U.S. Department of State Daily Press Briefing #142, 99-11-22
From: The Department of State Foreign Affairs Network (DOSFAN) at <http://www.state.gov>
597
U.S. Department of State
Daily Press Briefing
I N D E X
Monday, November 22, 1999
Briefer: JAMES P. RUBIN
ANNOUNCEMENTS/STATEMENTS
1 Community of Democracies Ministerial Meeting in Warsaw
/Appointment of Special Haiti Coordinator
TAIWAN
2 Delegation of Taiwanese in Washington
EGYPT
2-7 Investigation of Egypt Air flight 990 has not slowed down /
Secretary Albright has met and discussed matter with FM Moussa /
NTSB is the lead investigator
RUSSIA (CHECHNYA)
7-13 Russia is going to lay siege to Grozny /There are acute concerns
on the attacks of civilians. Chechen representative to U.S.
calls for the West to withhold financial aid / US is not going
to link Chechnya to the subject of ABM
SYRIA
6 Alleged promises made by PM Rabin
OSCE/ ROMANIA
17 Chairman of the OSCE
PAKISTAN
9-10 Trial of PM Sharif / Arrival of U.S. observer / Is General
Musharraf setting down markers toward democracy?
10 Will Secretary Albright and/or President Clinton visit next year?
COLOMBIA
10-11 Extradition of narco-trafficker / U.S. have a close working
relationship with Colombian government
IRAN/DROC
10,13 Is there evidence that Iran supplied SCUD missiles to the DROC? /
US is concerned about arms sales to region
JAPAN
13 Proposal to move helicopter facilities from Okinawa to Naga City
KAZAKHSTAN/NORTH KOREA
14,15 Sanctions / MiG sales to North Korea / Humanitarian aid is
provided to N Korea
ISRAEL
16 Appointment of General Yarone
GREECE/CYPRUS
16 Visit of Mr. Clerides to New York
VENEZUELA
16 Government agreed to sell oil and use of oil refinery to Cuba
IRAQ
16,17 Oil-for Food Program / Tariq Aziz trip to Moscow
CUBA
17,18 Castro to WTO / No request for visa has been received
ALGERIA
18 Murder of FIS official / Majority of Algerians want an end to
violence
U.S. DEPARTMENT OF STATE
DAILY PRESS BRIEFING
DPB #142 MONDAY, NOVEMBER 22, 1999, 1:20 P.M.
(ON THE RECORD UNLESS OTHERWISE NOTED
MR. RUBIN: Greetings. Welcome to the State Department briefing on this
here Monday with the Charles Wolfson official yellow tie, the president of
your correspondents association. And some who are part of the association
seem never to be able to tie a half Windsor knot or any kind of knot
really.
QUESTION: Jamie, I've told you, you've got to buy me one.
MR. RUBIN: Let me begin. Some of you have asked some questions about an
announcement coming out of Warsaw about a meeting of the Community of
Democracies. Let me say that the United States welcomes the announcement
by the Government of Poland that they intend to host the first ever meeting
of countries that have chosen the democratic path. This gathering of the
Community Of Democracies will take place in late June of the year 2000 in
Warsaw and Secretary Albright enthusiastically welcomes this initiative and
endorses it.
Over the past decades, Poland has set an example for their world and their
leadership in their leadership in the defense of freedom and democracy. We
are proud to share with Poland and six other democracies from around the
world as a co-convenor of this initiative. Chile, the Czech Republic,
India, Mali and South Korea are the other co-convenors. Each of these
nations represents a wide range of democratic experience and cultural
heritage and has been active in planning the Warsaw meeting.
The goal of this Community of Democracies Ministerial Meeting, this
initiative, is to strengthen the capacity and effectiveness of existing
international organizations and their support for democracy. Governments
attending the meeting will affirm their commitment to a core set of
universal democratic principles by identifying best practices that have
worked around the world in considering new approaches the participating
ministers will develop a common agenda to bolster democratic institutions
and processes, improve coordination of democratic assistance programs and
more effectively respond to threats or interruptions of democracy when they
might occur.
We also have a statement on the special Haiti coordinator.
Any questions?
QUESTION: There is a story about a Taiwanese delegation -
MR. RUBIN: Sorry, one more thing. We will also have some paperwork
available for all of you who might be interested in this Community of
Democracies initiative in the Press Office and there are some officials who
can talk to you about it.
QUESTION: Is Russia invited?
MR. RUBIN: Russia is a democracy, yes. They have an elected president
the last time I checked.
QUESTION: Jamie, there is a story there is a Taiwanese delegation in
Washington now talking about Patriot missiles and so forth - do you have
anything on that or is this the wrong building?
MR. RUBIN: I have something on that but afterwards you still may say that
it's the wrong building. We do sell a number of items to Pakistan - I'm
sorry - to Taiwan for its self-defense in accordance with our obligations
under the Taiwan Relations Act and consistent with the 1982 US-PRC joint
communique. We do consult periodically on this matter, including with
Taiwan military representatives. We have agreed, however, with the Taiwan
authorities with which we speak not to discuss the specific details of this
process. So we don't have any announcements of any new or contemplated
sales at this time and we, again, have agreed not to discuss the specifics
as it unfolds.
QUESTION: I believe we have sold them in the past a previous generation
of Patriot, correct?
MR. RUBIN: I'll get you a list of what we've publicly acknowledged as the
sales and the discussions go forward. Any more on this?
QUESTION: To the Egypt Air situation.
MR. RUBIN: Yes.
QUESTION: I understand there is now a group of Americans who have gone to
Egypt to --
MR. RUBIN: Yes - that involves another agency and I would certainly
welcome any discussion that you or others might have with that other
agency.
QUESTION: Jamie, can you comment on continued - I don't know whether bad
press is the right topic - but the continued talk in the Egyptian press of
the US trying to deflect the investigation that we - the bad press that -
(inaudible) -
MR. RUBIN: Yes - I'm familiar with bad press; what I do for a living.
The fact is that I have spoken last week to the fact that just as it would
be wrong for people who are not fully informed to speculate about the
causes of this crash, it would be just as wrong, if not more wrong, for
people to spin out wildly exaggerated conspiracy theories. And it has
certainly been our approach to work with Egypt - Secretary Albright has
both met with and discussed this matter with Foreign Minister Moussa in a
way in which both of our governments made clear that we only have one
objective; and that is to get to the bottom of the cause of this crash.
And I think the sense I have from the discussions that have been held in
recent days is there's no doubt in our minds or any of the officials
responsible for this work that the Egyptians also want to get to the bottom
of this crash. Are there others who want to speculate and try to deflect
attention and point fingers and all that? That's not new.
QUESTION: So you don't see this press affecting relations between --
MR. RUBIN: It's been going on for quite some time now and we've been able
- whether it's the Middle East Peace Process or this tragic event - to get
beyond that kind of wildly exaggerated discussions.
QUESTION: Same subject - this crash occurred in international waters so
there was no obligation initially for the US to investigate it; we did so
at the request of Egypt. But it's unclear to me who has the lead, who pays
for it and who determines the structure of the investigation. It's not
just a national --
MR. RUBIN: I understand it and those are very good questions. I'm just
not competent to answer some of the technicalities about who pays for it.
I do know that the Egyptians asked the United States to conduct the
investigation and we have procedures in place in this country to do so
whether it's -- and the NTSB has been running the investigation. And if
you have questions as to how that's paid for and what the terms of that
investigation are, I'd welcome you directing them to the NTSB.
Our role here at the Department has been simply to meet with a number of
different Egyptian officials with whom we have a lot of contact; who we
know very well; where we have good relations and try to encourage the
maximum discussion between the investigators themselves and obviously
Egyptian Government officials who are interested.
QUESTION: To follow up on that, the NTSB doesn't deal with foreign
governments --
MR. RUBIN: Right.
QUESTION: -- and you do, so you must be the agency that works out how the
US will cooperate with foreign governments on something like this.
MR. RUBIN: Again, I'm agreeing with you that we work out how we cooperate
with foreign governments on the investigation, but you asked some cost
questions that I didn't know the answer to. What we've been doing in terms
of cooperation, having received the request to lead the investigation, has
been, as I indicated, trying to get the maximum cooperation at all levels,
making sure there are Egyptian technical experts, overcoming any questions
that might arise that the NTSB and other officials don't normally work on a
daily basis with Egyptian officials the way we do so a lot of that
coordinating facilitating diplomatic work we have done. But in terms of
the investigators and who they are and how they function, that is not
normally what the State Department does.
QUESTION: But in terms of the structuring of what is I guess a joint
investigation now, I think it would have to be --
MR. RUBIN: I don't think it is a joint investigation in the sense that
the - nothing has changed in terms of Egypt having asked the United States
to run the investigation. It is joint in the sense that we want to have
the Egyptians involved to the maximum extent that's practical and possible
and helpful and we have been doing that and I think the Egyptians are quite
pleased with their involvement at this point - in terms of their having
access to the investigators, in terms of their being part of the process.
Whether one or another investigator agrees with what another investigator
does or doesn't agree with. I don't think it would come as any surprise to
any of you that no two investigators from the same agency agree on every
single point.
QUESTION: NTSB was about to hand it over to the FBI last week or they
gave a lot of indications of that. And then that whole process slowed down
a lot because of Egypt, the Egyptian Government coming in. Is there any
fear that, you know, if this is prolonged, this sort of review of the data
that NTSB had, that it will be seen that the Egyptians are either delaying
or slowing or somehow interfering with the investigation?
MR. RUBIN: It depends on how all of you write it. If you write with the
understanding that the work hasn't stopped. When you say it's slowed down,
that's a misunderstanding of the investigative process. The investigative
process hasn't stopped from a particular day last week until now. It
didn't stop before a purported announcement occurred. It didn't stop or
slow down the day after. All the while, investigators have been working
and getting new information and reviewing information and getting new
involvement of experts. So there is nothing that has stopped. What you
are mistaking is the difference between who takes the lead, which is a
bureaucratic question. It obviously has certain implications but in either
case the investigation continues at the same determined pace that existed
before.
So will there be harm if there is not - depends on whether people explain
to the public and to the world in a way that's accurate, which would mean
that the investigation continues, using the resources of a number of
different agencies including the FBI, or whether people focus on a
bureaucratic question of who takes the lead.
QUESTION: You're saying in substance then there really is no difference --
MR. RUBIN: We're still only talking about a few days since this whole
thing was discussed. So these investigations are extraordinarily difficult
enterprises and for those of you who have covered them know, they can take
a long time.
QUESTION: Do you have any sense of when, in fact, this phase is going to
be completed so that the procedural issue could be --
MR. RUBIN: I wouldn't be able to answer that. I wouldn't be able to
answer that.
QUESTION: Follow-up?
MR. RUBIN: Yes.
QUESTION: I just want to pick up on the point that you said that
frequently within the same agency you have two investigators who wouldn't
agree, so --
MR. RUBIN: Phil Reeker and I disagree on half the subjects before I come
out. Then we work it out.
QUESTION: And who makes the final determination as to what will be
presented? And that's my question. With the investigation that's going on
right now, there are bound to be disagreements; bound to be subtleties that
one government will interpret differently from another. So who makes the
final determination in what ultimately caused the crash?
MR. RUBIN: That is for the lead investigator to answer. But the fact is
that we have no reason to believe that the Egyptians have any less desire
to get to the bottom of this - whatever this is - whatever the cause.
There is no reason to believe and therefore no reason to assume that there
will be a fundamental disagreement of the one you described.
QUESTION: And the lead investigator is the --
MR. RUBIN: At this time it's the NTSB.
QUESTION: Jamie, can you say --
MR. RUBIN: I really would have thought we would have covered most of the
waterfront on this topic.
QUESTION: Oh - I don't know; it gets more interesting as we go along.
MR. RUBIN: Let's keep swimming.
QUESTION: But let me ask this question - I'll put it this way. Could you
say were Egypt to say to the United States Government, we don't want any
further investigation; we don't want the FBI to be involved - would Egypt
have the overriding power with this government for the US Government to
keep the FBI out?
MR. RUBIN: The speculation that you're making is completely hypothetical
and it doesn't even fall into the realm of hypotheticals which I occasionally
answer, which is that it's likely or a possible outcome. We have no reason
to believe that the Egyptians have any different view than we do about the
importance of getting to the bottom of this, no matter what the cause.
There's no reason to believe that, therefore I don't intend to entertain
speculation premised on something I have no reason to believe.
QUESTION: Okay. Let me ask this. The Egyptians have been very quiet
since they have been allowed to have access to all of the --
MR. RUBIN: That's your characterization. I don't know that I can agree
with that. There's been - I saw the ambassador on television this weekend,
so they've continued to talk.
QUESTION: Yes, they have talked. But they haven't railed against the
theory of some kind of death-type dive in this; they haven't come back
against on what has been found on the two recorders. And I would just ask
you isn't that a sign that they're beginning to see the truth in this
matter?
MR. RUBIN: If you want to divine the intentions from your analysis of the
different ways in which the Egyptians have commented, I would urge you to
address that question to the Egyptians.
QUESTION: I'm just wondering if you have anything new to say about the
alleged promises made by Prime Minister Rabin to the Syrians given Patrick
Seals latest claim?
MR. RUBIN: As you know --
QUESTION: If you don't have anything new to say then don't go through the
whole -
(Laughter.)
MR. RUBIN: You take all the fun out of my job.
QUESTION: I don't want to waste time hearing you rehash the same
thing.
MR. RUBIN: Why don't I say what I have to say and then you decide whether
you think I have anything new to say. You don't want me to take away your
job for you. Isn't it your job to decide whether it's new? And I
certainly wouldn't want to take that important responsibility away from
you.
With respect to a number of reports about what a particular author wrote in
a particular book, let me say that it is not possible to separate the
accuracies from the inaccuracies and I am not going to try to do that. I
can say that the United States during the period in question only conveyed
to the Syrians what we were authorized to convey. I can also say that the
premise behind all of this was a very simple one, that nothing is agreed
until everything is agreed. And that remains our view.
But having - trying to get into the details of this, we believe, would not
be helpful at a time when we are working so hard in a number of channels to
try to develop a basis for restarting the talks and to develop a basis for
having those talks quickly reach an agreement if they are restarted.
QUESTION: On Egypt, can you comment on the extent to which Mubarak has
been working with the Administration on the investigation?
MR. RUBIN: I know Secretary Albright has met with Foreign Minister Moussa
in Istanbul on this subject. I know that she has spoken to him. I know
that one of his top advisors was here and has met with Under Secretary
Pickering. To what extent President Mubarak has discussed this matter with
others, I would have to leave it for them to say.
QUESTION: What is the follow-on to last week's OSCE agreements,
meetings?
MR. RUBIN: Well, Chairman in Office Vollebaek would be in the position to
describe in further detail what his intentions are with respect to
agreement to a visit to the North Caucuses by Norwegian Foreign Minister
Knut Vollebaek. See, I got to the point in this job where I can actually
correct what's written in front of me where they wrote that it's prime
minister. And I'm not sure anybody else can do that but that's my task.
Jim Hoagland might be able to do that.
QUESTION: (Inaudible.)
MR. RUBIN: And so it would be up to him to describe what his intentions
are. I don't believe he has developed a schedule yet. I believe that he
is going to be in touch with a number of governments. We are certainly
going to urge that this useful first step take place as soon as practical.
QUESTION: He was supposed to go once before and the Russians excluded him
from Chechnya itself. It was a question of --
MR. RUBIN: Right. And I think it is fair to say that the agreement to go
was made at a much higher level this time than the last time. This was
something that Foreign Minister Ivanov discussed and negotiated directly
with Secretary Albright and a number of others in Istanbul and there was an
agreement to go. Now, what the terms of the visit are and the details and
logistics would be up to Mr. Vollebaek to describe his intentions and what
would be a satisfactory visit. We certainly wholeheartedly support his
effort.
QUESTION: Well, last time around it was - the visit was agreed by Prime
Minister Putin and I think Secretary Albright was also a part of it so I am
just wondering why the certainty that this is going to happen this
time.
MR. RUBIN: Well, nothing in life is certain other than tomorrow's likely
arrival of the sun. Yes.
QUESTION: Do you have anything else on Chechnya?
MR. RUBIN: Not particularly.
QUESTION: Still on Russia?
MR. RUBIN: Yes.
QUESTION: Is there any reaction to the comments by Colonel - General
Vladimir Yakovlev who has said that if a commission were set up between the
United States and Russia to examine the threat from rogue states, then it
could be discussed in more detail the need to create national anti-missile
systems. He said this on Russian television after the summit.
MR. RUBIN: Well, certainly any time that Russian military leaders
understand and share our concern about the danger emerging from the
proliferation of ballistic missiles to certain troublesome countries is a
welcome sign. What we have been trying to discuss with Russia is to make
them - in our discussions, help them come to agreement with us on the need
to recognize that the 1972 ABM treaty was signed at a time when this
particular set of threats was not as acute and that the arrival of these
threats does change the security environment and the ABM treaty itself made
clear that it was appropriate for the parties to discuss changes, depending
on the security environment as it emerges.
So we have been trying to have that discussion. We expect it to be a long
discussion, not an easy discussion. We've been trying to sensitize Russia
not only to the threats and concerns that we have about the danger of
missile proliferation from these dangerous countries but also the way in
which we can see an anti-missile system be deployed without calling into
question Russia's strategic deterrent. So any sign that they have come to
a greater appreciation of this threat and want to work with us cooperatively
on this threat is certainly welcome from our standpoint.
QUESTION: A follow up - is there any - are you aware of any - (inaudible)
- from Russia having been made to set up such a commission or is this --
MR. RUBIN: I'm not. That's the first I've heard of it, but certainly the
idea that they would want to work closely with us on defining the threat
and then dealing with the threat would be welcome.
QUESTION: The inter-fax agency today announced that Russia was going to
surround Grozny sometime by mid-December. Could you please give the
reaction of the US Government to that announcement? And also, does it
appear to this government, Mr. Rubin, that Russia is going to lay siege to
Grozny during the winter?
MR. RUBIN: There are press reports that indicate that Russian forces
continue air and artillery attacks across Chechnya. Fighting appears now
focused on towns outlying the capital city of Grozny.
I think the President made very clear, and Secretary Albright made very
clear in Istanbul, the dangers we see from a Russian offensive that doesn't
have a political solution and the concerns we have about the humanitarian
situation and the acute concern we have about the indiscriminate attacks on
civilians. So I think our views have been laid out quite clearly on the
question you raised and I'd be happy to get you comments of what the
Secretary did say.
QUESTION: Do you have any thoughts on the trial of Sharif in Pakistan -
how it's being conducted thus far?
MR. RUBIN: Yes. We are monitoring as closely as we can the developments
in Pakistan. Former - deposed Prime Minister Sharif has now appeared in
court. He has been charged with treason and kidnapping and has denied his
guilt. We understand the court proceedings will resume this Friday. The
court has ordered that Sharif have access to lawyers and his family. We
are monitoring the situation closely, including sending an observer to the
hearings in Karachi.
We have repeatedly urged that Sharif and all others detained be treated
fairly and impartially and in accordance with internationally accepted
standards of due process. And we have made these points directly to
authorities in Pakistan, including directly to General Musharraf.
QUESTION: But thus far does it look like they've heeded those calls?
MR. RUBIN: Again, it just began and so Sharif is being tried in a special
anti-terrorism court which was established during his tenure. These courts
afford Sharif certain rights, including an open hearing with the high court-
appointed judges, the right of appeal. There have been public press and
international observers attending the hearings and it is too soon to make a
grand judgment considering that it just started.
QUESTION: (Inaudible) - isolation for 41 days. Is that appropriate
treatment for a former prime minister?
MR. RUBIN: Well, I think we certainly - the due process question I don't
think directly relates to what you said. I am not aware - you know, we
were concerned about his treatment and that's why we raised the issue. If
we had no concerns, we would never raise it.
QUESTION: Has the observer arrived yet, this US observer, in Karachi?
MR. RUBIN: I believe he has been there already.
QUESTION: He's been there?
MR. RUBIN: Yes.
QUESTION: Have you seen any indication that General Musharraf is setting
down any kind of markers towards democracy?
MR. RUBIN: Not as of yet, no. We certainly are looking for him to set a
set of milestones for the return to civilian rule and we have urged that in
a number of forums. We have made clear that in the absence of that, it
will not be possible for us to have business as usual and we have not seen
the kind of concrete milestones that we have been seeking.
QUESTION: And barring any kind of movement on that, do you think we can
rule out that Secretary Albright or the President would be visiting
Pakistan next year?
MR. RUBIN: Well, I would like to borrow a phrase from the political
world. I don't think ruling out or saying never are particularly wise
things for governments to do.
QUESTION: From Colombia, the government of Pastrana has already
extradited a narco-trafficker. And there is - (inaudible) - in Colombia
that this event could spread narco-terrorism activities.
MR. RUBIN: Will what?
QUESTION: Narco-terrorism.
MR. RUBIN: Will spread them?
QUESTION: Yes. The fact that they extradite the narco-traffickers, that
the criminal organizations will do some narco-terrorism acts in Colombia.
Is the United States Government working with Colombia to prevent this?
MR. RUBIN: We have a very close working relationship with the government
of Colombia. It is our view that bringing narcotics traffickers to justice
is an important deterrent to the activities of narco-traffickers. Some may
have a different view but that's our view. So we support the Pastrana
administration's extradition of the alleged drug king pin Jaime Orlando
Lara from Colombia to the United States. We regard this as a very positive
sign that demonstrates the courage and commitment of the Pastrana
administration in the battle against narcotics trafficking and we will
continue to work closely with Colombia in our joint efforts in this
area.
QUESTION: Does the Department have any evidence that Iran has supplied
SCUD missiles to the DRC?
MR. RUBIN: Do you still want to stay in Colombia? Then we will go to the
Iran scud.
QUESTION: What kind of support can the US offer Pastrana's government to -
-
MR. RUBIN: We have an extensive aspect of - extensive support already
provided in the form of assistance to a number of different organizations
in Colombia. I'd be happy to provide you the extent of our assistance
after the briefing. I don't have all those details at my fingertips.
QUESTION: All right. Can I assume that the beginning - that the answer
to my colleague's question over there is that the US doesn't foresee that
there will be any kind of backlash in Colombia?
MR. RUBIN: No, no, no - I wouldn't assume that. What I was saying was
that the fight against trafficking with drug lords and narcotics traffickers
is a hard fight. If this were an easy fight it would've been over already.
The question is whether one should pull one's punches in bringing to
justice these people and let their terrorism deter justice. And what I'm
indicating in response to your colleague's question is that's not our view.
Our view is the right approach is to bring to justice narcotics traffickers;
to coordinate and cooperate as best as we can with Colombia; to praise the
courage and commitment of President Pastrana and his administration in
standing up to the narco-traffickers. But that is not an indication that
we will rule out the possibility of any problem resulting from it.
QUESTION: Do you expect the Colombian Government to extradite some or
most of the 30 or 40 nationals that have been requested by your government?
MR. RUBIN: We certainly want to see extraditions and we certainly hope
that this courage and commitment that we've seen will be the harbinger of a
greater ability for the United States and Colombia to work together in this
battle.
QUESTION: Back to Chechnya -- if I understand you correctly, you said
just now that you have acute concerns on the attacks on civilians - is that
the phrase?
MR. RUBIN: Yes. I think you and I have had extensive colloquies about my
acute concerns.
QUESTION: Has there been any sign of any diminution of any kind since -
(inaudible) -- ?
MR. RUBIN: That question is worded too specifically for me to - I'm not
an intelligence analyst. I couldn't possibly answer that question.
QUESTION: Is there any sign that the Russians have somehow moderated
their assault in Chechnya since the summit of last week -- it's only seven
days -- and going the political route - or started down the political route
that the President has asked them?
MR. RUBIN: We certainly don't - the concerns that we had that existed at
Istanbul have not diminished.
QUESTION: (Inaudible.)
MR. RUBIN: Yes.
QUESTION: The Chechen representative to the United States today called
for the West to withhold financial aid to Russia until negotiations can get
underway.
MR. RUBIN: To what?
QUESTION: To withhold financial aid to Russia until negotiations can be
set up. And I'm wondering what your response is?
MR. RUBIN: Everyone is entitled to their opinion and others have
expressed opinions in that regard. Let me explain our reasoning.
If you look at the bulk of the assistance, it falls into three general
categories. Either it falls into the category of assistance to try to
prevent and protect against the dangers of nuclear materials - and we do
believe that it's extremely important to have a counter-proliferation
program with Russia working day-to-day on matters like maintaining the best
possible inventory of their weapons system; providing kevlar blankets and
other techniques to protect nuclear weapons as they are moved around. And
we think that's extremely important and it would be counterproductive to
the world's interests for us to withhold funding for those kinds of
programs.
The second kind of programs tend to fall in the category of democracy
building. That is providing assistance to groups in civil society, in free
press, in freedom of religion, in democracy building institutions which,
again, we think it would be counterproductive to not provide because the
bulk of that doesn't go to the Russian government.
If you are talking about the IMF question, we haven't made any decision on
that. The IMF is discussing that issue with the Russians. There are
economic criteria that we have applied and will continue to apply as we
move forward.
QUESTION: Jamie, also on Chechnya, last week I think the Secretary was
asked whether there was any quid pro quo being offered by the Russians and
the answer was, and I think she rejected the possibility that we would -
that in response to Russian concessions on SDI we would lay off on
assaulting or criticizing them on Chechnya.
Is there any concern, though, that they may be doing that very thing?
Making an offer on SDI in some way even as they are carrying on full tilt
in Chechnya?
MR. RUBIN: Let me say this. First of all, I agree with Secretary
Albright. Second of all, you have to understand the way high-level
diplomacy really works. And the way it works is if the Russians indicate
flexibility on Iraq or SDI, it undercuts their ability to continue to argue
the merits of the case, whether or not it is because they are linking it to
some other issue. In other words, if Russia for five long weeks has said,
we'll never do X and we'll never do Y and we'll never do Z because it's got
these dangerous consequences or is against our interests or whatever, and
then the next day they say well, actually, it would be okay if we did X, Y
and Z, provided you did something on another subject. And we reject the
linkage and we've made very clear we are not going to link the subject of
Chechnya to the subject of ABM or the subject of Iraq or any other
subject.
But by doing so what they end up doing is making it clear that they have
flexibility on the positions and we just focus on that. And that's the way
the real world works. There is always somebody who imagines that linkage
can be doesn't in some grand way but, in my six years of experience of
observing these kind of discussions in New York and in Washington, I've
never seen it happen.
Let's see if we can move around a little bit. Yes.
QUESTION: A different subject. On Japan, I was wondering if you had any
reaction to the Okinawan Governor Inamine's proposal to move the helicopter
facilities to Naga City where the summit will be held next year?
MR. RUBIN: We welcome the announcement of a replacement site for MCAS
Futenma. The announcement by Okinawa governor Inamine is an important step
in implementing the final report of the Special Action Committee on
Okinawa. We look forward to continued progress as we work with the
government of Japan on this important effort.
We are committed to appropriate steps to consolidate, realign and reduce US
facilities in Okinawa consistent with the objectives of the Treaty of
Mutual Cooperation and Security and the SACO Final Report. The relocation
will be a major step in the effort to reduce the footprint of the US
military presence on Okinawa. We are confident that it's relocation will
be beneficial to both American forces and the people of Okinawa.
We are not in a position to comment on all the specifics of the governor's
statement and at this time we are going to be discussing it directly
between Japan and the United States on some of the details and we, of
course, as one of our goals, want to make sure that any new facility meets
our operational requirements.
QUESTION: On Africa - does the Department --
MR. RUBIN: You bounced around - I thought you were on Iran.
QUESTION: No - I popped - well, it's sort of connected. Is there any
evidence that the Department has that Iran has sold SCUD missiles to the
DRC? And if so, what are your concerns about the regional security
implications?
MR. RUBIN: We've had concerns about arms sales to that region for some
time. We continue to have concerns about provision of military assistance
to the regime in Congo. We take very seriously all reports of transfers of
missile proliferation concern and will be following vigorously various
reports and taking appropriate action when there is evidence that these
issues of concern - transfers of concern - have taken place. Beyond making
that general statement, I'm prohibited from commenting on intelligence
information.
QUESTION: On another question of weapons sales - has the US placed
imposed sanctions on Kazakhstan for its MiG sales to North Korea?
MR. RUBIN: There are specific circumstances under American law that
requires us to withhold assistance from foreign governments that transfer
lethal military equipment. We are permitted to waive sanctions in whole or
in part if we determine to do so. In accordance with these laws we have
determined that Kazakhstan has transferred lethal military equipment,
specifically MiG-21 fighter aircraft, to North Korea. We have imposed
sanctions on the firms directly involved in the transactions. The
Kazakhstan-owned Uralsk Plant Metallist and the private Czech firm
Agroplast and against certain Agroplast officials.
We did impose and then waive sanctions against the Kazakhstan Government,
which has been cooperating closely with us in the investigation follow up
on this sale. We are, in addition to cutting off USG assistance -
government assistance - we are taking the necessary steps to ban procurement
from and prohibiting export of munitions-list items to these companies and
individuals. We're also looking at the possibility of imposing additional
measures.
These firms were directly responsible for selling and arranging delivery to
North Korea of the equipment in question. These sanctions will remain in
force until one year after the transfers of lethal equipment have ceased or
until we determine that it is important to our interests to waive this
sanction.
With respect to what was at stake here in terms of assistance, approximately
$14 million in assistance to the Kazakhstan Government was potentially
affected under the provision. But obviously we waived that. We are going
to continue to review all the applicable information we have to ensure that
the specific entities that were sanctioned don't get any assistance.
We have discussed these transfers intensively with the Kazakhstan
Government. The government candidly admitted that the transfer occurred
contrary to official government policy and they have cooperated with our
investigation into the transfers. Our decision reflects this cooperation.
We will continue to urge that Kazakhstan uphold its commitment not to
transfer lethal military equipment to North Korea and we will be working
with Kazakhstan on increasing its cooperation with the US Government,
including implementing stringent export control measures to prevent such
transfers in the future.
Kazakhstan has undertaken its own investigation of this matter and we
understand that it may pursue violators of Kazakhstani export control and
related laws in connection with this transfer in the future.
QUESTION: What are the sanctions against the companies?
MR. RUBIN: This would prohibit, I mentioned earlier on, this would
prohibit government procurement from and export of US munitions items to
and munitions list item imports from these companies and individuals.
QUESTION: Was it a government-owned company which did the --
MR. RUBIN: It was a government-owned company. Yes, Uralsk Plant
Metallist.
QUESTION: Is it credible that the government didn't know that MiGs were
being --
MR. RUBIN: We believe, as a result of our cooperation with the government,
that they - the government worked with us to - there were a number of steps
taken against the officials involved that made us believe that they were
serious about dealing with the problem and we made our judgment of how to
proceed based on the extensive cooperation we received in this investigation.
QUESTION: Did it change the balance, the arms balance in the Korean
Peninsula?
MR. RUBIN: I don't believe they ever got there. Let me check that.
Yes, we're talking about 40 aircraft and they did get there and I don't
believe that, since they are 1960s vintage technology aircraft, they are
not deemed to be militarily significant.
QUESTION: Do you have a spelling for those?
MR. RUBIN: The companies? The Kazakhstani company is spelled Uralsk
Plant Metalist, U-R-A-L-S-K Plant Metalist. The Czech firm, private firm,
is called Agroplast, just the way it sounds.
QUESTION: When do sanctions go into effect?
MR. RUBIN: In the last couple of days, November 17.
QUESTION: Is North Korea under any injunctions from the United States, in
view of the help they're getting from us, not to be buying equipment like
that?
MR. RUBIN: I don't believe we are giving them much help, Roy. In fact,
we put them on a number of lists that make it impossible to provide foreign
assistance to North Korea. We do provide humanitarian food aid and we have
made it a policy in this government to try to separate humanitarian food
aid for starving people from other types of assistance.
QUESTION: Also on North Korea?
MR. RUBIN: Yes.
QUESTION: Do you have anything more on the talks?
MR. RUBIN: They have recessed and they are going to consult in capitals.
I don't have much to offer on the specific issues that they are going to
consult about.
QUESTION: Human rights activists and international lawyers are shocked by
the appointment of General Yaron as Director General of the Ministry of
Defense in Tel Aviv. As you know, Prime Minister Barak is his own defense
minister. So this personality will be the person who will have the closest
contact with the Department of Defense. He has been declared a war
criminal by the Canadians who refuse to permit his appointment a few years
ago.
Does the Department have any reaction to this appointment of General
Yaron?
MR. RUBIN: I am not aware of any reaction nor am I aware that people
would agree with the facts as you presented them.
QUESTION: Greek Cypriot leader, Mr. Clerides announced in Athens, he said
that he is coming to New York because of the US giving them some assurance
and guarantees on the Cyprus subject. What kind of guarantees you give
them or assurance give them?
MR. RUBIN: What we did and what we are happy to say we did is we urged
both parties to seize the opportunity for peace and we offered to be of
assistance where we can. We are not in a position to offer answers to the
ultimate questions. Our views are well known about the outcome we seek.
We want substantive issues discussed and we will be there to be of
assistance as the UN conducts these talks.
QUESTION: (Inaudible) - it was a unified reaction through the unilateral
laws by the United States. But members of either the American summit, like
the Helms-Burton Law -
MR. RUBIN: I noticed you didn't ask me any questions about how the people
there reacted very well to the -
QUESTION: I wanted your reaction and also the Venezuelan Government
agreed with Cuba to sell them oil and use an oil refinery in the island and
so I wondered what your reaction, the US Government reaction or comments
about it.
MR. RUBIN: I am sure you are also interested in our views about the
importance of the fact that for the first time in a long time, a number of
very, very senior presidents and foreign ministers and ministers from all
over Latin America very directly and bluntly spoke to the people of Cuba
about their violations of human rights. They met with human rights
activists. This was an important development. And, given all the
questions you asked about Cuba, I am stunned that in the last week you've
never mentioned that.
But with respect to the question you did ask, I'll check.
QUESTION: Is there a reaction to Baghdad's announcement that it won't
accept the latest tranche of food in the oil-for-food program?
MR. RUBIN: Let me say the following. We do not believe that this is a
crisis situation because there are - there is sufficient food and medicine
in the pipeline. We believe that there would be no immediate impact
because there is a full pipeline of humanitarian goods that have been
contracted for and are on their way to Iraq.
If Iraq does indeed fail to implement the oil-for-food program, it will be
thumbing its nose at the international community again and flouting the
international community's will and, more importantly, showing its utter
disdain and utter lack of concern for the people of Iraq. And if, after
every time that Iraq shows its contempt for the world and its contempt for
the world's concern about the people of Iraq, it only makes it harder for
Iraq's positions to be taken seriously in the Security Council.
QUESTION: I believe it's one day later this month, maybe the 29th, that
Tariq Aziz is scheduled to go to Moscow for meetings there to try to
persuade Moscow to hang tough and not allow a consensus on this UN draft
resolution. Can you give us any sense as to how it's going within the P-5?
I know they're meeting today.
MR. RUBIN: We continue to meet regularly. Secretary Albright spoke to
Foreign Minister Ivanov a couple of times last week. I think we have been
in touch at fairly high levels during the course of the day. We are trying
to explain to Russia and other countries why we think this is a reasonable
approach that meets our objectives of ensuring that Iraq doesn't get
sanctions relief until it cooperates with Security Council requirements.
And it also, we hope, will include the recognition that this approach is
increasingly supported by a larger and larger number of members of the
Security Council, that there is a growing consensus, an emerging consensus
of nearly all the members of the council about how to approach the Iraq
problem in a way that requires Iraq to comply with its obligations and also
shows Iraq a path forward. And so we're certainly hopeful that Russia will
see the wisdom of this path. But as far as what will happen in the end,
it's not predictable.
QUESTION: Two things on Romania - if you like, do you have anything
regarding that letter that was sent by the Helsinki Commission a few days
ago - a week ago - in respect to some concerns regarding the restitution of
the property stolen by the former Communist regime? And also, the second
thing, what - if you'd like to refer to the future role of Romania in the
OSCE?
MR. RUBIN: On the second point, we're certainly pleased that Romania will
be the chairman in office for the OSCE in the upcoming year and we look
forward to developing with Romania a good work plan for their chairmanship.
With respect to the first question, I'll have to get back to you. I don't
have any available information.
QUESTION: What is the current thinking about the possibility that Fidel
Castro will come to the WTO meeting in Seattle?
MR. RUBIN: We've not received a visa request.
QUESTION: If you do, is there anything you can do to discourage? Will
you discourage him from going or - (inaudible) -- ?
MR. RUBIN: At this point, we are awaiting a visa request or awaiting to
react until we have a visa request.
QUESTION: (Inaudible) - Cuba is a member of the WTO organization. The
president of that country is able to visit the city or stay in the city
where it's held - (inaudible) -- ?
MR. RUBIN: I'm glad you're familiar with the legal abilities at your
fingertips; I'm not. I'd be happy to get a lawyer to provide an answer to
what the legal issues are. But as far as our position on the visa, we are
awaiting and have not received a visa request before making any statement
on that.
QUESTION: I have two kind of second to your questions. The first one is
did anything substantial or significant come out of the Arctic Council
meeting here last week? Or maybe you don't even know --
MR. RUBIN: I'll check that for you.
QUESTION: And the second one is, do you have any reaction to the murder
of this FIS official in Algeria this morning?
MR. RUBIN: On that subject, let me say that we condemn this attack as we
do all terrorism in Algeria. The attack on Hachani is a fresh assault by
extremism against Algeria's reconciliation process. The September 16
referendum on the amnesty law demonstrated clearly that the overwhelming
majority of Algerians want an end to violence. It is their wishes, not the
actions of a few, that must determine the future of Algeria.
(The briefing was concluded at 2:15 p.m.)
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