Greek Government Press Briefing, 11-01-27

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From: The Hellenic Ministry of Press & Mass Media <http://www.minpress.gr/>

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Dieyqynsh Plhroforhshs

Tmhma Dhmosiografikwn Kalycewn

Pempth, 27 Ianoyarioy 2011

Ariqmos Deltioy: 313172667

Ekdosh 1

BRIEFING(27012011)

KYBERNHTIKOS EKPROSWPOS

Aqhna, 27 Ianoyarioy 2011

GIWRGO PETALWTH

Kalo meshmeri.

H kybernhsh apodeiknyei kaqhmerina oti qetei to eqniko symferon, ws ycisth proteraiothta. Se ayto to plaisio, me isxyrh politikh boylhsh kai me bash thn ajiopistia mas poy exoyme anakthsei, otan diapistwnoyme oti qigetai to eqniko symferon, oti zhmiwnetai h xwra, eimaste apofasismenoi na diereynoyme kai na diekdikoyme otidhpote exei na kanei me thn perioysia toy ellhnikoy laoy.

Gi` ayto to logo, opws gnwrizete, o ypoyrgos Epikrateias eixe steilei epistolh sth Siemens -yphrje malista kai antistoixh apanthsh- gia thn apokatastash twn zhmiwn poy exei ypostei to ellhniko Dhmosio.

Kaname kai synexizoyme na kanoyme o,ti einai dynaton, praktika kai nomika, wste na apozhmiwqei h xwra gia th zhmia poy exei proklhqei. Ayto, omws, den arkei. Apaiteitai -kai to ylopoioyme - h qwrakish twn qesmwn, wste na mhn exoyme paromoia fainomena sto mellon.

Einai aparaithth h diafaneia sto dhmosio bio, toso se epipedo Dhmosias Dioikhshs, oso kai se epipedo proswpwn, politikwn klp. Oi kinhseis mas einai safeis: Diaygeia, ASEP, oysiastiko poqen esxes twn politikwn -apo tis 6 Ianoyarioy yparxei h protash toy ypoyrgoy Eswterikwn, k. Ragkoysh, gia to anadromiko poqen esxes twn politikwn- aysthros elegxos sta oikonomika twn kommatwn kai allagh ston eklogiko nomo, sth bash poy anefere xqes kai o Prwqypoyrgos sthn Koinoboyleytikh Omada.

Sto Ypoyrgiko Symboylio syzhthqhke akomh, opws gnwrizete, to neo forologiko nomosxedio, ta qemelia toy opoioy eixan teqei apo to 2010 kai pleon ylopoieitai plhrws. H forologikh dikaiosynh gia thn kybernhsh einai meizon zhthma koinwnikhs dikaiosynhs kai isothtas. Den einai dynaton na epitrecoyme na synexizetai mia eknomh katastash, opoy synepeis polites kaloyntai na shkwsoyn to forologiko baros, enw kapoioi alloi systhmatika forodiafeygoyn eis baros twn synepwn politwn. Antimetwpizoyme, loipon, drastika th forodiafygh, bazontas terma sto forologiko asylo poy apolambanoyn epi polla xronia kapoioi. H forologikh dikaiosynh einai zhthma eynomias gia thn kybernhsh, einai zhthma swsths leitoyrgias ths Politeias kai apokatastashs ths empistosynhs metajy toy kratoys kai twn politwn. Kai ayth thn apokatastash, thn efarmozoyme, thn epidiwkoyme, thn ylopoioyme.

Parakalw tis erwthseis sas.

BLABIANOS: Kyrie Ekproswpe, o Proedros ths Dhmokratias milhse gia kataxrhsh toy asyloy sth Nomikh. Qa hqela th qesh ths kybernhshs, epi toy qematos aytoy.

PETALWTHS: Yparxei ena safes qesmiko kai nomiko plaisio gia to asylo. Einai eyqynh toy kaqenos, analoga me thn katastash ths katapathshs h oxi toy asyloy, na analabei tis eyqynes toy. Apo th stigmh poy katapateitai to asylo yparxei dedomenh diadikasia, akrws desmeytikh, gia ta organa. H diadikasia einai gnwsth. Apaiteitai sygklhsh toy prytanikoy symboylioy, ean yparxei diapistwsh oti katapateitai to asylo kai prosklhsh se eisaggelea gia na yparjoyn kai ta deonta apo ekei kai pera.

PIKOYLAS: H kybernhsh den blepei sygkekrimenes eyqynes ypoyrgwn gi` ayto poy egine sth Nomikh;

PETALWTHS: Ws pros ti;

PIKOYLAS: Giati mphkan oi metanastes mesa kai argotera.

PETALWTHS: Prwta ap` ola, na dhlwsoyme, to dhlwse kai o Prwqypoyrgos me kathgorhmatiko tropo oti aytoi oi metanastes, asxeta ean einai nomimoi h laqraioi, ginontai pragmatika qymata kai ergaleia se mikropolitikes kapoiwn oi opoioi prospaqoyn, ekmetalleyomenoi th dystyxia aytwn twn anqrwpwn kai genikws twn metanastwn, na apokomisoyn politika ofelh, na dhmioyrghsoyn biaies entaseis, etsi wste pragmatika -ayto prosdokoysan, ayto perimenan- na exoyme mia Aqhna diaforetikh ap` ayth poy yparxei shmera. Me epeisodia, me anastatwsh kai me poly pio dramatikes synepeies ap` aytes poy zoyme. Eimaste jekaqaroi apo thn arxh, oti ayto den prokeitai na to epitrecoyme. Den prokeitai na epitrecoyme th bia, se ola ta epipeda. Apo ekei kai pera, fysika, yparxei opws proanefera, to qesmiko plaisio. Einai safes kai kaqenas analambanei tis eyqynes toy. Ayto einai jekaqaro. Apo thn pleyra ths h Politeia, se epipedo kybernhshs, elabe ola ekeina ta metra kai akomh ta lambanei, etsi wste na yparxei h kalyterh kai h pio endedeigmenh gia oloys, lysh.

PIKOYLAS: Dhladh, prin mpoyn, h kybernhsh, to armodio ypoyrgeio Prostasias toy Polith, den exei eyqynh gia na mh mpoyn aytoi oi anqrwpoi mesa sto asylo;

PETALWTHS: Prwta ap` ola yparxei asylo. H parempodish ths eisodoy se ena panepisthmiako idryma einai katarghsh toy asyloy. Den yphrxe periptwsh, h ellhnikh Politeia na kanei kati tetoio. Efoson den yphrxe kamia enhmerwsh, den yphrxe kamia epishmh prosklhsh twn prytanikwn Arxwn den qa mporoyse na apokleistei h eisodos opoioydhpote, se opoiodhpote panepisthmiako idryma, opws den mporei na apokleistei kai twra, fysika. Den yphrxe epishmh prosklhsh apo kanenan. Synepws kai h Astynomia kai h Politeia ekane to kaqhkon ths.

MPELEGRHS: Otan teleiwsei ayth h istoria, h kybernhsh skeftetai na allajei to qesmiko plaisio gia to asylo;

PETALWTHS: Prwta ap` ola, to sygkekrimeno nomo ton exei qespisei, ton exei chfisei h N.D. Einai nomos ths N.D., gi` ayto shmera otan h N.D. anaferetai sthn katarghsh toy asyloy qa prepei na einai pio tekmhriwmenh, pio pisteyth kai fysika na exei kai mia eniaia grammh. O k. Samaras, ejw apo to Proedriko Megaro, eipe oti qa prepei na katarghqei to asylo. O armodios tomearxhs Paideias ths N.D., k. Sphliwtopoylos, eipe oti to asylo einai asylo kai qa parameinei asylo. Kai meta, o k. Lykoyrentzos dieykrinise oti o k. Samaras den ennooyse plhrh katarghsh, ennooyse th mh katastrathghsh toy asyloy. Emeis exoyme sygkekrimenh qesh. Yparxei sygkekrimeno nomiko kai qesmiko plaisio. To qema einai na threitai kai na efarmozetai ayto to nomiko plaisio, giati ginetai mia syzhthsh, h opoia den exei na kanei me thn yparjh nomoy h oxi. O nomos yparxei, exei safestates prodiagrafes, exei proypoqeseis. To zhthma shmera einai na threitai aytos o nomos.

XIDIROGLOY: Piezei h kybernhsh, omws, otan symbainoyn paromoia fainomena, tis kata topoys prytanikes Arxes na kanoyn th doyleia toys; Giati ayto poy diagnwnoyme shmera einai mia aproqymia twn prytanikwn Arxwn na analaboyn tis eyqynes toys. To sxolio sas.

PETALWTHS: H ypoyrgos Paideias, apo to 2010 eixe zhthsei apo ola ta Anwtata Ekpaideytika Idrymata na kaqorisoyn sygkekrimena to xwro asyloy. Giati to asylo den einai mia genikh kai afhrhmenh ennoia. To asylo exei ena sygkekrimeno skopo, na prostateysei thn ereyna kai th didaskalia. Synepws, yparxoyn orismenoi kai sygkekrimenoi xwroi, opoy askoyntai aytes oi drasthriothtes. Kapoia Ekpaideytika Idrymata pragmatika orisan kai prosdiorisan toys xwroys toy asyloy kai kapoia oxi. Ena ap` ayta einai kai to Panepisthmio Aqhnwn. H k. Diamantopoyloy, oles aytes tis hmeres, eixe epafes me tis prytanikes Arxes toy Panepisthmioy ths Aqhnas. Xqes, malista, zhthse kai thn episkefqhke sto grafeio ths, sysswmo to Prytaniko Symboylio, gia na ejetasoyn apo konta to megisto ayto zhthma gia thn koinwnia mas. Safws, yparxei kai mia jekaqarh kai synexhs epafh ths kybernhshs me tis prytanikes Arxes oi opoies einai kai oi armodies na diapistwsoyn parabiash h mh toy asyloy. Yparxoyn sygkekrimenoi qesmoi, yparxoyn sygkekrimena oria, ta opoia den mporoyme na yperboyme. Ayto einai jekaqaro. O,ti perigrafei o nomos emeis to efarmozoyme. Apo ekei kai pera, oi ypeyqynoi kata to nomo exoyn kai tis eyqynes toys. Alla, epanalambanw oti gia emas to kyriarxo einai na lhjei me ton kalytero tropo ayth h katalhch toy xwroy ths Nomikhs kai fysika, gi` ayto merimna h kybernhsh.

XIDIROGLOY: Me sygxwreite. Den jerw an exete perasei prosfata apo to kentro ekei. Ean perasei kaneis shmera apo ta Propylaia, blepei antiskhna. Xqes, eblepe paratagmenoys metanastes ston pezodromo sto plai ths Nomikhs. Ayto poy qelw na sas rwthsw, ektos apo to qema ths aisqhtikhs, einai eikona ayth ths prwteyoysas ton teleytaio kairo; O xwros twn Propylaiwn einai ieros, toylaxiston kata th dikh moy apoch kai thn apoch pollwn anqrwpwn. Sas ikanopoiei, ws kybernhsh, ayth h eikona;

PETALWTHS: Den tiqetai qema aisqhtikhs, oyte qema ikanopoihshs ths kybernhshs. Yparxoyn nomoi, poy prepei na throyntai. Yparxei qesmoqethmenh diadikasia, wste na ejakribwnetai an parabiazetai h oxi to asylo, yparxoyn sygkekrimena organa poy exoyn eyqynes.

SPANOY: Kanete mia poly baria kataggelia, oti kapoioi ekmetalleyontai aytoys toys metanastes gia mikropolitikoys logoys, gia na prokalesoyn biaies entaseis. Mporeite na dieykrinisete poioys ennoeite; Ennoeite ton SYRIZA; Ennoeite ton antiejoysiastiko xwro; Poioys akribws fwtografizete;

PETALWTHS: Nomizw oti oloi parakoloyqoyme to ti diadramatizetai. Yparxei to metanasteytiko forum to opoio, oysiastika, kinei kai olh ayth thn istoria. Apo ekei kai pera, ontws, yparxoyn diaforoi oi opoioi, pragmatika, prospaqoyn na ekmetalleyqoyn thn asxhmh katastash twn metanastwn, oi opoioi feygoyn apo tis xwres toys gia na broyn mia kalyterh tyxh. Kai anejarthta apo ta anqrwpistika aisqhmata -poy den ta diaqetei mono mia merida sympolitwn mas, alla ta diaqetoyme oloi mas- kaneis den mporei na xrhsimopoiei aytoys toys anqrwpoys gia na paizei ta dika toy paixnidia. Ayto einai jekaqaro kai oi qeseis olwn twn politikwn dynamewn qa prepei na einai, epishs, jekaqares.

MOYRELATOS: Kyrie Ekproswpe, mporeite na mas dieykrinisete ta oria ths politikhs anoxhs ths kybernhshs; Giati katalabainoyme oti ayth th stigmh brisketai se ejelijh mia diadikasia diapragmateyshs, tropo tina. An den telesforhsei ayth h diadikasia, h kybernhsh protiqetai na parakoloyqei es aei ayth thn katastash sth Nomikh;

PETALWTHS: H kybernhsh den parakoloyqei. H kybernhsh efarmozei ton nomo. Apo th stigmh poy ayta ta atoma briskontai mesa sto xwro toy panepisthmioy, thn prwtoboylia thn exei pleon to idio to panepisthmio kai oi prytanikes Arxes exoyn dwsei mia sygkekrimenh dioria. Gnwrizoyme oti ayth th stigmh brisketai se ejelijh mia diapragmateysh, mesa ston xwro toy Panepisthmioy. Emeis eipame oti desmeyomaste na lhjei olh ayth h istoria me ton kalytero tropo. Kai gi' ayto akribws yparxoyn kai protaseis kai apo to Panepisthmio, alla kai apo mh kybernhtikes organwseis, na yparxei apoklimakwsh kai fysika ejodos aytwn twn anqrwpwn apo to Panepisthmio.

MOYRELATOS: An par' elpida, kyrie Ekproswpe, ayth h dioria lhjei kai den yparjei lysh, tote ti;

PETALWTHS: Nomizw oti qa prepei na mhn prokatabaloyme tis energeies, oyte toy Panepisthmioy, oyte ths Politeias kai na perimenoyme na teleiwsei ayth h istoria. Epanalambanw, omws, oti to idio to Panepisthmio exei dwsei dioria.

MOSXOBAS: Ef' oson bgoyn aytoi oi anqrwpoi, opws lete, ti qa ginoyn; Qa toys pate se kapoion xwro; Exete problecei kati; Asylo den prokeitai na paroyn ap' o,ti katalaba. Qa ekdiwxqoyn apo th xwra; Ti qa ginei;

PETALWTHS: Safws kai den qa paroyn asylo. Ej alloy, ej oswn gnwrizw, den zhtane asylo. Zhtane nomimopoihsh. Epanalambanoyme, omws gia allh mia fora, oti den yparxei periptwsh na nomimopoihqoyn atoma, xwris na exoyn tis aparaithtes kata ton nomo proypoqeseis. H teleytaia mazikh nomimopoihsh egine epi N.D. Den ginontai mazikes nomimopoihseis, xwris th syndromh twn aparaithtwn apo ton nomo proypoqesewn. Ws pros to ti qa ginoyn otan bgoyn, yparxei sygkekrimenh protash poy toys exei ginei. Opws eipa kai prohgoymenws, yparxoyn M.K.O., yparxei kai h Ekklhsia kai exoyn proteinei sygkekrimenoys xwroys, oytws wste na odhghqoyn, me asfaleia ekei, prokeimenoy na apoklimakwqei olh ayth h katastash kai na egkataleicoyn to Panepisthmio, sto opoio kakws briskontai.

MOSXOBAS: Kai na egkataleicoyn kai th xwra; Qa toys ekdiwjete meta apo ena mhna, otan lhjei ayth h istoria; Poia einai h proqesh ths kybernhshs erwtw.

PETALWTHS: Edw yparxei ena megalo zhthma metanasteytikhs politikhs kai moy dinei thn eykairia na pw oti gia prwth fora, meta apo adraneia para pollwn xronwn, yparxei sygkekrimenh, syntetagmenh metanasteytikh politikh. Exoyme tropopoihsei ton metanasteytiko nomo, etsi wste h Politeia na antimetwpizei -kai me ola ta symplhrwmata ta opoia syzhtame mexri shmera, to megalo ayto zhthma ths metanasteytikhs politikhs.

MOSXOBAS: Eipate oti yparxei nomos. Oi nomoi yparxoyn endexomenws kai gia na allazoyn h na tropopoioyntai h na beltiwnontai. Sth skech ths kybernhshs yparxei beltiwtikh protash toy qematos toy asyloy, gia na epanelqw sthn prwth erwthsh toy synadelfoy, meta ta osa eipe kai o ypatos politeiakos arxontas;

PETALWTHS: Epanalambanw, yparxei qesmiko kai nomiko plaisio. H diadikasia allaghs aytoy toy plaisioy einai gnwsth. Epanalambanw, to qema den einai oti den yparxei shmera swsto qesmiko plaisio. Ayto mporei na ejetasqei se mia allh periptwsh kai se allh xronikh fash. Ekeino to opoio qa prepei na doyme einai ean ayto to nomiko plaisio efarmozetai h oxi. Einai qema efarmoghs apo ta organa poy exoyn thn eyqynh na to ylopoioyn. Genikotera omws mporw -pera apo to asylo, ws pros tis kateyqynseis ths kybernhshs- na anaferqw stis dhlwseis poy ekane prin apo ligo, o k. Papoytshs, mazi me ton Gallo ypoyrgo Eswterikwn, o opoios anaferqhke leptomerws sto qema.

MOSXOBAS: Syggnwmh poy epimenw, alla o nomos qewreite pws einai swstos, ef' oson efarmostei me ton tropo poy prepei; Dhladh perilambanei to eyros toy asyloy ston baqmo poy eseis qa qelate h ypexei kapoiwn tropopoihsewn kata th gnwmh ths kybernhshs;

PETALWTHS: O nomos einai safhs kai jekaqaros. Eimaste edw na dexqoyme protaseis beltiwshs toy nomoy, alla edw den einai qema yparjhs h mh yparjhs nomoy. Einai kaqara qema efarmoghs toy.

MOSXOBAS: Ara, den apokleietai sto mellon, ef' oson yparjei mia protash me thn opoia na symfwneite, allagh toy nomoy gia to asylo.

PETALWTHS: Oi nomoi einai gia na tropopoioyntai, na beltiwnontai, na allazoyn. Alla epanalambanw oti den exei sxesh me th shmerinh katastash h allagh h oxi toy nomoy.

PITTARAS: Epeidh shmeiwsate oti h parempodish eisodoy einai kai katarghsh toy asyloy, den sas fobizei h ti qa kanete; Qa mporei kaqe koinwnikh omada poy antidra se kybernhtikes apofaseis na mpainei, pleon, mesa sta panepisthmia; Dhladh qa mporoyn na mpainoyn - me bash ayto poy lete eseis- oi farmakopoioi poy antidroyn twra sta metra poy exete parei h oi forthgatzhdes tote poy anoijate to epaggelma toys...

PETALWTHS: Mhn bazete idees kai exoyme katalhceis apo toys farmakopoioys...

PITTARAS: Nai. Ti qa kanete ekei; Qa perimenete tis prytanikes Arxes na apofasisoyn; Eseis ti qa kanete ws kybernhsh; Giati me to skeptiko ayto qa mporei na mpainei opoia koinwnikh omada qelei.

PETALWTHS: Prwta ap' ola den einai mia katastash h opoia yparxei twra h dhmioyrgeitai twra. Paromoies katastaseis exoyme zhsei kai isws einai kai apo tis liges fores poy yparxei mia sobarh antimetwpish kai mia synergasia, thn opoia epidiwkoyme amesa, me tis prytanikes Arxes. Ta zhthmata wrimazoyn, oi apoceis wrimazoyn kai einai kai mia eykairia kai oi prytanikes Arxes na epanaprosdiorisoyn kai ton rolo toys ws pros to qema toy asyloy kai na prosdiorisqei kai o xwros toy asyloy, epiteloys. Ef' oson pragmatika prosdiorisqei, opws eixe zhthsei h ypoyrgos Paideias apo to 2010, o xwros asyloy, ta pragmata qa einai kai pio jekaqara.

SIDERHS: H Ellada ekane ena strathgiko laqos sto qema twn laqrometanastwn kai fernei thn ypografh toy nyn Prwqypoyrgoy: Ypegrace thn ``Doyblino 2''. Epeidh wspoy na allajei h ``Doyblino 2'' qa exoyn ginei alloi tosoi osoi oi Ellhnes edw mesa, giati den parakamptetai thn ``Doyblino 2'' kanontas ayto poy sas leei h Aristera; Na toys dwsete diabathria kai na fygoyn pros thn Eyrwph, afoy oytws h allws edw qa meinoyn kai exoyme 50.000 kainoyrgioys kaqe xrono. Nai men h apotroph me to teixos kai ola ayta, alla aytoi poy qa meinoyn edw prepei na diaskorpisqoyn mesa sthn Eyrwpaikh Enwsh. Kai o monos tropos gia na to kanete einai h lysh poy sas dinei h Aristera.

PETALWTHS: Poy einai, poia akribws; Na dwsoyme diabathria se oloys toys metanastes nomimoys kai paranomoys;

SIDERHS: Bebaiws. Anagkastika, aytoi qeloyn na pernane apo edw kai qeloyn na pane sthn Eyrwph. Qa katsoyn edw oso toys exoyme s' ayto to kaqestws. Oyte toys apelaynoyme, giati den mporoyme na toys apelasoyme, den exoyn kai xartia, ta exoyn skisei, den jeroyme poy na toys apelasoyme, opote qa prepei na broyme...

PETALWTHS: H katastash einai gnwsth. Alla opoios thn kanei thn protash...

SIDERHS: Aytoi hrqan ws perastikoi apo edw kai qeloyn na fygoyn.

PETALWTHS: Malista. Epeidh, loipon, den protiqemeqa na kanoyme thn xwra mas etsi opws proteinoyn kapoioi, poy den apodexontai tis symbatikes ths ypoxrewseis kai den jerw se poia Aristera anafereste, alla an kapoios pisteyei oti einai toso eykolo na toys dwsoyme diabathria na fygoyn gia thn Eyrwph, xwris na exoyme alles synepeies, zei ektos topoy kai xronoy. Kai pragmatika, h Aristera ean zei ektos topoy kai xronoy, den einai Aristera. Opoia ki an einai ayth.

KOYTRAS: Eipate prin oti oi prytanikes Arxes exoyn dwsei dioria stoys metanastes- telos pantwn- h stis epitropes poy einai ekei. H kybernhsh exei dwsei dioria stis prytanikes Arxes;

PETALWTHS: Oi prytanikes Arxes den kanoyn katalhch toy asyloy gia na paroyn dioria apo thn kybernhsh. H kybernhsh, apo thn prwth stigmh, se oles tis synomilies kai tis synennohseis poy exei me tis prytanikes Arxes, anaferei kai dhlwnei aperifrasta oti prepei na thrhqei o nomos. Ayto einai jekaqaro kai oxi epeidh einai parotrynsh h qema diorias ths kybernhshs, alla epeidh oi nomoi prepei na efarmozontai kai poly perissotero, na efarmozontai ap` aytoys stoys opoioys h Politeia exei anaqesei kai enan rolo epayjhmeno, na throyn toys nomoys mesa apo diapistwsh sygkekrimenwn proypoqesewn.

KOYTRAS: Sth sygkekrimenh periptwsh, threitai o nomos;

PETALWTHS: Sth sygkekrimenh periptwsh briskomaste se mia xronikh fash, opoy yparxoyn protaseis apo tis M.K.O., thn Ekklhsia kai to Prytaniko Symboylio kai s` aytes tis...

KOYTRAS: Oxi, oxi, den lew gia tis protaseis. Gia to nomo lew egw. O nomos threitai;

PETALWTHS: Ayto qelw na sas pw: Kai s` aytes tis protaseis qa yparxei apanthsh. Poy shmainei oti o nomos ylopoieitai, bebaiws, efoson yparxei diapistwsh apo tis prytanikes Arxes oti yparxei kai katarghsh toy asyloy kai prosklhsh.

KOYTRAS: Eipate oti epiqymeite thn kalyterh lysh. Poia einai h kalyterh lysh sth sygkekrimenh periptwsh;

PETALWTHS: H kalyterh lysh einai na mhn yparxei entash, na yparxei ejodos apo to panepisthmio kai apo ekei kai pera, na akoloyqhsoyn thn tyxh poy toys epifylassei me toys nomoys ths, h ellhnikh Politeia. Ws pros thn efarmogh h oxi toy nomoy, h ellhnikh kybernhsh den einai armodia na mporei na diagnwsei ean yparxei efarmogh toy nomoy h oxi apo tis prytanikes Arxes. Armodia einai h dikastikh ejoysia kai ap` oso gnwrizoyme hdh to exei kanei. O Eisaggeleas toy Areioy Pagoy, k. Tentes, kalese xqes ton Prytanh kai shmera egine h metajy toys synanthsh kai fysika h Dikaiosynh qa kanei to kaqhkon ths.

KOYTRAS: Epitrecte moy kai kati allo. Ean fygoyn aytoi oi anqrwpoi kai metaferqoyn se kapoio allo oikhma, se kapoio allo xwro, den metaferetai aplws to problhma;

PETALWTHS: Poio einai to problhma;

KOYTRAS: Oti aytoi oi anqrwpoi zhtoyn nomimopoihsh, zhtoyn asylo, qa pane na meinoyn kapoy alloy...

PETALWTHS: Exoyme jekaqarisei oti mazikh nomimopoihsh den prokeitai na ginei. To problhma, ayth th stigmh, einai oti yparxei katalhch toy panepisthmiakoy xwroy apo sygkekrimenoys anqrwpoys. Kai ayto to sygkekrimeno problhma prepei na lyqei twra. Me ekbiasmoys, omws kai me biaies katastaseis h ellhnikh Politeia den energei. Ayto einai jekaqaro.

XASAPOPOYLOS: Ean teleiwsei to telesigrafo poy exei qesei h kybernhsh...

PETALWTHS: To Panepisthmio.

XASAPOPOYLOS: Nai. Kai ean o Eisaggeleas zhthsei thn parembash ths astynomias, ti qa ginei;

PETALWTHS: Oi nomoi einai nomoi. Yparxoyn sygkekrimenes faseis oi opoies perigrafontai apo ton nomo kai ennoeitai oti qa efarmostoyn. Sas epanalambanw oti o k. Papoytshs proebh prin apo ligo se sygkekrimenes analytikes dhlwseis gia to qema ayto. Emeis zhtame thn efarmogh twn nomwn.

XASAPOPOYLOS: Syggnwmh, gia na mpei mesa h astynomia, xreiazetai mia apofash apo thn Epitroph toy Asyloy, apo tis prytanikes Arxes. Ean o Eisaggeleas diatajei thn astynomia na mpei mesa, xwris na yparxoyn aytes oi apofaseis, qa mpei h astynomia;

PETALWTHS: O Eisaggeleas qa prepei na prosklhqei apo to prytaniko Symboylio gia na parembei. Gi' ayto sas lew, yparxei mia sygkekrimenh diadikasia, alla s' ayth th xronikh fash as mhn prokatalaboyme tis energeies poy ginontai h qa ginoyn.

XASAPOPOYLOS: Pantws - me sygxwreite kiolas- ws enallaktiko senario, h kybernhsh exei ejetasei to endexomeno meta, ef' oson akoloyqhqoyn oles aytes oi diadikasies, na mpei mesa h astynomia;

PETALWTHS: Einai jekaqaro oti katalysh toy asyloy den prokeitai na ginei. Efarmozoyme ton nomo se ola ta epipeda. Apo ekei kai pera, to pws ejelissetai h apoklimakwsh ths katastashs poy yparxei shmera, einai qema to opoio to antimetwpizoyme analoga me tis ejelijeis. Kai ayth th stigmh, yparxei syzhthsh gia na bgoyn apo ton panepisthmiako xwro.

SIDERHS: Mia erwthsh, poy isws fanei shmasiologikh, alla den einai. Aytoi oi anqrwpoi mphkan laqraia. Giati toys lete ``metanastes'' kai toys ejomoiwnete me ekeinoys toys metanastes poy sebasthkan tis diadikasies toy ellhnikoy kratoys kai hrqan me biza; Den einai san na apajiwnete tis diadikasies toy ellhnikoy kratoys, xarakthrizontas ki aytoys ``metanastes'' sketa;

PETALWTHS: Oi metanastes einai metanastes antikeimenika. Feygoyn apo th xwra toys kai metanasteyoyn. Yparxoyn oi nomimoi kai oi paranomoi metanastes.

SIDERHS: Ayto rwtaw. Giati den toys prosdiorizete ws laqraioys;

PETALWTHS: Giati; Yparxei problhma ws pros ayto;

SIDERHS: Bebaiws. Ideologikhs fortishs megalhs.

PETALWTHS: Gnwrizete oti kata th nomikh orologia onomazontai ``laqra eiserxomenoi metanastes'', alla na mhn toys katonomazoyme etsi sto plaisio ths enhmerwshs, ektos ki an protimate etsi na toys anaferoyme gia na eimaste leptomereiakoi. Einai safes oti aytoi oi metanastes gia toys opoioys den yparxei kai elegxos den einai nomimoi. Ayto einai jekaqaro. Kai etsi antimetwpizontai.

XIDIROGLOY: Se ena allo qema: Xqes, enhmerwqhkame gia th metabash toy Antiproedroy ths Kybernhshs k. Qeodwroy Pagkaloy sth Boylgaria, prokeimenoy na parastei sta egkainia mias ellhnikhs biomhxanikhs monadas, profanws neas, sto Santansk ths Boylgarias. Egw hqela na rwthsw to ejhs: Se mia epoxh poy h anergia sthn Ellada qerizei, shmeiwnw edw oti yparxoyn perioxes ths xwras opoy h anergia exei yperbei akomh kai to 30%, poia einai h skopimothta ths metabashs toy Antiproedroy ths Kybernhsews sth Boylgaria gia na parastei sta egkainia; Mhpws enqarrynoyme kat' ayton ton tropo opoioysdhpote 'Ellhnes epixeirhmaties epiqymoyn na metaferoyn tis drasthriothtes toys sto ejwteriko; Ayto exei tromero koinwniko kostos. To sxolio sas.

PETALWTHS: Prwta ap' ola, h periodos opoy oi 'Ellhnes epixeirhmaties metaferoyn tis drasthriothtes toys sto ejwteriko, den einai h shmerinh periodos. Einai h parelqoysa periodos kai den anaferomai monon kata th diakybernhsh ths N.D. Giati yphrxe ena montelo anaptyjhs to opoio den htan ejorqologismeno kai malista ginotan kai me kinhtra ths ellhnikhs Politeias, ta opoia, bebaia, eixan kapoia aitiologhsh. Oti, dhladh, anoigan jenes drasthriothtes se nees xwres kyriws ths anatolikhs Eyrwphs kai qa eprepe na yparxei kai ellhnikh paroysia. To lew aploysteytika, alla etsi htan. Apo ekei kai pera, qa prepei na baloyme kai mia allh parametro, oti polles ap' aytes tis etaireies poy briskontan sto ejwteriko, sthrizan kai akomh kai kapoies sthrizoyn kai thn egxwria leitoyrgia twn edw yparxoyswn epixeirhsewn toys. Omws, to na anaferomaste apospasmatika sth metabash toy Antiproedroy h kapoioy alloy kybernhtikoy paragonta se kapoia epixeirhsh, adikei ayto poy kanei h kybernhsh ean to apomonwsoyme. H kybernhsh me poly shmantiko tropo kai mesa apo sygkekrimenes energeies, opws einai o neos ependytikos nomos, dinei to stigma gia to pws blepei thn ygih epixeirhmatikothta. Primodotei me ena neo tropo kai me nea krithria, pisteyontas se ena allo montelo anaptyjhs, makria apo tis akarpes epidothseis toy parelqontos. Kai mesa apo sygkekrimenes foroapallages kai stoxeymenh ejyphrethsh twn epixeirhmatiwn prowqei thn epixeirhmatikothta genikws. Safws h kateyqynsh einai ayth poy sas periegraca. 'Ara, to na apomonwnoyme ena gegonos, pisteyw oti adikei olh ayth thn politikh ths kybernhshs.

XIDIROGLOY: Ep' aytoy epanalambanw oti yparxoyn perioxes ths xwras -opws h Dytikh Makedonia, kyrie Ekproswpe- oi opoies ypoferoyn apo problhma anergias terastio. Yparxei, ayth th stigmh poy milame, mia arxh ejodoy newn Ellhnwn, oi opoioi anazhtoyn doyleia sto ejwteriko. Den qa eprepe ap' olh thn proteraiothta ths kybernhshs, oson afora thn anaptyjh kai to epixeirein, na parameinoyn me kaqe kostos oi ellhnikes epixeirhseis kai dh na egkatasthsoyn tis drasthriothtes toys se perioxes opoy yparxei ayjhmenh anergia;

PETALWTHS: Bebaiws. Ma, ayto kanei h kybernhsh gia thn katapolemhsh ths anergias. To gnwrizoyme. Kai oyte dhmioyrghqhke twra h anergia. H anergia yphrxe. H apobiomhxanish yparxei edw kai arketa xronia kai malista se periodoys poy den yphrxe h krish, thn opoia biwnoyme. Alla emeis phgainame eite aqwrakistoi eite epidotwntas sygkekrimenoys filoys, koymparoys kai gnwstoys, eidika me mia politikh ths N.D. h opoia htan isopedwtikh ws pros thn epixeirhmatikothta, xwris krithria. Antiqetws, twra emeis bazoyme tajh. Dinoyme pnoh sthn ygih epixeirhmatikothta. Kai fysika, aytos o stoxos mas den allazei apo mia metabash h apo mia episkech. Prospaqoyme na ylopoihsoyme topika oloklhrwmena programmata se sygkekrimenes perioxes ths xwras mas, etsi wste na mhn exoyme aplws orizonties draseis toy OAED h kapoiwn ypoyrgeiwn, oi opoies den eixan kai to apotelesma poy eprepe na exoyn. Kanoyme ton OAED, pragmatika, ergaleio mesa apo sygkekrimena programmata. Ta topika oloklhrwmena programmata einai ayta poy diamorfwnei h idia h topikh koinwnia se sygkekrimenes perioxes poy exoyn megalo problhma kai arxizoyn twra na ylopoioyntai. Synepws, h kybernhsh exei hdh kanei polla pros ayth thn kateyqynsh kai qa synexisei na kanei poly perissotera. Aytos einai o stoxos kai aytos einai o prosanatolismos ths.

MOSXOBAS: Qa hqela ena sxolio apo thn kybernhsh gia to xqesino epeisodio kata toy prwhn Prwqypoyrgoy toy k. Shmith.

PETALWTHS: O idios o Prwqypoyrgos, xqes, sthn Koinoboyleytikh Omada, alla kai alles fores exei akribws ekdhlwsei thn agwnia toy oti apajiwnetai h politikh. Kati poy qa prepei oi idioi oi politikoi, emeis dhladh prwta ap' ola, na doyme mesa apo th leitoyrgia ths politikhs kai thn isxyropoihsh qesmwn ekeinoys toys tropoys poy qa stamathsoyn ayth thn apajiwsh, etsi wste na bgoyme ap' ayth thn krish. Einai safes kai jekaqaro oti opoiadhpote prajh bias - kai h bia exei polles ennoies, akomh kai frastikh- einai jenh pros ta hqh toy ellhnikoy laoy kai kaqe allo para bohqa pros thn kateyqynsh toy jeperasmatos ths krishs kai ths enisxyshs kai twn qesmwn, alla kai enos sygkekrimenoy klimatos, etsi wste h xwra mas na paei mprosta. Qa prepei ta pragmata na ta blepoyme apo thn orqh toys pleyra, apo to swsto toys prisma kai na mhn proswpopoieitai ayth h ypotiqemenh orgh h aganakthsh kapoiwn me tetoioy eidoys energeies, oi opoies einai aparadektes kai kaqe allo para symballoyn sthn anycwsh kai thn ejycwsh toy epipedoy toy 'Ellhna polith. Akribws to antiqeto katafernoyn. Isopedwnoyn kai kaqe allo para bohqoyn sthn kateyqynsh poy anefera prohgoymenws.

MOSXOBAS: Kai kati allo akomh. Sthn arxikh topoqethsh sas anaferqhkate sthn apanthtikh epistolh ths Siemens pros ton ypoyrgo Epikrateias ton k. Pampoykh kai di' aytoy sthn kybernhsh. Sthn epistolh ayth, ap' o,ti diabasame, h Siemens, o ekproswpos ths edw, toylaxiston, leei oti den exei alla stoixeia na syneisferei sto ergo ths proanakritikhs Epitrophs ths Boylhs. Yparxei kati poy eixate sto noy sas; Giati zhthsate epipleon stoixeia; Ti parapanw perimenete;

PETALWTHS: Emeis, prwta ap' ola, qeloyme na ejantlhsoyme kaqe periqwrio na antlhqoyn stoixeia apo th Siemens eite apo th qygatrikh sthn Ellada, eite apo th mhtrikh etaireia, etsi wste na employtisqei to yliko poy exoyme kai na bohqhqoyn oi opoies Arxes na entopisoyn ta adikhmata ths forodiafyghs, alla kai gia na exoyme stoixeia gia thn apokatastash ths zhmias, thn opoia ypesth to ellhniko Dhmosio. Yparxoyn polla periqwria. Na ypenqymisw, omws, oti ayth h epistolh poy steilame sth Siemens einai aplws ena symplhrwma ths sklhrhs doyleias poy ginetai mexri twra apo thn kybernhsh, afoy, oytws h allws, mia seira apo energeies tis exei kanei h kybernhsh. Dhladh, yparxoyn ta prostima ths Epitrophs Antagwnismoy, ta opoia qa epiblhqoyn ef' oson kriqei oti yphrxe aqemitos antagwnismos. Kai einai gnwsto oti opoy yparxei dwrodokia, o antagwnismos einai aqemitos. Ekkremoyn, epishs, oi agwges twn Organismwn stoys opoioys metexei to ellhniko Dhmosio, opws einai o OSE kai o OTE kai oi opoioi exoyn ypostei blabh ap' ayth thn parabatikh symperifora, h opoia epedeixqh. Kai fysika, diereynatai h dynatothta askhshs agwghs apo to ellhniko Dhmosio gia xrhmatikh ikanopoihsh logw hqikhs blabhs gia thn zhmia poy ypesth apo th diadikasia twn dwrodokiwn ths etaireias ayths. Ara, hdh, exoyme ena paketo apokatastashs ths zhmias toy Dhmosioy se ola ta epipeda. Kai oxi monon ayto. Yparxei kai ena poly megalo yliko to opoio exei syllegei apo thn Ejetastikh Epitroph ths Boylhs, alla kai apo ta Dikasthria ths Germanias me ta praktika poy exoyn thrhqei, etsi wste ayto to yliko kai o,ti allo yparxei apo th Siemens na apotelesei bash gia thn apokatastash ths zhmias poy ypesth to ellhniko Dhmosio.

XIDIROGLOY: Enhmerwqhkame prosfata gia mia apofash ths ypoyrgoy Paideias poy afora sthn anaklhsh megaloy ariqmoy Ellhnwn ekpaideytikwn, kyriws apo thn Aystralia. Na sas ypenqymisw - eimai sigoyros oti to jerete- pws yparxei enas poly megalos ariqmos Ellhnwn sthn Aystralia, oi opoioi ejartwntai apolyta apo toys Ellhnes ekpaideytikoys, oson afora thn ellhnikh paideia twn paidiwn toys. Ayth einai mia apofash h opoia plhttei kairia thn Omogeneia mas. Kai den einai h prwth. 'Exoyn prohghqei kai alles. Anarwtiemai polles fores, kyrie Ekproswpe, poia einai h politikh sas enanti ths Omogeneias, otan lambanontai apofaseis, oi opoies sthn oysia strefontai enantion oysiastika ths poiothtas zwhs ths.

PETALWTHS: Ayto einai ena megalo zhthma poy afora stis draseis toy ypoyrgeioy Paideias, opoy kai qa mporoyse na sas apanthsei leptomereiaka, ep` aytoy, giati h ekpaideysh twn omogenwn einai ena megalo zhthma. Qa sas pw omws ayta poy exw kai ws idia antilhch:

H ekpaideysh sthn Omogeneia jekinhse edw kai para polles 10eties me tis synqhkes poy yphrxan tote. Prwton, oi synqhkes exoyn allajei. Synepws, yparxei anagkh ejorqologismoy ths omogeneiakhs ekpaideyshs -ayto einai jekaqaro- prokeimenoy ta paidia twn omogenwn na exoyn thn kalyterh ekpaideysh ston xwro opoy diamenoyn ta idia kai oi goneis toys. Apo ekei kai pera, yphrxan stoixeia ta opoia moy eteqhsan yp' ocin se episkeceis moy sth Germania, giati kai sth Germania yparxoyn antistoixa zhthmata, opoy polloi ekpaideytikoi briskontan se qeseis, oi opoies den eprepe na yparxoyn. O ejorqologismos, to symmazema kai h anakatatajh stis proteraiothtes ths omogeneiakhs ekpaideyshs, einai ena apo ta zhthmata poy antimetwpizei to ypoyrgeio Paideias. Kai to antimetwpizei me ton kalytero tropo. Den yparxei periptwsh na lhfqei apofash apo to ypoyrgeio Paideias poy na plhttei thn omogeneiakh ekpaideysh. Yparxoyn periqwria syzhthsewn. Otidhpote ginetai, ginetai meta apo stoxeymenes apofaseis poy lambanoyn yp' ocin mia seira apo proypoqeseis, oi opoies den mporei na yperaploysteyontai panw se mia logikh thn opoia exoyme oloi mas, oti h Omogeneia prepei kai dikaioytai na exei thn ekpaideysh ths. Alla oi paragontes kai oi parametroi einai para polloi kai safestata to ypoyrgeio Paideias lambanei yp' ocin aytes tis parametroys.

KOYTRAS: Briskomaste sthn telikh eyqeia gia thn anadiarqrwsh toy ellhnikoy xreoys; Giati oi shmerines dhlwseis, ap` oles tis pleyres, einai para polles.

PETALWTHS: Apo poies pleyres;

KOYTRAS: Apo ton k. Gkoyria, apo Germanoys empeirognwmones, oikonomologoys...

PETALWTHS: Epi 15 mhnes, kaqe hmera yparxoyn dekades dhlwseis gia thn ellhnikh oikonomia. Dhlwseis oi opoies den anaferontan sthn anadiarqrwsh, alla sthn ptwxeysh. Parola ayta, opws apodeiknyoyme, oxi mono den ptwxeysame, alla dhmioyrgoyme kai prooptikh gia thn ejodo apo thn krish. Me bash ayto, emeis apokleioyme thn anadiarqrwsh toy xreoys. H monh syzhthsh sthn opoia symmetexoyme, einai h epimhkynsh ths apoplhrwmhs toy daneioy twn 110 dis eyrw kai mono.

Sas eyxaristw.

Kalo apogeyma. --1427249692-1671977874-1296169414=:4523--

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