Greek Government Press Briefing, 05-11-28

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From: The Hellenic Ministry of Press & Mass Media <http://www.minpress.gr/>

Aqhna, 28 Noembrioy 2005

APO TON YPOYRGO EPIKRATEIAS KAI KYBERNHTIKO EKPROSWPO

QEODWRO ROYSOPOYLO

Xairete kai kalh ebdomada.

O Prwqypoyrgos, ayrio stis 13:30, qa milhsei se ekdhlwsh, h opoia qa pragmatopoihqei sthn Aiglh toy Zappeioy, me aformh ta 30 xronia apo thn idrysh toy Kentroy Politikhs Ereynas kai Epikoinwnias.

Parakalw tis erwthseis sas.

PALAIOLOGOS: O k. Palaiokrassas kathggeile xqes ena systhma idiaiterhs mafias opws eipe, poy diairei toys Ellhnes se prostates kai prostateyomenoys. Ekane logo gia orxhstra diaplokhs, sthn opoia symperilambanei opws eipe ws organa ta Mesa Enhmerwshs, ypallhloys twn DEKO kai ws maestroys ta ychlobaqma politika stelexh Ypoyrgeiwn. Den gnwrizw poion fwtografise. H erwthseis moy einai dyo. Prwton, poio einai to sxolio ths kybernhshs kai an yphrje epikoinwnia me ton k. Palaiokrassa.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Einai profanes oti anaferetai se ypoqeseis tis opoies o idios exei steilei ston eisaggelea kai bebaiws perimenoyme tis apofaseis ths dikaiosynhs. O k. Palaiokrassas perigrafei mia katastash poy brhke sth DEH. Mia katastash gia thn opoia -kai me th dikh toy symbolh- ginetai prospaqeia na allajei. Nai, epikoinwnhsa mazi toy to prwi kai moy epibebaiwse ayta poy sas anaferw twra.

KORAH: O k. Palaiokrassas omws, milaei gia diakommatikh mafia sto qema ths diaplokhs. Dhladh, akomh kai palaiotera htan kai to PASOK kai h Nea Dhmokratia eixan synwmothsei gia th diaplokh;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Sth synenteyjh toy anaferei -kai deite to epi lejei parakalw- oti o idios sto parelqon eixe milhsei gia th ``diakommatikh mafia''. Ara, loipon, epibebaiwnei ayto poy sas lew. Anaferetai se ypoqeseis toy parelqontos stis opoies o idios mazi me ta melh toy Dioikhtikoy Symboylioy kai thn ypoloiph dioikhsh toy organismoy, prospaqoyn na dwsoyn lysh.

KORAH: Dhladh anagnwrizete oti kai h Nea Dhmokratia symmeteixe; Yioqetei ayth thn apoch toy k. Palaiokrassa h kybernhsh;

ROYSOPOYLOS: O k. Palaiokrassas dhlwnei ayta ta opoia diabasate sth synenteyjh toy. Egw sas eipa, poia einai h ermhneia thn opoia didei kai o idios kai poia einai kai h qesh ths kybernhshs.

XIWTHS: O k. Palaiokrassas anaferei epishs sth synenteyjh toy oti h kybernhsh den katanoei oti h DEH einai mia idiwtikh epixeirhsh poy prepei na leitoyrgei me idiwtikooikonomika krithria. Anaferei xarakthristika oti h kybernhsh epidiwkei na leitoyrgei ws mia kratikh epixeirhsh kai profanws anaferetai sthn timologiakh politikh ths DEH. Gi` ayto exete na kanete kapoio sxolio;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Sebomai tis apoceis olwn. Ekeino poy exei megalh shmasia einai oti h kybernhsh lambanei apofaseis se sxesh me thn timologiakh politikh se diaforoys tomeis paroxhs koinwnikwn yphresiwn. H hlektrodothsh einai mia koinwnikh yphresia kai me bash th dikh ths politikh kateyqynsh, proxwraei se apofaseis.

BLAXOS: Ti einai ayto poy sas ekane na aisqanqeite thn anagkh to prwi na thlefwnhsete ston k. Palaiokrassa, ti ton rwthsate, ti qelate na dieykrinisete, efoson ap` o,ti katalabainw, diabasate kai th synenteyjh toy;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Epikoinwnw me melh ths kybernhshs kai me stelexh dioikhsewn organismwn ta opoia exoyn topoqethqei apo thn kybernhsh. Den einai kati to opoio apotelei eidhsh. Den qa pw tipote perissotero.

MPOTSARAKOS: Erwthqhke o k. Palaiokrassas apo sas, poion koryfaio politiko paragonta ypoyrgeioy ennooyse oti enorxhstrwnei thn epiqesh enantion toy;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Exw apanthsei sto qema. Den qa pw tipote perissotero.

FILHS: Gia allo qema. H erwthsh einai h ejhs: An h kybernhsh protiqetai na synexisei toys elegxoys eis baros orismenwn trapezwn poy emplekontai se mia ypoqesh aforologhtwn idiwtikwn kataqesewn sto ejwteriko, apo thn opoia to ellhniko dhmosio (den akoygetai) xanei 600 ekatommyria eyrw.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Den gnwrizw thn ypoqesh sthn opoia anafereste kai qa apanthsw genika: Prwton, den qewrw oti oi elegxoi einai eis baros kapoioy. Oi elegxoi einai yper toy dhmosioy symferontos, efoson ayto epiballei to dhmosio symferon. Kai deyteron, efoson yparxoyn ypoqeseis poy prepei na elegxqoyn, nai, aytes elegxontai kai qa synexisoyn na elegxontai apo to armodio Ypoyrgeio.

FILHS: An einai dynaton, estw ayrio@ Einai sobaro qema, giati to poso einai poly megalytero@

ROYSOPOYLOS: Den amfisbhtw th sobarothta toy qematos, aplws den exw enhmerwqei eidika gia to qema poy moy anaferete.

SARANTAKOS: Ayrio qa synedriasei h Kybernhtikh Epitroph me qema to nomosxedio gia tis DEKO;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Qa anakoinwsw argotera to apogeyma gia to qema poy qa syzhthqei sth synedriash ths Kybernhtikhs Epitrophs.

KAKALHS: Eixate anaferei me kathgorhmatiko tropo oti den qa yparjei kanenas neos xwros to 2006. O ypoyrgos Oikonomias k. Alogoskoyfhs, omws, dhlwse se kyriakatikh synenteyjh toy oti den mporoyme na poyme oti den qa yparjei kamia kainoyria forologia. Ayth h diglwssia einai skopimh gia na diaskedastoyn oi entypwseis gia tis epomenes forologikes epidromes;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Anefera epi lejei oti den yparxei kanenas neos foros ston proypologismo toy 2006. Gnwrizete to megeqos toy dhmosionomikoy problhmatos, to opoio exei episwreysei mia politikh pollwn etwn kai to opoio parelabe ayth h kybernhsh. H oikonomikh politikh ths kybernhshs petyxe mesa se mikro xroniko diasthma na meiwsei kata ena poly megalo pososto, to elleimma kai na diathrhsei poly megaloys ryqmoys anaptyjhs, diplasioys apo ton meso eyrwpaiko oro. Kai kineitai akribws sth logikh ths apofyghs prosqetwn ryqmisewn.

SIDERHS: O k. Kokkinoylhs den hrqe ekei poy miloysate proxqes. Antipaqei esas h exei problhma me thn agrotikh politikh ths kybernhshs;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Mh ejagete symperasmata gia to poios erxetai h den erxetai se kapoia omilia.

SIDERHS: Yparxoyn paroysies kai apoysies poy exoyn shmeiologikh proektash kai politika symperasmata@

ROYSOPOYLOS: Apo tote poy teleiwsa to gymnasio den kratw apoysiologio. Allwste den to krathsa oyte sto gymnasio.

SIDERHS: Otan den sas symferei.

BLAXOS: Yparxei qema prowrwn eklogwn;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Oxi.

KORAH: Qa epanelqw sto qema toy k. Palaiokrassa. Diabazw aytolejei th dhlwsh toy gia na mhn peite oti kanoyme dikes mas ermhneies. Leei loipon o k. Palaiokrassas: ``O Andreas Papandreoy to eixe apokalesei katesthmeno. Argotera ejwraisthke ws diaplokh. Ston Prwqypoyrgo apodidetai -ton k. Karamanlh ennoei- h realistikh perigrafh ws @ntabatzhdes@ oi opoioi omws den doyleyoyn monoi. Egw to exw apokalesei sto parelqon systhma idiotyphs mafias poy diairei toys Ellhnes se prostates kai prostateyomenoys. Kai sto systhma ayto o mhxanismos anti na einai ths agoras, einai -xrhsimopoiei enestwta- ths taktopoihshs kai toy bolematos. Ola ryqmizontai kai exoyn thn timh toys''. Leei ayta ta pragmata gia kati poy ginotan, as poyme to 2000 h to 2002 kai xrhsimopoiei enestwta; Den jerei kala ellhnika o k. Palaiokrassas;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Exw ejantlhsei tis apanthseis gia to qema poy anaferate. Qa qymisw ekeino poy exw pei se ayth thn aiqoysa. Den einai prosklhsh oyte paraklhsh toy Prwqypoyrgoy, alla einai entolh toy Prwqypoyrgoy, opoio stelexos ths kybernhshs h toy eyryteroy dhmosioy tomea exei to opoiodhpote stoixeio, na prosfeygei sth dikaiosynh.

LEONTITSH: Kyrie Ekproswpe, o k. Karaxalios milwntas shmera sto radiofwno toy ALPHA, eipe oti yparxoyn orismenoi dioikhtes twn DEKO, metrhmenoi sta daktyla bebaia, poy den synergazontai me toys ypoyrgoys kai bebaia aytoi feroyn politikh eyqynh. H kybernhsh ektima, symmerizetai aytes tis apoceis kai an tis symmerizetai, skeftetai diorqwtikes allages stis DEKO;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Oson afora to deytero skelos ths erwthshs sas, den mporw na sas apanthsw. Oson afora to prwto, den gnwrizw pws exei anaferqei sth dhlwsh toy, alla sthn kaqhmerinothta mporei na yparxoyn diaforetikes apoceis, diaforetikes proseggiseis. H prospaqeia mias kybernhshs, alla kai twn stelexwn toy eyryteroy dhmosioy tomea poy exoyn topoqethqei se dioikhtikes qeseis apo thn kybernhsh, einai na lynontai ta problhmata. H antiparaqesh, polles fores, fernei kati qetiko. Den einai mono arnhtikh.

KAKALHS: H katarghsh toy foroy 20% (den akoygetai). An ayth h diatajh den einai o orismos ths diaplokhs, tote ti einai;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Apotelei mia prospaqeia gia thn tonwsh ths agoras ths diafhmishs h opoia einai poly megalh agora. Einai mia prospaqeia poy eimaste bebaioi oti qa apoferei esoda sto Ellhniko Dhmosio apo to Foro Prostiqemenhs Ajias.

KAKALHS: (Den akoygetai)

ROYSOPOYLOS: Qa apodeixqei sthn prajh.

KYRITSHS: Qewreite oti den eixe arketh diafhmish h thleorash kai xreiazotan perissoterh; Olo diafhmiseis einai.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Oytws h allws, gnwrizete oti yparxei Koinotikh Odhgia toylaxiston yperdekaetoys isxyos, h opoia problepei ton diafhmistiko xrono ana wra. Ara loipon, den mporei se kamia periptwsh na yperbei kapoios ayton ton diafhmistiko xrono. Sas qymizw oti einai dwdeka lepta thn wra kai den exei allajei edw kai para polla xronia.

BLAXOS: Ara ti to kanate afoy yparxei ena orio;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Apanthsa oti den prokeitai na ayjhqei o xronos. Opws gnwrizete, oi diafhmiseis sthn thleorash exoyn sygkekrimeno xrono. Den shmainei oti aytos o xronos ejantleitai. Sas lew oti me ayto to metro ginetai mia prospaqeia tonwshs ths agoras ths diafhmishs, mias megalhs anerxomenhs agoras. Qelw na sas qymisw oti einai ena metro to opoio eixe lhfqei prin apo peripoy dyo dekaeties. Sthn poreia to metro ayto kai apo thn prohgoymenh kybernhsh, fanhke oti den apedwse ta anamenomena. Qa mporoyse na apodwsei kalytera ean eixe doqei megalyterh eleyqeria sthn agora ths diafhmishs. Ayth h eleyqeria doqhke se ena pososto ths tajhs toy 5% h 10% apo thn prohgoymenh kybernhsh kai synexizei kai ayth h kybernhsh gia thn epomenh dietia.

SIDERHS: Ekeino poy blepoyme san ameso apotelesma einai na mhn plhrwnoyn foro oi kanalarxes.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Oxi, milame gia eidiko foro. Gia na mhn yparjei parejhghsh einai allo o eidikos foros kai allo o Foros Prostiqemenhs Ajias. Edw milame gia enan epipleon foro o opoios eixe mpei sthn thleoptikh diafhmish stis arxes ths dekaetias toy @80 gia thn eleysh ths egxrwmhs thleorashs. Enas eidikos foros o opoios den isxyei se alles xwres. Sas anefera toys logoys gia toys opoioys odhgoymaste s@ ayth thn apofash.

SIDERHS: Ayto ennooysa kyrie Ekproswpe. Katalabainomaste. Alla poy aposkopei;

ROYSOPOYLOS: To anefera prohgoymenws.

SIDERHS: Mhpws gia na proselkysete, opws eipe kai o synadelfos, toys kanalarxes, se mia pio filikh stash pros esas kai thn kybernhsh sas, twra poy xeimazetai;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Den gnwrizw, an me ayto ypainisseste oti oi idiokthtes twn thleoptikwn staqmwn me tetoioy eidoys metra qa einai pio filikoi pros thn kybernhsh. Ayto, qa moy epitrecete na pw , perikleiei mia epikindynh apoch, oti dhladh oi dhmosiografoi, den kanoyn eleyqera th doyleia toys, alla kanoyn oti toys lene oi idiokthtes twn kanaliwn. Egw den yioqetw ayth thn apoch.

POYLIDOY: Se synexeia ths erwthshs ths k. Korah fantazomai oti den einai stis entoles toy prwqypoyrgoy oi dhmosies kataggelies (den akoygetai).

ROYSOPOYLOS: Se kaqe periptwsh isxyei ayto poy eipa prohgoymenws.

POYLIDOY: Nai. O k. Polyzos ara ti to diaforetiko ekane;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Den exei kamia sxesh to ena me to allo. Einai teleiws diaforetikes oi ypoqeseis.

POYLIDOY: Tis idies dhlwseis ekane kai o enas kai o allos.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Qa moy epitrecete na pw oti einai diaforetikes ypoqeseis.

POYLIDOY: Giati einai diaforetikes; Na mas dieykrinisete gia na katalaboyme kai emeis.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Nomizw oti analyqhke para poly to qema toy k. Palaiokrasa. Den exw na prosqesw tipote perissotero. Exei analyqei kai to qema toy k. Polyzoy. Menw se ayta poy eipa. Ta sxolia dika sas.

FILHS: To aithma gia peraiterw meiwsh toy Eidikoy Foroy epi twn diafhmisewn eixe teqei apo poioys; Apo toys diafhmistes, apo ta kanalia, apo poioys;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Einai ena zhthma, poy den afora mono toys diafhmistes h ta kanalia. Afora toys diafhmizomenoys, afora ena kyklo ergasiwn poy einai poly megalos. Afora dhladh kai ta proionta poy diafhmizontai poy exoyn mia prostiqemenh ajia epi th basei kai ths diafhmishs, h opoia einai shmantiko kommati ths probolhs toy kaqe proiontos prokeimenoy na kinhqei perissotero h agora. Einai loipon mia kinhsh eyelijias, poy afora synolika thn agora. Den afora monon, opws eipwqhke prohgoymenws toys thleoptikoys staqmoys.

FILHS: Poios eqese to aithma ayto sthn kybernhsh;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Einai ena zhthma to opoio exei teqei edw kai para poly kairo apo oles aytes tis Enwseis poy sas anaferw.

FILHS: Kai me bash th logikh ayth poy qetete dia ths meiwshs toy foroy. Yparxoyn kai alloi foroi. Skefteste kai ekei na parembete;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Ennoeite se o,ti afora tis diafhmiseis poy proballontai sthn thleorash h stis efhmerides; Giati, opws gnwrizete, ginetai megalh prospaqeia -as poyme gia paradeigma sthn kratikh diafhmish- me egkyklio poy ejedwsa prin apo ligoys mhnes, na bohqhqoyn ta MME wste na mhn dhmioyrgoyntai anisothtes sthn katanomh ths kratikhs diafhmishs. Blepete loipon, oti den einai mia ad hoc kinhsh, alla einai mia kinhsh poy exei synexeia sth logikh ths kalyterhs leitoyrgias ths agora twn MME se diaforoys xwroys. O enas xwros einai aytos ths diafhmishs, ston opoio anaferqhkame twra. Allos xwros einai aytos twn adeiodothsewn h ths sygkentrwshs. Einai mia synolikh prospaqeia. Den einai kati apokommeno gia na dwsei kai thn aisqhsh h thn entypwsh toy bolematos kapoiwn.

FILHS: Gia to qema ths sygkentrwshs poy anaferate, eixe grafei oti qa eiste etoimoi entos toys etoys. Isxyei;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Exw dhlwsei oti qa jekinhsei enas dialogos me toys amesws emplekomenoys foreis kai ta kommata oytws wste na katartistei ayto to nomosxedio. Ayto den mporei na ginei mesa ston epomeno mhna. O dialogos, einai poly piqanon na anoijei sxetika syntoma.

STAMATOPOYLOS: Prokeitai na meiwsete kai to aggelioshmo;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Den yparxei apo thn kybernhsh kamia skech poy na afora to aggelioshmo.

BLAXOS: Sthn thlefwnikh epikoinwnia poy eixate me ton k. Palaiokrassa, sas apokalyce poio kybernhtiko stelexos ton yponomeyei;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Exw hdh apanthsei. Den qa pw tipote perissotero gia thn ypoqesh ayth.

BLAXOS: Den exete apanthsei.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Den qa pw tipote perissotero gia thn ypoqesh ayth.

MPOTSARAKOS: Dhmioyrghqhke ena terastio qema sxetika me to arqro 3 poy katateqhke sth Boylh, to opoio qa edine th dynatothta paragrafhs h kai plhmmelhmatikhs kathgorias gia osoys nomimopoihsan ``mayra'' xrhmata. Qa hqela na rwthsw, an egine laqos kai poios eyqynetai gi` ayto to laqos.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Kat` arxas, aporriptw kathgorhmatika oti qa edine th dynatothta paragrafhs. Dioti, opws gnwrizete, sto nomosxedio poy exei katateqei einai safes oti oi metexontes se kyklwma den empiptoyn stis diatajeis aytes poy anaferate prohgoymenws. To deytero einai h dhlwsh poy exoyn kanei oi ypoyrgoi Oikonomias kai Dikaiosynhs, oti antimetwpizetai to opoio tyxon problhma dhmioyrgeitai apo ayth th ryqmish. Kai antimetwpizetai syntoma.

PALAIOLOGOS: Qa yparjei tropologia gi` ayto;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Den qa pw shmera tipote perissotero. Pantws, antimetwpizetai syntoma.

KYRITSHS: Epanerxetai kai apasxolei idiaitera kai thn Eyrwph kai tis HPA to qema twn aeroskafwn ths CIA, twn apagwgwn, twn basanisthriwn. Yparxoyn kataggelies gia prosgeiwseis tetoiwn aeroskafwn sthn Ellada. Apo o,ti jerw h Eyrwpaikh Enwsh caxnei thn ypoqesh ayth. Qa hqela na moy dieykrinisete ean to exete ereynhsei kai exete diapistwsei oti den yparxei h to ereynate peraiterw h an synergazeste se kapoia sygkekrimenh ereyna me thn Eyrwpaikh Enwsh.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Den gnwrizw ean yparxei kapoia synergasia me thn Eyrwpaikh Enwsh sxetika me ereyna. Den gnwrizw kan ean yparxei kapoia ereyna se ejelijh. Qelw na sas pw oti, opws enhmerwqhka armodiws, exoyn thrhqei gia tis dieleyseis olwn twn aeroskafwn oloi ekeinoi oi kanones enaerias kykloforias poy throyntai dieqnws.

KYRITSHS: Enaerias.

ROYSOPOYLOS: O,ti problepetai, apo th stigmh poy ena aeroskafos mpainei sto FIR, eite prosgeiwnetai h oxi, ti elegxoi ginontai, ti kanones yparxoyn. Ola ayta poy leitoyrgoyn ws kanones exoyn efarmostei.

KYRITSHS: Gia na akoloyqhsei toys kanones. To qema einai shmantikotero. Exei na kanei me basanisthria kai anqrwpina dikaiwmata. Den exete pio sygkekrimenes plhrofories gia to ti kanoyn ayta ta aeroplana;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Qewrw shmantiko kaqe qema. Sigoyra einai shmantikotero, etsi opws to anaferate, giati afora thn anqrwpinh zwh. Qa sas pw oti kaqe qema einai shmantiko kai prepei na throyntai oloi oi kanones gia opoiadhpote dieleysh aeroskafoys. Ean ypoqesoyme oti ena aeroskafos kineitai metaferontas, anti gia demata gia paradeigma narkwtika, oi elegxoi, oi kanones, oi diadikasies, throyntai gia ola. Anejairetws toy ti periexomeno exei ena aeroskafos h oxi. An einai dhladh anqrwpino dynamiko h an einai proionta. Den gnwrizw kati perissotero. Armodiws moy anaferqhke oti exoyn thrhqei oloi aytoi oi kanones poy dieqnws isxyoyn.

PALAIOLOGOS: Epeidh epimenei kai o k. Palaiokrassas kai den einai h prwth fora poy bgainei kai kataggellei gia symferonta poy nemontai to xwro ton opoio epopteyei, yparxei qema apomakrynshs toy h antikatastashs toy amesa;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Exw janarwthqei. Isxyei h idia apanthsh.

SARANTAKOS: To teleytaio diasthma parakoloyqoyme stelexh ths Neas Dhmokratias, opws thn k. Mpakogiannh, ton k. Soyflia, na qetoyn qema anaqewrhshs toy Syntagmatos. Yparxei enas problhmatismos sthn kybernhsh mhpws h epomenh Boylh einai anaqewrhtikh.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Den qa sas pw kati perissotero poy na sas dwsei eidhsh. To exoyme syzhthsei jana to qema. Exw rwthqei epaneilhmmena sthn idia aiqoysa prin apo 15-20 hmeres. Exw milhsei gia thn anagkh anaqewrhshs toy Syntagmatos. Malista, anefera paradeigma poy perilambanetai sto diko mas programma gia ta mh kratika, mh kerdoskopikoy xarakthra, panepisthmia.

XIWTHS: Apantwntas se prohgoymenh erwthsh, otan rwthqhkate an programmatizontai diarqrwtikes allages stis DEKO, eipate oti den exete na peite kati. Den exete na peite kati, giati den programmatizontai h giati programmatizontai;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Isxyei o,ti exw pei gia ton anasxhmatismo, ton tropo poy ginontai oi anasxhmatismoi kai oi allages sth dhmosia Dioikhsh. Den exw na pw tipota perissotero.

PALAIOLOGOS: Eiste apo toys ypoyrgoys poy deixnete katanohsh, toylaxiston gi` ayto poy traba teleytaia o k. Alogoskoyfhs. Giati xqes, apo o,ti diabasa sto BHMA, leei oti den briskei panta thn idia katanohsh apo toys synadelfoys toy ypoyrgoys, me aformh ton proypologismo kai th dysareskeia poy yparxei se baros toy.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Qa epanalabw to idio poy eixa pei thn prohgoymenh ebdomada, apantwntas se sxetikh erwthsh: Den einai o Alogoskoyfhs o kakos kai oloi emeis eimaste oi kaloi. Oi dyskolies sthn oikonomia einai dedomenes. H prospaqeia einai koinh.

KAKALHS: O Prwqypoyrgos proeklogika eixe kataggeilei thn tokoglyfikh synhqeia twn trapezwn, alla epi diakybernhshs ths Neas Dhmokratias (den akoygetai). Ta kerdh ayta proerxontai kata kyrio logo apo tokoys se daneia. H kybernhsh einai eyxaristhmenh apo ta apotelesmata ths politikhs ths;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Nomizw oti emplekete diaforetika qemata. Qa moy epitrecete na sas qymisw thn ypoqesh twn panwtokiwn, thn opoia orqws eixe kataggeilei h Nea Dhmokratia ws antipoliteysh. Einai to komma ekeino poy ws kybernhsh edwse lysh se ena problhma pollwn etwn. Opws gnwrizete to problhma htan yperdekaetes. Ara, loipon, ayto poy kataggeilame otan hmastan sthn antipoliteysh, alla kai sthn proeklogikh periodo, frontisame ws kybernhsh sthn prajh na to diorqwsoyme, na to allajoyme.

KAKALHS: Mono ayto eixate kataggeilei;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Yparxoyn kanones me toys opoioys leitoyrgoyn oi trapezes kai den einai kanones jexwristoi gia thn Ellada. Einai kanones poy isxyoyn se eyrwpaiko epipedo. Ta epitokia kaqorizontai se eyrwpaiko epipedo. Den exw na pw kati perissotero.

STAMATOPOYLOS: Qa mporesei kapote h kybernhsh na ejasfalisei th swmatikh akeraiothta twn filaqlwn sta ghpeda;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Xairomai, giati kanete ayth thn erwthsh. Opws gnwrizete, prokeitai gia mia poly megalh prospaqeia. Exei jekinhsei apo to neo nomo poy efere h kybernhsh. Qa jekinhsw, legontas oti isxyei h xqesinobradinh dhlwsh poy ekana, apodokimazontas kai katadikazontas ta epeisodia ston agwna poy egine sth Libadeia. Opws me enhmerwse to ypoyrgeio Dhmosias Tajhs eginan hdh 40 prosagwges kai 4 syllhceis. H ereyna synexizetai. Se o,ti afora to sygkekrimeno, opws me enhmerwse o ypoyrgos Dhmosias Tajhs, h astynomia eixe diatypwsei epifylajeis stoys diorganwtes gia to ean to ghpedo kalyptei toys kanones asfaleias kai parexei sthn astynomia tis dynatothtes poy eprepe na exei, prokeimenoy na diasfalistei apolytws h tajh. Eixa mia eyxaristh eidhsh apo ton k. Orfano, prin apo ligh wra: Exei hdh egkriqei apo thn anejarthth Arxh Prostasias Proswpikwn Dedomenwn ayto poy proeblepe o nomos kai ekdidetai syntoma h ypoyrgikh apofash gia thn onomastikopoihsh twn eisithriwn, etsi wste na gnwrizei h kaqe anwnymh etaireia, h kaqe omada, se poia qesh kaqetai o kaqe filaqlos. Einai merika apo ta metra poy qa bohqhsoyn. Exoyn hdh arxisei na apodidoyn, alla qa bohqhsoyn poly perissotero sthn ejaleich ths bias sta ghpeda. Den einai ta astynomika metra. Xqes, gia paradeigma, yphrxan 200 astynomikoi sto ghpedo. Oyte mporei na einai oi astynomikoi h pleiochfia twn qeatwn enos ghpedoy.

STAMATOPOYLOS: Htan meiwmenh h dynamh twn astynomikwn.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Prokeitai gia mia seira aysthrwn metrwn poy problepontai sto neo nomo. Pisteyoyme oti h efarmogh toys qa bohqhsei, wste na pataxqei h bia sta ghpeda kai na exoyme kai emeis ena podosfairo eyrwpaikoy epipedoy, opws se polles alles eyrwpaikes xwres.

STAMATOPOYLOS: Afoy den htan katallhlos o xwros, poios edwse thn adeia na ginei o agwnas;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Den einai apofash ths astynomias. Gnwrizete oti einai apofash twn armodiwn aqlhtikwn organwn. Sthn prospaqeia poy ginetai, prepei na pw oti yparxoyn omades kai anwnymes etaireies poy bohqoyn para poly. H kybernhsh kalei oles tis omades na bohqhsoyn gia na ejaleifqei h bia sta ghpeda. H bia den symferei kanenan, oyte thn Politeia, oyte tis omades, oyte thn proagwgh enos kalyteroy podosfairoy gia ton topo mas.

STAMATOPOYLOS: Gnwrizw oti otan den yparxei adeia ths astynomias, den ginetai o agwnas. Katarghqhke ayto;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Sas eipa poies htan oi epifylajeis ths astynomikhs arxhs se o,ti afora to sygkekrimeno ghpedo. To shmantiko einai h efarmogh enos neoy nomoy poy ton gnwrizete, me poly pio aysthro plaisio. Exoyme th ryqmish poy sas eipa prohgoymenws, giati einai poly shmantiko gia kaqe omada na gnwrizei poios filaqlos agorazei eisithrio kai se poia qesh kaqetai. Antilambaneste oti ayto qa leitoyrghsei apotreptika se osoys qermoaimoys h qermokefaloys qelhsoyn na dhmioyrghsoyn problhma kai sthn omada toys kai bebaiws panw apo ola stoys filaqloys poy parakoloyqoyn ton agwna. Qa eidate kai xqes thn eikona enos patera na koybalaei to mikro paidi toy, mia eikona poy den tima th xwra mas. Ofeiloyme oloi na bohqhsoyme sthn kateyqynsh na thrhqei aytos o aysthroteros nomos. Pisteyw oti kai ayth h thrhsh qa bohqhsei na ejaleifqei h bia sta ghpeda. Einai mia prospaqeia h opoia xreiazetai xrono.

BLAXOS: Otan h astynomia leei oti den threi (den akoygetai).

ROYSOPOYLOS: Anefera tis epifylajeis.

BLAXOS: @H rwtane kai lambanoyn sobara ypoch thn apoch ths astynomias h den thn rwtane kaqoloy. Oysiastika einai san na mhn thn rwthsane.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Anefera tis epifylajeis ths astynomias.

KAKALHS: H kybernhsh primodotei thn eleyqerh eisbolh twn polyeqnikwn (den akoygetai).

ROYSOPOYLOS: H ``eisbolh'', istorika opws gnwrizete, ginetai xwris kanones. An yparxoyn kanones, an dhladh epitrepetai apo to Eyrwpaiko kai to Eqniko Dikaio h anaptyjh mias agoras, den mporei na mila kaneis gia ``eisbolh''. H anaptyjh mias agoras ginetai sto plaisio ths eleyqerias, poy diakrinei th Dhmokratia mas kai tis agores ths Eyrwpaikhs Enwshs, kati to opoio den mporei kaneis na apotrecei, oyte kai epiqymei na apotrecei.

KAKALHS: Adiaforeite dhladh gia tis epiptwseis poy exei stis mikromesaies epixeirhseis.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Kanete megalo laqos. Den adiaforoyme kaqoloy. Ekeino poy exei megalh shmasia einai na qymatai kaneis kai na mhn prospaqei na bgazei symperasmata ad hoc, exontas ena kataskeyasma ek twn proterwn sto diko toy myalo. Qymaste polles periptwseis sto parelqon stis opoies na exoyn, gia paradeigma, epiblhqei prostima gia yperbaseis se super-market; Giati egw den qymamai. Epiblhqhkan, loipon, megala prostima apo thn armodia Grammateia, ta opoia leitoyrgoyn katalytika. Qa synexisei na leitoyrgei aytos o elegxos. Ara, loipon, mia Politeia me kanones kai me elegxo, bohqa sigoyra sthn anaptyjh ths eleyqerhs agoras kai toy antagwnismoy se aythn, ara kai twn kalyterwn timwn gia toys polites.

KAKALHS: Eynoeite toys ligoys.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Ean eseis ypainisseste oti qa prepei na apagoreytoyn kapoies alysides poy exoyn pio fthna proionta gia na plhrwnoyn oi Ellhnes polites pio akriba, peite to eyqews.

MPOTSARAKOS: Me th shmerinh apofash toy dikasthrioy gia thn ypoqesh ths DEKA, to qema toy Xrhmatisthrioy kleinei gia thn kybernhsh h pisteyete oti h ereyna prepei na synexistei me megalyterh entash kai se megalytero baqos;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Den exw akomh akoysei thn apofash toy dikasthrioy. Ekeino poy qelw na sas pw einai oti kybernhsh, h Nea Dhmokratia apo tote poy htan kiolas antipoliteysh, dhlwse oti prepei na diereynhqei ayth h ypoqesh. Opoia ypoqesh einai se ekkremothta prepei na diereynhqei se baqos, wste na apodoqoyn oi eyqynes se opoioys symmeteixan sth gnwsth ypoqesh toy Xrhmatisthrioy me tropo poy den htan nomimos. Ara, loipon, qa perimenoyme kai thn telikh apofash toy dikasthrioy kai opoia allh ypoqesh yparxei, elpizoyme sto plaisio ths Dikaiosynhs na antimetwpistei.

KYRITSHS: Gia tis amyntikes dapanes kai tis promhqeies stratiwtikoy ylikoy, hqela na rwthsw an prokeitai na akoloyqhsete thn politikh poy akoloyqhsan oi kybernhseis toy PASOK enegrafan tis (den akoygetai) dapanes sthn paralabh twn systhmatwn h an prokeitai (den akoygetai) ston proypologismo ayto na eggrafoyn dapanes gia ta aeroskafh F-16.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Den eimai etoimos na sas apanthsw. To qema ayto to eixame syzhthsei kai sto parelqon, alla den moy erxetai sth mnhmh ayth th stigmh h apanthsh. Qa enhmerwqw kai qa sas apanthsw.

Sas eyxaristw.

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