Greek Government Press Briefing, 07-11-07

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From: The Hellenic Ministry of Press & Mass Media <http://www.minpress.gr/>

Tmhma Dhmosiografikwn Kalycewn

Tetarth, 7 Noembrioy 2007

Ariqmos Deltioy: 104691066

Ekdosh 1

brf0711

YPOYRGOS EPIKRATEIAS

Aqhna, 7 Noembrioy 2007

Xairete.

O Prwqypoyrgos k. Kwstas Karamanlhs, ayrio stis 09.00, qa exei synergasia, sto Megaro Majimoy, me thn Ypoyrgo Ejwterikwn k. Ntora Mpakogiannh. Ayth thn wra poy milame, einai se ejelijh h synanthsh toy me th Genikh Grammatea toy KKE k. Aleka Paparhga.

Parakalw tis erwthseis sas.

GKOYTZANHS: Me thn k. Mpakogiannh qa syzhthsei gia ta ejwterika qemata h gia ta osa symbainoyn sthn Krhth;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Gia ta ejwterika qemata, fantazomai.

KAKALHS: Pisteyei h kybernhsh oti me aytes tis skhnoqethmenes astynomikes epixeirhseis qa antimetwpisei to organwmeno egklhma kai ton ypokosmo sta Zwniana;

ROYSOPOYLOS: An me thn ennoia poy xrhsimopoieite, prospaqeite na ypobaqmisete mia epixeirhsh, ontws to petyxainete, giati to skhnoqethmeno deixnei to ceytiko. Gnwrizoyme poly kala oloi mas ti shmainei ``skhnoqethmeno''. Epi ths oysias, omws, edw exoyme na kanoyme me mia pragmatikothta, thn opoia pragmatikothta antimetwpizei h Politeia me ta sygkrothmena organa ths, dhladh, me thn Ellhnikh Astynomia.

KAKALHS: Me sygxwreite, ayto akribws lew. Akribws epeidh yparxei ayth h pragmatikothta, den antimetwpizetai. Oi astynomikes epixeirhseis poy synodeyontai apo ta kanalia, poy einai paroysia...

ROYSOPOYLOS: Dhmokratia exoyme, de mporei na apagoreysei kaneis sta kanalia na einai ekei.

KAKALHS: Epilektika, omws. Allote to apagoreyete, allote oxi.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Exei ginei mia syzhthsh, apo o,ti gnwrizw, me toys ekproswpoys twn Meswn Enhmerwshs sthn perioxh na prosexoyn oi idioi, na mhn einai se oles tis perioxes, gia na mh kindyneysoyn oi zwes toys, efoson yparxoyn tetoioi kindynoi. Apo kei kai pera, de mporei na pei kapoios se mia thleorash h se ena dhmosiografo ``soy apagoreyw thn eisodo se mia oloklhrh perioxh''. Katalabainete oti ayto qa kanei esas toys idioys na egeirete en synexeia antidraseis.

PALAIOLOGOS: Gia thn epixeirhsh, exete ypoch sas, an yphrxan kapoia apta apotelesmata;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Ta ths epixeirhshs  kai ayto einai to swsto kai ayth einai kai baqia proswpikh moy pepoiqhsh- qa ta anakoinwsei h idia h Astynomia, otan prepei na anakoinwsei ta apotelesmata ths.

ROYMELIWTHS: Otan o idios o Prwqypoyrgos zhtaei na jekaqaristei amesa h katastash kai oi ypeyqynoi ths olhs epixeirhshs dinoyn dyo oloklhra eikositetrawra stoys drastes ths dolofonikhs epiqeshs na ejafanistoyn, na krycoyn ta ixnh toys kai na mh breqoyn oyte kan enoxopoihtika stoixeia, den prepei na anazhthqoyn eyqynes; Ti perimenei na brei h Astynomia dyo hmeres meta;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Se poia dhlwsh toy Prwqypoyrgoy anafereste akribws;

ROYMELIWTHS: Se ayta poy akoysame xqes, oti zhthse sthn Kybernhtikh Epitroph, na jekaqaristei amesws h katastash.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Exei kanei kapoia dhlwsh o Prwqypoyrgos poy den thn jerw;

ROYMELIWTHS: Oxi.

GKOYTZANHS: Kyrie Ekproswpe, an eseis hsaste paranomos kai perimenate na ginei h epixeirhsh sto spiti sas, qa perimenate na sas piasoyn me ta enoxopoihtika stoixeia h an eixate 48 wres periqwrio, qa ejafanizate ta stoixeia kai qa ejafanizosastan kai eseis;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Prwton, ej oswn gnwrizw, exoyn ginei hdh arketes prosagwges. Deyteron kai kyriotero, exei hdh syllhfqei apo thn perasmenh ebdomada kapoios poy feretai na einai epikefalhs mias omadas eknomwn sthn perioxh.

SARANTAKOS: Qa hqela na rwthsw, an h kybernhsh metaniwnei otan phre thn apofash na ejairesei ta Zwniana apo ton ``Kapodistria 1'', kati to opoio epeshmane kai o k. Nikhtas Kaklamanhs xqes, apeyqynomenos ston k. Paylopoylo.

ROYSOPOYLOS: O k. Kaklamanhs  nomizw- ekane mia genikh anafora. Alla en pash periptwsei egw de diermhneyw tis apoceis toy Dhmarxoy Aqhnaiwn. Einai sebastes oles oi apoceis. O k. Paylopoylos ekane, xqes, dhlwseis gia to qema ejw apo to Megaro Majimoy. Nomizw oti einai arketa endiaferoyses, na tis diabasei kaneis me prosektiko tropo, gia to ti synebaine epi xronia, otan ta Zwniana htan mia perioxh, h opoia sthn pragmatikothta htan ektos ``Kapodistria''.

SARANTAKOS: Na epimeinw, an moy epitrepete, o k. Paylopoylos milhse gia polla xronia poy yparxei ayto to aytonomo kratidio, en pash periptwsei, poy lene kai alloi boyleytes ths Neas Dhmokratias, wstoso, o k. Paylopoylos parelabe apo ton k. Polydwra to Ypoyrgeio Dhmosias Tajhs.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Akribws se ayto anaferomai. Se ayto poy elega prohgoymenws, anaferotan o k. Paylopoylos: Oti epi seira etwn den yphrxe sygkrothmenh dioikhsh sthn perioxh ek twn problhmatwn poy eixan gennhqei me ton prwto ``Kapodistria''. Den phgainan na chfisoyn -nomizw- oi katoikoi, den yphrxe leitoyrgia koinothtas k.o.k. Ayta htan problhmata poy ebgazan ektos Politeias, kalws h kakws  o kaqenas mporei na exei thn apoch toy se ayto- ena sygkekrimeno xwrio. Kai eipa kai xqes oti de mporei na kathgorei kapoios ena oloklhro xwrio, oyte oloys toys katoikoys toy xwrioy gia eknomes drasthriothtes orismenwn.

GKOYTZANHS: Kyrie Ekproswpe, gia thn prwth epixeirhsh fiasko poy eixe kai ta qymata me toys astynomikoys, qa anazhthqoyn eyqynes, qa apodoqoyn eyqynes sthn Astynomia;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Exete thn eykairia na kanete xarakthrismoys sthn efhmerida sas. Toys sebomai, bebaiws, alla exete bgalei hdh ``fetfa'', exete dhladh bgalei apofash oti h prwth epixeirhsh ths Astynomias apetyxe. Kai molis prin apo ligo sas eipa, oti h prwth epixeirhsh ths Astynomias, pro ebdomados, petyxe na syllabei ton feromeno ws epikefalhs mias tetoias omadas. Alla, de gnwrizw, se poia prwth epixeirhsh anafereste. Oi epixeirhseis poy jekinhsan apo xqes kai synexizontai shmera, einai epixeirhseis oi opoies exoyn hdh to apotelesma poy sas eipa prohgoymenws: Prosagwges anw twn 10 atomwn, mexri stigmhs.

GKOYTZANHS: Sth xqesinh poy empodisthke apo toys oploforoys, gnwrizete, kai eixame ta tria qymata astynomikoys, pyrobolhmenoys, se ayth thn epixeirhsh, asxeta se poio stadio qa thn entajoyme. Egw th lew apotyxhmenh. Ek toy apotelesmatos. Eseis pws th xarakthrizete;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Milate gia thn proxqesinh epixeirhsh, loipon, poy den htan h prwth twn teleytaiwn hmerwn, htan h deyterh kata seira. To erwthma sas poio einai; Pws xarakthrizw egw thn epixeirhsh;

GKOYTZANHS: Epeidh eipate oti einai ta sxolia moy gia thn efhmerida, swsto einai ayto. Egw thn xarakthrizw ``apotyxhmenh'' ek toy apotelesmatos. Th sygkekrimenh, eseis, pws th xarakthrizete;

ROYSOPOYLOS: De qa kanw kanena xarakthrismo gia epixeirhseis ths Astynomias. To shmantiko einai oti h Astynomia brisketai ekei kai prospaqei na dwsei lyseis se ena xronizon problhma. Kai elpizw na dwsei.

PALAIOLOGOS: Epeidh eipate prohgoymenws oti qa oloklhrwqoyn oi diafores prosagwges, eipate panw apo 10 atoma, aytes oi prosagwges aforoysan thn prwth epixeirhsh; Dhladh, sxetizontai me thn prwth epixeirhsh ths Astynomias;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Qa meinw se ayto poy elega arxikws, oti dhladh h Astynomia qa kanei tis anakoinwseis, oi opoies qa sas dwsoyn perissoteres leptomereies apo aytes poy mporw na sas dwsw egw sto press room.

PALAIOLOGOS: Me olo to qarros erwtw, giati kai xqes qa eidate kai eseis sta thleoptika deltia eidhsewn oti ontws, ayto poy eipe kai o synadelfos moy, xarakthristhke ws fiasko, oti htan apotyxhmenes, ej aitias toy sobaroy traymatismoy enos organoy ths tajhs. Me ayth loipon thn ennoia kai epeidh xarakthristhke etsi, qa yparjoyn eyqynes gi` ayta ta gegonota, gia ton tropo poy synebhsan kai gia th meqodologia thn opoia xrhsimopoihse h Astynomia sth deyterh epixeirhsh;

ROYSOPOYLOS: De gnwrizw poia meqodologia proteinete eseis h kapoioi alloi synadelfoi sas. Egw protimw na akoloyqhsoyme th meqodologia ths Astynomias, h opoia einai basismenh sthn empeiria kai sta dieqnh protypa. An yparxei meqodologia dhmosiografikh...

PALAIOLOGOS: Oxi, de milaw gia dhmosiografikh...

ROYSOPOYLOS: Stis meres moy tetoia proseggish enos qematos, den yphrxe. An yparxei dhmosiografikh meqodologia, gia to pws prepei na ginontai oi astynomikes epixeirhseis epitrecte moy na thn agnow kai na mh qelw kai na th maqw, en telei.

PALAIOLOGOS: Qa epanelqw sto erwthma toy k. Kakalh. H shmerinh tote epixeirhsh ths Astynomias, me ton tropo me ton opoio egine, dhladh me tis thleoptikes kameres apo konta, me olo ayto to mpoygio, sygnwmh gia thn ekfrash, alla einai mia laikh ekfrash poy xarakthrizei...

ROYSOPOYLOS: Na sas kanw mia erwthsh;

PALAIOLOGOS: Bebaiws.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Sas epebale kapoios na erqete edw plhn ths doyleias sas kai toy kanalioy sas;

PALAIOLOGOS: Oxi.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Sas epebale kapoios apo thn kybernhsh; Egw sas epebala pote na erqete sto press room;

PALAIOLOGOS: Oxi bebaia. Oyte me apotrecate bebaiws.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Giati, loipon, moy lete oti oi kameres pane wsan na to exei epibalei h Politeia sta kanalia; Dhladh, oysiastika dynamitizete thn aytonomia thn opoia exete ws dhmosiografos me ayto poy lete.

PALAIOLOGOS: Prospaqw...

ROYSOPOYLOS: Den phgainoyn eleyqera oi kameres kai oi dhmosiografoi sto reportaz toys; Exoyn allajei ta pragmata kai den to gnwrizw;

PALAIOLOGOS: Na kanw to synhgoro toy diaboloy...

ROYSOPOYLOS: Me sygxwreite, perigrafete mia ypoqesh me tropo o opoios einai lanqasmenos h en pash periptwsei den einai alhqhs.

PALAIOLOGOS: Egw omws na kanw to synhgoro toy diaboloy.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Ti ennoeite; Oti h Astynomia phre tis kameres me to zori kai eipe elate mazi na trabhjete ta plana sas;

PALAIOLOGOS: Oxi, ennow oti htan mia proanaggelqeisa epixeirhsh. Den htan jafnikh, den htan mia kinhsh aifnidiastikh kai einai kinhsh peripoy anamenomenh. Gegonos poy sthn prajh metafrazetai oti kai oi anqrwpoi toys opoioys afora qa htan plhrws enhmerwmenoi gia olh ayth thn epixeirhsh ths Astynomias. Den qa jerane ti wra qa erqei h Astynomia, ti wra qa kanei thn kinhsh, ti wra qa ginoyn oi prosagwges, poy qa ginoyn endexomenws oi prosagwges. Ayto prospaqw na pw me thn ennoia ths thleoptikhs kalychs. Oti htan mia programmatismenh  proanaggelqeisa epixeirhsh. O k. Kakalhs thn eipe skhnoqethmenh. Gi` ayto kai lew, h meqodologia sthn prokeimenh periptwsh htan h synadoysa;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Ma, molis prin apo ligh wra apanthsa se dyo erwthseis -kai h mia ek twn opoiwn htan malista dikh sas- oti ta ths meqodologias ths Astynomias den einai gia na kriqoyn apo mena. Mporei eseis na krinete o,ti qelete, alla se kaqe periptwsh h Astynomia -kaqe Astynomia ston kosmo- akoloyqei mia meqodo stis epixeirhseis ths.

GKOYTZANHS: Katarxhn, elpizw otan ginei polemikh zwnh kai to briefing na mas prostatecete kai na mhn mas epitrecete na mpoyme.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Qa kanw ta adynata dynata.

GKOYTZANHS: Akoloyqws, qa hqela na sas rwthsw ean qa synexistoyn oi ereynes kai se ena allo epipedo, sto epipedo toy an yparxei politikh prostasia se ayto to kratos twn Zwnianwn h genikws ychlh prostasia, opws exei kataggelqei.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Aporriptw diarrhdhn tyxon yponoies. Den qewrw oti yparxei boyleyths toy ellhnikoy Koinoboylioy, se opoio komma kai an anhkei, o opoios na kanei ayta ta opoia eipate eseis twra, anaferomenos se kapoies kataggelies. Den gnwrizw se poies kataggelies anafereste, alla an einai diko sas erwthma h einai kataggelies kapoioy, opoioydhpote, ofeilei na tis kanei dhmosia aytos o kapoios. Den qewrw sobarh thn proseggish aytoy toy eidoys sto qema.

GKOYTZANHS: Den qelw na sygkekrimenopoihsw proswpo. Lew oti kai apo th dieqnh empeiria opoy exoyme paromoia fainomena apo th Sikelia mexri opoydhpote, polles fores yparxoyn politikes diasyndeseis h diasyndeseis me epixeirhmatikoys paragontes. Ayth thn ptyxh qa thn ereynhsei h Astynomia, oi armodies arxes;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Prwton, exw kanei mia politikh dhlwsh aporriptontas thn opoiadhpote diasyndesh kai pisteyontas oti den yparxei kamia diasyndesh me kanenan poy na einai politikws drwn se opoiodhpote politiko komma toy Koinoboylioy. Ayth einai mia epishmansh. Deyteron, h Astynomia sthn ereyna ths qa mas dwsei kapoia apotelesmata kapoia stigmh. Egw qa perimenw na dw poia qa einai ayta ta apotelesmata.

N. PAPADHMHTRIOY: Kyrie Ypoyrge, na rwthsw kati se synexeia kapoioy stoixeioy to opoia anaferate prohgoymenws. Giati me to na mhn exei mia perioxh sygkekrimenh dioikhsh, dhladh, pio apla, me to na mhn entassetai se Kapodistriako dhmo to syndeete me thn apoysia thrhshs toy nomoy;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Den jerw an katalabate kala thn apanthsh moy h an den th diatypwsa swsta. Apanthsa dieykrinizontas ayto poy eipe hdh xqes o k. Paylopoylos ejw apo to Megaro Majimoy.

N. PAPADHMHTRIOY: An moy epitrepete, exw shmeiwsei oti ``den yphrxe sygkrothmenh dioikhsh''...

ROYSOPOYLOS: Exei shmasia kai to erwthma poy moy egine. To erwthma, loipon, htan dieykrinistiko gia ta osa eipe o k. Paylopoylos. Kai eipa oti o k. Paylopoylos anaferotan sto oti epi seira etwn ayth h perioxh den eixe organwmenh koinothta. Oi katoikoi hrnoynto nomizw na pane kai na chfisoyn kai den leitoyrgoyse opws leitoyrgei kaqe perioxh ths xwras, kaqe polh, kaqe koinothta. Ayto einai ena problhma. Nomizw oti to katanoei o kaqenas.

N. PAPADHMHTRIOY: Nai, alla apo thn allh dikaiologei kai thn apoysia thrhshs toy nomoy;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Kaqoloy. Gi` ayto kai symplhrwsa, sth synexeia, ayto poy eixa pei kai xqes, oti den mporoyme na qewroyme oti ena oloklhro xwrio einai paranomo. To exw pei apo xqes ayto.

KAKALHS: Epeidh anarwthqhkate prohgoymenws ean h Astynomia kalese h an qa mporoyse na empodisei ta kanalia. Synhqws h Astynomia stis epixeirhseis ths den kalei ta kanalia kai apodeijh oti sto prohgoymeno mploko poy eixan paei den yphrxan konta kameres, opws kai se kaqe mploko poy kanei h Astynomia den yparxoyn kameres. Opote qelei na einai oi kameres, einai ekei oi kameres. Gi` ayto lew poy aposkopoyse to...

ROYSOPOYLOS: Sas eipa prohgoymenws oti h Astynomia eixe dwsei hdh odhgies. Exei kanei systaseis pros toys dhmosiografoys oi opoioi briskontai sthn perioxh, gia to pws prepei na kinoyntai kai poy prepei na kinoyntai. Apo kei kai pera, nomizw oti den einai mia h dyo h treis oi fores opoy dhmosiografoi  ekana ki egw ayto to epaggelma epi 20 xronia- jefeygoyn apo ton kanona ton opoion mporei na qesei h Astynomia epeidh diafwnoyn h epeidh pisteyoyn oti etsi qa kanoyn kalytera th doyleia toys. Egw den katakrinw ton dhmosiografo.

KAKALHS: (Den akoygetai).

ROYSOPOYLOS: Nai, den katakrinw ton dhmosiografo, an o dhmosiografos qelhsei na mpei se mia perioxh h opoia einai epikindynh. Emena den me piese kaneis, otan hmoyn dhmosiografos, na paw sth Bosnia kai phga dyo fores. Qelw na pw oti den moy eipe kapoios oti einai epikindyna, gnwriza oti einai epikindyna. Polloi ej ymwn, to gnwrizete poly kala kalyptontas reportaz. Blepw ton k. Blabiano o opoios exei paei kai se polemikes zwnes. Den nomizw na ton piese kapoios na paei, hjere oti einai etsi ta pragmata. Na jefygoyme omws apo thn polemikh zwnh ths Bosnias h toy Koybeit kai na pame sta dika mas. Ginetai mia systash ston dhmosiografo na mhn einai se perioxes stis opoies mporei na kindyneysei h zwh toys. Ean o dhmosiografos apo mia efhmerida, apo ena kanali qelhsei na paei, gnwrizete kallion emoy, oti qa paei. Den shmainei amesws-amesws ayto oti prepei na kathgorhsoyme thn Astynomia pws toys phre gia na skhnoqethsei kati. Sto katw  katw, mexri stigmhs, mono kathgories akoyw na akoyei h Astynomia.

KAKALHS: Nai, alla otan qelei h Astynomia menoyme makria. Apokleiei to xwro kai ayto symbainei synhqws...

ROYSOPOYLOS: Milame gia kapoies xiliades tetragwnika metra.

SARANTAKOS: O k. Markogiannakhs xqes, milwntas se radiofwniko staqmo  ston ALPHA an den kanw laqos- eipe oti yparxoyn astynomikoi oi opoioi gnwrizoyn poioi kinoyn ta nhmata sta Zwniana. Mia kataggelia poy exei idiaitero endiaferon, giati proerxetai apo enan anqrwpo o opoios exei diatelesei sto Ypoyrgeio Dhmosias Tajhs. Skepteste na to ejetasete parapanw; Na fwnajete ton k. Markogiannakh na sas pei ti ennoei; Na ejhghsei ayth thn kataggelia poy kanei;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Den gnwrizw thn akribh kataggelia, alla ean einai etsi opws moy th lete, exei sigoyra poly megalo endiaferon, kaqoson opws eipate orqws, htan Yfypoyrgos Dhmosias Tajews. Qewrw, loipon, bebaio oti qa dwsei ta stoixeia ta opoia diaqetei ston nyn Ypoyrgo Eswterikwn kai Dhmosias Tajews k. Paylopoylo.

KAKALHS: Kai ston Eisaggelea.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Ennoeitai.

TSIOYFOS: Fantazomai oti qa symfwneite oti h taktikh poy akoloyqhsan oi polites apexontas apo oles tis diadikasies olo to prohgoymeno diasthma, eite ayto htan ekloges h otidhpote allo, htan mia piesh, enas ekbiasmos isws pros thn kybernhsh na apodexqei to aithma toys na aposxistoyn apo ton ``Kapodistria'', apo ton kapodistriako dhmo, gia na to poyme swstotera. Ayto to ypainixqhke xqes kai o k. Kaklamanhs. Eipe, an qymamai kala, twra apodeiknyetai giati egine ayto. Telika, h kybernhsh aisqanetai oti enedwse se aytes tis pieseis, se ayto ton ekbiasmo tote;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Qewrw oti h xrhsh ths lejews poy kanete, einai baria kai ennow th lejh ``ekbiasmos''. Giati etsi oysiastika qa mporoyse na pei kapoios, apo mia aristerh logikh ean qelete  ean den sas aresei h dikh moy logikh- oti kathgoroyme ws ekbiasth kaqenan poy diekdikei. Kaqenas poy diekdikei kati den einai ekbiasths. Dhladh, o maqhths o opoios mpainei sto sxoleio kai diekdikei  paroti egw diafwnw me ton tropo poy diekdikei- den qewrw oti einai ekbiasths. Pote den qa ton xarakthrisw etsi. Yp` aythn thn ennoia, qa ekana thn prwth moy parathrhsh, legontas pws den qewrw oti einai dokimos o oros. Prwton ayto.

TSIOYFOS: Xrhsimopoihsa dyo ekfraseis. Eipa ``pieseis'', eipa ``ekbiasmo''. As paroyme thn prwth, thn piesh.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Deyteron: Gnwrizoyme poly kala  einai qema poy syzhthqhke epi polla xronia, grafthkan polles analyseis- to pws egine o ``Kapodistrias 1''. Kai gnwrizoyme oti yphrjan periptwseis opoy oi antidraseis twn koinothtwn edrazontan se kata to mallon logika aithmata. H Nea Dhmokratia otan htan sthn antipoliteysh eixe pei oti otan ginei kybernhsh qa frontisei na lysei ta problhmata ekeina, ta opoia eixe anaferei kai epigrammatika enw htan sthn antipoliteysh. Kai ayto epraje otan egine kybernhsh.

TSIOYFOS: Qewreite, dhladh, oti kai ta aithmata twn katoikwn ekei, htan sto plaisio aytwn poy lete ``logikwn aithmatwn''; Htan logika ek toy apotelesmatos;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Me sygxwreite, edw qa diafwnhsoyme kai pali. Dioti egw den qewrw oti ena oloklhro xwrio einai paranomo.

TSIOYFOS: Profanws. Kai egw den to qewrw.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Egw den qewrw oti oi katoikoi enos xwrioy, ean diekdikoyn th dioikhtikh toys aytoteleia, amesws-amesws prepei na syndeqoyn me paranomes energeies, opws aytes poy paroysiazontai enwpion ths koinhs gnwmhs tis teleytaies hmeres. Pros Qeoy! Nomizw oti einai adiko gia oloys.

ROYMELIWTHS: Se ena allo qema, ean oloklhrwqhke to prohgoymeno. Einai gnwsth h qesh sas na mh sxoliazete dhlwseis Proedrwn Anejarthtwn Arxwn h akoma kai dikastikwn. Omws, shmera eixame mia dhlwsh toy k. Zormpa sthn armodia Epitroph ths Boylhs oti den exei idea, den gnwrizei poy einai to porisma toy. Ayto den einai ena politiko qema;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Eilikrinws den gnwrizw kan th dhlwsh, alla kai na th gnwriza den qa sxoliaza.

STAQOPOYLOS: Me aformh th synanthsh poy exei ayth thn wra o Prwqypoyrgos me thn Aleka Paparhga, alloi politikoi arxhgoi exoyn zhthsei synanthsh me ton Prwqypoyrgo;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Den gnwrizw kati tetoio, ayth th stigmh. Qa enhmerwqw kai qa sas apanthsw.

SPYRAKH: Jerete, twra egw qa sas rwthsw gia thn oysia: Poy einai to porisma Zormpa;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Sta sobara me rwtate;

SPYRAKH: Nai, sta sobara sas rwtw, giati to eqese o idios o syntakths toy porismatos, legontas oti den gnwrizei.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Qa sas apanthsw oti yparxei Syntagma, yparxoyn nomoi kai throyntai.

KAKALHS: Na epanelqw sto prohgoymeno qema twn Zwnianwn. Poio qa einai to epomeno bhma; Prokeitai na egkatastaqei astynomikh dynamh sto xwrio monima; Astynomiko Tmhma, dhladh, isxyro...

ROYSOPOYLOS: Den to jerw. Alla ean ypoqesoyme oti to hjera kai to apantoysa, qa moy legate pali oti prodidw apo prin ta sxedia ths Astynomias kai qa akoloyqoyse olh h syzhthsh poy akoloyqhse prohgoymenws.

KAKALHS :Politikh apofash einai.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Allh erwthsh.

PALAIOLOGOS: Gia to sygkekrimeno xwrio, as poyme, to opoio kata thn apoch moy einai aytonomo kratidio, alla exete ypoch sas tis dhlwseis toy k. Papandreoy, o opoios episkefqhke shmera thn eyryterh perioxh;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Den tis gnwrizw. Qa synexisete, omws, to test poy qelete na moy kanete;

PALAIOLOGOS: Oxi, den einai test. Epeidh anefere oti epi xronia einai enas topos paragontismoy, parasitismoy, pelateiakhs ejarthshs kai sthn oysia se olo ayto to plegma poy to xarakthrizei  to apedwse me ta kosmhtika epiqeta- apodidei olh ayth thn istoria sta Zwniana kai to gegonos oti peripoy einai kratos en kratei.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Qa htan adokimo na sxoliasw kati to opoio den exw diabasei ep` akribws. Opote den qelw oyte na dhmioyrghsw entypwseis. Giati me ayto poy moy lete, antilambanomai oti yparxei mia epiqesh se mia perioxh oloklhrh. Den nomizw na exei ginei apo politiko arxhgo epiqesh se mia perioxh oloklhrh.

GKOYTZANHS: Sthn kybernhsh yparxei.

PALAIOLOGOS: Einai epiqesh sthn kybernhsh. Nomizw oti ennoei oti afhse na ejelixqei se xwro paragontismoy kai parasitismoy. Epeidh ermhneyw, as poyme...

ROYSOPOYLOS: Ennoei o k. Papandreoy ta triamisi xronia, enw prin den yphrxe tipota;

SARANTAKOS: O k. Dhmosxakhs kai o k. Bitorakhs, o astynomikos dieyqynths ths Krhths, apolambanoyn ths empistosynhs ths politikhs hgesias toy Ypoyrgeioy;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Gia na einai sth qesh toys...

MELIGKWNHS: Me aformh thn episkech toy k. Alabanoy sth FYROM kai tis synanthseis poy exei me thn politikh hgesia ths geitonos, oi opoies ejelissontai ayth th stigmh, qa hqela na sas rwthsw ean qewrei h kybernhsh pws den einai politikws orqh h energeia toy k. Alabanoy. Kai to rwtw ayto, giati hdh yphrjan antidraseis kai apo thn pleyra toy LAOS, poy eipe oti, telos pantwn, h politikh hgesia mias xwras prepei na einai enwmenh kai na mhn bgainei o kaqenas na kanei diapragmateyseis kai na einai koino to metwpo.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Emeis exoyme anaptyjei th qesh mas gia ta zhthmata twn Skopiwn. Apo ekei kai pera, kaqe komma einai eleyqero na kinhqei me dhlwseis h me erga opws ekeino krinei. Kai krinetai apo toys polites.

KWNSTANTINIDHS: Ofeile na synanthqei me ton Ypoyrgo epi twn Ejwterikwn, na enhmerwqei, prin paei o k. Alabanos;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Ti ennoeite; An yparxei kapoios graptos nomos; Den yparxei.

KAKALHS: Tis shmerines dhlwseis toy k. Papandreoy den tis gnwrizete, eipate. Alla qa jerete, asfalws, tis xqesines kata twn symferontwn, oti to PASOK den ypokyptei sta afentika twn MME k.t.l. Pisteyete oti ayth h kampania kata twn symferontwn, poy pragmatopoiei ayto to diasthma o Proedros toy PASOK, einai antigrafh ths antistoixhs kampanias poy ekane o Prwqypoyrgos, o k. Karamanlhs, kata twn diaplekomenwn kai pisteyete oti qa exoyn thn idia tyxh;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Ej oswn gnwrizw kai to PASOK exei ekproswpo Typoy, opote mporeite na apeyqynqeite se ayton.

KAKALHS: Oxi, rwtw ean ektimate oti qa exoyn thn idia tyxh h kampania toy k. Papandreoy me ayth poy eixe...

SPYRAKH: Qa hqela na sas rwthsw gia to Asfalistiko. Yparxei opws fainetai mia apoklish, mia diafora anamesa se ayto poy o k. Alogoskoyfhs etoimazetai na dwsei estw kai me thn morfh twn omologwn ws epixorhghsh sto IKA - ETAM kai mia diaforetikh morfh diekdikhshs ofeilomenwn kata thn GSEE apo to dhmosio. Qelw na sas rwthsw an h kybernhsh skeftetai na janadei to qema toy posostoy toy proypologismoy h einai sygkekrimeno ayto to 1% poy anakoinwse o k. Alogoskoyfhs. Kai epishs an h kybernhsh protiqetai kai xwris th symmetoxh orismenwn ek twn koinwnikwn etairwn sto dialogo na proxwrhsei stis diorqwtikes kinhseis sto Asfalistiko tis opoies exei hdh ejaggeilei.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Oson afora to prwto skelos ths erwthshs sas qelw na sas qymisw oti me to nomo toy 2002, toy tote Ypoyrgoy Ergasias kai Apasxolhshs k. Reppa, problefqhke oti gia thn epomenh 5etia ews to 2008, kaqe xrono qa bgainei apo ton proypologismo ths xwras kai qa mpainei sta Tameia toy IKA 1% toy AEP. Ayto den thrhqhke ta prwta xronia me apotelesma ayto to 1% na menei ws ypoxrewsh ths Politeias. To syzhthsame, malista kai edw, pro oligwn hmerwn. Sygkentrwqhke loipon, ofeilomeno poso ths tajews toy 1,5 dis eyrw. Ayto to poso eipe o k. Alogoskoyfhs oti qa mpei apo ton proypologismo toy epomenoy etoys sto IKA. Kai etsi h Politeia qa jeplhrwsei to xreos ths gia aythn thn 5etia. O idios nomos proeblepe oti apo to 2008 ews to 2032 - kaqe xrono pia - den einai dynhtiko to 1%. Giati sthn prwth 5etia htan ypoxrewtiko men to 1%, alla afhne mia elastikothta: Th mia xronia mporei na htan 0,5 thn allh na htan 1,5. Apo to 2008 kai meta, o idios nomos proeblepe oti kaqe xrono to 1% qa eprepe na kataballetai ypoxrewtika. Kai ayto eipe o k. Alogoskoyfhs kai qa akoloyqhsoyme. Moy epanalambanete to deytero skelos ths erwthshs sas;

SPYRAKH: An exete apofasisei na proxwrhsete stis allages poy exete ejaggeilei gia to Asfalistiko akoma kai xwris th symmetoxh orismenwn ek twn koinwnikwn etairwn sto dialogo.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Prwton, emeis exoyme apofasisei na proxwrhsoyme ston dialogo. Ara, o dialogos einai to prwto stadio. Kai exoyme apodeijei oti me dialogo kinhqhkame se ola ta megala qemata qelontas na akoysoyme kai toys ypoloipoys symmetexontes, eite einai kommata, eite koinwnikoi etairoi. Eyxhs ergon einai oi koinwnikoi etairoi na metexoyn sto dialogo dinontas tis protaseis toys, dioti mh metexontas den dinoyn kai mhnyma - nomizw -pragmatikoy endiaferontos gia thn oysia toy qematos. An den metexoyn, edw qa eimaste na to janasyzhthsoyme.

SPYRAKH: Yparxei dedomenh arnhsh gia ayto to lew.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Gnwrizete oti h Politeia leitoyrgei. Dhladh, h kybernhsh leitoyrgei. H Boylh leitoyrgei.

PALAIOLOGOS: Me dedomenh thn arnhsh twn koinwnikwn etairwn na proselqoyn poso qa krathsei o dialogos; Den exei enan peperasmeno orizonta;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Qa to doyme. Akoma den arxisame.

N. PAPADHMHTRIOY: To qema poy qa sas rwthsw den einai shmerino alla qa hqela th qesh ths kybernhshs. Poia einai loipon h qesh, an yparxei qema gia th kybernhsh germanikwn ofeilwn kai epanorqwsewn gia thn periodo ths Katoxhs;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Nomizw oti exw erwthqei gia to qema pro pollwn mhnwn, an oxi etwn. Qa meinw se ayto poy exw pei. Den qa to qymaste oyte eseis. An qelete na to epanaferw kapoia stigmh.

Sas eyxaristw.

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