Greek Government Press Briefing, 08-07-03

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From: The Hellenic Ministry of Press & Mass Media <http://www.minpress.gr/>

Tmhma Dhmosiografikwn Kalycewn

Pempth, 3 Ioylioy 2008

Ariqmos Deltioy: 146238551

Ekdosh 1

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YPOYRGOS EPIKRATEIAS

Aqhna, 3 Ioylioy 2008

Xairete.

Se erwthsh poy moy ekane xqes o k. Kakalhs, na anaferw oti hdh sto qema twn omologwn exei yparjei mia profylakish - xqes diathrhsa mia epifylajh mh enqymoymenos ean eixe ginei h oxi- h opoia exei dhmosieytei allwste kai ston Typo kai mporeite na thn anazhthsete apo tis efhmerides h apo to APE.

Parakalw tis erwthseis sas.

KAKALHS: Ta Tameia omws poy eixan emplakei sthn ypoqesh twn domhmenwn omologwn htan para polla kai oxi enas...

ROYSOPOYLOS: H ereyna ths Dikaiosynhs exei odhghsei hdh se mia profylakish. Opws gnwrizete synexizetai, den exei oloklhrwqei.

XIWTHS: Kyrie Ypoyrge, xqes apokalyfqhke apo ton thleoptiko staqmo ALTER oti h krathsh toy k. Liaph gia na parakoloyqhsei toys, gnwstoys pia, podosfairikoys agwnes, eixe kleistei apo th Siemens. Qewreite oti ayto einai kati to apolytws fysiologiko h qewreite oti dhmioyrgei kapoio problhma;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Epikoinwnhsa me ton k. Liaph, o opoios me diabebaiwse oti aytos organwse to tajidi kai aytos plhrwse ta dika toy ejoda kai toy gioy toy. Na shmeiwsw oti ta ypoloipa, opws moy dhlwse me parrhsia, an exoyn symbei, exoyn symbei en agnoia toy.

A.PAPADHMHTRIOY: To MEGA apokalyce xqes oti emeine sto idio jenodoxeio o k. Liaphs, h krathsh toy opoioy eixe ginei apo th Siemens. Epikoinwnhsame me to Westin Leipzig. Den yparxei zhthma gi` ayto to qema; Dhladh, den apasxolei thn kybernhsh ayto; Den einai pia fhmes. Milame gia reportaz kai gia apodeijeis.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Ennoeite ean kapoios menei se ena jenodoxeio, sto opoio menei kai kapoios allos;

A. PAPADHMHTRIOY: Oxi, poy exei ginei krathsh apo th Siemens.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Apanthsa hdh ston k. Kakalh.

IWANNOY: Mhpws qa mporoysate ligaki na mas peite pws katalabainete eseis to ``en agnoia toy''; Dhladh oti den gnwrize oti h Siemens eixe sxediasei ayto to tajidi kai eixe kanei krathsh; Dhladh, ekanan diples krathseis; To ``en agnoia toy'' mporeite ligaki na mas to dieykrinisete;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Ayto to opoio eixa na pw, to eipa.

KORAH: Kyrie Ekproswpe, etsi ki alliws, den yparxei ena qema gi` ayto to tajidi toy k. Liaph; Dhladh, o k. Liaphs ekei phge monos toy me ton gio toy mono; Den eixe parea; Kai an eixe parea, giati den thn leei; Den htan parea ekei me ton k. Xristoforako; Tyxaia synanthqhkan;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Fantazomai oti exoyn doqei apanthseis se ayta ta qemata.

KORAH: Den exoyn doqei, gi` ayto tis qetoyme.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Kai lew ``fantazomai'', giati aytes tis hmeres exoyn ginei polles erwthseis. Egw qa sas pw, gia mia akomh fora, oti o k. Liaphs moy zhthse na sas metaferw ayto to opoio moy eipe. Qa sas pw epishs oti den amfisbhtw thn ajiopistia toy k. Liaph, enos politikoy o opoios einai perissotero apo 30 xronia sthn politikh zwh toy topoy.

GKOYTZANHS: Dhladh, gia na to katalaboyme, apo th mia exoyme thn kataqesh ths grammatews toy Xristoforakoy, meta exoyme ta parastatika apo th Siemens, meta exoyme tis apanthseis apo to jenodoxeio, alla par` ola ayta, gia thn kybernhsh o logos toy k. Liaph einai kati san qesfato, opote isxyei ekeinos.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Eiste eleyqeros na kanete opoio sxolio qelete sto Meso sto opoio ergazeste.

GKOYTZANHS: Telos pantwn, na qewrhsoyme oti exei thn kalych ths kybernhshs akomh, etsi; Ayto qelw na pw.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Exei apanthqei to erwthma ayto kai apo xqes kai proxqes. Den allaje kati shmera.

PALAIOLOGOS: Kyrie Ypoyrge, dyo erwthseis. H prwth einai -epeidh milame gia parastatika kai apodeijeis- ean protiqetai o k. Liaphs na ta dwsei syntoma, toylaxiston ta parastatika ta dika toy, sth dhmosiothta, prokeimenoy na peisei oti den einai elefantas, kata thn tapeinh moy apoch. Kai to deytero erwthma einai: Pws einai dynaton na synepese h diamonh toy k. Liaph, thn idia periodo, thn idia xronikh stigmh, me kapoioys alloys paragontes oi opoioi twra kalws h kakws emplekontai sthn ypoqesh ths Siemens;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Qa meinw sta osa eipa sthn arxh.

PALAIOLOGOS: Kai gia to prwto erwthma;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Kai gia ta dyo.

XIWTHS: Gia to idio qema: Sth synomilia poy eixate mazi, exete katalabei giati epi treis hmeres o ypoyrgos arneitai na dwsei sth dhmosiothta parastatika poy apodeiknyoyn thn basimothta twn oswn leei; Dhladh, den katanoei kai o idios oti egeirei ypocies me thn epilogh toy na mhn dinei parastatika, ta opoia o idios epikaleitai;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Den exw na prosqesw kati perissotero. O k. Liaphs einai ena politiko proswpo. Anaferqhka sthn ajiopistia toy, anaferqhka sthn poreia toy. Ayth th stigmh brisketai  opws gnwrizete- se tajidi me ton Proedro ths Dhmokratias. Einai mazi kai dhmosiografoi. Gnwrizete oti exoyn milhsei kai mazi toy. Den exw na pw kati perissotero.

XIWTHS: Oxi, allo qema rwtaw. Epikoinwniaka, epeidh exete mia kentrikh strathgikh sthn kybernhsh ap` oti antilambanomai, qewreite oti einai swsth h strathgikh ayth na epikaleitai enas ypoyrgos parastatika ta opoia den dhmosiopoiei;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Ean sas parapemcw sth syzhthsh poy kaname thn Trith, s` ayth thn aiqoysa kai h opoia htan makra, qa breite apanthseis sto erwthma poy moy qetete.

IWANNOY: Qa hqela, an mporeite, na mas dieykrinisete kati: Ayta ta parastatika poy, xqes, eipe o k. Liaphs oti exei sth diaqesh toy giati exei krathsei oles tis apodeijeis apo ta ejoda, to Megaro Majimoy, eseis dhladh ta exete; Ta exei dwsei o k. Liaphs stoys synergates h ston idio ton Prwqypoyrgo;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Oxi. O k. Liaphs, opws eipa prohgoymenws, einai enas politikos apo pollwn etwn sthn politikh, me ajiopistia. Den zhthqhke apo ton k. Liaph na apodeijei sto Megaro Majimoy ayta ta opoia exei dhlwsei me parrhsia kai safhneia sth dhmosia dhlwsh toy.

KAKALHS: Xqes, mas eipate oti htan toso safhs h dhlwsh toy k. Liaph, poy htan peritto kaqe diko sas sxolio, afhnontas safws thn entypwsh oti kalyptete plhrws ton ypoyrgo. Shmera, omws, parapempete sthn ajiopistia toy ypoyrgoy. Ayto shmainei oti kratate kapoies apostaseis;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Oxi. Den allazei tipota apo ta osa eipa, xqes h proxqes. Rwthqhka an exoyme ereynhsei ta stoixeia kai apanthsa me ton tropo poy qa apantoyse o Kybernhtikos Ekproswpos -egw en prokeimenw- apenanti sas se ayto to erwthma. Opws gnwrizete, h ajiopistia enos politikoy einai to megalo kefalaio toy.

TSIOYFOS: Thn Trith, sth megalh koybenta poy kaname, nomizw oti h katakleida ths htan oti den ofeilei kapoios na apodeijei oti einai aqwos, alla ofeiloyn oi alloi poy ton kathgoroyn na apodeijoyn oti den einai aqwos. Ayth nomizw oti htan h katakleida twn oswn eipate thn Trith. Meta ta osa proekycan tis dyo teleytaies hmeres, ejakoloyqeite na to lete ayto; Giati pleon yparxoyn kapoia stoixeia. Den qa prepei na apanthqoyn ayta ta stoixeia kai na apodeijei o k. Liaphs oti ontws den exei sxesh me ola ayta ta opoia hdh gnwrizoyme;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Den synhqizw na allazw basikes apoceis poy aforoyn th leitoyrgia twn qesmwn.

GKOYTZANHS: Kyrie Ekproswpe, exete kapoia ejhghsh giati exoyn ginei ola ayta;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Ti ennoeite; Einai ena qema to opoio exei megalo endiaferon. Gnwrizoyme oloi poly kala oti yparxei paradoxh apo meros enos ychlobaqmoy stelexoys toy PASOK gia eisroh poly megaloy xrhmatikoy posoy ths tajews toy 1.000.000 markwn sta kommatika tameia toy PASOK. Einai ena qema me to opoio asxoleitai h Dikaiosynh panw apo dyo xronia. Antilambanomai -kai antilambaneste- oti exei endiaferon h opoiadhpote anafora sto qema ayto.

GKOYTZANHS: Opote, eseis amfisbhteite ola ta stoixeia poy paroysiasthkan sth dhmosiothta kai aforoyn ton sygkekrimeno ypoyrgo.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Eipa kai prohgoymenws, an qelete na kanete kapoia sxolia, mporeite na ta kanete.

GKOYTZANHS: Oxi, oxi. Sas rwtw. An amfisbhteite ayta ta stoixeia. Den einai sxolio, einai erwthsh.

ROYSOPOYLOS: An sas prokyptei, apo ta osa exw pei, kati tetoio, sto stoma to diko moy den qa balete fraseis, opws eseis qelete sthn erwthsh sas.

KAKALHS: To gegonos oti h proanakrish exei kleisei, ennow o prwtos gyros, enw synexizontai na dinontai sth dhmosiothta stoixeia, erxontai sth dhmosiothta stoixeia kai apokalyceis gyrw apo to qema, den dikaiologei tis enstaseis poy diatypwnontai apo diafores pleyres gia ton tropo poy xeiristhke h Dikaiosynh to qema;

ROYSOPOYLOS: To dikaiologei gia dyo kathgories anqrwpwn: Gi` aytoys poy exoyn agnoia se o,ti afora th leitoyrgia ths Dikaiosynhs kai den ennow twn proswpwn, ths Dikaiosynhs- kai se aytoys oi opoioi epiqymoyn na dhmioyrghsoyn alles entypwseis apo aytes poy pragmatika yparxoyn. Se ayth thn prospaqeia exei apodyqei to PASOK tis teleytaies hmeres, kati to opoio sas apedeija peritrana xqes, oti alla elege to prwi, alla elege to apogeyma. Gi` aytoys, endexomenws, to dikaiologei. Alla, gia osoys gnwrizoyn oti h taktikh anakrish dieyrynei thn ereyna, thn odhgei se megalytero baqos, dhmioyrgei synqhkes gia na breqei megalytero nomiko oplostasio. Den stamata kamia ereyna. Isa-isa, synexizetai h ereyna. Kai malista, se osoys problecan oti stamata, eidate oti h Dikaiosynh toys dieceyse, giati amesws molis teleiwse h proanakrish oristhke taktikos anakriths kai arxizei h kyria anakrish. Apo poy prokyptei ayto; Stoixeiwdeis gnwseis prwtoetoys foithth ths Nomikhs na exei kapoios, antilambanetai oti h taktikh anakrish kaqoloy den stamata thn proanakrish, antiqetws th dieyrynei, th megalwnei, thn paei se megalytero baqos.

KAKALHS: Me sygxwreite, alla wstoso apo ton prwto kyklo ths proanakrishs katelhje aytos o kyklos se genikes kathgories, mh proswpopoihmenes, kai edwse kai thn entypwsh oti emplekontai kai politika proswpa. Ayto apo mono toy einai ena prwto porisma, na to pw etsi, aqwwtiko gia osoys emplekontai se ayth thn ...

ROYSOPOYLOS: Oxi. Epitrecte moy na pw oti ayto einai teleiws parelkystiko. Den sas to xrewnw proswpika, alla einai parelkystiko. Qa sas parapemcw sto analytiko deltio Typoy toy ypoyrgeioy Dikaiosynhs, to opoio ejedoqh xqes kai to opoio anaferetai sto ergo ths proanakrishs, me ejetash 50 martyrwn, me 20 dikastika aithmata synergasiwn, me anoigmata logariasmwn sto ejwteriko, gia trapezes, gia off shore etaireies, paroxh diaforwn stoixeiwn poy exoyn sxesh me thn ypoqesh, me ejetaseis panw apo 40 martyrwn, me paradosh ston anakrith 30 dematwn apo tria ogkwdh ntosie to kaqena me xiliades eggrafa. Dhladh, 90 ogkwdh ntosie kai apo ayta, ta 30 exoyn hdh metafrastei sthn ellhnikh glwssa apo tis armodies arxes k.o.k. Einai analytikh h anakoinwsh toy ypoyrgeioy Dikaiosynhs. Kai nomizw oti kalo qa htan na th diabasei kapoios prosektika.

KAKALHS: Se ayth thn anakoinwsh anaferomai. Eipate, 30 ntosie exoyn metafrastei apo ta 90. Ta ypoloipa den exoyn metafrastei. Parola ayta, ekleise o kyklos ths proanakrishs, xwris na exoyn metafrastei ta ypoloipa.

ROYSOPOYLOS: O kyklos ths proanakrishs kleinontas dinei th dynatothta na anoijei o kyklos ths kyrias anakrishs. Kai qa qymisw kai edw ayto to opoio eipa kai xqes: Osoi prospaqoyn na dhmioyrghsoyn entypwseis, politikes entypwseis -prospaqoyn na dhmioyrghsoyn kapoioi kai kyriws to PASOK apo o,ti eidame- oysiastika eite agnooyn to pws leitoyrgei to dikaiiko mas systhma, eite to kanoyn aplws gia logoys poy nomizoyn oti toys ejyphretoyn proswpika kai kommatika.

PALAIOLOGOS: Qa epanelqw sto qema me ton k. Liaph. Akomh ki an dexqoyme oti einai dedomeno kai alhqes oti o idios exei plhrwsei ta proswpika toy ejoda kai toy gioy toy, den qewrei h kybernhsh oti yparxei zhthma hqikhs tajhs gia olh ayth thn istoria me ton k. Liaph kai gia thn paramonh toy ekei to sygkekrimeno xroniko diasthma kai gia to gegonos oti epeleje sthn arxh na mh bgei dhmosia na pei ayta poy hqele na pei;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Exoyn apanthqei ayta ta qemata. Me ton enan h me ton allo tropo exoyn erwthqei kai exoyn apanthqei.

PALAIOLOGOS: Kai to qema an einai hqikhs tajews. Ayto hqela...

KATSABOY: Kyrie Ekproswpe, o ELEYQEROS TYPOS dhmosieyei shmera oti ychlobaqmo stelexos ths SIEMENS sth Germania kateqese sth Dikaiosynh ths Germanias oti o k. Xristoforakos zhtoyse xrhmata apo ta mayra tameia ths SIEMENS gia plhrwmes se politika kommata sthn Ellada enocei twn eklogwn toy 2004. Yparxei kapoio sxolio apo thn pleyra sas;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Exw erwthqei gi ayto. Giati dhmosieyqhke to idio qema, an qymamai kala, kai thn Kyriakh se kapoia efhmerida.

GKOYTZANHS: Kyrie Ekproswpe, anejarthtws ths dikastikhs ereynas, h kybernhsh skopeyei na strafei me dioikhtika metra enantion ths SIEMENS; Lew dioikhtika.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Exw enhmerwsh apo thn Yphresia Eidikwn Elegxwn, apo to Ypoyrgeio Oikonomias kai Oikonomikwn oti qa epilhfqei ths ypoqesews gia ton prosdiorismo forologikwn parabasewn kai gia to jeplyma mayroy xrhmatos meta to telos ths dikastikhs anakrishs. Kata th diarkeia ths dikastikhs ereynas h Yphresia Eidikwn Elegxwn qa mporoyse na parembei, efoson yparxei eisaggelikh paraggelia. Dhladh, efoson o anakriths krinei sthn poreia oti xreiazetai thn ejeidikeymenh syndromh ths Yphresias.

GKOYTZANHS: Politiko einai to erwthma moy: An skopeyei h kybernhsh na strafei me dioikhtika metra anejarthtws twn ereynwn. Giati; Giati stelexh ths SIEMENS exoyn pei pragmata poy an einai cemata, apoteloyn prosbolh gia ton politiko kosmo ths xwras. Exei dynatothta h kybernhsh, anejarthtws ths ereynas. Ayto lew. An skopeyei na to kanei.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Oi dynatothtes oi opoies yparxoyn ginontai mesa apo syntetagmenoys kanones kai yphresies. En prokeimenw, sas eipa poia einai h armodia yphresia gia na epilhfqei, ektos twn allwn poy anazhtoyn an yparxei mayro xrhma, pws diateqhke klp, ektos ths ereynas toy Eisaggelea, ektos argotera ths Ejetastikhs Epitrophs ths Boylhs, na anazhthqei an yparxoyn parabaseis se sxesh me th dianomh mayroy xrhmatos.

GKOYTZANHS: Telos pantwn. Tote epitrecte moy ena teleytaio erwthma. Dhladh, qa synexisei na pairnei doyleies kanonika h SIEMENS kai na symmetexei se diagwnismoys klp, san na mhn trexei tipota; Ayto lew.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Antilambanomai thn prospaqeia poy kanete me to erwthma. Qa sas pw oti yparxei mia ereyna ths Dikaiosynhs. Ayth h ereyna qa katalhjei kapoy. Apo ekei kai pera, h kybernhsh, opws gnwrizete, den kanei tipote perissotero apo to na orizei toys kanones dia ths Boylhs. Dhladh h kybernhsh eishgeitai sth Boylh nomoys. Emeis toys nomoys poy eishghqhkame gia th dienergeia diagwnismwn, toys exoyme enisxysei me para poly isxyres synqhkes diafaneias. Ayto einai gnwsto. Exei symbei, dhladh, plhrhs anatroph se sxesh me ton tropo poy dinontan ta erga sto parelqon se opoioysdhpote dhmosioys diagwnismoys. Akoloyqoyme plhrws pia kai me diafaneia toys kanones, toso toys neoys poy orisame sto ellhniko Koinoboylio sthn prohgoymenh qhteia mas, oso kai toys koinotikoys kanones. Kata synepeia, an me rwtate ean yparxei politikh apofash gia na apokleistei kapoios, qa sas elega oti ayto einai apofash poy den anagetai sto politiko epipedo, alla einai apofash h opoia exei na kanei me th nomologia. An dhladh pisteyete oti mporei mia kybernhsh na apokleisei politika kapoia etaireia, antilambaneste oti ayto qa prepei na edrazetai se nomika epixeirhmata. Me nomika epixeirhmata isxyra, ta opoia apekthse h nomikh mas biblioqhkh apo tis allages poy eginan stoys nomoys peri diafaneias ta teleytaia tessera xronia, h Politeia antimetwpizei tetoia problhmata. Den yparxei allos tropos politikhs parembashs etsi opws ton ennoeite eseis.

KORAH: Kyrie Ypoyrge, meta kai thn apanthsh toy jenodoxeioy Westin oti h krathsh poy eixe kanei h SIEMENS htan gia ton k. Liaph -kai h opoia apodeiknyei oti to sxedio gia tis metakinhseis kapoioy ypoyrgoy aforoysan telika ton k. Liaph- pisteyete oti meta apo ayth th deyterh epibebaiwsh, o k. Liaphs protiqetai na kanei agwgh kai sthn etaireia SIEMENS poy ton ejeqese me ayto ton tropo, alla kai sto jenodoxeio Westin poy isxyrizetai ayta ta pragmata h qa emmeinei mono sthn agwgh toy enantion ths ELEYQEROTYPIAS poy apokalyce kai to qema;

ROYSOPOYLOS: H erwthsh sas exei dyo skelh. Sto prwto skelos qewrw oti apanthsa apo thn prwth kiolas erwthsh poy moy teqhke. Sto deytero erwthma sas: O k. Liaphs exei dhlwsei, nomizw me arketh safhneia, sthn prwth toy dhlwsh, sth xqesinh toy dhlwsh, oti protiqetai na prosfygei sth Dikaiosynh. Den gnwrizw an qa prosfygei sth Dikaiosynh enanti toy A h toy B h toy G h toy D, alla nomizw oti h xqesinh moy topoqethsh kalyptei se genikes grammes thn erwthsh sas.

KAKALHS: ``Nomimopoieitai'' o Ypoyrgos Metaforwn na exei pronomiakes sxeseis me to basiko metoxo ths AEGEAN se mia fash poy krinotan kai krinetai to mellon ths Olympiakhs;

ROYSOPOYLOS: To ``pronomiakes sxeseis'', opws to anaferete, profanws exei na kanei me thn politikh diastash. An dhladh politika yparxoyn pronomiakes sxeseis; Giati ean eseis ki egw gnwrizomaste...

KAKALHS: Metafrazetai kai se allh...

ROYSOPOYLOS: ... lew ena paradeigma: Ean ypoqesoyme oti eseis ki egw gnwrizomaste edw kai 30 xronia, eimaste mazi filoi apo to sxoleio, to na poinikopoihsei kapoios tyxon filia h koinwnikh sxesh efoson yparxei, emena toylaxiston me briskei entelws antiqeto kai diaxronika entelws antiqeto.

KAKALHS: Den yparxei kanena problhma oti dhladh o k. Liaphs eixe aytes tis sxeseis me ton k. Laskaridh enw thn idia stigmh xeirizotan to problhma ths Olympiakhs.

ROYSOPOYLOS: O politikos krinetai apo tis apofaseis tis opoies lambanei. Kai oi apofaseis einai faneres se oloys. Den einai apofaseis en kryptw. Ekei, loipon, fainetai ean yparxei h opoiadhpote epirroh toy eidoys poy eseis anaferete.

Sas eyxaristw.

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