Greek Government Press Briefing, 10-09-22

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From: The Hellenic Ministry of Press & Mass Media <http://www.minpress.gr/>

Tmhma Dhmosiografikwn Kalycewn

Tetarth, 22 Septembrioy 2010

Ariqmos Deltioy: 290593322

Ekdosh 1

BRIEFING(220910)

KYBERNHTIKOS EKPROSWPOS

Aqhna, 22 Septembrioy 2010

GIWRGO PETALWTH

Kalo meshmeri.

Chfizetai shmera sth Boylh to nomosxedio gia thn eleyqerh prosbash sto epaggelma twn odikwn metaforwn. Einai to prwto anoigma kleistoy epaggelmatos sth xwra mas, enw, opws gnwrizoyme, qa akoloyqhsoyn kai ta ypoloipa, wste epiteloys, na pacei na yparxei sth xwra mas ayth h anaxronistikh taktikh twn antallagwn adeiwn, alla kai oles oi paqogeneies poy fernoyn mazi toys ta kleista epaggelmata.

O stoxos ths kybernhshs einai o ejorqologismos, o eksygxronismos toy kladoy, h apeleyqerwsh toy komistroy pros ofelos toy Ellhna katanalwth, me thn eleyqerh prosbash sto epaggelma se opoion to epiqymei me tropo diafanh, dikaio kai jekaqaro kai oxi opws ginetai mexri shmera. Einai zhthma koinwnikhs dikaiosynhs.

Apodeiknyoyme sthn prajh kai oxi sta logia oti h Ellada payei na einai anoxyrwth politeia kai pernaei se mia fash diafaneias kai koinwnikhs logodosias olwn. Einai gnwsto se oloys oti h eleyqerh eisodos sto epaggelma einai katoxyrwmenh se oles tis xwres ths Eyrwpaikhs Enwshs, edw kai polla xronia. Edw, akomh paleyoyme gia to aytonohto. To aytonohto dhmokratiko dikaiwma toy polith, na mporei na diasfalizei thn ergasia toy mesa apo ena diafanes, dikaio, sygxrono kai jekaqaro plaisio.

Ayta, loipon, ta afhnoyme sto parelqon me to nomosxedio to opoio problepei epishs tis aparaithtes diarqrwtikes allages poy kaqistoyn symbates tis metafores me to plaisio allwn xwrwn. Oi allages aytes qa katasthsoyn tis ellhnikes metafores biwsimes, antagwnistikes kai sygxrones.

O dialogos poy prohghqhke, diamorfwse sygkekrimenes protaseis gia anaptyjiaka kinhtra, aposbestikes forologikes ryqmiseis, prokeimenoy na ejasfalistei h omalh metabash sth nea pragmatikothta. Diasfalizoyme sygxronws, se ena metabatiko epipedo trietias, toys hdh epaggelmaties idiokthtes forthgwn, etsi wste na exoyn th dynatothta na prosarmosoyn kai tis epaggelmatikes toys ypoxrewseis.

Parakalw tis erwthseis sas.

XIDIROGLOY: Kyrie Ekproswpe, mhpws to anoigma toy epaggelmatos kai to anoigma toy epaggelmatos sygkekrimena sto opoio anafereste, kai to anoigma genikotera twn kleistwn epaggelmatwn, qa metatrecei eleyqeroys epaggelmaties se ypallhloys megalwn etaireiwn;

PETALWTHS: Qetoyme ena tetoio plaisio poy na diasfalizei akribws thn antagwnistikothta, th biwsimothta, alla kai to ofelos toy Ellhna katanalwth. Den qa metatrapoyn osoi ergazontai se ayta ta epaggelmata, ta opoia qa anoijoyn, se ypallhloys kapoiwn. Emeis to blepoyme qetika. Diasfalizoyme ta qetika shmeia kai pername se mia nea epoxh, prokeimenoy epiteloys na pacoyn na yparxoyn aytes oi paqogeneies poy anhkoyn se prohgoymenes dekaeties. Apo ekei kai pera, fysika, den afhnoyme thn agora asydoth. Qetoyme kai toys oroys, etsi wste na yparxei ena qesmiko plaisio, to opoio qa einai kai pros ofelos twn ergazomenwn se aytoys toys kladoys poy ``anoigoyn'', alla na einai kai pros ofelos, en telei, toy Ellhna polith. Kai ayto to diasfalizoyme.

MIXAHL: Prin apo ligo sth Boylh chfisthke epi ths arxhs to nomosxedio. Wstoso, oi syndikalistes kai oi idiokthtes twn forthgwn synexizoyn tis diamartyries. Malista, lene oti kai meta thn typikh chfish sto synolo toy, den prokeitai na stamathsoyn tis kinhtopoihseis kai me diaforoys tropoys qa synexisoyn. H kybernhsh ti qa kanei gia na diasfalisei thn plhrh eleyqerh metakinhsh kai twn politwn, alla kai twn agaqwn;

PETALWTHS: Prwta apo ola, emeis eimaste apofasismenoi. Ayth thn apofasistikothta poy deixnei h ellhnikh kybernhsh se ola ta megala zhthmata, th deixnei kai se ayto to qema. Deyteron, as mhn yperballoyme, as mh megalopoioyme tis katastaseis. Exoyn dikaiwma na diamartyrontai osoi pisteyoyn oti den eynooyntai apo ena sygkekrimeno qesmiko plaisio, se opoiodhpote tomea, alla ayth th stigmh, yparxei anempodisth kykloforia proswpwn, agaqwn kai den blepoyme na yparxoyn alla problhmata.

MIXAHL: To kentro ths Aqhnas, h kentrikh lewforos ths Aqhnas, h lewforos Amalias, entelws jafnika ekleise...

PETALWTHS: Einai h prwth fora poy to antimetwpizoyme ayto;

MIXAHL: Oxi, omws to lew oti aytoi oi idioi dhlwnoyn oti qa synexisoyn tetoioy eidoys morfes.

PETALWTHS: To ti dhlwnei kaqenas, einai dikaiwma toy. Mas endiaferei na perasei ayth h megalh allagh mesa apo to sygkekrimeno nomoqetiko plaisio. Yparxei organwmenh Politeia. Diasfalizoyme, kai ayto kaname oles aytes tis hmeres kai ayto qa kanoyme kai apo edw kai pera, thn anempodisth kykloforia proswpwn, proiontwn sthn agora. Synepws, h Politeia kanei th doyleia ths kai malista me ton kalytero tropo.

XASAPOPOYLOS: Kyrie Ypoyrge sas kathgoroyn sth kybernhsh oti deixnete anoxh panw se tetoia fainomena. Dhladh, se ligo kleinoyn h eqnikh odos Aqhnwn - Kabalas kai sthn Eleysina, alla kai Aqhnwn - Lamias. Dhladh, ews poy qa synexistei ayth h katastash;

PETALWTHS: Emeis deixnoyme mia apofasistikothta kai sygxronws cyxraimia. Zygizoyme ta pragmata, isorropoyme, etsi wste to dhmosio symferon na qerapeyetai me ton kalytero tropo. Einai poly sygkekrimenes oi kinhseis mas. Eimaste apofasismenoi, kai fanhke kai shmera kai me thn chfish toy nomosxedioy, alla kai olh th diaxeirish toy zhthmatos apo thn ellhnikh Politeia. Den sterhsan apo ton Ellhna polith thn anempodisth kykloforia toy, alla kyriws den toy sterhsan ta proionta ths agoras. Kai ayto qa synexistei, fysika, oso yparxei qema. Alla me thn chfish toy nomosxedioy, ennoeitai, teleiwnoyn kai ola ta zhthmata.

XASAPOPOYLOS: Ti ennoeite, dhladh, teleiwnoyn ola ta zhthmata;

PETALWTHS: Qa einai nomos toy kratoys kai ofeiloyme oloi mas na sebomaste toys nomoys toy kratoys. Kai malista otan exei prohghqei dialogos, otan exei prohghqei h apaitoymenh diaboyleysh kai otan oloi gnwrizoyme oti den mporoyme na ginomaste omhroi kamias epaggelmatikhs omadas, anejarthta apo to ti apoch exei kaqenas. Ayto einai dhlwmeno, ekfrasmeno kai apofasismeno apo thn ellhnikh kybernhsh.

XASAPOPOYLOS: Dhladh, ean chfistei to nomosxedio, meta h kybernhsh qa efarmosei to nomo; Ayto mas lete twra, perimenete na chfistei to nomosxedio kai meta qa efarmostei o nomos;

PETALWTHS: Den nomizw oti yparxei allh epilogh. Gia ayto chfizontai ta nomosxedia, gia na efarmozontai.

XASAPOPOYLOS: Oxi gia to nomosxedio, gia na efarmosete to nomo gia thn parakwlysh sygkoinwniwn.

PETALWTHS: O nomos efarmozetai oytws h allws. Den yparxoyn magikes syntages. Yparxei cyxraimia kai apofasistikothta. Kai ayto h ellhnikh kybernhsh to kanei me ton deonta tropo.

XASAPOPOYLOS: Kyrie Ypoyrge, me sygxwreite kai zhtw syggnwmh apo toys synadelfoys: otan mia omada epaggelmatiwn, eite apergwn, eite poy kanoyn kinhtopoihseis, monoi toys kleinoyn toys dromoys...

PETALWTHS: Ayto dystyxws ginetai sthn Ellada kai ginetai me ena tropo, o opoios den ejyphretei to dhmosio symferon. Apo ekei kai pera, ayth h proseggish nomizw oti adikei th megalh allagh thn opoia kanoyme. Kai fysika ayto einai ena qema pros skech olwn mas. Alla den ginetai kati diaforetiko. H mexri twra diaxeirish htan aristh.

MOYRELATOS: Kyrie Ekproswpe, ola kala ayta, alla edw exoyme mia diafora. Exoyme th dedhlwmenh boylhsh twn anqrwpwn aytwn poy kinhtopoioyntai edw kai hmeres, na klimakwsoyn tis kinhtopoihseis toys. Klimakwsh gi` aytoys, opws to exoyn dhmosia edw kai polles hmeres, shmainei kai kleisimo twn dromwn pleon, oxi ayto to motibo poy eixame tis prohgoymenes deka hmeres. Apenanti se ayth thn prooptikh, h kybernhsh protassei to synqhma ``apofasistikothta kai cyxraimia''; Kai ti shmainei ayto praktika; Yparxei ena sxedio diaxeirishs;

PETALWTHS: To ti dhlwnei kaqenas einai dikaiwma toy. Omws, panw apo th boylhsh ths Politeias, kai malista se qemata poy ejyphretoyn to dhmosio symferon kai to symferon toy Ellhna polith, kaneis den mporei na bazei tis dhlwseis toy, oyte th boylhsh toy. Sas apanthsa oti h apofasistikothta kai h cyxraimia mas odhghsan mexri edw kai qa mas odhghsoyn kai me ta senaria ta opoia anaferate.

KOYTRAS: To nomosxedio einai nomos toy kratoys. An ayrio oi odhgoi kai oi idiokthtes forthgwn kleisoyn toys dromoys, qa to anextei h kybernhsh;

PETALWTHS: Den apantame se ypoqetika senaria. Sas eipa oti eimaste apofasismenoi. Yparxei kratos, yparxei Politeia kai yparxei kai ekfrasmenh dhlwsh kai boylhsh ths kybernhshs oti kaneis den mporei na krataei omhroys toys Ellhnes polites. Alla, ayto mexri stigmhs den exei ginei.

TSAKIRHS: Qa hqela ena sxolio gia to oti opws sas kathgorei h N.D. h ``prasinh polykatoikia'' apofasise na klhqei o k. Karamanlhs sthn ejetastikh sth Boylh.

PETALWTHS: Pisteyw oti einai aney sxolioy. H N.D. exei apodeijei kata koron oti den sebetai toys qesmoys. Exei apodeijei oti, otan den mporei na ta bgalei pera, drapeteyei apo th Boylh. Eixame to pagkosmio fainomeno na apodra h koinoboyleytikh pleiochfia apo th Boylh, otan eprepe na syzhthqei to megalo skandalo toy Batopedioy. Blepoyme th N.D. na amfisbhtei akomh kai shmera oti yphrxe skandalo kai zhmia toy dhmosioy, otan xarize tis terasties perioysies toy ellhnikoy laoy sth Monh Batopedioy. Ara, o,ti kai na pei shmera einai ligotero ap` ayta poy exei kanei.

TSAKIRHS: Sas ikanopoiei, dhladh, h eikona poy klhqhke enas prwhn prwqypoyrgos na kataqesei, exontas kai thn pikrh empeiria sto parelqon enos Eidikoy Dikasthrioy me ton Andrea Papandreoy;

PETALWTHS: Prwta ap` ola, h proanakritikh epitroph den einai Eidiko Dikasthrio. Deyteron, ean den klhteyontai se aytes tis epitropes, poy einai apofash ths epitrophs kai mono, osoi mporoyn na bohqhsoyn sth diereynhsh ths alhqeias, tote milame gia sygkalych. Me ayta ta dedomena kai me ena sygkekrimeno skeptiko kai aitiologiko, h proanakritikh epitroph gia to Batopedi apofasise th sygkekrimenh klhteysh. Apo to na sygkalyptoyme, einai kalytero na yparxei h tajh kai h ekfrasmenh nomimothta mesa apo aytes tis epitropes. Einai safestato.

TSAKIRHS: Dhladh, na ypoqesoyme oti an klhqei kai o k. Shmiths gia thn ypoqesh ths Siemens, eseis qa to dexqeite;

PETALWTHS: Den kanoyme symchfismoys. Yparxei nomimothta, yparxei mia sygkekrimenh tajh sto Koinoboylio kai fysika eimaste oloi ypologoi ston ellhniko lao, gia to ti antimetwpish exoyme kai apenanti stoys polites kai apenanti stoys politikoys.

LASKARATOS: Kyrie Ekproswpe, qa hqela na moy peite, ean apodexeste aytoysia th xqesinh topoqethsh toy antiproedroy ths kybernhshs k. Pagkaloy, ``oloi mazi fagame ta lefta''. Fantazomai ayto afora kai oloklhro to lao, dhladh, ayto to tsoybaliasma to apodexetai h kybernhsh, thn wra poy oloi kaloyntai na plhrwsoyn, akomh kai aytoi poy den exoyn ftaijei;

PETALWTHS: O k. Pagkalos eipe ayto poy gnwrizoyme oloi edw kai para polla xronia. Oti yparxoyn paqogeneies dekaetiwn poy ejeqrecan ena dhmosio, poy polles fores htan anajiokratiko, poy polles fores htan yperdiogkwmeno kai safestata den ejyphretoyse tis anagkes toy Ellhna polith. Gnwrizoyme para poly kala kai sto prosfato parelqon, oti ayth thn terastia epityxia twn prohgoymenwn kybernhsewn toy PASOK gia to antikeimeniko systhma proslhcewn kai ajiologhsewn mesw ASEP, hrqe h N.D. kai to katarghse. Kai ekane ena panhgyri kai sto xwro toy dhmosioy, me th gnwsth synenteyjh kai ta gnwsta ``paraqyra'' apo opoy empaine kaqenas kai o kaqe politeyths, o kaqe boyleyths, o kaqe ypoyrgos ths kybernhshs ths N.D. ebaze kai toys dikoys toy. Ayth th nomimothta hlqame kai apokatasthsame amesws. As mhn jexname oti o nomos gia tis proslhceis, mesw toy ASEP, alla kai h eswterikh ajiologhsh twn dieyqyntikwn stelexwn toy dhmosioy htan apo tis prwtes proteraiothtes ayths ths kybernhshs kai fysika, ekfrazontas th boylhsh kai thn apofasistikothta na exoyme ena allo dhmosio tomea, ena allo kratos. Den gnwrizame posoi htan oi dhmosioi ypallhloi, twra to maqame me thn apografh poy apofasisame. Gnwrizame, loipon, poly kala ti katastash yphrxe kai ti katastash qeloyme na afhsoyme emeis. O k. Pagkalos me to diko toy logo eipe kapoia aytonohta pragmata. Den yparxei kanena tsoybaliasma kai oi eyqynes anhkoyn sthn ekastote politikh hgesia poy diorize kata koron, me ton tropo poy diorize. H N.D. askhse aristotexnika ayto to qema twn proslhcewn, kati to opoio emeis qerapeysame.

KOYTRAS: Kyrie Ekproswpe, apo to prwi h ERT paranomei tripla. Prwton, ekpempei to chfiako ths paranomws apo thn Parnhqa, deyteron, ayto ginetai me megalyterh entash ap` o,ti orizei o nomos, triton, sthn idia syxnothta ekpempei taytoxrona ta thleoptika kanalia kai ta pente radiofwna ths. Qa epitrecei h kybernhsh na synexistei ayto kai poies qa einai oi synepeies gia mia dioikhsh enos dhmosioy organismoy poy paranomei;

PETALWTHS: Qa to diereynhsw kai qa sas apanthsw. Gnwrizoyme, omws, oti to qema einai poly eyrytero kai qa prepei na mpei mia tajh.

XIDIROGLOY: Xqes mas eipate, to qymamai kala, oti o syndikalismos einai ena qemelio ths Dhmokratias. Shmera, diabazoyme ston Typo gia thn katarghsh nomoqetikhs ryqmishs poy diasfalize ta syndikalistika dikaiwmata kai malista katakalokaira. Ti akribws symbainei kyrie Ekproswpe;

PETALWTHS: Epanalambanw ayto poy eipa kai xqes kai fysika den yparxei kamia blabh toy syndikalismoy, etsi opws ginetai. Ola ayta poy diabazoyme kai akoyme gia to syndikalismo einai abasima.

XIDIROGLOY: Mhpws, omws, ayth h ryqmish gia thn opoia diabazoyme shmera ston Typo egine en ocei allagwn gia na prolhfqoyn h na katastaloyn dynamikes kinhtopoihseis ek meroys omadwn, oi opoies endexomenws qa plhgoyn apo ta metra poy lambanei h kybernhsh;

PETALWTHS: Exoyme dwsei tis ejetaseis mas kai tis dinoyme kaqhmerina. Sebomaste ton ellhniko lao, ton Ellhna polith kai oles tis morfes mesa apo tis opoies ekfrazetai. Eimaste oi prwtoi poy exoyme anagei to qema ths diaboyleyshs se meizon zhthma Dhmokratias kai ayto akoloyqoyme. Epizhtoyme to dialogo, efarmozoyme to dialogo, mexri thn teleytaia stigmh. Kai polla apo ta nomoqethmata poy exoyme chfisei, ws kybernhsh toy PASOK, einai proionta enos megaloy dialogoy. Oxi aplws den fobomaste to syndikalismo, emeis ton epizhtame, etsi wste na mporoyme na nomoqetoyme me bash to symferon twn ergazomenwn, alla kai to dhmosio symferon panw ap` ola.

SPANOY: Me thn ypo proqesh katarghsh kai sygxwneysh dhmosiwn organismwn kai yphresiwn, yparxei endexomeno na xasoyn th doyleia toys merikes xiliades ypallhlwn;

PETALWTHS: Gi` ayto to qema, exoyme milhsei kata koron. Einai anagkaio na yparxei katarghsh kapoiwn dhmosiwn forewn, na yparxei sygxwneysh. Giati gnwrizoyme oloi poly kala oti ayto poy pername shmera einai en merei apotelesma kai olhs ayths ths anyparjias kratikhs synoxhs kai fysika olhs ayths ths pelateiakhs logikhs poy me bash ta symferonta kapoiwn dhmioyrgoyntan kapoioi foreis xwris antikeimeno, xwris ypodomh, me ergazomenoys poy den ekanan th doyleia toys. Emeis shmera ola ayta ta epanejetazoyme se mia nea bash, opoy proteraiothta exei o sebasmos sthn ergasia. Gi` ayto milhsame gia metatajeis, opoy xreiazetai. Proxwrame se ejorqologismo kai twn ergazomenwn sto dhmosio tomea.

KOYTRAS: Kyrie Ekproswpe, oi elegxoi stis epixeirhseis apo thn eforia, ginontai me ypallhloys san kai aytoys toys dyo, oi opoioi synelhfqhsan xqes;

PETALWTHS: Xqes, egine edw kai mia sxetikh syzhthsh gia to poios mporei na elegxei kai an yparxei ikanothta na elegxei. Eipa kai xqes, oti oi foroeispraktikoi mhxanismoi sth xwra mas pasxoyn, oti yparxoyn polles paqogeneies, tis gnwrizoyme kai tis aities tis gnwrizoyme. Gia ayto akribws h kybernhsh qa kataqesei nomosxedio gia th ryqmish, gia th beltiwsh twn foroeispraktikwn mhxanismwn. Yparxoyn tetoioi mhxanismoi, etsi wste na mhn epitrepoyn se kanenan na mpainei se tetoioys peirasmoys, opws eidame xqes.

KOYTRAS: Qa allajoyn kai oi poines gia toys epiorkoys;

PETALWTHS: Yparxei allagh oloy toy systhmatos toy foroeispraktikoy mhxanismoy.

MIXAHL: Kyrie Ekproswpe, blepoyme edw kai peripoy ena mhna sto xwro toy aqlhtismoy mia megalh anataraxh, me sygkroyseis symferontwn omadwn, opadwn ktl. Bebaiws, exoyn th dioikhtikh aytoteleia toys. Wstoso h politeia pws topoqeteitai gyrw apo ola ayta ta fainomena; Skeftetai na parei kapoia prwtoboylia gia na hremisoyn ta pneymata, na dieyqethqoyn oi katastaseis, na mpei mia hsyxia, na apolaysei h ellhnikh koinwnia, telos pantwn, to spor qeama poy prosferetai;

PETALWTHS: Ayta poy blepoyme oloi para polla xronia, eseis ta onomazete toy teleytaioy mhna, fainomena toy enos mhna;

MIXAHL: Yparxei mia ejarsh ton teleytaio mhna, gia ayto to lew. Thn antiparaqesh metajy idiokthtwn omadwn, ena apisteyto klima poy yparxei, epeisodia metajy filaqlwn, olo ayto to pragma. Qa parete kapoia prwtoboylia;

PETALWTHS: Ayto den einai toy teleytaioy mhna. Yparxei mia katastash edw kai para polla xronia. H Politeia, fysika, exei ryqmistiko rolo kai an pisteyei oti prepei na parembei, qa parembei sto nomimo plaisio.

MARAQIAS: Hqela na rwthsw, me aformh to prwto erwthma toy k. Koytra gia thn

ERT: Pote h kybernhsh qa balei tajh se olo ayto to kaqestws twn idiwtikwn kanaliwn kai sth xorhghsh twn adeiwn;

PETALWTHS: Anefera prohgoymenws sthn apanthsh moy oti ekei yparxei ena zhthma. H kybernhsh to ejetazei kai qa mpei kai ekei tajh .

Sas eyxaristw.

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