptetai na kanei apo th stigmh poy h ekdosh ayth antistrateyetai to dhmosio symferon, to Dhmosio to opoio metexei sthn ekkaqarish, ths Eqnikhs Trapezas, twn asfalistikwn organismwn. Ti skeftetai na kanei; Pws qa antimetwpisei to qema;

REPPAS: Yparxoyn dyo pedia sta opoia prepei na kinhqei. Ean pragmatika yparxei paranomh prajh, h paranomh ayth prajh pisteyw oti qa sygkentrwsei to endiaferon twn organwn ths Dikaiosynhs h twn dhmosiwn yphresiwn, prokeimenoy n' antimetwpisoyn ayth thn prospaqeia. Se politiko pedio, ayto to opoio h Kybernhsh kanei h prepei pantote na kanei, einai na mhn epiballei periorismoys. Einai dynaton emeis na epibaloyme logokritikoys h alloys periorismoys sth dynatothta twn entypwn na kykloforoyn; An yparxei omws problhma, to opoio exei na kanei me kapoies nomikes parabaseis, pisteyw oti q' antimetwpisqei apo ta armodia organa.

MANWLAKOS: Den yparxei mono nomikh parabash. Eseis ws armodios Ypoyrgos, ekfrazontas ayto to xwro toy dhmosioy symferontos, to xwro twn Meswn Mazikhs Enhmerwshs, den exete kamia dynatothta na prostateysete apo thn ypejairesh; Einai o idios o titlos ths "Makedonias".

REPPAS: Fantazomai, ean yparxei ypejairesh, epeidh oi titloi einai katoxyrwmenoi, qa yparxei to endiaferon twn armodiwn organwn gia n' antimetwpisoyn to problhma. Ayto den einai mono politiko qema. Einai qema poiniko, einai qema nomiko. Se politiko epipedo, epanalambanw, den einai dynaton emeis na epibaloyme periorismoys tetoioys oi opoioi qa einai apagoreytikoi, prokeimenoy na kykloforhsei kapoia efhmerida. Den antilambanomai poio einai akribws to qema poy qetete. An prokyptei blabh gia ta symferonta toy Dhmosioy, asfalws q' asxolhqoyme. Yp' ayto to prisma. Alla periorismos sthn epiqymia kapoioy na ekdwsei efhmerida, den einai dynaton na yparjei.

MANWLAKOS: Ma den einai kapoia efhmerida. Tria xronia h ka. Bellidh ypejairese toys misqoys twn dhmosiografwn, toys foroys, ta xreh pros to Dhmosio.

REPPAS: Ayto einai qema poy antimetwpizetai -epanalambanw- apo dikastika organa.

MANWLAKOS: Exoyn ginei diakosies agwges. Den exei ekdikasqei kamia, para mono mia poinikh ypoqesh. Einai eleyqerh kai h ka Bellidh epanaleitoyrgei thn epixeirhsh. Ayto einai pragmatika problhma, proklhsh pros to dhmosio symferon. Mhn moy lete pws den einai politiko problhma.

REPPAS: Kyrie Manwlako, ef' oson exoyn katateqei toses agwges kai paramenoyn se ekkremothta asfalws...

MANWLAKOS: ...se ekkremothta giati anaballontai synexws apo ta nomima organa ths Politeias.

REPPAS: Ma egw sas lew me kalh pisth, pws to oti yparxoyn 200 agwges oi opoies ekkremoyn, den exoyn ekdikasqei, den exoyn proxwrhsei, shmainei oti pragmatika kati asynhqisto yparxei edw....

MANWLAKOS: Den leitoyrgei...

REPPAS: Den antilegw s' ayto. Alla den einai qema toy Ypoyrgeioy Typoy. Einai qema to opoio prepei na to doyme, alla den einai qema sto opoio egw kyriws prepei na dwsw apanthsh.

KIAOS: Epi toy qematos: Epeidh prokeitai gia treis foreis, Dhmosio, Eqnikh Trapeza kai EDOEAP, oi opoioi einai amesa endiaferomenoi gia thn ekkaqarish apenanti sthn ka Bellidh. Enas apo toys foreis einai to Dhmosio, to Ypoyrgeio Oikonomikwn, h Kybernhsh en pash periptwsei. Sthn prokeimenh periptwsh, epeidh einai pasifanes oti ginetai sfeterismos toy logotypoy kai epeidh prokyptoyn ena swro qemata kai symferonta twn dhmosiografwn kai twn ergazomenwn genikotera, kai eidikotera toy Dhmosioy, praktika ean mporeite na mas peite to Dhmosio pws qa kynhghsei thn ypoqesh;

REPPAS: Kyrie Kiao, o k. Manwlakos xrhsimopoihse th lejh "ypejairesh". Eseis xrhsimopoihsate th lejh "sfeterismos". Ola ayta deixnoyn oti yparxei kapoio adikhma...

KIAOS: Mporei na mhn einai swstes oi lejeis.

REPPAS: An yparxei pragmatika adikhma, qa to krinoyn ta armodia organa. Apo kei kai pera epanalambanw oti asfalws qa yperaspisqoyme ta symferonta toy Dhmosioy kai qa ta diasfalisoyme. Den prepei na amfiballei kaneis.

KIAOS: Ti qa kanete;

REPPAS: Ef' oson yparjei sygkekrimeno problhma qa to antimetwpisoyme. Alla ayth thn wra to mono to opoio mhn perimenete na pw egw, einai pws qa yparxei periorismos sth dynatothta kapoioy na ekdidei eleyqera ena entypo sthn Ellada. An omws h prospaqeia ayth antibainei se nomoys, antibainei se ypoxrewseis poy exoyn analhfqei, asfalws qa yparjei analogh antidrash.

MIXAHL: Dhladh, kyrie Ekproswpe, epeidh eiste kai armodios Ypoyrgos na perimenoyme ama th ekdosei aytoy toy entypoy kai efoson diapistwqoyn paranomies, qa epembete kai qa zhthsete apo ta armodia organa...

REPPAS: Egw den eimai eisaggeleas. Ean pragmatika yparxei paranomh prajh, ta armodia organa pisteyw oti qa epilhfqoyn. Kai bebaiws, epiqymoyme na epilhfqoyn, ef' oson yparxei paranomh prajh.

Sas eyxaristw.

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