Greek Government Press Briefing, 04-12-21

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From: The Hellenic Ministry of Press & Mass Media <http://www.minpress.gr/>

Aqhna, 21 Dekembrioy 2004

APO TON YPOYRGO EPIKRATEIAS KAI KYBERNHTIKO EKPROSWPO

QEODWRO ROYSOPOYLO

Xairete kai Xronia Polla.

O Prwqypoyrgos, shmera stis 5.30 to apogeyma, qa synanthqei, sto Megaro Majimoy, me ton presbh twn HPA k. Tomas Miler. H synanthsh exei eqimotypiko xarakthra. Opws gnwrizete, o k. Miler syntajiodoteitai kai apoxwrei.

Prin apo ligo oloklhrwqhke h synedriash ths Kybernhtikhs Epitrophs, me qema thn Ekklhsiastikh Ekpaideysh. H ypoyrgos Paideias exei hdh probei se dhlwseis. Syntoma qa dwsei sth dhmosiothta ena neo nomosxedio poy afora sthn Ekklhsiastikh Ekpaideysh.

Shmera, einai h teleytaia enhmerwsh ths xronias. H epomenh enhmerwsh qa ginei stis 10 Ianoyarioy 2005.

Parakalw, tis erwthseis sas.

GARGALAKOS: Kyrie Ypoyrge, sto nomosxedio gia to basiko metoxo qa dexqeite protaseis kai tropopoihseis;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Bebaiws kai qa dexqoyme, efoson aytes kinoyntai sthn kateyqynsh beltiwshs toy nomosxedioy, ennow sthn kateyqynsh peraiterw ejasfalishs kanonwn diafaneias. Einai anqrwpino kai apolytws fysiko -para th megalh epejergasia poy exei ginei apo egkritoys nomikoys- na yparxoyn endexomenws shmeia poy na epidexontai kapoiwn beltiwsewn. Opoiadhpote, loipon, epoikodomhtikh protash qa thn akoysoyme kai qa th syzhthsoyme sth Boylh.

DHMOSIOGRAFOS: Ti ginetai me to Koinotiko Dikaio kai to basiko metoxo; Nomizw oti yparxei kapoia sygxysh, enas problhmatismos. Pws qa jeperastei aytos o skopelos;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Sto nomosxedio exoyn lhfqei oles oi pronoies, wste na mhn yparjoyn kwlymata, ta opoia na dhmioyrgoyn problhmata me bash thn koinotikh nomoqesia.

DHMOSIOGRAFOS: Ayto to jeperasma poy proteinei h kybernhsh qa afhsei kai anoikth thn ermhneia toy ``paraqyroy'', as poyme, se kapoies drasthriothtes;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Se kamia periptwsh. Eimaste sthn Eyrwpaikh Enwsh, exoyme toys dikoys mas nomoys kai Syntagma. Yparxoyn koinotikoi kanones poy epishs prepei na akoloyqoyntai kai den parabiazontai. Den yparxei kanena ``paraqyro'', dioti h basikh filosofia toy nomosxedioy, h opoia zhtei thn onomastikopoihsh toy fysikoy proswpoy yfistatai.

SARANTAKOS: O Ellhnas Epitropos k. Dhmas exei enhmerwqei gia to nomosxedio; Exei ekfrasei tis apoceis toy h den exete krinei skopimo na ton enhmerwsete;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Exei ginei syzhthsh me diaforoys foreis. Diabasa shmera se kapoio dhmosieyma oti den exei ginei syzhthsh. Prokeitai gia laqos plhroforhsh kai moy projenei entypwsh, giati exw anakoinwsei, edw se ayth thn aiqoysa, tis epafes me diaforoys foreis. Gia thn epejergasia toy nomosxedioy synesthqh Epitroph apo ton ypoyrgo Dikaiosynhs k. Anastash Papalhgoyra apo egkritoys nomikoys. H Epitroph ayth epejergasthke epi eji mhnes ena polyploko sxedio nomoy. Apo ekei kai pera, yparxei se ejelijh -toylaxiston edw kai tria xronia- mia syzhthsh me thn Eyrwpaikh Enwsh kai tis armodies yphresies ths. Exoyn lhfqei sobara ypoch kapoies apo tis parathrhseis. Kapoies alles parathrhseis qewroyme oti den exoyn bash, dhladh den edrazontai se staqero edafos. Proxwrhsame, etsi opws emeis krinoyme, xwris na parabiazoyme to Koinotiko Dikaio, xqes brady sthn paroysiash toy nomosxedioy.

DHMOSIOGRAFOS: Alhqeyei oti o Prwqypoyrgos sthn prosfath synanthsh toy me ton k. Stefanopoylo syzhthse to endexomeno na ``trejei'' pio grhgora h diadikasia ths diadoxhs toy k. Stefanopoyloy apo ton k. Papoylia, me to endexomeno meta tis giortes na paraithqei o Proedros th Dhmokratias kai na pame se grhgoroterh koinoboyleytikh diadikasia;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Den yparxei tetoia plhroforhsh. Den blepw, omws, kai to logo.

SIDERHS: Einai idion ths kybernhshs molis erxetai se epafh me thn pragmatikothta na jafniazetai. O Prwqypoyrgos dhlwse oti den allazei eykola o dhmosios tomeas, an kai htan enas apo toys akrogwniaioys liqoys ths politikhs sas to mikro kybernhtiko sxhma. Otan qa katanohsete pws leitoyrgei o dhmosios tomeas na perimenoyme mikro sxhma kai pote to blepete;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Katalaba to sxolio, alla den katalaba thn erwthsh. Mporeite na thn epanalabete;

SIDERHS: Gia to sxolio egine basika.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Krateiste eseis to sxolio@

SIDERHS: Na perimenoyme entos ths 4etias mikro kybernhtiko sxhma;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Na perimenete, giati den exoyn perasei kala-kala 10 mhnes kai eseis milate san na exei teleiwsei h 4etia. H kybernhsh exei proxwrhsei se para polloys tomeis sthn epanidrysh toy dhmosioy tomea. Einai mia diarkhs prospaqeia. Einai kati poy gnwrizame oti einai para poly dyskolo. Ayto to gnwrizoyn oloi oi Ellhnes polites, giati exoyn -me ton ena h ton allo tropo- kaqhmerinh epafh, polles fores epwdynh, me th Dhmosia Dioikhsh. Ayth thn epwdynh kaqhmerinh epafh prospaqoyme na thn kanoyme oso ginetai pio anwdynh, kalyterh, apotelesmatikoterh kai perissotero prosith ston polith. To pio prosfato deigma ayths ths prospaqeias einai h tropopoihsh poy efere to ypoyrgeio Ygeias sto systhma twn nosokomeiwn. Gia prwth fora meta apo tria h tessera h pente xronia blepete megala nosokomeia twn Aqhnwn na mhn exoyn kaqoloy rantza. Akomh ki an exoyn 15 rantza -ekei poy yphrxan 150 rantza thn hmera- thn epomenh hmera ayta na exoyn ejafanistei, na exoyn dioxeteyqei oi asqeneis se alla nosokomeia kai epomenws na exei beltiwqei me drastiko tropo h leitoyrgia enos nosokomeioy. Kaneis den fantazotan ayto prin apo eji mhnes. Idoy, loipon, mia apotelesmatikh drash ths kybernhshs se enan tomea poy afora ton Ellhna polith, thn ejyphrethsh toy, to sebasmo sthn proswpikothta toy kai poy anadeiknyei kai apodeiknyei thn apotelesmatikothta ayths ths kybernhshs.

SOYGLERHS: Kyrie Ypoyrge, exete kapoia eikona gia sygxwneysh h katarghsh ypoyrgeiwn;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Opws gnwrizete exei hdh katarghqei ena ypoyrgeio kai exei systaqei to ypoyrgeio Toyristikhs Anaptyjhs poy apoteloyse desmeysh mas. O ypoyrgos Eswterikwn k. Paylopoylos, ws armodios ypoyrgos, exei hdh sxedia, apo ta opoia alla exoyn anakoinwqei kai alla lian syntomws qa anakoinwqoyn, gia thn epanidrysh toy kratoys, gia ena kalytero tropo leitoyrgias ths Dhmosias Dioikhshs. Yparxoyn problhmata. Ta gnwrizoyme, ta diapistwnoyme kai sthn prajh. Ayta ta problhmata den ta afhnoyme etsi, ta antimetwpizoyme. Qa sas ferw ena paradeigma gia ena xwro oikeio se oloys mas, thn ERT: Anakoinwsame prin apo peripoy enamisi mhna oti proxwroyme se dieqnh diagwnismo. Megalos jenos oikos, o opoios qa kerdisei to diagwnismo, kaleitai na bohqhsei sthn anadiorganwsh ths. Einai nohto se mia epixeirhsh poy exei ena antikeimeno, dhladh thn paragwgh thleoptikoy proiontos, na yparxoyn kai na leitoyrgoyn treis dieyqynseis leitoyrgias; Gia poio logo; Ginontai, loipon, prospaqeies kaqhmerina. Yparxoyn ypoyrgeia poy sygxwneythkan sto parelqon, diathrwntas akeraih th domh enos ekastoy ypoyrgeioy. Xarakthristiko paradeigma apotelei to ypoyrgeio Anaptyjhs. Diathrhsan, dhladh, diaforetika kommatia mesa se ena ypoyrgeio. Eite aytes einai Grammateies, eite Dieyqynseis, xwris na ginei oysiastikh proseggish, wste na dhmioyrghqei ena eniaio ypoyrgeio me o,ti ayto synepagetai. Kyriws synepagetai kalyterh leitoyrgia ths Dhmosias Dioikhshs, ligoterh grafeiokratikh diadikasia, megalyterh apotelesmatikothta.

XIWTHS: Sto mikro kai eyelikto kybernhtiko sxhma h desmeysh poy yphrxe sto kybernhtiko programma ths Neas Dhmokratias htan amesh. Doqhke mia anabolh, thn opoia dikaiologhse o idios o Prwqypoyrgos, logw twn anagkwn ths olympiakhs proetoimasias@

ROYSOPOYLOS: Poy to eipe ayto o Prwqypoyrgos; Ayto htan kati poy grafthke stis efhmerides. Den eipe kati tetoio o Prwqypoyrgos.

XIWTHS: Me sygxwreite. To eipe kai an qelete na to broyme.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Bebaiws kai qelw.

XIWTHS: To eipe otan anakoinwse to kybernhtiko sxhma sto prwto Ypoyrgiko Symboylio. Apo th stigmh, loipon, poy perase hdh h anagkh toy olympiakoy sxhmatos, h anagkh periorismoy toy kybernhtikoy sxhmatos einai mia amesh desmeysh, den einai desmeysh se orizonta tetraetias.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Den eipwqhke kati tetoio apo ton Prwqypoyrgo. H periodos twn Olympiakwn Agwnwn mporei na elhje, alla oysiastika exoyme mia seira qematwn poy prepei na ginoyn mexri to telos toy 2005, me kyriotero olwn h ajiopoihsh, yper toy Ellhna polith, ths olympiakhs perioysias eite ylikhs, eite aylhs. Hdh kai se ayton ton tomea exoyn ginei polles energeies. Paroysia toy Prwqypoyrgoy anakoinwqhkan, prin apo dyo ebdomades, kapoia apo ta sxedia poy exoyn arxisei na ginontai pragmatikothta.

Se o,ti afora to eyelikto sxhma: H kybernhsh leitoyrgei me pio eyelikto sxhma apo o,ti leitoyrgoysan prohgoymenes kybernhseis kai ayto apodeiknyetai apo thn apotelesmatikothta ths. Sas anefera hdh dyo, tria shmeia. Mporei kapoios na pei kai alla. Qewroyme, loipon, oti einai ena eyelikto sxhma poy leitoyrgei, apodidei kai to opoio, opws ola, krinetai kai ayto sthn poreia.

XIWTHS: Ayto poy lete shmera eseis, einai diaforetiko apo ayto poy eipe xqes o Prwqypoyrgos. O Prwqypoyrgos anagnwrise thn anagkh peraiterw periorismoy toy kybernhtikoy sxhmatos@

ROYSOPOYLOS: Gi` ayto sas eipa ``krinetai sthn poreia''. Ara, den einai kaqoloy diaforetiko ayto poy sas eipa.

XIWTHS: Oxi, eseis eipate oti apo th stigmh poy einai eyelikto kai leitoyrgiko den xrhzei peraiterw beltiwsewn.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Shmasia exei na apodidei. Kai apodidei. Kai eipa sth synexeia ``krinetai sthn poreia''. Kaqe ti poy krinetai sthn poreia, oysiastika xrhzei anadiarqrwsewn. Ayto, omws, se kaqe periptwsh einai apokleistika eyqynh toy Prwqypoyrgoy.

XIWTHS: Sto programma sas, epishs, an den kanw laqos yphrxe h desmeysh na meiwqoyn oi ypografes se kaqe dhmosio eggrafo. Parathrw sto nomosxedio gia to basiko metoxo oti ypografoyn oloi oi ypoyrgoi. Qelw na rwthsw ayto egine epeidh kriqhke nomika h politika anagkaio gia na ginei etsi;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Sthn idia erwthsh qetete dyo diaforetika qemata. Einai anomoia h sygkrish poy kanete. H politikh barythta toy nomosxedioy anadeiknyetai kai apo thn ypografh olwn twn melwn toy Ypoyrgikoy Symboylioy. Se o,ti afora stis ypografes h desmeysh mas exei hdh ginei pragmatikothta. Yphrxan eggrafa poy xreiazontan 10-15 ypografes kai stadiaka meiwnontai stis treis ypografes, etsi wste na diakinoyntai kai na ftanoyn ston polith poly grhgora kai me thn kalyterh dynath apotelesmatikothta.

XIWTHS: Me prokaleite. Moy lete oti ypegracan ola ta melh toy Ypoyrgikoy Symboylioy gia na katadeixqei h politikh barythta toy egxeirhmatos kai na isxyropoihqei politika. Den arkei h ypografh toy Prwqypoyrgoy gi` ayto;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Sas eipa oti h politikh barythta katadeiknyetai me dyo tropoys: Prwton, h politikh apofash ths kybernhshs na proxwrhsei kai proxwraei se mia proeklogikh desmeysh ths, dhladh to aithma ths diafaneias. Deyteron, h synypografh enos nomosxedioy apo ta melh toy Ypoyrgikoy Symboylioy, to opoio anadeiknyei, epishs, thn politikh barythta.

GALIATSATOS: Kyrie Ypoyrge, sto arqro 4 toy nomosxedioy gia to basiko metoxo paragrafos gia tis ejwxwries etaireies anaferetai oti apagoreyetai h symmetoxh toys sto metoxiko kefalaio mias etaireias poy synaptei dhmosies symbaseis h mias etaireias, h opoia einai epixeirhsh MME, se pososto 1%. Ayto shmainei, epeidh den brhka sto nomosxedio problech gia aqroistiko pososto off shore, oti sto metoxiko kefalaio mias tetoias epixeirhshs mporei na symmetexoyn perissoteres off shore, me pososto ews 0,9%; Kai akomh to arqro 6 toy nomosxedioy poy afora thn onomastikopoihsh. Tis allodapes etaireies opoy yparxei adynamia onomastikopoihshs problepei ekei h diadikasia oti h anaqetoysa arxh qa pairnei mia bebaiwsh apo thn armodia Arxh ths xwras oti einai adynamia onomastikopoihshs kai meta qa prospaqei na pistopoihsei thn onomastikopoihsh. H diadikasia, omws ayth den ginetai sygkekrimenh. Epishs, sto arqro 6 onomastikopoihsh-etaireies eswterikoy problepetai ejairesh apo thn onomastikopoihsh gia tis etaireies, yparxei enas oloklhros pinakas diatajewn, stis opoies apo tis metoxes toys, gia tis metoxes toys stis opoies symmetexoyn amoibaia kefalaia, etaireies k.lp. Ola ayta mporei na einai paraqyra sto na diapistwsoyme to pososto toy basikoy metoxoy;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Den mporoyn kai na sas ejhghsw giati: Oi off shore etaireies den mporoyn pia na entaxqoyn se kamia periptwsh sto metoxiko kefalaio ths mias h ths allhs etaireias, eite ayth einai etaireia MME, eite etaireia analhchs dhmosiwn symbasewn. Oi koinotikes etaireies, oi opoies mporei na metexoyn, h etaireies xwrwn poy exoyn symbaseis me thn Koinothta -poy diepontai dhladh apo to Koinotiko Dikaio, opws eixame pei anakoinwnontas to nomosxedio- einai etaireies poy ypoxreoyntai na ftasoyn en telei sthn ypodeijh toy fysikoy toys proswpoy. To ESR enisxyetai me tetoio tropo, wste na mporei na ftasei sto fysiko proswpo kai na ejetasei to poqen esxes toy fysikoy proswpoy. Ara, loipon, h filosofia poy apagoreyei tis opoiesdhpote parekkliseis h paraqyra kai kyriws bgazei teleiws ejw etaireies poy droyn se forologikoys paradeisoys einai ayth poy sas anefera: Onomastikopoihsh kai poqen esxes.

Oson afora sto deytero qema sxetika me ta amoibaia kefalaia, yparxei h ypoxrewsh onomastikopoihshs se mia eyrytath gkama etaireiwn. Ta amoibaia kefalaia ginontai apodekta, opws anaferei kai to nomosxedio, apo sygkekrimenes koinotikes xwres h xwres poy exoyn ypogracei symbaseis me thn Koinothta. Ta amoibaia kefalaia perikleioyn synhqws terastia posa kai proerxontai apo xwres poy katonomazontai apo ton OOSA kai gia tis opoies qa kanei eidikh mneia to ypoyrgeio Oikonomias se apofash poy qa ekdwsei. Qa sas dwsw ena paradeigma, giati den mporei kapoios na mpei mesw amoibaioy kefalaioy kai na ryqmisei ta ths mias h ths allhs etaireias me tropon wste na ephreazei oysiwdws thn katastash. Yparxoyn amoibaia kefalaia poy exoyn 20 ekatommyria metoxoys. Yparxoyn amoibaia kefalaia poy exoyn triplasio proypologismo apo ton proypologismo ths xwras. H symmetoxh, loipon, enos h perissoterwn epixeirhmatiwn se ena tetoio amoibaio kefalaio twn 20 ekatommyriwn metoxwn ana ton kosmo, einai symmetoxh poy oydolws mporei na ephreasei th leitoyrgia toy Mesoy sthn alfa h bhta kateyqynsh, thn opoia prospaqei na apokleisei aytos o nomos, wste na apokleistoyn fainomena toy parelqontos, opoy enas metoxos -basikos onomasthke sto Syntagma mas kai oristhke se ayton ton nomo oti einai toy 1%- na mporei na ephreasei thn epixeirhsh MME kai en synexeia mesw ayths thn opoia anaqetoysa arxh gia mia analhch dhmosias symbashs.

Ara, loipon, h basikh filosofia ``onomastikopoihsh, poqen esxes'' isxyei. H basikh filosofia ``off shore'', teleiws ``off'' apo ta MME h apo tis kataskeyastikes h tis alles etaireies dhmosiwn symbasewn epishs isxyei. Epitygxanetai etsi plhrhs diafaneia toy systhmatos.

GALIATSATOS: Gia tis anwnymes etaireias toy ejwterikoy den moy apanthsate, stis opoies yparxei adynamia onomastikopoihshs apo to Dikaio ths xwras stis opoies edreyoyn.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Sas apanthsa, se o,ti afora ta amoibaia kefalaia. Oi etaireies ekeines poy qeloyn na metasxoyn se diagwnismo ofeiloyn na dwsoyn plhrws onomastikopoihmenh katastash twn etairwn, twn metoxwn toys. Kai oxi mono twn etairwn, alla se ayto to nomosxedio problepetai kai ryqmish, opoy miloyme gia ton etairo toy etairoy h gia ton metoxo toy metoxoy, opoy, dhladh, fqanoyme ena skalopati parapera ston elegxo.

PALAIOLOGOS: To gegonos oti to nomosxedio gia ton basiko metoxo ypografetai apo ola ta melh toy Ypoyrgikoy Symboylioy, ayto shmainei sthn prajh kai synepagetai oti prosypografetai apo ola ta melh lejh pros lejh; Oti, dhladh, den yparxei kamia enstash, kamia yposhmeiwsh kai kanenas asteriskos kai apokleietai h toylaxiston apofeygetai sto mellon na yparjei kapoia diafwnia, endexomenws dhmosia, apo kapoio kybernhtiko stelexos;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Eseis otan bazete kapoy thn ypografh sas, fantazomai oti thn ennoeite, etsi den einai; Poso mallon, kapoios o opoios exei ypeyqynh qesh sto politiko systhma, einai ypoyrgos, proistatai enos ypoyrgeioy kai bebaiws me thn ypografh toy enisxyei thn politikh ayth prajh. Alimono!

PALAIOLOGOS: Rwtw mhpws einai mia prospaqeia -na to pw xontra- prokatabolikhs fimwshs twn melwn toy Ypoyrgikoy Symboylioy, oytws wste na apofeyxqoyn fainomena diafwniwn sto mellon.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Qa isxye ayto poy lete, ean yphrxan diafwnies se sxesh me thn proseggish stis diadikasies aytes poy diasfalizoyn megalyterh diafaneia sto dhmosio bio. Oxi mono den yparxoyn diafwnies, alla ola ta stelexh ths N.D. -kai sthn proeklogikh kai sth meteklogikh periodo- exoyn ekfrastei me ton idio akribws tropo gia thn anagkh na yparjei h megalyterh dynath diafaneia sto dhmosio bio.

GKOYTZANHS: Twra, meta thn efarmogh aytoy toy nomoy -otan ginei nomos- teleiwsame me th diaplokh, etsi; Den qa yparxei pleon diaplokh.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Exw apanthsei pali se ayth thn erwthsh, legontas sas oti mia Politeia ofeilei na qesmoqetei etsi wste na apokleiei ta problhmata ayta ta opoia h zwh apedeije oti dhmioyrgoyntai otan yparxei elleich qesmikoy plaisioy h otan yparxei qesmiko plaisio poy afhnei paraqyra.

GKOYTZANHS: Qa hqela na rwthsw gia to shmerino prwtoselido ths efhmeridas ``AYGH'' poy anaferetai se kapoies kataggelies gia basanismoys Afganwn politikwn prosfygwn apo astynomikoys. To exete ypoch sas;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Den exw enhmerwsh apo to ypoyrgeio Dhmosias Tajhs. Qelw na pisteyw oti den isxyei.

GKOYTZANHS: Ypoqetw oti h ellhnikh kybernhsh ta katadikazei.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Ennoeitai oti ta katadikazei. Exei janaginei antistoixh erwthsh sto parelqon, gia ypoqesh poy eixe symbei stis fylakes, kai sas eixa pei oti oxi aplws ta katadikazoyme, alla se aytes tis periptwseis dienergeitai kai ereyna gia na apodoqoyn oi eyqynes.

KAKALHS: Enhmerwqhke to Eyrwpaiko Symboylio -poy apo tis 17 toy mhna ypotiqetai oti parakoloyqei anellipws- gia th symperifora ths Toyrkias gia tis parabiaseis toy ellhnikoy enaerioy xwroy poy eginan xqes sto Aigaio;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Opws gnwrizete to Eyrwpaiko Symboylio me thn apofash h opoia elhfqh prin apo liges hmeres stis Bryjelles, thn ``istorikh apofash'' opws th xarakthrise o Prwqypoyrgos, qa enhmerwnetai pleon gia thn poreia twn diereynhtikwn epafwn poy yparxoyn metajy twn dyo xwrwn, Elladas-Toyrkia, etsi wste na breqei lysh sto problhma to opoiwn exei anakycei, edw kai polles dekaeties, metajy twn dyo xwrwn, to problhma ths yfalokrhpidas. H enhmerwsh ayth qa ginetai se takta xronika diasthmata, eite me prwtoboylia ths Elladas, eite me prwtoboylia ths Toyrkias, eite epeidh to idio to Eyrwpaiko Symboylio thn epizhta. Qemata san ayta, ta opoia anaferete, exw pei kai pali oti den bohqoyn sthn kalytereysh twn sxesewn twn dyo xwrwn, thn opoia epidiwkoyme, emeis toylaxiston, eilikrinws.

GKOYTZANHS: Jerete exei meinei mia aporia gia to oti h paragrafos 20, sto keimeno twn Symperasmatwn, mila gia ekkremeis synoriakes diafores. Poies einai aytes; Mporw na sas qymisw edw oti sth Boylh, otan eixe milhsei o k. Molybiaths, eixe apeyqynei ayto to erwthma ston k. Shmith gia thn antistoixh sto Elsinki. Ton eixe rwthsei ``poies einai aytes oi diafores;''. Logika ki emeis rwtame poies einai aytes oi diafores;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Orqws rwtate. Qa sas apanthsw poly sygkekrimena: Qymaste poly kala oti to keimeno toy Elsinki miloyse gia synoriakes diafores kai synafh qemata. H tote kybernhsh, toy k. Shmith, gia olh ayth th frash ``synoriakes diafores kai synafh qemata'', mas elege oti anaferetai mono sthn yfalokrhpida, h opoia allwste apotelei kai to mono paradekto apo thn Ellada problhma metajy twn dyo xwrwn. H kybernhsh ths N.D. ayto poy katafere htan na beltiwsei shmantika to keimeno toy Elsinki, afairwntas to ``tis synafeis diafores'' oi opoies sto myalo pollwn phgainan se gkrizes zwnes kai alla synafh problhmata. Periorizei drastika to pedio ths diaforas se mia: Sthn yfalokrhpida. Ayth einai h diafora thn opoia ennoei h ellhnikh kybernhsh, ayth einai thn opoia apodexetai.

PALAIOLOGOS: Wstoso, omws, se kanena epishmo keimeno ap` osa exoyn dei to fws ths dhmosiothtas mexri twra, den exei katagrafei h qesh ths Elladas oti h monh diafora mas einai h yfalokrhpida. Oyte sto keimeno ayto ths Synodoy Koryfhs.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Ayth einai thn opoia apodexetai h ellhnikh kybernhsh.

PALAIOLOGOS: Nai, thn apodexetai men, alla den exei katagrafei, den exei yparjei dhladh apo thn ellhnikh pleyra -an den kanw laqos- kamia piesh prokeimenoy na katagrafei oti h monh diafora einai h yfalokrhpida.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Sas lew kai pali: Ayth einai h diafora thn opoia apodexetai h Ellada, gi ayth th diafora syzhtame stis diereynhtikes synomilies.

DHMOSIOGRAFOS: Gia poio logo h kybernhsh afenos den apanthse stis xqesines dhlwseis toy k. Erntogan, poy eipe h apeilhse oti den ypografei kamia telwneiakh syndesh kai gia poio logo apofeygei monimws h kybernhsh, eite o Prwqypoyrgos, eite eseis, eite o ypoyrgos Ejwterikwn na xrhsimopoihsete ton oro, estw kai ypoqetika, toy beto;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Einai dyo diaforetika pragmata: To beto den einai aplws enas oros, einai mia politikh prajh, thn opoia exei dikaiwma kaqe xwra na egeirei, na balei sto trapezi twn syzhthsewn. Oson afora to prwto skelos ths erwthshs sas, o k. Erntogan, h toyrkikh kybernhsh dhlwse gia prwth fora epishmws sta Symperasmata toy Eyrwpaikoy Symboylioy oti ypoxreoytai na ypogracei thn telwneiakh enwsh, h opoia anaferetai se synolika deka xwres, an den me apata h mnhmh moy, ews thn hmeromhnia enarjhs twn diapragmateysewn. Ayth einai mia desmeysh, thn opoia exei analabei h Toyrkia. Einai enas oros o opoios tiqetai sta Symperasmata toy Eyrwpaikoy Symboylioy.

DHMOSIOGRAFOS: Ean den to ypogracei qa qesete beto;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Ean den to ypogracei den qa arxisei h syzhthsh gia thn entajh ths Toyrkias sthn E.E.

DHMOSIOGRAFOS: Dioti o k. Papadopoylos to leei kai to janaleei, to tonizei.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Mhn kanete to laqos na qewreite oti ayto einai ena zhthma poy afora mono thn Ellada kai thn Toyrkia. Ayto einai ena zhthma poy afora tis 25 xwres-melh kai thn Toyrkia. Ara, loipon einai arketa enarges se oloys -stoys 25 Eyrwpaioys etairoys kai sthn Toyrkia- oti h Toyrkia qa prepei na proxwrhsei sthn ypografh ths symbashs ews thn 3h Oktwbrioy, hmeromhnia enarjhs twn diapragmateysewn.

XIDIROGLOY: Entajei, afora tis 25 xwres alla afora perissotero emas, giati ta qemata ayta kai toy Kypriakoy emas mas kaine. Den jerw kata poso kaine toys Ollandoys

ROYSOPOYLOS: Kanete laqos, giati prwton h telwneiakh symbash mila gia deka xwres kai deyteron, afora th diadikasia leitoyrgias twn 25 xwrwn ths E.E. Den einai kaqe kratos melos, af eaytoy poy qa diekdikhsei kati sthn E.E. apenanti se mia Trith xwra poy qelei na ginei ypochfia. Qa to kanei men sto plaisio twn eqnikwn symferontwn toy, alla edw exoyme mia desmeysh apo toys kanones, toys oroys poy qetei h idia h E.E. ara kai oi 25 xwres.

DHMOSIOGRAFOS: O Erntogan epanelabe kai shmera oti mesa sto 2005 qa analhfqei prwtoboylia gia thn epilysh toy Kypriakoy, epidiwkontas profanws na apofygei thn anagnwrish ths Kypriakhs Dhmokratias mexri thn enarjh twn entajiakwn diapragmateysewn kai na anagnwrisei ena ektrwmatiko morfwma poy problepei to Sxedio Anan. H kybernhsh pws topoqeteite sto endexomeno analhchs prwtoboylias gia thn epilysh toy Kypriakoy stoys prwtoys mhnes toy 2005, opws lene;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Den exei allajei h qesh thn opoia gnwrizete. H epilysh toy Kypriakoy einai aithma, einai apaithsh oxi mono apenanti ston kypriako ellhnismo, alla apenanti sthn istoria. Kai se ayto h ellhnikh kybernhsh exei topoqethqei, dia toy Prwqypoyrgoy, me safhneia para polles fores.

TSIODRAS: H apofash twn Bryjellwn leei, toylaxiston me bash thn ermhneia ths nomikhs yphresies, gia diapragmateyseis anamesa sthn Toyrkia kai thn Commission se sxesh me to pws qa efarmostei h symfwnia ths Agkyras, poy afora to synolo twn melwn ths E.E. Mporeite na mas peite aytes oi diapragmateyseis ti aforoyn;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Eswterikoys kanonismoys ths E.E. kai thn thrhsh aytwn twn kanonismwn apo thn ypochfia pros entajh xwra. Dieykrinisthke apo thn nomikh yphresia, katopin parembasews toy Prwqypoyrgoy ekei, sto Symboylio kai oxi aplws dieykrinisthke proforikws, alla doqhke keimeno, to opoio sas moirasthke.

TSIODRAS: Ayto den mporei na anairesei th symfwnia gia ypografh prin apo thn 3h Oktwbrioy, ean yparjoyn nomikes periplokes stis diapragmateyseis anamesa sthn Toyrkia kai thn E.E.;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Oxi bebaia. Milame gia eswterikoys kanonismoys.

TSIODRAS: Se sxesh me to Kypriako, milame gia lysh h opoia basizetai sto sxedio Anan, den mporei na einai to sxedio Anan, to opoio exei aporrifqei. Mporeite na mas peite h ellhnikh kai h kypriakh kybernhsh poies tropopoihseis zhtoyn sto sxedio Anan kai pws blepoyn th nea prwtoboylia gia to Kypriako;

ROYSOPOYLOS: H ellhnikh kai h kypriakh kybernhsh, opws jerete, briskontai se synexh synergasia. Efoson dhmioyrghqoyn oi proypoqeseis tis opoies qa qelame gia dikaih, entimh lysh toy kypriakoy problhmatos, bebaiws kai qa dwsoyme ton kalytero mas eayto gia na breqei ayth h lysh. Twra, na kanw analysh toy sxedioy Anan shmeio me shmeio@

TSIODRAS: Oxi, qa hqela omws ena kombiko shmeio gia mas se sxesh me to sxedio Anan h to kainoyrgio sxedio.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Peran aytoy poy anafera, ws dikaih, entimh lysh, den mporw na sas dwsw perissotera stoixeia.

TSIODRAS: Dhladh, qa einai kapoies eggyhseis asfaleias; Ti qa einai; Ti shmainei ``dikaih lysh'';

ROYSOPOYLOS: H ennoia toy dikaioy einai mia ennoia h opoia kat` alloys mporei na exei eyrythta, kata th dikh mas gnwmh apanta sto istoriko aithma, opoy o eisboleas den einai aytos poy qa dikaiwqei gia thn eisbolh, opoy o eisboleas kai aytos poy katexei ena kommati ths Kyproy, den einai aytos o opoios qa mporei na diathrei ``dikaiwmata'' poy katekthse me ayth toy thn prajh.

TSIODRAS: Dhladh, ston OHE pame kai leme oti ``qeloyme mia dikaih lysh''. Den proteinoyme sygkekrimena pragmata;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Qa htan laqos na dhmioyrghqei h entypwsh oti pame kai leme kati poly geniko.

TSIODRAS: Egw gi ayto rwtw gia na dw poio einai to sygkekrimeno.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Malista. Qa sas promhqeysw me ola ekeina ta sygkekrimena ta opoia exoyn anaferqei kata kairoys gia to Kypriako, graptws, oytws wste na ta exete kai na toys kanete mia poly kalh meleth.

TSIODRAS: Den qelw na epimeinw allo, qa mporoysame na synexisoyme th syzhthsh, alla@ Se sxesh me thn yfalokrhpida, h syzhthsh poy ginetai edw kai dyo xronia, exei meinei mono sthn yfalokrhpida kai den perilambanei thn aigialitida zwnh kai ton enaerio xwro;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Thn yfalokrhpida.

TSIODRAS: Den perilambanei ta ypoloipa;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Sas apanthsa.

TSIODRAS: Qelw na moy peite oti den perilambanei ta ypoloipa.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Sas apanthsa: Syzhtame gia thn yfalokrhpida.

TSIODRAS: Se sxesh me th mikrh kai eyelikth kybernhsh, dwsate mia diaforetikh ermhneia apo ayth poy eixe dwsei proeklogika o Prwqypoyrgos kai qelw na katalabw ti isxyei telika. Eipate oti h shmerinh kybernhsh leitoyrgei eyelikta. Ara, loipon, o Prwqypoyrgos ennooyse oti qa exoyme to shmerino sxhma, alla qa leitoyrgei me diaforetiko tropo;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Exei doqei hdh apanthsh, den prokeitai na epanelqw.

TSIODRAS: Ma gia thn apanthsh poy doqhke rwtaw.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Lew, exei doqei hdh apanthsh, prin apo 15@ 20@ sthn aiqoysa, den prokeitai na epanelqw.

SARANTAKOS: Me dedomeno oti shmera einai to teleytaio briefing gia th xronia ayth, hqela na sas rwthsw ean exete kanei ton apologismo toy dikoy sas ergoy, kai ean qewreite oti toys mhnes poy perasan mexri shmera, exoyn ginei kapoia epikoinwniaka laqh sthn kybernhsh, thn epikoinwniakh politikh ths opoias exete eseis. Kai ean anagnwrizete oti exoyn ginei kapoia laqh se epipedo proswpwn, qa hqela na mas peite poia einai ayta.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Opws gnwrizete, otan synebh laqos eixa thn parrhsia na to pw edw, sthn aiqoysa ayth. Apo ekei kai pera, gnwrizete oti krinomaste prwta ap` ola, ws ypoyrgoi, apo ton Prwqypoyrgo kai amesws meta apo ton ellhniko lao sto synolo, ws kybernhsh.

SIDERHS: Epeidh oi xwres ths E.E. me tis prwhn apoikies toys exoyn kapoia emporikh sxesh idiaiterothtas, qa mporoyse mia anwnymh etaireia sto ellhniko xrhmatisthrio na parei metoxes enos thleoptikoy staqmoy kai qa mporoysate eseis na kataferete na onomastikopoihsete toys metoxoys ayths ths etaireias apo tis Seyxelles h to Maroko;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Exw thn entypwsh oti to ellhniko xrhmatisthrio problepei hdh thn onomastikopoihsh twn metoxwn se MME. Ara, h erwthsh sas exei apanthqei sthn prajh, edw kai kapoia xronia.

KOYIN: Mporeite na moy ejhghsete, den jerw ean to exw katalabei kala, mia etaireia ths E.E. poy asxoleitai me dhmosies symbaseis sthn Ellada kai einai metoxos se MME kapoy sthn E.E. den exei to dikaiwma na zhthsei dhmosies symbaseis sthn Ellada. Swsta; Gia paradeigma, as poyme h ``Ntesw''.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Ean exei MME, metoxikh symmetoxh, sthn Ellada.

KOYIN: Oxi, sthn E.E. Aytos o nomos isxyei mono gia thn Ellada;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Isxyei mono gia thn Ellada. Bebaiws. Oi nomoi ths Elladas einai gia thn Ellada.

Sas eyxaristw.

Sas eyxomai Kalh Xronia.

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