Greek Government Press Briefing, 10-09-08

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From: The Hellenic Ministry of Press & Mass Media <http://www.minpress.gr/>

Tmhma Dhmosiografikwn Kalycewn

Tetarth, 8 Septembrioy 2010

Ariqmos Deltioy: 288056209

Ekdosh 1

BRIEFING(080910)

KYBERNHTIKOS EKPROSWPOS

Aqhna, 8 Septembrioy 2010

GIWRGO PETALWTH

Kalo meshmeri.

Toys teleytaioys 11 mhnes syntelesthke ena spoydaio kai prwtofanes gia th xwra, se ryqmoys, ergo. To prohgoymeno kybernhtiko sxhma antapokriqhke se katastaseis ektakths anagkhs, bohqhse sto na swqei h xwra apo thn katastrofh kai eqese tis baseis gia ena neo jekinhma me seira prwtoboyliwn kai domikwn allagwn. Dhmioyrghqhke sth logikh twn tote synqhkwn.

Shmera, meta ton anasxhmatismo, pername se mia allh fash, se enan allo kyklo politikhs, poy qa antapokrinetai stis nees ayjhmenes anagkes poy exoyn prokycei se ayto to diasthma. Yparxoyn nees domes sthn kybernhsh kai proswpa epityxhmena me empeiries kai gnwseis poy kaloyntai na tis yphrethsoyn. Oi domikes allages einai to kyrio xarakthristiko aytoy toy anasxhmatismoy, perissotero apo ta proswpa. Ephlqan hdh kai qa epelqoyn akoma polles allages se qesmoys kai leitoyrgies ths dhmosias dioikhshs, poy qa allajoyn oristika to proswpo ths xwras kai qa apotelesoyn th bash gia thn epomenh hmera ths krishs.

Oi anagkes gia th stenh parakoloyqhsh ylopoihshs aytwn twn qesmikwn allagwn kai h anagkh epopteias olwn twn tomewn askhshs ths politikhs poy apoteloyn proteraiothtes ths kybernhshs, dhmioyrgoyn se ayth th fash thn anagkh enos sxhmatos poy qa ikanopoihsei apotelesmatika th boylhsh twn politwn gia allages, poy qa exoyn antiktypo sthn poiothta zwhs kai thn kaqhmerinothta toys.

H stoxeysh mas, h stoxeysh ths kybernhshs einai kaqarh: Anaptyjh, pronoia, orizonties politikes gia thn ajiopoihsh twn pleonekthmatwn ths xwras, alla kai thn antimetwpish twn problhmatwn kai twn proteraiothtwn gia na petyxoyme tis megales allages sth xwra mas.

Parakalw tis erwthseis sas.

XASAPOPOYLOS: Kyrie Ekproswpe, hqela na sas rwthsw, sta plaisia aytwn twn domikwn allagwn kai ths stenhs parakoloyqhshs twn ypoyrgeiwn kai ths epopteias ths politikhs, qa dhmioyrghqei ena neo epiteliko organo, an katalabainoyme kala apo th shmerinh prwinh syskech poy egine sto ypoyrgeio Proedrias;

PETALWTHS: Sto ypoyrgeio Eswterikwn synhlqe shmera, h omada sxediasmoy ypo thn proedria toy Prwqypoyrgoy, h opoia qa synedriazei taktika. Opws exei pei kai o Prwqypoyrgos, einai sto plaisio twn apofasewn poy hdh exoyn anakoinwqei kai epikentrwnetai sto basiko strathgiko sxediasmo ths kybernhshs gia thn epomenh xronia. Enas sxediasmos poy qa syndiamorfwnetai, ennoeitai, kai qa ejeidikeyetai me oloys toys ypoyrgoys poy einai armodioi, kaqenas gia ton tomea ths eyqynhs toy, alla kai ta syllogika organa, ta opoia qa lambanoyn en telei kai tis apofaseis.

XASAPOPOYLOS: Ep` aytoy exw dyo erwthseis akomh: Ayth h omada sxediasmoy qa leitoyrgei kai ws omada diaxeirishs krisewn, h mia erwthsh kai h deyterh einai, ean se ayth thn omada sxediasmoy qa metexei kai o antiproedros ths kybernhshs.

PETALWTHS: Opws anefera prohgoymenws einai omada sxediasmoy kai o rolos ths einai ejeidikeymenos. O antiproedros ths kybernhshs exei poly sobaro rolo, exei sygkekrimenes eyqynes, ``trexei'', as moy epitrapei h ekfrash, sygkekrimena programmata kai fysika qa yparxoyn kai alles omades, opws h anaptyjiakh kai polles alles, stis opoies qa symmetexei o Antiproedros ths kybernhshs. H synqesh ayths ths epitrophs qa ayjanetai h qa periorizetai analoga me tis anagkes kai to antikeimeno ths syzhthshs.

XASAPOPOYLOS: Ta staqera merh ayths ths omadas sxediasmoy, einai aytoi poy synedriasan shmera ypo ton Prwqypoyrgo.

PETALWTHS: Malista.

SIDERHS: Qewreite oti h eikona poy ejepemce h xwra proxqes to brady, htan eikona sobarothtas, otan anakoinwnetai o anasxhmatismos 01.40 to prwi; Prosidiazei ayto se mia sobarh eyrwpaikh xwra;

PETALWTHS: To qema ayto erwthqhke kai ejantlhqhke xqes. Alla qa sas apanthsw kai shmera. Emas mas endiaferei h oysia. Qelame na teleiwnoyme me ton anasxhmatismo. Yphrxan texnika zhthmata, ta lysame, anakoinwqhke o anasxhmatismos thn idia hmera kai thn epomenh hmera orkisthke h nea kybernhsh, h opoia arxise na doyleyei amesws. Ton ellhniko lao ton endiaferei na yparxei mia kybernhsh, h opoia qa einai tetoia poy qa toy lynei ta polla problhmata, poy exoyn sysswreytei ston topo. Apo ekei kai pera, to an pisteyei kaneis oti h oysia ths diakybernhshs einai apo mia eikona h opoia einai argoporhmenh ws pros thn anakoinwsh toy kybernhtikoy sxhmatos, tote nomizw oti kaqenas mporei na bgalei ta symperasmata toy.

SIDERHS: Pws arxise na doyleyei amesws, afoy qa breqeite pali aixmalwtoi ston daidalo twn proedrikwn diatagmatwn kai ths anakatanomhs twn armodiothtwn;

PETALWTHS: Eseis to gnwrizete ayto;

SIDERHS: Ma, den xreiazontai proedrika diatagmata gia na oristoyn oi nees armodiothtes;

PETALWTHS: Zoyme se mia syntetagmenh Politeia kai fysika ta proedrika diatagmata apaitoyntai gia tis armodiothtes. Den mporoyme na parakamcoyme tis nomimes diadikasies. Ayto den shmainei oti h kybernhsh den ergazetai.

SIDERHS: Entajei. Apla, to eipa giati yparxei h mnhmh oti kanate tesseris-pente mhnes thn perasmenh fora otan kanate pali anadomhsh armodiothtwn kai yphresiwn kai xreiasthke na perasoyn arketoi mhnes.

PETALWTHS: As mhn jexname oti htan to prwto kybernhtiko sxhma, me mia domh toy kratoys h opoia kaqe allo para ikanopoihtikh htan kai mia dhmosia dioikhsh, h opoia me tis polles parembaseis kai twn dekaetiwn, alla eidikotera me thn katalytikh parembash ths Neas Dhmokratias, den leitoyrgoyse opws eprepe na leitoyrghsei. Einai teleiws diaforetikes synqhkes. H dioikhsh pleon einai organwmenh se ola ta epipeda -toylaxiston sto meros poy mas afora- kai fysika den qa yparxei kamia kaqysterhsh kai kamia anhsyxia den qa prepei na exoyme.

SPANOY: Mporeite na moy jekaqarisete se poion anhkei to xartofylakio ths Energeias, metajy ths k. Mpirmpilh kai toy k. Xrysoxoidh ennow, kai poios exei thn politikh eyqynh gia ton OPAP;

PETALWTHS: Gia na mhn mpainete ston kopo kai kanete eidikeymenes erwthseis, ws pros tis armodiothtes, qa sas pw to ejhs: Oi meizones armodiothtes einai orismenes kai prokaqorismenes apo to nomo. Oi epimeroys armodiothtes epejergazontai kai qa typopoihqoyn nomotexnika, opote qa anakoinwqoyn kiolas.

MOYRELATOS: Kyrie Ekproswpe, to teleytaio dekamhno h kybernhsh biwse kapoies meizones koinwnikes kriseis. Na rwthsw kati kai na epanelqw sthn prwth erwthsh toy synadelfoy: To organo ayto qa antapokrinetai kai se ayth thn anagkh; Dhladh, qa synedriazei en eidh organoy diaxeirishs krisewn h ayto...

PETALWTHS: Opws sas anefera, einai omada sxediasmoy gia thn politikh xarajh ths strathgikhs gia thn epomenh xronia.

ALEIFEROPOYLOS: Epeidh oi armodiothtes kai to xartofylakio toy antiproedroy, k. Pagkaloy, einai oytws h allws sygkekrimenes kai epeidh to neo ypo systash kybernhtiko, ayto, organo exei kapoies armodiothtes, opws eipate einai omada sxediasmoy kai fantazomai kai parakoloyqhshs h enisxyshs toy kybernhtikoy ergoy, yparxoyn synarmodiothtes me ta osa prattei o k. Pagkalos; Afairoyntai armodiothtes; Metaferontai;

PETALWTHS: Den afaireitai kamia armodiothta kanenos meloys ths kybernhshs. Einai mia omada poy einai teleiws jexwristh apo armodiothtes kai ypoyrgoys. Gi` ayto akribws sas eipa oti oi ypoyrgoi, fysika, ston tomea ths eyqynhs toys diamorfwnoyn kai ekfrazoyn kai thn politikh boylhsh, thn epejergazontai, opws akribws orizei to Syntagma kai oi nomoi, alla th xarajh ayths ths genikoterhs politikhs strathgikhs kai idiaitera se aytes tis dyskoles synqhkes, qa thn exei h omada ayth. Kai fysika h syndiamorfwsh kai h apofash apo ta syllogika organa ths kybernhshs qa ginetai opws epitassei o nomos.

ALEIFEROPOYLOS: Se dedomenes stigmes kai sygkyries, me thn omada ayth qa synergazetai kai kapoios ypoyrgos toy opoioy to xartofylakio brisketai sthn epikairothta, na ypoqesw;

PETALWTHS: Bebaiws. To eipa kai prohgoymenws, ws symplhrwma ths prwths moy dhlwshs, oti analoga me tis anagkes qa yparxei kai h symmetoxh antistoixwn ypoyrgwn, opoy tiqetai qema.

KALARRYTHS: H systash aytoy toy organoy ginetai sto plaisio ylopoihshs protasewn pros ton Prwqypoyrgo apo thn omada twn jenwn empeirognwmonwn h einai apofash toy Prwqypoyrgoy, anejarthth apo tis protaseis;

PETALWTHS: Einai sto plaisio apofasewn toy Prwqypoyrgoy, oi opoies exoyn anakoinwqei kiolas.

STRATAKHS: Na rwthsw kati ep` aytoy kyrie Ekproswpe: Otan leipei o Prwqypoyrgos, se ayth thn epitroph poios qa proedreyei;

PETALWTHS: Den einai zhthma ayto.

STRATAKHS: Nomizw oti einai poly sobaro zhthma.

PETALWTHS: O Prwqypoyrgos qa brisketai sthn epitroph ayth. H epitroph einai ena syllogiko organo.

SIDERHS: Ayth h epitroph einai apotelesma twn protasewn poy ekane o k. Ragkoyshs ston Prwqypoyrgo, gia thn organwsh kai leitoyrgia...

PETALWTHS: Einai sto plaisio twn apofasewn toy Prwqypoyrgoy. Xairomai, pantws, poy yparxei toso endiaferon gi` ayth thn epitroph.

MIXAHL: Kyrie Ekproswpe, poios qa exei thn eyqynh gia th xarajh ths politikhs se kaqe ypoyrgeio, o ypoyrgos h o anaplhrwths ypoyrgos, o opoios pairnei armodiothtes apo ton Prwqypoyrgo;

PETALWTHS: Yparxei Syntagma, yparxoyn nomoi toy kratoys. Ayta ola kaqorizontai epakribws. An qelete na rwthsete kati allo, ektos ap` ayth thn erwthsh, rwthste to eyqews.

MIXAHL: Epishs, qelw na sas rwthsw to ejhs. O Prwqypoyrgos epeleje na topoqethsei anaplhrwtes ypoyrgoys sta perissotera ypoyrgeia.

PETALWTHS: Oxi sta perissotera ypoyrgeia. Se kapoia ypoyrgeia.

MIXAHL: Sta perissotera, se epta. To erwthma moy einai, oi armodiothtes toys, pote qa kaqoristoyn, gia na jeroyme ti qa kanei o kaqenas;

PETALWTHS: Me ta proedrika diatagmata. Oi armodiothtes twn anaplhrwtwn ypoyrgwn didontai apeyqeias apo ton Prwqypoyrgo.

SIDERHS: Qa epimeinw sthn erwthsh. Einai apofash toy Prwqypoyrgoy h sygkrothsh ths epitrophs. Poios proteine ston Prwqypoyrgo kai apofasise o Prwqypoyrgos na ginei ayth h epitroph;

PETALWTHS: Einai apofash kai mono toy Prwqypoyrgoy.

SIDERHS: Fantazomai oti den einai kratiko mystiko.

PETALWTHS: Oxi, den einai kratiko mystiko.

POLYMEROS: Mia aporia, an mporeite na moy lysete. Akoysa proxqes th Nea Dhmokratia na milaei gia ``mayra mesanyxta'', sxetika me ton anasxhmatismo. Mporeite, mhpws na moy apokwdikopoihsete ayth th frash;

PETALWTHS: Ta ``mayra mesanyxta'' einai ena shrial poy profanws to exei dei polles fores h Nea Dhmokratia. ``Mayra mesanyxta'' exei kapoios otan den antilambanetai thn pragmatikothta. Mallon ayto epikratei sth Nea Dhmokratia.

STRATAKHS: Oi genikoi grammateis poy qa apomakrynqoyn endexomenws, giati einai kai qema ypoyrgoy, na krathsei h na mhn krathsei ena geniko grammatea h oi neoi poy qa prepei na proslhfqoyn sta neosystaqenta ypoyrgeia, qa epilegoyn mesa apo th diadikasia ths anoixths diakybernhshs h qa exoyme ena paradeigma p.x. IKA poy epelegh meta apo 10 mhnes, apo to periballon toy ypoyrgoy;

PETALWTHS: Genikoi grammateis yparxoyn sta ypoyrgeia. Prepei na antilhfqoyme oloi mas -kai nomizw oti to exoyme antilhfqei oloi- oti ayth h kybernhsh den leitoyrgei sta protypa twn prohgoymenwn kybernhsewn, poy o kaqe ypoyrgos epairne mazi kai to filo, ton kollhto, to gnwsto toy kai ton ekane geniko grammatea. H diadikasia ths anoikths diakybernhshs einai mia prwtoporiakh diadikasia, h opoia antanakla kai metoysiwnei, akribws, th diafaneia kai thn ajiokratia, para tis opoies elleiceis giati htan prwtofanhs kai poly kainotoma akomh kai gia ta eyrwpaika dedomena. Fysika ayth h diadikasia qa synexisei na yparxei kai se ola ta epipeda. Sta ypoyrgeia yparxoyn genikoi grammateis kai kaqenas exei deijei th doyleia toy.

STRATAKHS: Oxi se ola.

PETALWTHS: Se poio akribws den yparxei;

STRATAKHS: Sto neosystaqen, Naytilias.

PETALWTHS: Ma den exei systaqei ypoyrgeio, qa yparxei akomh genikos grammateas;

STRATAKHS: Ennow, oti otan systaqei, se 10 hmeres. O grammateas pws qa oristei;

PETALWTHS: Sas eipa oti h diadikasia ths anoikths diakybernhshs einai diadikasia thn opoia pisteyei h kybernhsh kai qa th qwrakisei akomh perissotero me apotelesmatikothta kai me taxythta.

KOYKLOYMPERHS: Exei kapoio sxolio na kanei h kybernhsh gia thn anakoinwsh ypochfiothtas apo to melos toy Eqnikoy Symboylioy toy PASOK, Alejh Mhtropoyloy, me anejarthto chfodeltio; Kai an yparxei endexomeno gia ekkinhsh peiqarxikwn diadikasiwn apo to PASOK.

PETALWTHS: H kybernhsh, safws, kai den exei na kanei sxolio. Ws pros to oti einai melos toy Eqnikoy Symboylioy toy PASOK, yparxoyn diadikasies sto PASOK.

KOYKLOYMPERHS: Na to qesw ligo diaforetika. Pws blepete ypochfiothtes, oi opoies stis diakhryjeis toys tiqentai kata toy ``KALLIKRATH'' kai kaloyn ton kosmo enantia sto mnhmonio me thn troika;

PETALWTHS: Kaqenas qa prepei na sebetai thn antilhch toy ellhnikoy laoy kai qa prepei na sebetai kai to logo poy ginontai aytes oi aytodioikhtikes ekloges. To exw pei kai alles fores, einai kai apoch ths kybernhshs, fysika, oti opoios prospaqei na egklwbisei aytes tis sygkekrimenes epiloges poy qa prokycoyn apo tis aytodioikhtikes ekloges toy Noembrioy, kaqe allo, para tima th nohmosynh toy ellhnikoy laoy. Asxoloymaste me megales allages poy ginontai sto epiteliko kratos, sth dioikhsh kai kyriws sthn aytodioikhsh. Exoyme mia poly megalh dynatothta na allajoyme polla pragmata, ap` ayta poy talaipwroyn kai thn kaqhmerinothta mas, alla kai to dhmosionomiko kai oikonomiko tomea toy ellhnikoy kratoys. Opoios ta bazei ayta se deyterh moira, einai ypologos stoys polites.

NEDOS: Hqela na rwthsw, an sto neo prwqypoyrgiko grafeio, opws ayto diamorfwnetai, exei kapoia qesh o k. Papadhmos, oson afora to oikonomiko kommati. An einai symboylos toy Prwqypoyrgoy h an problepetai na ginei kapoia stigmh.

PETALWTHS: Eseis eidate neo prwqypoyrgiko grafeio;

NEDOS: To lew ayto me to dedomeno oti pleon exoyme ena ypoyrgeio Eswterikwn me ayjhmenes armodiothtes kai me mia nea epitroph. An yparxei katw apo thn epitroph twn ypoyrgwn kai mia epitroph deytereyoysa, symboylwn. Me ayth thn ennoia to lew.

PETALWTHS: Den topoqetoymai se kati poy den yparxei. Kata thn anakoinwsh toy anasxhmatismoy sas anefera pws qa diamorfwqei to ypoyrgeio Eswterikwn. Den yparxei tipote, giati den exei ginei tipote.

KALARRYTHS: Pera twn domwn poy proanefere o synadelfos, o k. Papadhmos prokeitai na ajiopoihqei se kapoio rolo sto plaisio symboylwn pros ton Prwqypoyrgo gia to qema ths oikonomias;

PETALWTHS: Rwtate ypoqetika kai apantw se ypoqetikes erwthseis. Den yparxei kamia tetoia apofash ths kybernhshs.

ALEIFEROPOYLOS: Sthn eisagwgh sas kyrie Ekproswpe, tonisate oti to prohgoymeno kybernhtiko sxhma ejyphrethse me ton kalytero dynato tropo yparxoyses anagkes ths periodoy poy leitoyrghse. Kai to kainoyrgio kybernhtiko sxhma qa ejyphrethsei tis anagkes poy erxontai. Kai qelw na sas rwthsw, ti apantate sthn kritikh sygkekrimenwn kommatwn, poy eyqys ejarxhs ap` otan systaqhke h kybernhsh sas, askoysan sobarh kritikh...

PETALWTHS: Sto prwto mas kybernhtiko sxhma;

ALEIFEROPOYLOS: Nai. Askoysan sobarh kritikh gia thn katarghsh toy ypoyrgeioy Naytilias, to opoio twra epanasysteinetai. Dhladh, me liga logia. Yphrxe ena ypoyrgeio, to katarghsate. Ti ejyphrethse ayto; Yposthkate kritikh kai twra to anasthnete. Einai paradoxh oti egine laqos;

PETALWTHS: Prwta ap` ola, opoies diorqwseis mporoyme na kanoyme, tis kanoyme. Safws kai petyxe to prohgoymeno kybernhtiko sxhma. Gia na briskomaste shmera edw kai na exoyme thn anesh na syzhtame gia leptomerestera zhthmata apo to basiko diakybeyma poy antimetwpisame, to na swqei h xwra apo th xrewkopia h oxi, safws kai petyxe. Opoies diorqwseis mporoyme na kanoyme, tis kaname. Sto sygkekrimeno, omws, zhthma qa prepei aplws, na pw oti to ypoyrgeio Naytilias etsi opws leitoyrgoyse- kai gnwrizoyme para poly kala ti ginotan sto ypoyrgeio Naytilias se diafores faseis ths yparjhs toy kai ti diameibotan kai pws lambanontan oi apofaseis ekei- eprepe na katarghqei. Ayth htan apofash toy Prwqypoyrgoy kai ayto egine. Apo ekei kai pera, to entajame sto ypoyrgeio Oikonomias, giati qewroysame kai qewroyme oti einai qema oikonomias kai anaptyjhs. Apo th stigmh, omws, poy xreiazontai mia idiaiterh antimetwpish ta qemata ths naytilias, dhmioyrghqhke kai qa dhmioyrghqei se allh bash ena allo ypoyrgeio, poy den qa exei kamia sxesh me to palio ypoyrgeio Naytilias.

MIXAHL: O k. Pampoykhs qa metexei se ayto to sxhma toy strathgikoy sxediasmoy;

PETALWTHS: O k. Pampoykhs exei sygkekrimenes armodiothtes. Einai ypoyrgos Epikrateias me eidikeysh kai eidikoterh armodiothta sta qemata twn ependysewn. Qa paijei sobarotato rolo. Kai gnwrizoyme poly kala oti oi ependyseis sthn proselkysh toys kai sthn ylopoihsh toys, einai ena poly megalo stoixhma gia na yparxei anaptyjh.

MIXAHL: Edw, symbainei, omws, to ejhs paradojo. Epitrecte moy na sas pw to ejhs: Mas perigrafete poies einai oi armodiothtes toy k. Pampoykh kai poios einai o titlos toy. Mono poy den yparxei dioikhtikh domh na thn elegjei. Dhladh, einai enas ypoyrgos poy qa exei ena antikeimeno xwris yphresia.

PETALWTHS: Ma, twra dhmioyrghqhke ayth h armodiothta. Qa yparjei yphresia, qa yparjei dioikhtikh domh. O k. Pampoykhs exei organwmeno grafeio, exei organwmenh domh sto grafeio toy kai fysika qa yparxei olh ekeinh h texnikh yposthrijh thn opoia xreiazetai. Einai aytonohto.

MIXAHL: Den ennow ayto. Ennow to ejhs, oti qa sygkrothqei, dhladh, mia nea dioikhtikh domh - den jerw an qa legetai genikh grammateia, ypoyrgeio, organismos -gia tis ependyseis. Opws, dhladh, gia paradeigma, eseis...

PETALWTHS: Dhladh, ti rwtate;

MIXAHL: Rwtaw to ejhs, giati den einai safes se emena toylaxiston. Krinate jana na epanasysthsete to ypoyrgeio Naytilias, giati xreiazetai twra, gia kapoioys logoys.

PETALWTHS: Sas eipa oti den epanasysthnoyme to ypoyrgeio Naytilias. Dhmioyrgoyme ena allo ypoyrgeio, to opoio qa einai diaforetiko.

MIXAHL: Wraia. Rwtw loipon, oti o k. Pampoykhs afoy exei ayth thn asafh armodiothta, qa ftiaxtei kai mia analogh domh - opws qelete peste thn, den mpainw ston titlo- poy qa ejyphretei to antikeimeno toy. Giati, den egine safes apo ton anasxhmatismo. Ston anasxhmatismo fainetai oti paramenei ypoyrgos Epikrateias kai qa asxoleitai genika me tis ependyseis.

PETALWTHS: Xwris domh;

MIXAHL: Ayto den exw katalabei.

PETALWTHS: Kapoia pragmata einai aytonohta.

MIXAHL: Den einai apolytws.

PETALWTHS: Twra, to poso o ypoyrgos qa diagnwsei tis anagkes, etsi wste to ergo toy na einai pio leitoyrgiko kai pio apotelesmatiko, einai diko toy qema. Akribws gi` ayto yparxei to kratos. Gia na dhmioyrgei ekeines tis ypodomes, etsi wste ta ypoyrgeia na doyleyoyn me ton pio kalo kai pio apodotiko tropo.

MARAQIAS: Epeidh eipate sthn arxh oti oi telikes apofaseis qa lambanontai apo ta syllogika organa, me aformh kai th systash toy neoy organoy, shmainei oti ayto to organo eishgeitai pros to ypoyrgiko symboylio, to opoio lambanei tis apofaseis; Qa exei dhladh apofasistiko rolo, symboyleytiko, eishghtiko; Poios qa einai o rolos toy; H diaxeirisths krisewn telika, opws eipwqhke prin apo toys synadelfoys ;

PETALWTHS: Sas anefera to rolo kai epeidh egine kai erwthsh gia to ean qa diaxeirizetai kai tis kriseis, sas apanthsa oti o rolos toy einai : o basikos programmatismos ths politikhs, eidikotera etsi opws leitoyrgei shmera gia thn epomenh xronia. Exoyme zhthmata twn megalwn allagwn. Zhthmata twn domwn toy ellhnikoy kratoys, ta opoia qa prepei kai na programmatistoyn kai na ejeidikeytoyn kalytera. Apo ekei kai pera yparxoyn oi ypoyrgoi, yparxoyn ta syllogika organa poy apofasizoyn gia kaqe ena apo ayta ta zhthmata.

MARAQIAS: Ara eishgeitai sto ypoyrgiko symboylio...

PETALWTHS: Peite to opws qelete. Egw den eipa oti eishgeitai. Sas anefera to sygkekrimeno rolo. Den nomizw oti yparxei logos na xarakthrisoyme gia to ti akribws qa kanei, an einai eishghsh h otidhpote allo. Sas eipa oti oi ypoyrgoi kai ta syllogika organa exoyn syntagmatika katoxyrwmenoys roloys. Kai aytoi oi roloi, ennoeitai, oti yparxoyn kai qa yparxoyn pantote.

MARAQIAS: O,ti apofasizei ayto to organo qa kaloyntai oi ypoyrgoi na to ekteloyn;

PETALWTHS: Sas apanthsa oti einai qema rolwn toy kaqenos. Oi ypoyrgoi ylopoioyn tis apofaseis ths kybernhshs kai ta syllogika organa apofasizoyn. O rolos twn ypoyrgwn einai ejairetika shmantikos kai gia ayto akribws yparxei kai to sygkekrimeno kybernhtiko sxhma. Kai o rolos ayths ths omadas einai diaforetikos. Opws sas eipa, einai o programmatismos.

MOYRELATOS: Kyrie Ekproswpe, eipate prwtytera oti oi epimeroys armodiothtes qa typopoihqoyn katopin epejergasias. Eiste aisiodojos oti ayto qa ginei entos orismenoy xronikoy diasthmatos;

PETALWTHS: Bebaiws. Yparxei kratos. Yparxei organwmenh dioikhsh. Yparxei Genikh Grammateia, h opoia epejergazetai tis armodiothtes kai qa tis typopoihsei me ta proedrika diatagmata.

MOYRELATOS: Pote qa ginei ayto;

PETALWTHS: Prosdokoyme oti qa ginei se syntomo xroniko diasthma.

KOYTRAS: Kyrie Ekproswpe, pws qa ejhghqei to gegonos oti h Genikh Grammateia Katanalwth paei sto ypoyrgeio Ergasias; Me poio skeptiko;

PETALWTHS: Yparxei sygkekrimeno skeptiko. Sas anefera, omws, oti qa yparjei ejeidikeysh me tis armodiothtes.

GARGALAKOS: Kyrie Ekproswpe, epeidh proekyce ena arketa megalo sxhma, ayto to sxhma den xreiazetai ena eidos kybernhtikhs epitrophs gia na leitoyrgei synektika h telika h epitroph ayth poy dhmioyrghsate qa paizei ayton ton rolo;

PETALWTHS: Oxi. Ayth h omada poy dhmioyrghqhke den exei kamia sxesh me kybernhtikh epitroph h allo kybernhtiko organo. Jekiname na doyleyoyme kai qa prokriqei h kalyterh leitoyrgia aytoy toy kybernhtikoy sxhmatos. Toys tropoys qa toys broyme.

XYDIROGLOY: Akoyme synexws dysoiwnes probleceis oson afora tis statistikes ths anergias sth xwra mas kai pws ayth qa diamorfwqei toys erxomenoys mhnes. Dedomenoy oti oloi symfwnoyme oti h anergia einai mia terastia koinwnikh adikia skopeyei h kybernhsh na labei mia nea desmh metrwn prokeimenoy na qwrakisei thn koinwnia giati parathreitai kai ena allo fainomeno kai to ypogrammizw edw, to opoio einai prwtofanes meta apo polles dekaeties. Mia metanasteytikh tash metajy newn Ellhnwn sto ejwteriko pros anazhthsh ergasias.

PETALWTHS: Prwta apo ola, einai logiko to na yparxei kinhtikothta. Bebaiws, to qema ths anergias einai ena shmantiko zhthma, apotelei proteraiothta gia thn kybernhsh. Einai ena zhthma poy aggizei oloys mas, aggizei thn ellhnikh oikogeneia kai gnwrizoyme oti kai yphrxe kai qa yparxei ayjhmenh anergia, apo th stigmh poy yphrxe kai yparxei tetoia oikonomikh krish. Se ayto to shmeio na jekaqarisoyme oti h krish den perase. Ean dhmioyrgoyntai ceydaisqhseis se kapoioys oti den yparxei pleon krish, den yparxei h swsth analysh. Krish yparxei. Den exei lhjei o synagermos ths kybernhshs. To qema einai oti briskomaste se kalyterh qesh. Exoyme prooptikh kai elpida, giati akribws yparxei mia poreia sta dhmosionomika pragmata ths xwras mas, poy dhmioyrgei elpida kai aisiodojia.

Tetoioy eidoys megeqh, opws einai h anergia, h yfesh, qa yparxoyn. Kai malista einai ypologismena kai ayto akribws perilambanoyn kai oi probleceis mas sto Programma Staqerothtas kai Anaptyjhs kai apotypwnontai kai sto Mnhmonio. Fysika emeis leme oti apo to 2011 qa arxisei na beltiwnetai h katastash se aytoys toys deiktes, me apotelesma to 2012 na yparxei mia poly kalyterh kai jekaqarh katastash. Alla, epeidh pianoyme toys stoxoys mas, epeidh eimaste mesa stis probleceis mas - kai malista me ton kalytero tropo - eyelpistoyme oti qa mporoyme na eimaste pio aisiodojoi gia tetoioy eidoys dysarestes katastaseis pio syntoma.

KALLARYTHS: Kyrie Ekproswpe, qa hqela na qesw dyo dieykrinistikes erwthseis: O k. Pampoykhs qa exei sthn armodiothta toy tis ependyseis kai tis jenes kai tis egxwries, den lew dhmosies, anaferomai stis idiwtikes.

PETALWTHS: Sas anefera oti den qa mpw sto qema twn armodiothtwn. Einai lepta zhthmata, einai texnika zhthmata, nomotexnika. Einai zhthmata leptwn armodiothtwn. Otan ginei h katallhlh epejergasia kai se nomotexniko epipedo, qa anakoinwqoyn.

KALLARYTHS: Epeidh eipate oti qa exei tis ependyseis. Zhtaw mia dieykrinish.

PETALWTHS: Gia ayto sas eipa: otidhpote exei sxesh me tis armodiothtes, epejergazetai kai qa anakoinwqei.

KALLARYTHS: Ean exei o k. Pampoykhs tis ependyseis kai h energeia parameinei sto ypoyrgeio Periballontos, o k. Xrysoxoidhs me ti akribws qa kanei anaptyjh;

PETALWTHS: Na epanalabw ayto poy apanthsa prohgoymenws; Ayth einai h apanthsh. Thn eipa prohgoymenws. Eylogh h agwnia olwn mas, alla prepei na akoloyqhqoyn kai kapoies diadikasies.

MIXAHL: Den eipate to skeptiko.

PETALWTHS: To skeptiko kai to eipame kai yparxei kai to exoyme anakoinwsei para polles fores. Qa ginei pio safes, otan qa yparxei ejeidikeysh. Ayto lew.

ALIFEROPOYLOS: Gnwrizete pote qa exei oristikopoihqei, qa bgoyn ta proedrika diatagmata twn armodiothtwn, an exete kapoia eikona xronika na mas to prosdiorisete;

PETALWTHS: Prosdokoyme to syntomotero dynato. H Grammateia ths kybernhshs doyleyei apo thn anakoinwsh toy anasxhmatismoy - kai malista me mia proergasia poy eixe ginei - etsi wste na teleiwsei h typikh diadikasia sto syntomotero xroniko diasthma.

ALIFEROPOYLOS: Exete eikona gia to poso konta eimaste sthn paroysiash toy eklogikoy nomoy; Epeidh yparxoyn kapoies plhrofories poy qeloyn thn kybernhsh na proxwrei sthn epejergasia kai tis leptomereies. Kai epishs yparxoyn plhrofories oti qa erqei meta thn paroysia toy Prwqypoyrgoy sth DEQ, qa einai ena kefalaio poy qa anoijei h kybernhsh.

PETALWTHS: H kybernhsh exei desmeytei gia ton eklogiko nomo. H analogh epejergasia exei ginei se poly megalo baqmo. Opws antilambanomaste einai mia basikh allagh poy epiferei kai polles alles epallhles allages. Pisteyw oti qa yparxei sxetika syntomh paroysiash. Den mporw na anaferqw peraiterw. Einai qema toy ypoyrgeioy Eswterikwn, einai eidiko zhthma.

SABBOPOYLOY: Kyrie Ekproswpe, epeidh symmetexete se ayth thn epitroph, pote qa janasynedriasete;

PETALWTHS: Qa yparxei taktikh synedriash.

SABBOPOYLOY: Emeis qa thn maqainoyme;

PETALWTHS: Einai synedriaseis kai synergasies toy Prwqypoyrgoy me toys epiteleis toy, toys synergates toy. Den exei kapoio idiaitero endiaferon.

KALLARYTHS: Epeidh eipate oti oi armodiothtes qa anakoinwqoyn otan teleiwsei h sxetikh epejergasia, sta thlefwnhmata poy eginan pros toys ypoyrgoys poy anelaban ta xartofylakia, toys anakoinwsate poies armodiothtes qa exoyn h mono ton titlo toy ypoyrgeioy toys; Rwthsan;

PETALWTHS: Giati toses polles leptomereies; Den mporw na antilhfqw.

KALLARYTHS: Leptomereia einai to ti xartofylakio qa exei o kaqe ypoyrgos;

PETALWTHS: Einai mia leptomerestath erwthsh, h opoia pisteyw oti den exei anagkh apanthshs. Safws kai oi ypoyrgoi gnwrizan poly kala ti analambanoyn, alla oi ypoyrgoi gnwrizoyn kai poly kala oti prepei na yparxei kai mia diadikasia, na yparxoyn leptomereis ryqmiseis ws pros tis armodiothtes toys. Kai sas epanalambanw oti oi ypoyrgoi ayths ths kybernhshs erxontai gia na doylecoyn. Den malwnoyn gia tis armodiothtes toys, opws ginotan sto parelqon.

STRATAKHS: Mhpws exei sxesh, loipon, h symmetoxh toy k. Geroylanoy sthn omada ayth me to oti frontisan mesw toy anasxhmatismoy na toy afaireqoyn para polles armodiothtes, dhladh gia na mporei na symmetexei sthn omada. Giati toy afaireqhkan ta MME, o Aqlhtismos kai alhqeia me poio skeptiko phge sto ypoyrgeio Ygeias;

PETALWTHS: Ta MME giati toy afaireqhkan; Den einai sto ypoyrgeio Politismoy;

STRATAKHS: Exei sygkekrimeno anaplhrwth, omws.

PETALWTHS: O anaplhrwths ypoyrgos k. Xythrhs qa exei aytes tis armodiothtes kai armodiothtes politismoy. Apo to ypoyrgeio Politismoy den afaireqhkan ta MME.

STRATAKHS: Armodiothta toy k. .Geroylanoy, loipon, na to proswpopoihsoyme.

PETALWTHS: Sas eipa oti gia tis armodiothtes isxyei to genikotero. Alla ayto poy lete den exei kamia sxesh me th symmetoxh toy shmera. Yparxei qema enhmerwshs twn politwn, oxi epikoinwnias, kai o k. Geroylanos einai kai armodios ypoyrgos ws pros ena meros twn MME.

STRATAKHS: To skeptiko oti phgan oi armodiothtes Aqlhtismoy sto Ygeias;

PETALWTHS: Pali rwtate gia tis armodiothtes.

STRATAKHS: To skeptiko zhtaw.

PETALWTHS: Afora armodiothtes. Qa tis maqete ejeidikeymena kai qa yparxei kai aitiologikh ekqesh gia oles tis armodiothtes.

MIXAHL: Akoysame xqes ton k. Papakwnstantinoy stis Bryjelles na anaferetai se tria piqana senaria gyrw apo to ti qa ginei gia na kalyfqei to 1 dis peripoy, poy eimaste ypoxrewmenoi na mazecoyme, eite me ayjhsh toy FPA eite me allon tropo; Telika poio apo ta tria senaria prokrinei h kybernhsh;

PETALWTHS: Den yparxei apofash, gia ayto, akribws, einai senaria. Den yparxoyn akomh apofaseis. H kybernhsh qelei na exei ta esoda poy apaiteitai na exoyme, wste na eimaste entajei stis ypoxrewseis mas, me to ligotero dynato koinwniko kostos. Na stoixizoyn to ligotero dynato ston aplo Ellhna polith.

XASAPOPOYLOS: Sas rwthse h synadelfos prin, alla eipate oti oi armodiothtes den exoyn akomh kaqoristei...

PETALWTHS: Den anefera oti den exoyn kaqoristei. Eipa oti epejergazontai...

XASAPOPOYLOS: Epejergazontai. Qelw na sas rwthsw an yparxoyn skeceis h an h kybernhsh prosanatolizetai na paei ton OPAP sto ypoyrgeio Oikonomikwn. Oxi an yparxoyn apofaseis, an to skepteste.

PETALWTHS: Sas anefera oti einai qema armodiothtwn kai qa yparxei leptomerhs anafora.

Kalo apogeyma.

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