Greek Government Press Briefing, 04-12-07

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From: The Hellenic Ministry of Press & Mass Media <http://www.minpress.gr/>

Aqhna, 7 Dekembrioy 2004

Xairete.

O Prwqypoyrgos, se ligotero apo dyo wres, anaxwrei gia th Rwsia, opoy qa pragmatopoihsei epishmh episkech, proskeklhmenos toy Proedroy Poytin, me ton opoio qa synanthqei thn Pempth. To programma ths episkechs exei hdh dhmosiopoihqei.

Parakalw, tis erwthseis sas.

SOYGLERHS: Kyrie Ypoyrge, akoysa to boyleyth k. Benizelo, sto radiofwniko staqmo Flash, na leei oti to nomosxedio gia to basiko metoxo einai asafes kai praktika anefarmosto. Ston idio staqmo kai o Proedros toy SEB k. Kyriakopoylos eipe oti to nomosxedio gia to basiko metoxo dhmioyrgei problhma sthn epixeirhmatikh drasthriothta sth xwra mas. Qa hqela to sxolio sas.

ROYSOPOYLOS: H biasynh toy k. Benizeloy na milhsei kai malista xrhsimopoiwntas ekfraseis poy moy metaferete, ean tis xrhsimopoihse, einai emfanhs, opws einai profanhs kai h amhxania toy PASOK. To PASOK prepei na apanthsei epi ths oysias: Ean symfwnei me tis ryqmiseis h oxi. @H ean exei na kanei kapoies alles kalyteres protaseis. Ekeino poy eidame xqes sth dhlwsh poy ejedoqh apo to Grafeio Typoy toy PASOK, einai asafeis parathrhseis. Einai protaseis oi opoies apexoyn ths pragmatikothtas. Einai apoceis, oi opoies exoyn akoystei, kata kairoys, apo aytoys poy qigontai apo to nomosxedio. Perimenoyme apo to PASOK thn oloklhrwmenh topoqethsh, epi ths oysias.

BLAXOS: Kyrie Ekproswpe, mias kai eiste enas apo toys anqrwpoys poy exete syntajei to nomosxedio gia to basiko metoxo, ti apantate se ayto poy lene oti pws einai dynato na empodizete toys syggeneis twn epixeirhmatiwn na exoyn ergasies sto dhmosio tomea, enw thn idia wra mporoyn syggeneis prwtoy, deyteroy kai tritoy baqmoy ypoyrgwn kai boyleytwn, xrhsimopoiwntas to meson, opws gnwrizoyme, ths pieshs twn politikwn proswpwn stis doyleies poy pairnoyn sto Dhmosio; Pws mporei na syndeqei to ena me to allo;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Einai asafhs h erwthsh sas, opws oi parathrhseis toy PASOK. Yparxei, pantws, ``ena bibliaraki'', to opoio legetai ``Syntagma ths Ellados'' kai chfisthke apo th Boylh twn Ellhnwn. Me bash to Syntagma kai to sygkekrimeno arqro, h kybernhsh ofeilei na proxwrhsei se efarmostiko nomo toy Syntagmatos. O prohgoymenos nomos eixe kataggelqei apo th Nea Dhmokratia, ws enas nomos poy anoige paraqyra sth diaplokh. Yphrje anagkh, loipon, meta apo pollh syzhthsh, meta apo skeceis poy eixan ginei apo tote poy hmastan sthn antipoliteysh, na erqei enas nomos, o opoios qa bazei telos sta ``paraqyra'' ayta. Qa ta kleinei. Enas nomos, o opoios qa einai symfwnos me to gramma kai to pneyma toy Syntagmatos.

BLAXOS: Kleinei ta ``paraqyra'' twn epixeirhmatiwn kai afhnei ta ``paraqyra'' twn syggenwn twn boyleytwn kai twn ypoyrgwn; Dhladh, apo qema hqikhs tajews einai swsto ayto;

ROYSOPOYLOS: To Syntagma ofeiloyn na to efarmozoyn oloi oi Ellhnes. Ean exete allh apoch gia to Syntagma, mporeite na thn kataqesete kai bebaiws, ean eisakoysteite apo kapoia kybernhsh, otan qa yparxei anaqewrhtikh Boylh, na allajei.

BLAXOS: Ma eseis jexwrisate toys Ellhnes se dyo, se epixeirhmaties twn opoiwn oi syggeneis apagoreyetai na exoyn emplokh sto Dhmosio, enw mporoyn oi ypoyrgoi kai oi politikoi na askoyn thn epirroh toys kai na pairnoyn doyleies sto Dhmosio.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Qa sas apanthsw otan kanete kapoia sygkekrimenh kataggelia. Sas epanalambanw, oti kalo einai, aytoi poy lene ayto poy moy metaferete, ean to lene, na diabasoyn to ellhniko Syntagma.

BLAXOS: Dhladh gia thn kybernhsh den yparxei qema;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Epi aoristoy kataggelias thn opoia kanete, oxi.

BLAXOS: Ma, den yparxei qema kataggelias. Einai qema hqikhs tajews. Pws einai dynaton oi syggeneis ypoyrgwn kai boyleytwn na mporoyn na pairnoyn doyleies sto Dhmosio, askwntas thn politikh piesh poy exoyn sta xeria toys, etsi kai alliws kai den mporoyn se mia eleyqerh oikonomia, ektos kai an mas peite oti den exoyme eleyqerh oikonomia, oi epixeirhmaties kai oi syggeneis toys na mhn mporoyn na askhsoyn ayth th drasthriothta. Den exoyme eleyqerh oikonomia;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Epanalambanw oti yparxei to Syntagma poy ofeiloyme na efarmozoyme oloi. Oi boyleytes -ta politika proswpa en genei- ypokeintai se elegxo ``poqen esxes''. O elegxos toy ``poqen esxes'' ginetai apo organo ths Boylhs. Tyxon kataggelies gia xrhmatismoys einai bebaio oti qa apasxolhsoyn ayth thn kybernhsh, opws den apasxolhsan -einai bebaio- thn prohgoymenh kybernhsh. An, loipon, yparxei otidhpote sygkekrimeno, na eiste bebaios oti ayth h kybernhsh den prokeitai na kryftei pisw apo to daxtylo ths. Sth genikh parathrhsh poy kanate, apanthsa prohgoymenws me to triptyxo: Syntagma, nomoi, ``poqen esxes''.

SIDERHS: Eipate oti htan emfanhs h biasynh kai h amhxania toy k. Benizeloy. Qa legate to idio kai gia ton k. Kyriakopoylo, giati milhse ston idio xrono;

ROYSOPOYLOS: O k. Kyriakopoylos den einai politiko proswpo wste na ton sxoliasw. Exei tis apoceis toy, tis opoies kai ekfrazei dhmosiws. Den protiqemai na kanw kanena sxolio.

SIDERHS: Pws krinete tis apoceis toy;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Sas eipa oti den protiqemai na kanw kanena sxolio, oson afora stis apoceis toy k. Kyriakopoyloy.

SIDERHS: Giati;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Giati, tygxanei na eimai egw Kybernhtikos Ekproswpos. Ean hsastan eseis, qa mporoysate na kanete.

SIDERHS: Aplws sas rwthsa na moy ejhghsete giati den sxoliazete@

ROYSOPOYLOS: Den prokeitai na sas ejhghsw giati den sxoliazw.

SIDERHS: Einai ekproswpos twn biomhxanwn.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Oi apoceis toy Proedroy toy SEB, einai apoceis enos anqrwpoy, o opoios einai poliths ths xwras kai katexei sygkekrimenh qesh sto organo to opoio ton ejeleje. Den exw kamia proqesh na sxoliasw aytes tis apoceis. Lew, omws, oti akoysthkan aytes tis hmeres -kai diabasa kai sthn anakoinwsh toy PASOK- apoceis poy exoyn akoystei kai apo alloys xwroys symferontwn poy qigontai me ayton ton nomo.

XONDROS: H kybernhsh paroysiase me mia safh logikh ena nomosxedio poy kleine ``paraqyra'', opws lete eseis. To erwthma einai: Ean se metagenestero xrono ena nomosxedio to politiko xrhma exei thn proqesh na epibalei kapoioys periorismoys sthn analhch dhmosiwn ergwn apo syggeneis ypoyrgwn kai boyleytwn gia na mporesei na oloklhrwqei to pazl, ayto poy lete ``maxh enantia sthn diaplokh''. Ayto einai to erwthma dioti ginetai kritikh se o,ti afora to politiko xrhma. H diaplokh einai san to erwta, qelei dyo.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Opws gnwrizete, gia to politiko xrhma den exei ginei aplws syzhthsh, alla exoyn yparjei sto parelqon kai nomoqethmata. Ayta anaferontai, toso sto tropo xrhmatodothshs twn kommatwn, oso kai sta ejoda sta opoia dynantai na kanoyn oi politikoi kata th diarkeia ths proeklogikhs periodoy. Epishs, anaferontai kai sthn ypoxrewsh toys na kataqetoyn ``poqen esxes'', to opoio elegxetai.

XONDROS: Milame gia kati sygkekrimeno.

ROYSOPOYLOS: An syzhtoyse kapoios, gia paradeigma, prin apo deka xronia gia ton basiko metoxo, endexomenws na mhn xreiazotan na probei se tetoies ryqmiseis. H anagkh ths zwhs, h praktikh empeiria, to Syntagma poy chfisthke wste na kalycei aytes tis anagkes, odhghse kai ston efarmostiko nomo toy PASOK -gia ton opoio emeis ws antipoliteysh topoqethqhkame - kai ston diko mas efarmostiko nomo, poy qewroyme oti kleinei ta paraqyra ths diaplokhs. H zwh, loipon, mporei na dhmioyrghsei tetoioy eidoys anagkes, opws aytes poy anaferate. Kaneis den mporei na to apokleisei.

XONDROS: Tis hmeres poy prohghqhkan ths kataqeshs h ths paroysiashs twn diatajewn toy nomosxedioy yphrjan synanthseis toy Prwqypoyrgoy me epixeirhmaties, ektos Majimoy kai ean nai giati den anakoinwqhkan; Anaferomai kai se ena sxolio poy dhmosieyetai sth shmerinh ``Eleyqerotypia'', poy leei oti yphrjan synanthseis toy Prwqypoyrgoy me epixeirhmaties entos toy Megaroy Majimoy kai malista me epixeirhmaties sygkekrimenwn politikwn protimhsewn, kai yphrjan syzhthseis gia to qema toy basikoy metoxoy. Ean ontws yphrjan aytes kai ean yphrjan giati den anakoinwqhkan.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Ean o ypainigmos einai oti h kybernhsh ayth symbibazetai me kapoioys epixeirhmaties, fanhke kaqara apo to xqesino nomoqethma, oti den symbibazetai me kanenan.

XONDROS: Yphrjan synanthseis;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Synanthseis sto Prwqypoyrgiko Grafeio me ton Prwqypoyrgo, oi opoies na anakoinwqhkan, oxi. Oson afora se peraiterw synanthseis koinwnikoy periexomenoy, ean eginan h oxi, o Prwqypoyrgos einai ypo ta ommata ths dhmosiothtas kai olwn sas. Gnwrizete, loipon, ean kai pote synanthqhke me kapoioys anqrwpoys.

PALAIOLOGOS: Hqela na rwthsw to ejhs se sxesh panta me ton basiko metoxo: Ean xqes sthn Kybernhtikh Epitroph, kat` arxhn, diatypwqhkan enstaseis h epifylajeis apo kapoioys ypoyrgoys ths kybernhshs, se sxesh me to kata poso mporei na enarmonistei ayto to nomosxedio me to Koinotiko Plaisio, thn eyrwpaikh nomoqesia kai eidikotera sto kata poso mporei na enarmonistei sthn ptyxh poy afora tis ejwxwries etaireies.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Kathgorhmatika sas apantw: Oxi. Oyte enstaseis, oyte epifylajeis diatypwqhkan. Kapoioi oi opoioi prospaqoyn na deijoyn oti yparxei dhqen dixognwmia sthn kybernhsh, mallon exoyn apotyxei. Exete parakoloyqhsei kai alles kybernhtikes epitropes kai gnwrizete oti aytes diarkoysan minimoym 2 h 2.30 wres. Xqes, egine h pio syntomh xronika Kybernhtikh Epitroph. Pisteyete oti ena tetoio nomoqethma den qa eixe ginei antikeimeno syzhthsewn kai epejergasias metajy twn synarmodiwn ypoyrgwn kai en genei twn ypoyrgwn otan malista to ypografoyn oloi;

PALAIOLOGOS: Ayto aforoyse to xqesino gia thn Kybernhtikh Epitroph. Egw qa pw to ejhs: Sto parelqon, stis synanthseis poy endexomenws eixan oi ypoyrgoi metajy toys kai eseis me toys synadelfoys sas, ean yphrjan enstaseis, ean diatypwqhkan enstaseis ki egw na rwthsw ki eyqews, eite apo ton k. Soyflia gia ton opoio akoysthke xqes, toylaxiston se ola ta dhmosiografika grafeia, eite apo kapoio allo melos ths kybernhshs h kai akomh, pws krinete kai th stash toy koinotikoy Epitropoy k. Dhma, o opoios ontws exei ekfrastei epifylaktika se o,ti afora to qema toy basikoy metoxoy.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Kat` arxas, o k. Dhmas den ekfrasthke epifylaktika gia ton basiko metoxo, giati den eixe doqei sth dhmosiothta to nomosxedio otan egine h synenteyjh sthn opoia profanws anafereste. Deyteron, parakalw mhn ypotimate kanenan apo toys ypoyrgoys. Oydeis ek twn ypoyrgwn qa ypegrafe to nomosxedio ean den to pisteye.

MELETHS: Epeidh systhsate na diabasoyme ayto to bibliaraki me to Syntagma ths Ellados, qelw na rwthsw ean to diko sas antigrafo periexei kai th selida, h opoia anaferetai sthn eleyqerh anaptyjh ths proswpikothtas, basikh kai qemeliwdhs diatajh toy Syntagmatos, dioti opws mas eipate prin oysiastika ayth h eleyqeria akyrwnetai ths anaptyjhs ths proswpikothtas ths epixeirhmatikothtas toy kaqe Ellhna polith me to nomo poy paroysiasate xqes.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Mporeite na moy diabasete to apospasma sto opoio anafereste;

MELETHS: Den to exw mazi moy, mporw na sas to steilw omws to apogeyma na to melethsete.

ROYSOPOYLOS: H eleyqerh anaptyjh ths proswpikothtas blepete na blaptetai kapoy -etsi opws thn anaferete eseis- sto nomosxedio gia ton basiko metoxo;

MELETHS: Ma, nomizw oti ejaireite me to nomo sas kapoioys Ellhnes polites apo to na exoyn epixeirhmatikh h alloy typoy drasthriothta, ean logw ths ejarthshs poy exei o aderfos toys h o syggenhs toys h o gampros toys me doyleies me to ellhniko Dhmosio. Den einai ayto mia ejairesh apo mia basikh syntagmatikh eleyqeria;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Qa hqela na sas ypenqymisw oti to Syntagma einai ekeino to opoio qetei ton oro twn ``syggenwn''. Malista to Syntagma den mila se kamia periptwsh gia baqmo syggeneias kai kalei to nomoqeth na orisei toys baqmoys syggeneias. Eyqys ej arxhs, loipon, sto Syntagma orizetai ws proswpo poy einai parenqeto, ws proswpo poy dynatai na xrhsimopoihqei ws parenqeto, o syggenhs kai o syggenikos desmos. Ara, loipon, qa prepei na aitiasete -ean diafwneite se ayto- to Syntagma kai oxi to nomo poy efarmozei to Syntagma.

MELETHS: Prokeitai gi ayth poy sas anaferw egw omws. Prokeitai gia basikh kai qemeliwdh diatajh toy Syntagmatos. To exw melethsei poly kala ayto.

ROYSOPOYLOS: To antilambanomai ayto poy lete, alla peite moy poy blaptetai h proswpikothta kapoioy;

MELETHS: To na stereite kapoion Ellhna polith apo to anaptyjei drasthriothta eite epaggelmatikh, eite alloy typoy.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Ma, h drasthriothta se kaqe tomea ypokeitai kai ayth se kanones. Profanws o syntagmatikos nomoqeths qewrhse poly shmantiko to na asxolhqei me to qema toy basikoy metoxoy, wste den to efere se enan nomo, alla to perielabe sto idio to Syntagma. Dhladh, o syntagmatikos nomoqeths milhse gia tis sxeseis metajy MME kai etaireiwn analhchs dhmosiwn symbasewn sto Syntagma. Den eipe, as erqei enas nomos kai opws nomizei mia kybernhsh as orioqethsei aytes tis sxeseis.

BLAXOS: Moy arese para poly prohgoymenws poy qymhqhkate th dhmosiografikh sas idiothta. Qa hqela na moy peite ean ws dhmosiografos eixate dexqei pieseis apo epixeirhmaties stoys opoioys ergazosaste, sta kanalia h stis efhmerides, gia na kanete kati poy den qelate, prokeimenoy na ejyphrethsete mian allh epixeirhmatikh drasthriothta toys, ektos apo thn alhqeia kai thn enhmerwsh toy ellhnikoy laoy.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Par` oti den antilambanomai to skeptiko poy krybetai pisw apo ayth thn erwthsh -fantazomai qa yparxei skeptiko- apantw: Oxi. Opws leitoyrghsa, epi 20 xronia, ws dhmosiografos me hsyxh th syneidhsh moy, etsi leitoyrgw kai twra.

BLAXOS: Ara, poy einai h diaplokh;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Ti ennoeite;

BLAXOS: Ara, poy einai h diaplokh poy lete oti orismenoi xrhsimopoioyn ta MME gia na ejyphrethsoyn alla symferonta;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Pali den to katalaba. Mporeite na to kanete pio safes; To gegonos oti den moy askhqhke piesh h ean moy askhqhke piesh den ypekyca, shmainei oti den yparxei diaplokh sthn Ellada;

BLAXOS: Askhqhke se alloys synadelfoys sas, dhladh; Se alloys dhmosiografoys;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Den mporw na to gnwrizw. Rwthste toys synadelfoys sas, egw den eimai sth dhmosiografia pia.

FOYRLHS: Qewreite logiko enas dieyqynths MME akomh ki an einai se ena dieyqyntiko posto, to opoio omws den xarazei politikh mesoy de facto dedomenoy toy antikeimenoy toy, oti prepei aparaithta na perilhfqei se mia tetoia ryqmish, ean ena syggeniko toy proswpo symbainei na askei epixeirhmatikh drasthriothta poy sxetizetai me to dhmosio; Gia paradeigma an einai kapoios, dieyqyntiko stelexos se efhmerida h thleoptiko staqmo poy asxoleitai me texnika zhthmata;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Qa sas pw kai pali oti to Syntagma anaferetai sto sygkekrimeno arqro gia ta dieyqyntika stelexh. O prohgoymenos nomos eixe afhsei toso anoikto to periexomeno ths ennoias ``dieyqyntiko stelexos'', wste mporoyse kaneis na ennohsei akoma kai poly xamhlotero proswpiko, se ena MME h se mia etaireia analhchs dhmosiwn symbasewn, ws dieyqyntiko stelexos.

FOYRLHS: Mporoyse alla eseis eipate oti o nomoqeths to ermhneyse (den akoygetai)

ROYSOPOYLOS: Emeis orizoyme poly sygkekrimena, milwntas gia melh toy dioikhtikoy symboylioy, genikoys dieyqyntes kai dieyqyntes. Epanalambanw oti to Syntagma einai odhgos gi` ayth th diatajh.

XONDROS: Xqes paroysiasate tis basikes arxes enos nomosxedioy. Ypoqetw oti parakoloyqeite kai thn ypodoxh toy, tis antidraseis genikotera. Poia einai h aisqhsh sas gia thn ypodoxh;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Me poia ap` oles tis aisqhseis na milhsw;

XONDROS: Thn politikh. Parakoloyqeite tis antidraseis kai pws egine apodekto apo ta MME, toys diaforoys foreis to nomosxedio gia to opoio eiste synarmodios. Ti mhnymata apokomisate;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Einai bebaion oti enoxlei.

BLAXOS: Oxi mono. Yparxoyn ki alloi poy panhgyrizoyn.

XONDROS: Ayto mono exete dei; Mia enoxlhsh;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Einai bebaion oti enoxlei. Allwste, oti prospaqei na balei tajh se ena topio poy htan anarxo kai domhmeno me tetoio tropo wste na ejyphretei symferonta, einai bebaio oti qa enoxlhsei.

XONDROS: Qetika mhnymata den exete;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Exoyme para polla qetika mhnymata apo ton ellhniko lao.

SOYGLERHS: O k. Meimarakhs shmera se dhlwseis toy eipe oti eimaste anoixtoi se protaseis sto kainoyrio nomosxedio.. Symfwneite; Kai se poioys apeyqynotan o k. Meimarakhs;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Eipa kai prin oti ean yparxei kapoia protash h opoia qa antimetwpizei kalytera mia ryqmish apo aytes poy exoyme sto sxedio nomoy, einai dekth me xara. Se tetoioy eidoys zhthmata, h N.D. apedeije sto prosfato parelqon ws kybernhsh oti einai dektikh kai akoyei an yparxoyn kalyteres protaseis.

MELETHS: Yphrjan tetoies protaseis sth diarkeia ths diamorfwshs toy sxedioy apo foreis h apo kapoioys alloys paragontes;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Bebaiws. Exw anaferei s` ayth thn aiqoysa oti eixa dextei episkech ths Enwsews Idiokthtwn Thleoptikwn Staqmwn h opoia eixe endiaferon. Moy eixan apostalei shmeiwmata apo antistoixoys foreis. Wstoso, qelw na sas qymisw, oti h N.D. edw kai dyo xronia, ws komma ths antipoliteyshs, eixe kataqesei tis basikes ths protaseis apo tis opoies den apesth sto sxedio nomoy to opoio tote katachfise to PASOK.

KAMPOYRIDOY: Sxetika me to an exei enoxlhsei to sygkekrimeno nomosxedio qa hqela na moy peite poia qa einai ta prwta apotelesmata apo th stigmh poy qa efarmostei;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Kaqe etaireia qa prepei na symmorfwqei me to gramma kai to pneyma toy nomoy. Ti ennoeite otan lete apotelesmata, den gnwrizw. Emeis eimaste bebaioi oti me ayto to nomo qa kleisoyme ta ``paraqyra'' poy eixe afhsei anoikta o prohgoymenos nomos toy PASOK.

FOYRLHS: Dieykrinistika, giati sto keimeno poy dianemhqhke xqes sto arqro 2, den anaferetai, opws anaferqhkate edw se Dieyqyntes kai Genikoys Dieyqyntes.

ROYSOPOYLOS: Eipa kai xqes oti ayto poy prospaqhsa na sas dwsw sto keimeno me toys pinakes kai ta basika stoixeia, htan mia proseggish oso to dynaton pio dhmosiografikh kai katanohth. Dioti otan qa diabasete to sxedio nomoy, qa deite oti einai ena periploko nomiko keimeno. Prospaqhsa na to kanw pio katanohto kai dieykrinisa apo th stigmh poy moirasthkan ayta ta keimena, xqes sto Zappeio, oti den einai h akribhs diatypwsh toy nomoy alla einai to pneyma toy nomoy to opoio qa sas bohqhsei na kanete th doyleia sas.

FOYRLHS: Epishs sto keimeno lete oti osoys askoyn ektelestikes armodiothtes kai synexizete, poy oysiastikws ephreazoyn toys skopoys ths epixeirhshs. Ayto den epitrepei ypokeimenikes ermhneies apo to ESR h opoiodhpote allo; Giati to balate;

ROYSOPOYLOS: Sto nomiko dikaio mas yparxei safhs prosdiorismos toy ti shmainei na askei kapoios ektelestikes armodiothtes. Einai proedros, dieyqynwn symboylos, melh dioikhtikoy symboylioy. Einai dhladh safws prosdiorismena sto dikaio mas ayta ta opoia anaferontai, ypo ton titlo ``ektelestikes armodiothtes''.

Eyxaristw poly.

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