Greek Government Press Briefing, 05-10-19

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From: The Hellenic Ministry of Press & Mass Media <http://www.minpress.gr/>

Aqhna, 19 Oktwbrioy 2005

APO TON YPOYRGO EPIKRATEIAS KAI KYBERNHTIKO EKPROSWPO

QEODWRO ROYSOPOYLO

Xairete.

Sto programma toy Prwqypoyrgoy, na sas pw oti ayrio stis 09:30 qa exei synergasia, sto Megaro Majimoy, me ton Ypoyrgo Dikaiosynhs Anastasio Papalhgoyra kai stis 11:00 me ton Ypoyrgo Oikonomias kai Oikonomikwn Giwrgo Alogoskoyfh.

Parakalw tis erwthseis sas.

SPYRAKH: Exei dhmioyrghqei mia sygxysh oti to epimaxo deigma sto opoio anixneyqhke o ios H5 exei xaqei. Isxyei kati tetoio; Poy einai ayto to deigma, symfwna me tis plhrofories poy exete ws kybernhsh kai ti alles energeies ginontai, wste na aposafhnistei ayth h eikona;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Qa moy epitrecete mia pio analytikh apanthsh gia to synolo toy qematos kai gia tis diadikasies poy akoloyqoyntai se oles tis xwres ths Eyrwpaikhs Enwshs.

SPYRAKH: Na moy peite omws kai gia to deigma@

ROYSOPOYLOS: Qa sas dwsw thn apanthsh meta.

GKOYTZANHS: Ti egine h galopoyla telika;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Qa moy epitrecete epishs na sas pw oti einai ena poly sobaro qema gia na asteieyomaste.

GKOYTZANHS: Sobara to leme.

ROYSOPOYLOS: H ypoqesh ayth, opws gnwrizete, exei jekinhsei apo thn Asia panw apo 2 - 2,5 xronia. Toys teleytaioys mhnes, me synennohseis metajy twn xwrwn ths Eyrwpaikhs Enwshs, ginontai deigmatolhptikoi elegxoi. Sthn Ellada, oi deigmatolhptikoi elegxoi, opws eixe thn eykairia na sas pei kai xqes o Yfypoyrgos Agrotikhs Anaptyjhs k. Kontos, ginontai kyriws sto tojo apo borra pros noto, to tojo ap` opoy pernoyn ta apodhmhtika poylia, dioti oi plhrofories olwn twn episthmonwn sygklinoyn sto oti metadidetai h nosos apo ta apodhmhtika poylia. Sto plaisio ayto, loipon, eginan panw apo 50 deigmatolhcies kai metrhseis. Metajy aytwn twn deigmatolhciwn yphrxe kai mia apo to sygkekrimeno kotetsi stis Oinoysses. Ston elegxo poy egine, doqhke qetikh apanthsh oti dhladh yparxei ypocia. O elegxos aytos egine apo to ergasthrio twn Aqhnwn treis fores sto idio deigma. Kai stis treis fores yphrje qetikh apanthsh. Symfwna me ta osa exoyn apofasisei oi armodioi episthmones se olh thn Eyrwpaikh Enwsh -kai fysika akoloyqoyn kai oi @Ellhnes episthmones- to epomeno bhma poy exei na kanei mia xwra einai na paei ston idio xwro kai na parei perissotera deigmata. Ta deigmata ta opoia elhfqhsan einai panw apo to 50% toy ariqmoy twn pthnwn poy htan sto sygkekrimeno kotetsi. Ta deigmata ayta synolika einai 9. Ta 8 ejetasthkan apo to Ergasthrio ths Qessalonikhs kai to enato ejetazetai apo to Ergasthrio toy Londinoy. Ta 8 einai deigmata aimatos, to enato poy phge sto Londino, katopin aithsews twn episthmonwn toy Ergasthrioy toy Londinoy, einai deigma istoy. Ta 50 sta opoia anaferqhka sthn arxh htan sthn prwth fash, ews thn perasmenh ebdomada. Ayth th stigmh exoyme 154 deigmata sth Qessalonikh, exoyn ejetastei ta 40, kai ta 40 einai arnhtika. Exoyme 44 deigmata sthn Aqhna, exoyn ejetastei ta 16 kai ta 16 einai arnhtika. Synexizetai h ejetash twn deigmatwn. H episthmonikh meqodos poy akoloyqeitai den stoxeyei, oyte stoxopoiei to ena deigma, alla apo th stigmh poy yparxei yponoia -kai yphrxe yponoia sto ena deigma- ofeiloyn oi episthmones na paroyn deigmata apo para polla pthna, en prokeimenw panw apo to 50%, dioti milame gia 12 pthna poy eixe o sygkekrimenos agroths kai exoyn lhfqei deigmata apo ta 9, gia na doyn ayto poy pragmatika endiaferei oloys toys episthmones sthn Eyrwpaikh Enwsh kai ston planhth mas, ean dhladh yparxei ejaplwsh h oxi ths opoias asqeneias, h ypocia gia asqeneia h oxi. Mexri stigmhs oi apanthseis poy exoyme einai arnhtikes. Exei hdh ekdoqei kai apo th Qessalonikh anakoinwsh. An den thn exete ypoch sas, qa hqela na sas th diabasw gia na exete mia plhrh eikona.

To deltio typoy poy ejedoqh shmera to prwi anaferei: ``To Kentro Kthniatrikwn Idrymatwn Qessalonikhs, tmhma Paqologias Pthnwn, gnwstopoihse xqes oti h orologikh, ayto shmainei aimatologikh ejetash, me th meqodo ELIZA, twn 8 deigmatwn poy elhfqhsan stis 17/10 apo thn ypopth oikosith ektrofh twn Oinoysswn, apebh arnhtikh. Sth synexeia, ta idia deigmata poy ejetasthkan me th deyterh meqodo ths anastolhs ths aimosygkollhshs, gnwstopoihqhke shmera to prwi oti breqhkan arnhtika. Ta apotelesmata ayta gnwstopoihqhkan sth Genikh Dieyqynsh Kthniatrikhs toy Ypoyrgeioy Agrotikhs Anaptyjhs kai Trofimwn, sth Dieyqynsh Kthniatrikhs Nomarxiakhs Aytodioikhshs Xioy kai sthn Kthniatrikh Yphresia ths Eyrwpaikhs Enwshs. Oi ergasthriakes iologikes ejetaseis, dhladh gia thn apomonwsh toy ioy, synexizontai kanonika kai ta apotelesmata toys anamenontai apo to Londino kai th Qessalonikh stis arxes ths epomenhs ebdomadas''.

Ayto poy qelw na katasthsw safes einai oti, me bash thn episthmonikh meqodo poy akoloyqeitai se oles tis xwres toy kosmoy, den stoxopoiei h stoxeyei kapoios se ena deigma to opoio brisketai qetiko kai to opoio mporei na brisketai apo tyxaia ews oysiastika qetiko, alla ofeilei na ereynhsei thn ypoloiph oikosith ektrofh h thn ypoloiph ektrofh, opoy ki an brisketai, gia na dei an pragmatika yparxei kapoios logos anhsyxias. Apo ta mexri stigmhs stoixeia den yparxei kapoios logos anhsyxias. Katalhgontas, qelw na pw me ayto oti den exei shmasia to ena deigma, exei shmasia to synolo twn deigmatwn to opoio lambanetai. To ena deigma gia to opoio me rwthsate, sas eipa oti ejetasthke apo to idio ergasthrio treis fores. Dhladh, ejantlhqhke to ena deigma sthn ejetash apo to idio ergasthrio. Se kaqe periptwsh, parakalw kai qelw na to shmeiwsw gia trith fora, exei ajia episthmonikh -kai ayto einai to episthmoniko endiaferon- gia to ti symbainei sto synolo twn deigmatwn poy lambanontai apo thn idia ektrofh. Telos qelw na symplhrwsw oti, katopin synennohsews toy Ypoyrgeioy Agrotikhs Anaptyjhs, ayrio qa erqoyn sthn Ellada dyo eidikoi episthmones ths Eyrwpaikhs Enwshs gia na synergastoyn, katopin aithmatos ths ellhnikhs kybernhshs, me tis ellhnikes arxes gia na yparxei peraiterw enhmerwsh, ektos apo to armodio Ypoyrgeio kai apo toys dyo episthmones, pros tis armodies arxes ths Eyrwpaikhs Enwshs.

SPYRAKH: Milate me episthmonikoys oroys kai einai katanohto..

ROYSOPOYLOS: Milaw poly apla.

SPYRAKH: ..na doyme ti egine kai me ta ypoloipa deigmata apo thn idia ektrofh. Qelw na rwthsw gia to sygkekrimeno ypopto deigma kai me sygxwreite poy epimenw: Ta apomeinaria, giati otan ginetai deigmatolhcia apo ena zwo, yparxei to ypoloipo. Ta apomeinaria aytoy toy zwoy yparxoyn;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Sas eipa oti to aimatologiko deigma ejantlhqhke kaqoson ekrine skopimo to ergasthrio, ektos apo to prwto test poy apebh qetiko, na proxwrhsei se dyo akomh test gia na dei ean qa apoboyn kai ayta qetika.

SPYRAKH: To ena ejantlhqhke@

ROYSOPOYLOS: Ejantlhqhke, loipon, to deigma. Epanalambanw, dioti stoxeyontas sto ena, xanoyme thn oysia. Kai h oysia einai ayto poy lene oi episthmones poy gnwrizoyn kalytera kai apo emena kai apo oloys emas s` ayth thn aiqoysa, oti dhladh, ofeiloyme na ejetasoyme ola ta zwa ths oikosiths ayths ektrofhs h thn pleionothta, kai ginetai ejetash se pososto panw apo 50%.

MPOYATAR: To prwto deigma breqhke ypopto gia H5 h gia H5N1; Dhladh to qetiko.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Yphrxan stoixeia ypocias gia H5, poy shmainei oti einai to prwto-prwto stadio poy den empneei anhsyxia, para monon ean metejelixqei kai paei sto epikindyno deytero stadio.

MPOYATAR: Stoixeia ypocias, oxi qetiko sto H5.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Stoixeia ypocias einai h orologia poy xrhsimopoihse xqes o k. Kontos, poy gnwrizei kalytera apo oloys mas to qema. Ara loipon yparxei to stoixeio ths ypocias se ena deigma to opoio ereynhqhke treis fores me tria test, apo to idio ergasthrio kai to opoio bghke qetiko. Xwris na ginomai koyrastikos, me bash toys episthmones oi opoioi exoyn kanei kai dhmosies anakoinwseis, eite sto Internet opoy mporei na prosfygei kaneis, eite sthn E.E., na laboyme sobara ypoch mas, ayto to opoio lene oi epaiontes, oi gnwrizontes. Oti den einai to qema toy enos kai stoxeyoyme ston enan. Den miloyme gia enan anqrwpo, ton opoio qa prospaqhsoyn oi episthmones na proseggisoyn me diaforetikes ergasthriakes analyseis, analyontas aima, isto klp. Miloyme gia ena pthno, miloyme gia mia diadikasia h opoia ginetai se oles tis xwres toy kosmoy kai miloyme gia to deytero stadio ths diadikasias ejetashs toy synoloy h ths pleionothtas, toy megalyteroy ariqmoy twn pthnwn poy briskontai sthn idia oikosith ektrofh, gia na doyme ean pragmatika yparxei anhsyxia. Ayth th stigmh, ola ta stoixeia poy exoyme apo to ergasthrio ths Qessalonikhs, deixnoyn oti einai arnhtika. Dhladh den yparxei anhsyxia. Qa perimenoyme gia prolhptikoys logoys na perasoyn oi hmeres, ews otoy perasei mia ebdomada prokeimenoy na oloklhrwqei h istologikh ejetash poy ginetai sto Londino gia na exoyme oloi mas mia safh kai kathgorhmatikh apanthsh gia to qema ths sygkekrimenhs oikosiths ektrofhs. Epanalambanw, oti se oles tis alles periptwseis -kai einai shmantiko ayto gia na mh dhmioyrgeitai genika panikos- ana thn Ellada opoy elhfqhsan deigmata -sas diabasa toys ariqmoys, einai arketa megaloi- oles oi apanthseis poy exoyme labei mexri stigmhs apo to ergasthrio ths Qessalonikhs einai arnhtikes.

MPOYATAR: Gia to 9o deigma, dhladh to istologiko, poy exei stalei sto Londino, prin na stalei egine kai aimatologikh ejetash s@ ayto to zwo poy breqhke arnhtiko h ejetasane ta 8 kai to 1 den to ejetasan, aplws qelan isto;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Den gnwrizw ayth th leptomereia, alla antilambaneste oti otan h episthmonikh meqodos proteinei, epiballei, epitassei -xrhsimopoihste opoio rhma qelete- na ginei ejetash se perissotera toy enos kai dh en prokeimenw se panw apo 50%, giati an milame gia 12 ews 15 pthna poy eixe o sygkekrimenos pthnotrofos, h ejetash ginetai se 9. Ara, poly megalo pososto einai sta plaisia ths apolyths asfaleias, episthmonika, gia na bgalei kaneis sygkekrimena symperasmata.

BLAXOS: Kyrie Ekproswpe, ftaine oi dhmosiografoi gia th xqesinh sygxysh poy yphrxe olo to apogeyma kai olo to brady gia ayto to qema;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Gnwrizete oti pote den qa eperripta eyqynh se kanenan dhmosiografo gia to opoiodhpote qema. Mporei na yparxoyn zhthmata sta opoia na diafwnoyme kai exei symbei polles fores, otan erwtwmai na exw allh apanthsh h allh apoch gia to qema ap@ aythn poy erwtwmai apo dhmosiografo, alla oydepote qa eperripta thn eyqynh se dhmosiografo.

BLAXOS: Ara poios ftaiei gia th xqesinh sygxysh;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Den gnwrizw na sas pw. Antilambanomai oti yphrje kapoioy eidoys sygxysh, den mporw na pw oti den yphrje. Pisteyw oti einai ena ejeidikeymeno qema, to opoio qelei oso to dynaton pio aplh proseggish, gia na to katanohsoyme oloi mas, oyte egw eimai episthmwn, oyte eseis eidikeymenoi episthmones gi@ ayta ta qemata. Sas to eipa me oso pio apla logia mporoysa, katanowntas to qema, milwntas me eidikoys kai bebaiws me to Ypoyrgeio Agrotikhs Anaptyjhs kai to Ypoyrgeio Ygeias kai ayto qa parakaloysa na meinei ws katagrafh gia to ti akribws exei symbei s@ ayto to qema. Den exw na prosqesw tipote perissotero.

BLAXOS: Nai, alla den prepei na ftaiei omws kapoios gi@ ayto poy synebh xqes; Th xqesinh eikona sthn thleorash, thn eidate kai eseis. Etsi den einai;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Nomizw, oti exei poly megalh shmasia, to ti qa ginei s@ ayth th sobarh ypoqesh. Kai lew sobarh oxi gia th xwra mas, sobarh synolika gia ton planhth. Zhthmata poy einai arketa ejeidikeymena den mporei na ta gnwrizoyme oloi. Antilambanomai ayto poy lete. Omologw, kai to exw pei kai alles fores kai se synedria dhmosiografwn, opoy meteixa ws dhmosiografos kai sthn politikh poy briskomai pente xronia, oti kai egw ws dhmosiografos polles fores eprepe na entryfhsw perissotero h den htan eykolo na katanohsw to qema. Den rixnw thn eyqynh se kanenan dhmosiografo kai se kanenan allon. Pisteyw omws oti meta th xqesinh analytikh enhmerwsh poy egine edw, apo ton k. Kaklamanh kai ton k. Konto, meta tis dhlwseis poy ekane o k. Mpasiakos xqes to brady kai ayta poy sas eipa shmera, ta pragmata einai pio jekaqara.

KOYIN: Aplws gia na to jekaqarisw 100%. Ara apo ola ta deigmata poy exoyn parqei sthn Ellada, yparxei mono ena poy einai qetiko gia H5.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Nai.

KOYIN: Kai perimenoyme thn allh Deytera h Trith na doyme ean@

ROYSOPOYLOS: Qa perimenoyme stis arxes ths epomenhs ebdomadas, na doyme ean epibebaiwqei apo ta ypoloipa deigmata poy exoyn lhfqei, apo th sygkekrimenh oikosith ektrofh.

GKOYTZANHS: Xqes dhmioyrghqhke mia sygxysh. Den th dhmioyrghsame emeis. Dhmioyrghqhke me thn paroysia toy Ypoyrgoy Agrotikhs Anaptyjhs. To erwthma edw pera, an to qelete kai einai to pragmatika sobaro, einai ti egine to deigma. To na jeroyme ti egine to deigma kai ti egine to zwo. Ean ayto den to jeroyme, exei na kanei me thn ajiopistia twn elegxwn. Me th diadikasia dhladh thn opoia akoloyqeitai. Ayto einai to sobaro ths ypoqeshs. Dhmioyrghqhke mia sygxysh sthn koinh gnwmh, oxi apo emas pantws.

ROYSOPOYLOS: H ajiopistia twn elegxwn, opws gnwrizete, exei na kanei me thn ajiopistia episthmonikwn meqodwn, ergasthriwn k.o.k.. Yparxoyn sthn Ellada ergasthria, ta opoia einai pistopoihmena dieqnws, poy exoyn dieqnes kyros kai ta opoia metexoyn s` ayth th diadikasia. Nomizw loipon, oti pera twn prwtwn apanthsewn poy exoyme kai oi opoies einai arnhtikes, qa exoyme th synolikh apanthsh stis arxes ths epomenhs ebdomadas kai den qa yparxei pleon kanena shmeio axlys sthn atmosfaira gia ayto to sygkekrimeno qema.

POYLIDOY: Egw ayto to opoio katalaba kai nomizw oti katalaba swsta, einai oti akoloyqhqhke sthn arxh diadikasia toy na entopistei an einai ypopta gia to H5 kai qa akoloyqoyse h diadikasia pistopoihshs toy ioy kata N, opws legetai episthmonika.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Den gnwrizw pws legetai episthmonika.

POYLIDOY: Omws, ayto to opoio antelhfqhn apo tis kybernhtikes epejhghseis xqes, einai oti ta prwta deigmata den apomonwqhkan kai ta nea ta opoia hrqan, dhmioyrghsan mia sygxysh kai ara den mporoyse na oloklhrwqei h plhrhs diadikasia. Ean einai se ena shmeio kai h oloklhrwsh ths diadikasias, eprepe na janaginei sto synolo twn 9 kai oxi twn arxikws ejetazomenwn deigmatwn.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Se kaqe periptwsh omws@

POYLIDOY: Oxi. Edw pasxei h meqodologia kai pasxei kai h oloklhrwsh ths meqoqologias.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Se kaqe periptwsh omws, qa hqela na shmeiwsete oti h meqodologia thn opoia episthmones exoyn programmatisei, exoyn katagracei se dieqnh entypa h se iatrika fylladia h sto Internet poy epikalesthka nwritera, einai poly sygkekrimenh. Na to poyme poly apla. Otan brisketai kati poy einai ypopto, ofeiloyme na cajoyme kai ston periballonta xwro, prokeimenoy na doyme ean kai ta ypoloipa zwa exoyn ypocia gia asqeneia. Ayth einai h meqodologia. Eixe h den eixe ejantlhqei to prwto deigma, h meqodologia einai ayth. Episthmonika ayto eprepe na ginei kai ayto ginetai ayth thn wra. Oi apanthseis loipon, apo ayto poy ginetai ayth thn wra, qa dwsoyn oloklhrwmenh kai apolyta egkyrh eikona.

SPYRAKH: Qelw na kanw mia teleiws aploikh erwthsh. Giati ta episthmonika dedomena etsi opws mas ta ejhghsate ta katanohsame. Epishs katanohsame oti apo th galopoyla poy epasxe, opws epibebaiwqhke, apo H5 phrate aima. Qelw loipon na rwthsw, to ypoloipo pthno poy einai;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Nomizw oti exw apanthsei eparkws gia thn meqodologia poy akoloyqoyn oi episthmones. Den qa ginw Poyaro ths galopoylas kai fantazomai kaneis apo oloys mas.

GKOYTZANHS: Kyrie Ekproswpe, den qeloyme na poyme ayto. Qeloyme na poyme, einai eleyqero kai metadidei ton io kai se alla pthna; Ayto einai to qema. Den einai gia na kanoyme ton Poyaro.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Milame gia mia oikosith ektrofh. Ara loipon einai entos toy sygkekrimenoy xwroy.

GKOYTZANHS: Entajei, fainetai asteio, alla den einai telikws.

IWANNOY: Ayto to prwto deigma, to opoio caxnoyme na broyme poy einai ayth h galopoyla, gnwrizete an htan zwntano to pthno h oxi;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Oxi, den to gnwrizw. Qewrw oti exw dwsei mia oloklhrwmenh apanthsh sto synolo toy qematos. Qa parakalesw omws, ean yparxoyn poly sygkekrimenes erwthseis, na apeyqyneste stis armodies arxes. Sto armodio Ypoyrgeio. Ean yparxoyn poly sygkekrimenes erwthseis, den mporw na dwsw apanthsh. O logos gia ton opoio kalesa xqes kai ton Ypoyrgo Ygeias k. Kaklamanh kai ton Yfypoyrgo Agrotikhs Anaptyjhs k. Konto einai akribws giati antilambanomai to megeqos toy endiaferontos -to eipa allwste xqes otan jekinhse ayth h enhmerwsh- kai bebaiws dioti ofeilw na exw empistosynh se aytoys oi opoioi einai ypeyqynoi kai gnwrizoyn perissotera ap@ oti gnwrizw egw. Mh menoyme se polles leptomereies.

IWANNOY: Apla mia dieykrinistikh erwthsh. To deigma poy phge sthn Agglia den einai to prwto deigma, einai apo allo pthno. Ayto nomizw htan jekaqaro.

ROYSOPOYLOS: To eipa apo thn arxh.

KORAH: Oi Bretanoi loipon giati apaitoyn, giati zhtoyn to arxiko deigma, to ypopto, afoy emeis edw ta kaname ola toso teleia episthmonika;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Exw thn entypwsh oti den einai etsi opws ta lete. Ayto to opoio egine, einai oti ektos toy pistopoihmenoy ergasthrioy sth Qessalonikh, oi ellhnikes arxes esteilan deigma kai se ena ergasthrio toy ejwterikoy. Ayto to aplo pragma egine. Den yparxei kati ypopto, oyte to apaithse kapoios apo thn Ellada. Kai mono o tropos poy to diatypwsate, einai ypotimhtikos gia th xwra, otan malista yparxoyn ergasthria kai episthmones oi opoioi einai sobaroi sto xwro toys kai xairoyn dieqnoys ektimhshs.

KORAH: Giati steilame omws to allo deigma; Me thn ennoia, mas enoxlei, ypobibazei thn episthmonikh mas ajioprepeia to oti den stelnoyme to ypopto deigma kai den thn ypobibazei otan stelnoyme ena allo deigma; Edw milame gia synergasia twn arxwn.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Fobamai oti den exete katalabei kala to qema.

KORAH: Pws den exw katalabei;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Milame gia synergasia twn arxwn entos ths E.E.

KORAH: Exw katalabei oti h ypopth galopoyla exei ejafanistei kai thn caxnoyme.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Den gnwrizw ean thn caxnete eseis. Ekeino to opoio@

KORAH: Nomizw oti kai h kybernhsh thn caxnei.

ROYSOPOYLOS: @Oxi. Kanete megalo laqos kai opws sas eipa apo thn arxh, milame gia ena sobaro qema. O kaqenas mporei na antidra opws nomizei@

KORAH: Poly sobaro kai mas apasxolei oloys.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Sas ejhghsa thn meqodologia poy akoloyqoyn dieqnws oi xwres kai kyriws th meqodologia poy akoloyqoyn oi xwres ths E.E. Ean eseis epimenete na anazhtate mia galopoyla, ayto einai diko sas qema.

KORAH: Qelw epishs, episthmonika na moy ejhghsete giati egw ta agnow ayta ta qemata, pws einai dynaton na einai mia sygkekrimenh pthnotrofikh monada se karantina kai oi pthnotrofoi na bgainoyn se zwntanh anametadosh apo ta deltia eidhsewn xwris na foroyn maskes, xwris tipote. Poia einai ta metra kyrie Ypoyrge, anarwtietai o aplos thleqeaths;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Exoyme ena prwto stadio ypocias. Eseis exete jeperasei kai to prwto stadio ths ypocias, exete jeperasei kai to deytero stadio ths megalyterhs ypocias h ths bebaiothtas, exete paei sto trito, to opoio einai..

KORAH: Ma einai h den einai se karantina h sygkekrimenh monada;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Exete paei sto trito stadio to opoio afora asqeneia metadotikh kiolas kai exete paei kai se ena tetarto stadio to opoio den isxyei, giati opws gnwrizete mesa apo ta ``radiokymata'' den metadidetai kanenas ios.

KORAH: Einai h oxi se karantina h sygkekrimenh monada; Ayto qelw na maqw. Yparxoyn kapoioi oroi h aplws leme einai se karantina;

ROYSOPOYLOS: To erwthma sas apanthqhke xqes. Hsastan edw xqes;

KORAH: Diabasa olo to mprifingk.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Wraia. Opws loipon ejhghse xqes o armodios ypoyrgos, yparxei apofash ths Nomarxias -giati sth Nomarxia anhkoyn ayta ta zhthmata- me thn opoia den epitrepetai na ginei ejagwgh kanenos eidoys kreatos poylerikwn apo to nhsi. Bebaiws, shmeiwse kai o k. Kontos kai epanalambanw kai egw, den kanei ejagwgh poylerikwn h Xios. Einai ola gia oikosith xrhsh, apo toys katoikoys ths perioxhs.

TSIODRAS: Qa epanelqw sto arxiko erwthma. Sxetika me to deigma poy estalh sto Londino, to logiko den einai otan ginetai mia ejetash edw kai oloklhrwnetai h aimatologikh opws mas eipate, sth synexeia na stalei istos apo to pthno to opoio exei diapistwqei oti exei problhma; Giati stelnete apo allo pthno; Ayto mporeite na mas to ejhghsete;

ROYSOPOYLOS: To ejhghse xqes o k. Mpasiakos legontas oti ayto poy zhthse to Aggliko ergasthrio, htan na doqei ena pthno to opoio fainetai oti asqenei.

TSIODRAS: Ara loipon to logiko einai na stalei ayto poy exei breqei qetiko.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Estalh loipon to deigma sto Londino apo ena pthno poy fainotan oti asqenei.

TSIODRAS: Den einai to logiko na stalei to pthno to opoio eixe emfanistei qetiko ston io;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Den gnwrizw an eiste episthmwn toy eidoys. Egw den eimai. Egw loipon sas lew@

TSIODRAS: Me bash th logikh milaw. Den to briskete logiko;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Den mporoyme na milame me thn idia embriqeia apo to Kypriako ews ton io ths griphs twn poylerikwn. Sas eipa loipon apo thn prwth stigmh, oti oi plhrofories poy sas metaferw einai stoixeia apo ta opoia antloyntai oles oi gnwseis twn episthmonikwn ergasthriwn, twn episthmonwn k.o.k. Apo aytes loipon tis gnwseis, sas metefera thn ypoqesh. Qa parakalesw ean exete idiaitero endiaferon, poy to katalabainw, gia perissoteres iatrikhs morfhs plhrofories, na apeyqynqeite se pleon ejeidikeymenoys emoy.

TSIODRAS: Ayto den einai qema iatrikhs. Nomizw oti einai qema koinhs logikhs. Dhladh, otan soy zhtoyn isto, na steileis apo ena pthno to opoio exei emfanistei qetiko kai oxi apo kapoio poy piqanon na einai arnhtiko.

ROYSOPOYLOS: H aplh logikh einai ena isxyro kinhtro. Sthn iatrikh, sthn episthmh genikotera, mporei polles fores h aplh logikh na xreiazetai kai mia parapanw gnwsh. Giati, alliws, qa eimaste oloi giatroi, ean leitoyrgoysame me thn aplh logikh h en pash periptwsei osoi eixan thn aplh logikh qa htan kai giatroi kai syntagmatologoi kai seismologoi k.o.k.. Parakalw na meinoyme se ayto.

BLAXOS: Pantws, h aplh logikh leei oti to eixate xasei, gi` ayto den to steilate.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Kaqenas, me th seira toy, mporei na ypoballei thn erwthsh poy qelei.

PEPONHS: Prwton, giati ayta poy mas eipate shmera, den ta legate apo thn prwth hmera h estw th deyterh kai afhsate na dhmioyrghqei enas panikos se olh th xwra kai opws me eidopoioyn apo thn patrida moy, arxise na sfazei kaqe oikogeneia ta kotopoyla poy exei sto spiti ths, me th sygxysh poy dhmioyrghqhke. Kai deyteron, apo osa eipate, metrhsa oti exete parei gyrw sta 200 deigmata. Mporeite na mas peite apo poies perioxes ths xwras einai ayta ta deigmata, oytws wste na yparjei mia kaqhsyxastikh katastash ston kosmo;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Exoyn apanthqei kai ta dyo erwthmata. Oson afora sto deytero skelos ths erwthshs sas, qa sas ypenqymisw aplws oti milame gia ton ajona borra-notoy apo ton Ebro ews th notia Ellada. Ton ajona, dhladh, ston opoio pernoyn ta apodhmhtika poylia. Oson afora sto prwto skelos ths erwthshs sas, qa moy epitrecete na sas pw oti den exete diabasei tis anakoinwseis poy exoyn ekdoqei edw kai poly kairo, oyte tis dhlwseis poy exoyn ginei apo toys armodioys. Antilambanomai oti otan ena qema pairnei megalyterh dhmosiothta, prokalei kai megalytero endiaferon. Qa parakalesw, omws, prin memfqeite thn kybernhsh h ta armodia ypoyrgeia, na eiste gnwsths toy ti exoyn kanei ta armodia ypoyrgeia. Xqes, parabreqhkan edw oi dyo ekproswpoi twn synarmodiwn ypoyrgeiwn kai sas edwsa mia seira apo analytika stoixeia gia to pws exei kinhqei prolhptika h ellhnikh Politeia, protoy kan yparjei to opoiodhpote deigma ypocias sthn Ellada. Ean eseis den to exete diabasei, parakalw na to diabasete kai meta elate na kathgorhsete thn kybernhsh, an ekane h den ekane swsth enhmerwsh.

PEPONHS: Na epanelqw, giati ligo moy apeyqyneste proswpika.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Oxi ligo, kanonika. Proswpika apeyqynomai kai an ta exete diabasei. Me ayth thn ennoia.

PEPONHS: Ta exw diabasei ola kai exw kai proswpiko endiaferon, giati me afora proswpika h istoria. Egw eida, xqes, enan ypoyrgo Agrotikhs Anaptyjhs na mperdeyei ta logia toy kai na kanei pente diaforetikes dhlwseis sta kanalia. Ayto, an mh ti allo, ti einai; Den einai sygxysh; Kai xqes, pali edw, o k. Kontos elege oti apagoreyontai oi eisagwges apo thn Toyrkia kai o Nomarxhs ths Xioy elege, mexri prin apo 10 hmeres, oti phgainoerxontai ta kotopoyla. Paei apenanti o kosmos kai fernei kotopoyla apo thn Toyrkia, giati einai kalyterhs ratsas. Loipon, ti moy lete oti den exw diabasei.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Kat` arxas, qesate dyo teleiws diaforetika qemata se ayto to erwthma sas apo o,ti sto prwto. Sto prwto erwthma sas -gia na ypenqymisw kai sthn omhgyrh- eipate oti h kybernhsh den enhmerwse, kaqysterhse, oligwrhse. Sto deytero erwthma sas, qesate alla qemata. Sto prwto, labate apanthsh kai den qa epanelqw. Oson afora sto deytero, xqes sas doqhkan sygkekrimenes apanthseis. Ean ektimate oti oi apanthseis den htan sygkekrimenes, einai mia dikh sas ektimhsh. Qa th sebastw. Xqes, sas eipwqhke apo ton armodio yfypoyrgo pws leitoyrgei to systhma eisagwgwn-ejagwgwn. Sas eipe oti, edw kai para polla xronia, den yparxoyn eisagwges apo thn Toyrkia. Ean kapoios idiwths exei kanei tetoies energeies kai den exei elegxqei apo tis arxes, einai ena qema pros diereynhsh apo tis armodies arxes, oi opoies einai ypeyqynes na thrhsoyn to nomo. Pantws, eisagwges kreatos kai poylerikwn apo thn Toyrkia, opws eipe xqes o k. Kontos, den yparxoyn epishmws, edw kai polla xronia.

TRIGKAS: Pairnw aformh apo thn apanthsh poy dwsate twra, gia na rwthsw: Dedomenoy oti o Nomarxhs Xioy, xqes, eipe oti ginotan ayth h doyleia kai oti den htan armodiothta toy, mexri prin apo 10 hmeres, alla twn telwneiwn. H kybernhsh qa ereynhsei sta telwneia, ean ginotan swsta h doyleia;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Zhtate na ginei ereyna, meta apo 15 hmeres, sta telwneia. Nai, pisteyw oti prepei na ginei ereyna.

TRIGKAS: Oxi. Etsi eipe o Nomarxhs.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Nai. Prepei na ginei ereyna. Ean yparxei opoiadhpote parabash kaqhkontos, na ginei ereyna kai na apodoqoyn eyqynes.

TRIKAS: Qa mas enhmerwsete, otan arxisei ayth h ereyna;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Qa sas enhmerwsei to armodio ypoyrgeio.

BLAXOS: H Komision einai dysaresthmenh me ton xeirismo poy exei ginei sto qema ayto kai perimenei apanthseis mexri to meshmeri;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Ean parakoloyqhsate proxqes tis dhlwseis toy Proedreyontos toy Symboylioy k. Tzak Stro, qa deite oti epaineqhke h Ellada gia tis energeies ths. Kamia dysareskeia.

BLAXOS: Proxqes, oxi shmera.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Nai.

BLAXOS: Xqes, htan allo pragma. Proxqes, den yphrxe ayth h sygxysh. Dhmioyrghqhke xqes. H dysareskeia einai shmerinh.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Yparxei apolyth synergasia me thn Komision kai ton armodio Epitropo k. Kyprianoy. O ypoyrgos Agrotikhs Anaptyjhs k. Mpasiakos einai se synexh epikoinwnia. Den gnwrizw an milhsan kai shmera, alla nomizw oti exoyn milhsei kai shmera kai xqes kai kaqe hmera.

BLAXOS: Ara, moy lete oti sas zhthqhkan ejhghseis. Epibebaiwnete ayto poy yparxei.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Eimaste ypoxrewmenoi, ws melh ths Eyrwpaikh Enwshs, na enhmerwsoyme gia ypoqeseis, oi opoies exoyn poly megalytero endiaferon apo to plaisio twn synorwn ths xwras. Ayth h enhmerwsh kai h synergasia yparxoyn.

SPYRAKH: Qelw na rwthsw kati politiko: Ypoqetw oti xqes to brady parakoloyqoysate ki eseis, opws kai to synolo twn Ellhnwn, tis apanwtes dhlwseis toy k. Mpasiakoy, me stoxo na ejhghsei poy einai to deigma. H kybernhsh einai ikanopoihmenh apo thn eikona kai apo ton tropo me ton opoio egine h paroysiash aytoy toy qematos kai an ayto symbainei, giati shmera phrate eseis olo ayto to baros;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Rwthqhka kai otan erwtwmai, apantw h en pash periptwsei prospaqw na apantw. Opws gnwrizete, sth zwh, sth dhmosiografia kai sthn kaqhmerinothta yparxei to ``einai'' kai to ``fainesqai''. Polles fores den taytizontai to ``einai'' me to ``fainesqai''. To ``einai'', einai ayto poy mas lene oi episthmones kai ofeilw na sas to metaferw aytoysio, opws to plhroforhqhka, to ``fainesqai'' einai ayto to opoio synagetai apo mia seira diaforetikwn frasewn, symperiforwn, dhlwsewn k.o.k.. Egw, loipon, qa meinw sto ``einai'', to opoio einai poly sygkekrimeno.

MOSXOBAS: Perimenw mia apanthsh apo esas, gia to an exei koinopoihqei ston Prwqypoyrgo h epistolh toy dikhgoroy toy eklipontos Patriarxh Alejandreias gia thn ptwsh toy SINOYK.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Exete dikio. Den exw thn apanthsh. Ofeilw na zhthsw sygnwmh. Qa to ereynhsw kai qa prosteqei sto briefing.

MOSXOBAS: Hqela na jerw, ean o Prwqypoyrgos symfwnei me ayth th biomhxania agwgwn, opws perigrafetai shmera, poy exoyn jekinhsei kybernhtika stelexh enantion MME.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Diafwnw me to xarakthrismo poy dinete. Exw, hdh, apanthsei sto qema apo xqes. Den exw na pw tipote perissotero.

BLAXOS: Meta to prasino fws poy afhsate kai eseis edw kai sas ypenqymizw, to exete jexasei bebaia, oti hsastan kai eseis dhmosiografos prin apo ligo kairo@

ROYSOPOYLOS: Prin apo ligo to elega.

BLAXOS: Meta to prasino fws poy dwsate, yparxoyn agwges kai apeiles gia agwges politikwn enantion dhmosiografwn. Egw hjera oti filodojia ths kybernhshs ayths einai na meinei ws kybernhsh metarryqmisewn, oxi ws kybernhsh poy akoloyqei ta bhmata ths prohgoymenhs kybernhshs toy PASOK, apeilwntas me agwges enantion dhmosiografwn. Ayto to ekane nomo to PASOK. Oloi tote eixame antidrasei. Mporei enas dhmosiografos na kanei kai laqh h na pei kati apo paraplhroforhsh, alla ayto na zhta o k. Regkoyzas 800.000 eyrw, me sygxwreite, tosa toy leipoyn; Qa hqela para poly na moy peite th gnwmh sas, san prwhn dhmosiografos kai san Kybernhtikos Ekproswpos, pws blepete ena kybernhtiko stelexos na zhta apo ena dhmosiografo 800.000 eyrw, th stigmh poy sthn ekpomph ton kaloysame synexws na bgei kai na apanthsei kai na pei oti ``den einai swsto ayto, einai laqos, me adikeite''. Egw phga ekei gi` ayto to pragma kai den ebgaine.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Exw hdh anaferqei sto qema. Qa epanalabw: Den yparxei kanenas logos na pisteyei kaneis oti h kybernhsh exei to otidhpote enantion toy opoioydhpote dhmosiografoy h toy opoioydhpote MME. Se ayto qelw na eimai toso litos, oso kai kathgorhmatikos. Sto deytero qema poy qesate eipate th frash oti ``edwsa to prasino fws''. Qelw na sas pw oti otan sebomaste th Dhmokratia, th sebomaste apolytws, se ola ta mhkh kai plath toy politeymatos. H Dhmokratia, loipon, exei nomoys. An kapoios diafwnei me to nomo einai zhthma proswpikhs ypoqeshs na proballei th diafwnia toy. Mporei na exei kai sobara epixeirhmata, mporei kai na peisei. Se kaqe periptwsh, omws, den einai qema anoigmatos enos fwtos, opws eipate eseis, gia na askhsei kapoios ena nomimo dikaiwma. Alimono! Sth Dhmokratia yparxoyn nomoi. Ean kapoios epilejei na askhsei to syntagmatika katoxyrwmeno dikaiwma toy na prosfygei sth Dikaiosynh, den mporei na ton kathgorhsei kanenas gi` ayto. Allwste, efoson exoyme empistosynh sth Dikaiosynh kai efoson kapoios brisketai ypologos enwpion ths Dikaiosynhs kai exei dikio, den exei kanena logo na fobhqei to otidhpote. Den mporw, loipon, na dexqw oti doqhke edw kapoio ``prasino'' h alloy eidoys fws, otan ayto to opoio eipa xqes htan oti ``o kaqenas mporei na exei ton tropo ths antidrashs toy, sto plaisio toy Syntagmatos kai twn nomwn''.

BLAXOS: Nai, alla to nomo ton kanete eseis oi politikoi. Kai o nomos aytos egine gia na prostateyqoyn oi politikoi apo tis apokalyceis kai na katatromokrathqoyn oi dhmosiografoi. Einai safestato ayto. Opws egine se mia periodo poy to PASOK htan strimwgmeno gia na antimetwpistei ayth h lailapa twn apokalycewn enantion toy PASOK, poy odhghsan kai sthn ptwsh toy PASOK kai eferan th Nea Dhmokratia sthn ejoysia, etsi egine kai twra, se mia stigmh poy eiste pali strimwgmenoi. Ta binteo paizontai, den ginetai mia paraplhroforhsh, binteo yphrxe me ton k. Regkoyza, opoy fanhke na leei ayta poy eipe kai ton kalesan sthn ekpomph na pei ``kyrioi den einai etsi ta pragmata opws ta paroysiazete'' kai den ebgaine. Kai twra, to mono poy menei ston k. Regkoyza kai sthn kybernhsh einai na kataqetei agwgh 800.000 eyrw;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Den qa apanthsw sta epimeroys erwthmata. Qa sas apanthsw mono, sto prwto poy epishmanate. Qa moy epitrecete na pw oti ws apoch th qewrw epikindynh. Eipate oti ``to nomo ton kanate eseis oi politikoi''. Qewrw oti einai akrws epikindynh ayth h antilhch kai pisteyw oti mallon sas diefyge, sthn entash isws ths stigmhs.

BLAXOS: Den moy diefyge. Syneidhta thn eipa. Giati einai epikindynh. Poios chfise ton nomo k. Roysopoyle; Egw; Apanthste moy.

ROYSOPOYLOS: An den sas diefyge, tote einai epikindyno ayto poy eipate ws dhmosiografos, ara leitoyrgos ths enhmerwshs. Oysiastika epiteqhkate enantion ths Boylhs twn Ellhnwn. H Boylh twn Ellhnwn eklegetai apo toys Ellhnes polites kai eklegetai gia na nomoqetei. Gi` ayto sas eipa ``skefteite to kai pali, oti mallon laqos kanate''.

BLAXOS: O laos chfise kata toy PASOK stis prohgoymenes ekloges kai sas efere gia na exete ena diaforetiko hqos. Ayth h istoria twn agwgwn enantion twn dhmosiografwn htan deigma twn hmerwn toy PASOK kai dystyxws blepoyme na synexizetai kai epi twn hmerwn ths Neas Dhmokratias, enw o laos apofasise oti eprepe na katadikasei to prohgoymeno kaqestws kai na ferei ena neo kaqestws, mia nea diakybernhsh. Omws, ayto to kaqestws twn agwgwn synexizetai. Akribws ayto epishmainw. Oti enw o laos apofasise, eseis synexizete mia katadikasmenh praktikh. Einai safestato ayto poy lew kai den moy jefyge tipota.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Einai dipla epikindyno, giati sas akoyei para polys kosmos, otan apeyqyneste mesa apo ena hlektroniko Meso, to opoio exei poly megalh qeamatikothta. Sas akoyei o kosmos na lete ti -an apomonwsoyme to sygkekrimeno qema poy qesate- oti den prepei na throyntai oi nomoi. Qa moy epitrecete na sas pw oti exw teleiws diaforetikh apoch. Oi arxaioi Latinoi elegan ``dura lex, sed lex'', sklhros nomos, alla nomos. Ean aytos o nomos einai sklhros, na syzhthqei. Ean prepei na allajei, na syzhthqei. Alla, to na kanete khrygma oti den mporei na throyntai oi nomoi h den prepei na throyntai oi nomoi, antilambaneste poso epikindyno einai gia th Dhmokratia.

BLAXOS: Qa to syzhthsete, loipon;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Me poion k. Blaxo;

BLAXOS: Me tis Enwseis Syntaktwn.

ROYSOPOYLOS: @Exei ginei, kata kairoys, syzhthsh me thn Enwsh Idiokthtwn kai me thn @Enwsh Syntaktwn. Se ligh wra, exw synanthsh me ta dhmosiografika swmateia. Eimai bebaios oti qa einai ena apo ta qemata poy qa moy qesoyn.

GKOYTZANHS: H nomoqetikh prwtoboylia anhkei sthn kybernhsh. Swsta eipate oti prepei na efarmozontai oi nomoi. Swsta eipate oti nomoqetei h Boylh. Wstoso, h prwtoboylia gia na fernei nomoys kai na ginontai nomoi anhkei sthn kybernhsh. Eseis exete skopo na ferete ena nomosxedio poy na allajei ayto ton ``Typoktono'' nomo poy qespise palaiotera to PASOK kai edwse baseis gia biomhxania agwgwn kata toy Typoy;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Egw exw skopo na akoysw epixeirhmata apo oles tis pleyres kai sth synexeia na eishghqw.

GKOYTZANHS: H kybernhsh den exei qesh; Qa akoysete epixeirhmata.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Qa akoysw ta epixeirhmata. Einai ena qema to opoio anefyh twra, se poly megalh entash. Kata kairoys, exei graftei se mikroterh entash. Qa akoysw, loipon, ta epixeirhmata kai analoga qa kriqei ean prepei na ginei kapoia allagh h oxi.

BLAXOS: Eseis apoch den exete, k. Roysopoyle, ws prwhn dhmosiografos;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Exw, kyrie Blaxo, alla den qa thn pw twra edw.

BLAXOS: Giati k. Ekproswpe;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Giati egw ekproswpw thn kybernhsh. Den qelw na fanei ws diaxwrismos qesews. Eimai edw ws kybernhtikos ekproswpos. Ofeilw na leitoyrgw qesmika. Kai ayto poy sas lew einai kaqara qesmiko. Den allazoyn oi nomoi etsi, apo th mia hmera sthn allh, oyte allazoyn oi nomoi epeidh dhmioyrgeitai ena reyma se kapoia MME. An dhmioyrgeitai ena reyma synolika sthn koinwnia, endexomenws, na to ejetasei kapoios. Alla den einai toso aplh ypoqesh h allagh enos nomoy, oyte me to ktyphma twn dyo daktylwn h Boylh apofasizei shmera ti qa kanei ayrio, me aformh ena gegonos h dyo gegonota.

GKOYTZANHS: To gegonos oti o k. Regkoyzas ekane agwgh, o k. Kefalogiannhs exei kanei mia agwgh@

ROYSOPOYLOS: Ekane kati paranomo;

GKOYTZANHS: Oxi, ekane kati nomimo.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Epeidh, den apanthsa sygkekrimena prohgoymenws, sas kalw na moy peite: Ekane kati paranomo; Gia na kanei agwgh pisteyei oti exei dikio, profanws. Pisteyei oti adikhqhke se tetoio baqmo poy parapoihqhkan oi apoceis toy, oi idees toy, oi energeies toy ws politiko proswpo. Qa toy sterhsete to dikaiwma na yperaspistei ton eayto toy;

MOSXOBAS: Yparxei kai h mhnysh omws. Egw milhsa gia ``biomhxania agwgwn''. Yparxei kai h mhnysh. H agwgh einai ena allo pragma.

GKOYTZANHS: Ws pros thn ``biomhxania agwgwn'' allo hqela na pw. Oti o k. Regkoyzas kateqese agwgh. O k. Kefalogiannhs to eipe dhmosiws oti ``kerdisa mia agwgh apo to sygkrothma Lamprakh kai twra exw allh agwgh poy qa thn kerdisw apo to QEMA''. O k. Sp. Sphliwtopoylos ki aytos proeidopoiei oti qa kataqesei agwges. Dhladh, den exoyme memonwmenes periptwseis. Edw exoyme mia epidhmia, sxedon, agwgwn apo kybernhtika stelexh enantion toy Typoy. Kai oso gia thn ypoqesh toy k. Regkoyza, to mono poy mporw na pw einai oti den toy apodoqhke sygkekrimenh kathgoria gia diafqora h otidhpote. Politikh kathgoria toy apodoqhke. Me poia logikh phgainei mia politikh kathgoria sto dikasthrio; Ayto einai to erwthma.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Qa to krinei to dikasthrio, loipon.

BLAXOS: Eseis poy eidate to binteo kai enhmerwsate ton Prwqypoyrgo, eidate apo to binteo oti adikhqhke;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Qa to krinei to dikasthrio. Efoson h ypoqesh einai sthn dikaiosynh den prokeitai na sxoliasw tipota perissotero.

BLAXOS: O Prwqypoyrgos, dhladh, poy ekane dekth thn paraithsh toy, adikhse ton k. Regkoyza;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Kyrie Blaxo, sebasteite parakalw kai toys alloys synadelfoys sas, oi opoioi shkwnoyn to xeri poly wra gia na kanoyn mia erwthsh kai den toys afhnete. Den sas exw dwsei to logo.

BLAXOS: Einai poly shmantiko na apanthqei ayto k. Ekproswpe.

ROYSOPOYLOS: An ypainisseste oti ta alla poy rwtoyn oi synadelfoi sas den einai shmantika, egw ektimw oti shmantika einai ola ta erwthmata.

KORAH: To gegonos oti aytes oi agwges synodeyontai, akribws, apo poly shmantika posa, den problhmatizei thn kybernhsh; Qa einai kai ayto ena apo ta qemata poy qa syzhthsete me tis dhmosiografikes Enwseis;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Ta panta qa syzhthsw. Qa akoysw tis apoceis, qa akoysw ta epixeirhmata.

KORAH: Sas problhmatizei ayto; Dioti, bebaiws, mporoyme na anagnwrizoyme to dikaiwma kapoioy poy qewrei oti qigetai, na katafygei sth dikaiosynh.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Oxi, den to anagnwrizete eseis. Epitrecete moy na sas diakocw.

KORAH: Oloi qa to anagnwrisoyme.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Oxi, den to anagnwrizete eseis. To anagnwrizei mia dhmokratia, h opoia einai sthmenh edw kai xiliades xronia. Alimono. Dhladh, den to anagnwrizei h sygkekrimenh koinwnikh omada@

KORAH: Fysika. Epeidh exoyn ekfrastei kai alles apoceis, egw proswpika eimai mazi toys. Omws, to qewrw paralogo apo thn allh, epeidh leme kai kapoies proswpikes apoceis, to na zhta gia paradeigma o k. Regkoyzas, poy ton anaferame twra, 800.000 eyrw. Mporei kapoios na kataqetei agwgh, alla na mhn einai toso ychla ta posa kai na anazhthqoyn opws kai se alles dhmokratikes koinwnies, kapoies alles kyrwseis sta MME, otan apodeiknyetai sta dikasthria oti sykofantoyn sygkekrimena atoma kai oxi ola ayta ta ejoyqenwtika posa.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Eimai bebaios oti tis protaseis sas qa tis kataqesete sto epaggelmatiko swmateio sas, to opoio, oytws h allws, einai se syzhthsh mazi moy.

KORAH: H kybernhsh qa tis dei;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Sas eipa oti stis 14:00 exw synanthsh me to swmateio sas. Ti ennoeite `` qa tis dei''; Dhladh, ti allo na kanw;

BLAXOS: Ennoei, ean problhmatizetai h kybernhsh apo ayto to klima. Problhmatizetai;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Exw apanthsei.

KORAH: Den exete apanthsei.

BLAXOS: Yparxei ena klima, den to blepete; Sas parakalw para poly. Epikaloymai th dhmosiografikh sas idiothta. Hsastan dhmosiografos prin liga xronia kai qa mporoysate na hsastan ki eseis, endexomenws, en adikw, se ayth th qesh. Den sas problhmatizei; Alhqeyei ayto poy akoygetai oti kapoioi symboyloi exoyn dhmioyrghsei thn entypwsh ston k. Karamanlh pws oi dhmosiografoi exoyn symmaxhsei oloi enantion toy kai oti qeloyn na ton rijoyn kai exei dhmioyrghqei sto steno periballon toy Prwqypoyrgoy ena klima oti oi dhmosiografoi einai oi megaloi exqroi, toys opoioys prepei na patajoyme me kaqe tropo; Yparxei ayto to klima ston Prwqypoyrgo;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Den jerw poios egkefalos gennhse ayth th fantasiwsh poy eipate. Einai pantelws ceydhs pantws.

TSIODRAS: Sto idio qema: Safws yparxei nomika h dynatothta kapoios na prosfygei, na kanei agwgh, na kanei mhnysh h otidhpote. Omws, nomizw oti enas politikos krinei kyriws politika. To lew giati qa anaferqw se esas. Yphrjan gia esas kapoia dhmosieymata. Steilate kapoia epistolh, den dialejate ton dromo ths agwghs. Qa mporoysate na kanete, den qa mporoysate; Profanws krinate politika, to oti den qa prepei na kanete. Giati;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Exw pei apo xqes -kai proxqes nomizw- oti kaqe politiko stelexos epilegei ton tropo antidrash toy. Arkei aytos o tropos antidrashs toy na einai entos toy plaisioy toy Syntagmatos, toy nomoy, ths Dhmokratias mas. Ayto to aplo pragma lew. Mporoyme na syzhtame gi ayto osh wra qelete. Einai ena qema, to opoio eimai bebaios oti qa moy qesei h ESHEA kai oi alles Enwseis se synanthsh poy exw mazi toys. Einai ena qema to opoio akroqigws eixe teqei -se emena toylaxiston- kai apo thn Enwsh Idiokthtwn Hmerhsiwn Efhmeridwn Aqhnwn. Eixame syzhthsei kai eixa akoysei kapoies protaseis. Qa akoysw tis protaseis, einai eykairia na ginei enas analytikoteros dialogos, kai qa doyme poy qa katalhjei ayth h ypoqesh.

KAKALHS: Se allo qema: O Proedros ths Dhmokratias eipe xqes oti h politikh twn HPA den epilyei, alla dhmioyrgei adiejoda. Aisqanetai h kybernhsh oti h politikh twn HPA dhmioyrgei kapoia adiejoda, eite sto Kypriako, sto opoio anaferqhke o Proedros, eite sto Skopiano, eite se kapoio allo qema ths ejwterikhs politikhs h o Proedros apla ekfrazei kapoies apoceis poy den patane sthn pragmatikothta;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Opws gnwrizete, emeis ton Proedro ton sebomaste, pisteyw oloi mas. Den sxoliazw pote dhlwseis toy Proedroy ths Dhmokratias.

KYRITSHS: Se ena allo qema: Janaferate xqes to paradeigma toy prwhn ypoyrgoy Amynas me tis ereynes poy ginontai gia to endexomeno xrhmatismoy toy apo gallikh etaireia. To idio paradeigma xrhsimopoioyn kai alla stelexh sas, o k. Meimarakhs to xrhsimopoiei sxedon kaqe hmera. Kai qelw na rwthsw: Epeidh h etaireia ``THALES'', apo thn opoia ypotiqetai oti egine o,ti egine, einai sthn oysia eyryteros dhmosios tomeas gia th Gallia, ean h gallikh pleyra eixe erqei se epafh me thn ellhnikh kybernhsh gi ayto to qema kai epeidh mia hmera prin bgei sth ``MONTE'' -nomizw- o Prwqypoyrgos htan sth Gallia kai oi dyo antiproswpeies eixan makra synergasia gia zhthmata amynas, ean elexqh kati sxetiko ekei.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Se o,ti afora th synanthsh toy Prwqypoyrgoy den elexqh kati sxetiko. Allwste, nomizw, oti ayta akoloyqhsan thn periodo poy o Prwqypoyrgos synanthqhke me ton Proedro ths Gallikhs Dhmokratias. Sta loipa, qa sas pw oti h dikaiosynh asxoleitai me to qema kai parakalw, ean yparxei kapoio erwthma, pros to ypoyrgeio Dikaiosynhs h pros to ypoyrgeio Eqnikhs Amynhs, ta synarmodia ypoyrgeia, apeyqynete to ekei. Den to gnwrizw egw.

PAPAGIANNHS: Proxqes, eixate afhsei na ennohqei oti h kybernhsh den kalyptei ton k. Gkargkana, ws pros tis plhrofories poy aneferan oti ayjhqhke o misqos toy kata 18%. Xqes, se diaforetiko klima, eipate oti oi plhrofories den htan epibebaiwmenes kai den einai etsi. Exw edw, loipon, mprosta moy -kai qa hqela na to cajete eseis- ti eixe dhlwsei o k. Gkargkanas thn 11.6.2002, se Epitroph sth Boylh, apantwntas ston k. Kaklamanh, legontas pws ``oi kaqares apodoxes moy gia ton Dioikhth, anerxontai se 6.000.000 drx.''. Exw, omws, kai thn misqologikh katastash ths Trapezas ths Ellados mprosta moy, opoy fainetai pws o k. Gkargkanas eisprattei akaqarista 23.625 eyrw. Mporeite sas parakalw na cajete to qema gia na jeroyme kai epishmws poia einai h qesh ths kybernhshs kai ean o k. Gkargkanas telika exei ayjhsei kata 18% to misqo toy;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Mporw na diabibasw to erwthma sas sto ypoyrgeio Oikonomias kai Oikonomikwn gia na exete apanthsh, otan to ypoyrgeio qa einai etoimo na th dwsei.

GKOYTZANHS: Xqes, eidame kapoies dhlwseis toy boyleyth Axaias k. Nikoy Nikolopoyloy, o opoios epanhlqe -me drimythta kiolas- enantion toy k. Roiloy gia thn ``Patra Politistikh Prwteyoysa'', epiteqhke ston ypoyrgo ths kybernhshs Sp. Sphliwtopoylo, enw ekane kai kritikh ston Prwqypoyrgo. Yparxei qema paramonhs toy k. Nikolopoyloy sthn Koinoboyleytikh Omada ths N.D., meta apo ayth thn emfanish;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Eimai poly epifylaktikos ws pros to pws apotypwqhkan kapoies dhlwseis. Egw epikoinwnhsa me ton k. Nikolopoylo shmera. Moy edwse to stigma twn dhlwsewn toy. Den blepw na yparxei kapoio problhma.

SPYRAKH: Me sygxwreite poy parembainw, yparxei binteo.

ROYSOPOYLOS: To amfisbhthsa ka Spyrakh, ayto;

BLAXOS: Apla, leei h k. Spyrakh, anti na ton parete thlefwno na deite to binteo.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Poy na prolabw na ta dw ola;

BLAXOS: Qelw na epanelqw sto qema Papoylia: Eipate oti den sxoliazete ton k. Papoylia. Den exw akoysei, omws, kamia kybernhtikh phgh na sxoliazei thn energeia ths k. Rais na kalesei ton k. Talat.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Opws jerete o k. Talat kaleitai genikws se diafores xwres, ap` o,ti gnwrizw -den jerw na sas pw se poses to ypoyrgeio Ejwterikwn einai pio armodio apo emena na apanthsei- me thn idiothta thn opoia pragmatika exei kai oxi ayth poy o idios qelei na leei oti exei. Dhladh, ws arxhgos ths toyrkokypriakhs koinothtas.

BLAXOS: Einai parembash twn Amerikanwn;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Sas lew oti, otan kaleitai ws arxhgos ths toyrkokypriakhs koinothtas, ayth einai kai h idiothta poy toy anagnwrizoyn oloi, kai h Ellada, den yparxei kapoio problhma.

MOSXOBAS: Den afora ton k. Papoylia. Nomizw oti afora oloys h qesh ths kybernhshs, ean ektima oti h politikh twn HPA odhgei se adiejoda. Jexaste ton k. Papoylia.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Den qa pw tipota perissotero. Exw apanthsei. Antilambaneste oti otidhpote pw perissotero qa syndeqei me tis dhlwseis toy Proedroy ths Dhmokratias.

BLAXOS: Mhn arghsoyme giati teleiwnei h periodos poy eimaste ejw apo tis fylakes, katalabate; Prepei na gyrisoyme pisw, ston Korydallo. Ekei qa fqasoyme, k. Roysopoyle, me sygxwreite.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Nomizw oti exete mia yperbolikh anafora sto sygkekrimeno qema, alla kai se oles tis parathrhseis kai erwthseis poy kanate shmera.

PEPONHS: Dhmosieyetai shmera stis efhmerides, mia ereyna ths mh kybernhtikhs organwshs ``Dieqnhs Diafaneia'' poy proistatai h k. Tsoyderoy, me thn opoia apodeiknyetai oti den exei ginei kamia proodos sth xwra mas, oyte stoys teleytaioys 20 mhnes poy eiste kybernhsh, ws pros thn patajh ths diafqoras. Poio einai to sxolio sas;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Qelw na sas pw, kat` arxas, gia na gnwrizete ean den gnwrizete, oti o dieqnhs deikths ths diafaneias ypologizetai me bash ta erwthmata poy apeyqynontai se ennea kathgories epaggelmatikwn kai koinwnikwn omadwn, dyo apo tis opoies einai Ellhnes kai jenoi epixeirhmaties poy erxontai se epafh me to dhmosio. Ayto, prwton, gia na jerei kaneis pws ginetai ayth h ereyna. Deyteron, den exete kaqoloy dikio sthn epishmansh poy kanete. Milame gia thn periodo toy 2004, toys prwtoys mhnes ths neas diakybernhshs, sthn opoia opws leei ayth h ekqesh, h Ellada anebhke kata dyo qeseis, sygkekrimena apo thn 49h sthn 47h, paroti ayjhqhke o ariqmos twn xwrwn poy entaxqhkan pleon sthn ereyna ths dieqnoys diafaneias, apo 146 se 159. Paroti, dhladh, ayjhqhke o ariqmos twn xwrwn poy ereyna h ekqesh ths Dieqnoys Diafaneias kata 10%, h Ellada hrqe se kalyterh qesh apo ayth poy htan, metajy mikroteroy ariqmoy xwrwn. Ta prwta deigmata einai qetika alla den einai ayta ta opoia mas kanoyn na kaqhsyxazoyme. Einai mia maxh poy qelei poly xrono kai qa thn synexisoyme. Den mporw na sas pw, dhladh, oti teleiwse to qema kai oti eimaste ikanopoihmenoi. Eimaste ikanopoihmenoi apo to oti arxizei kai deixnei pws h drash ths kybernhshs kai se ayton ton tomea exei apotelesma. Qeloyme na einai poly megalytero to apotelesma. Kai qa synexisoyme.

GKOYTZANHS: Kyrie Ekproswpe, xqes, nomizw oti paraithqhke o k. Mwyshs, melos toy D.S. ths DEH, meta apo diafwnies me ton k. Palaiokrasa. Palaiotera eixe paraithqei o k. Nezhs Dieyqynwn Symboylos ths DEH, pali meta apo diafwnies me ton k. Palaiokrasa. Jerete ean qa paraithqoyn kai alla melh toy D.S. logw diafwniwn toys me ton k. Palaiokrasa kai ean ayto anhsyxei thn kybernhsh;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Den einai aytos o logos ton opoio anaferate. Anaferetai sthn epistolh paraithshs. Kamia sxesh den exei ayto poy lete me thn paraithsh toy k. Mwysh.

MPOTSARAKOS: To asymbibasto ayto isxye kai palaiotera;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Anaferei toys logoys sthn paraithsh toy. Den qa pw tipota perissotero.

MPOTSARAKOS: Rwtw, k. Ekproswpe, ean to asymbibasto ayto isxye h oxi kai palaiotera.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Epanalambanw: Anaferei toys logoys sthn paraithsh toy. Tipota perissotero.

Sas eyxaristw.

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