Greek Government Press Briefing, 01-11-22

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From: The Hellenic Ministry of Press & Mass Media <http://www.minpress.gr/>

YPOYRGEIO TYPOY & MESWN MAZIKHS ENHMERWSHS

Aqhna, 22 Noembrioy 2001

JENOY TYPOY APO TON YPOYRGO TYPOY & MESWN MAZIKHS ENHMERWSHS

KAI KYBERNHTIKO EKPROSWPO XRHSTO PRWTOPAPA

Geia sas.

O Prwqypoyrgos synanthqhke, prin apo ligo, me ton ypoyrgo Eswterikwn Kwsta Skandalidh. Exei hdh ekdoqei anakoinwsh apo to Grafeio toy Prwqypoyrgoy, h opoia einai sth diaqesh sas, gia to antikeimeno ths synanthshs.

Qa hqela na kanw ena sxolio gia tis xqesines dhlwseis toso toy arxhgoy ths ajiwmatikhs antipoliteyshs kai Proedroy ths Neas Dhmokratias k. Kwsta Karamanlh, oso kai stelexwn toy kommatos, opws toy k. Alogoskoyfh kai allwn.

Qa diabasw ena apospasma apo dyo anakoinwseis gia thn oikonomikh politikh: "Me thn oikonomikh ths politikh h kybernhsh qigei oles tis koinwnikes omades. Kyriws, ta qymata ths einai oi misqwtoi, oi syntajioyxoi kai oi agrotes". Aytes einai oi dhlwseis toy k. Karamanlh gia ton Proypologismo toy 2000. "Gia mia akomh fora ta barh qa pesoyn stoys wmoys twn misqwtwn, twn syntajioyxwn, twn mikromesaiwn kai twn agrotwn". Dhlwseis toy k. Karamanlh gia ton Proypologismo toy 2001. Akribws ta idia. Ta idia kai ta idia. Qa elega oti edw tairiazei h rhsh "aporia caltoy, bhj". Otan den exoyn tipota allo na poyn, otan den mporoyn na arqrwsoyn ypeyqyno logo tote, opws kanei o k. Karamanlhs, xrhsimopoioyn asafeies, genikologies, epipolaiothtes kai laikismo.

Bebaiws, edw tiqetai ena zhthma: An epi pente xronia katartizoyme plasmatikoys Proypologismoys, tote h eikona ths xwras den qa htan ayth poy einai. H xwra den qa eixe entaxqei sthn ONE. Parola ayta, edw kai pente xronia, h N.D. ayta leei ta idia.

Qeloyme na qymisoyme sth N.D. tis ektimhseis olwn twn dieqnwn organismwn: Toy OOSA, toy DNT, ths E.E., telika thn aisqhsh toy idioy toy ellhnikoy laoy. Ola ayta den yparxoyn; Monon ekeinoi gnwrizoyn; Oloi oi alloi miloyn gia pragmatikes synqhkes anaptyjhs sthn Ellada. Miloyn gia mia ygih oikonomia poy proxwrei me dynamismo. Mono sth N.D. exoyn allh apoch. Amfisbhtoyn thn pragmatikothta, opws kapote amfisbhtoysan thn entajh ths xwras mas sthn ONE kai miloysan gia plasmatikoys Proypologismoys. Pisteyw oti sto shmeio ayto gia ton k. Karamanlh kai th N.D. poy diafwnoyn me toys dieqneis organismoys, thn E.E., thn pragmatikothta kai to lao, tairiazei ayto poy eipe o Mprext pws "otan den anagnwrizoyn to laqos toys prospaqoyn na allajoyn thn pragmatikothta kai to lao". Kai epeidh ayta den allazoyn, me thn politikh poy akoloyqoyn, qa apomonwqoyn kai gia mia akomh fora qa exoyn thn tyxh poy eixan kai stis prohgoymenes eklogikes anametrhseis.

Lypamai, giati gia mia akomh fora h N.D. den tolmhse na mas pei thn politikh ths. Den tolmhse na probalei ena diaforetiko -apo to diko mas, gia to opoio mas kathgorei- sygkekrimeno kai realistiko programma politikhs.

Pisteyw oti ayto einai poy thn katadikazei na menei monimws sthn antipoliteysh.

Akoyw tis erwthseis sas.

STAMATOPOYLOS: Kyrie Ypoyrge, milhsate gia to DNT. Eidate th xqesinh ekqesh toy, ti akribws anaferei, oti qa einai 3% kai oxi 4%, opws leei h Kybernhsh, gia thn anaptyjh; Ayto deixnei oti o Proypologismos einai plasmatikos.

PRWTOPAPAS: Gnwrizete oti alloi dieqneis organismoi -ki emeis eixame to qarros na dwsoyme thn ekqesh, thn hmera ths kataqeshs toy Proypologismoy- miloyn gia anaptyjh panw apo 4%. Emeis den yioqethsame aytes tis ektimhseis, giati den qeloyme na eimaste yperaisiodojoi. Qeloyme na eimaste realistes. Gi ayto to logo milame gia anaptyjh 3,8%, poy apotelei to meso oro twn allwn ektimhsewn. Kai, bebaiws, qa petyxoyme ayto to stoxo, opws petyxame na exoyme ayth th stigmh toys ychloteroys ryqmoys anaptyjhs sthn E.E., otan oles oi alles xwres -kai fernw paradeigma th Germania- epesan, kata poly, ejw apo tis ektimhseis toys. Sthn Ellada oi ryqmoi anaptyjhs "trexoyn" ayth th stigmh me 4%. Ayto einai pragmatikothta, den einai plasmatiko. Mono h N.D. to blepei plasmatiko, giati den blepei thn alhqeia. Giati pisteyei pws h alhqeia einai ayto poy nomizei ayth. Ta pragmata, omws, den einai etsi. Me epipolaiothtes kai laikismoys den antimetwpizetai h ejelijh sthn oikonomia. Den kaneis etsi politikh.

STAMATOPOYLOS: To DNT ti leei; Leei 3%. Einai laqos;

PRWTOPAPAS: Sas eipa oti yparxoyn polles ektimhseis. Emeis kaname mia synthrhtikh ektimhsh. Omws, h N.D., se kaqe periptwsh, den milaei gi ayto. Leei oti den yparxei anaptyjh sthn Ellada. Diabaste kala thn anakoinwsh, k. Stamatopoyle, prin rwthsete.

STAMATOPOYLOS: Den rwtaw gia th N.D., rwtaw gia to DNT. Qa moy apanthsete;

PRWTOPAPAS: Hdh, sas apanthsa.

STAMATOPOYLOS: Den moy apantate. Den mporeite na moy apanthsete.

PRWTOPAPAS: Gnwmh sas. Kyrie Stamatopoyle, qa sas systhna -gia logoys deontologias kai kalwn sxesewn metajy mas- na apofeygete ta sxolia, opws egw den sxoliazw tis erwthseis sas.

STAMATOPOYLOS: Egw sas rwtaw@

PRWTOPAPAS: Parakalw, k. Stamatopoyle, na mh me diakoptete. Apanthsa, opws pisteyw, me ton kalytero tropo. Apo ekei kai pera, mporei h apanthsh moy na mh sas ikanopoihse. Exete to dikaiwma na diapistwsete oti den sas ikanopoiei, exete to dikaiwma na kanete to sxolio sas sto Meso enhmerwshs sto opoio ergazeste. Kaneis den sas sterei to dikaiwma ayto, opws kaneis den mporei na moy sterei to dikaiwma na lew ayto poy pisteyw.

STAMATOPOYLOS: O prohgoymenos ypoyrgos Typoy, opws kai o prohgoymenos ypoyrgos Oikonomias, eixan pei oti den qa epiblhqoyn alles ayjhseis. Twra, anakoinwqhkan ayjhseis se pota, tsigara kai diafora alla proionta. H nea forologia giati mphke;

PRWTOPAPAS: Gnwrizete kala oti eipame pws den epiballoyme neoys foroys. Den exoyme eisagei kanena neo foro se ayto ton Proypologismo. Eimaste apolyta synepeis se ayto poy eipame.

PAPADOPOYLOS: Ontws ayta poy lete einai alhqh kai gia to DNT, gia ton OOSA kai pragmati o ryqmos anaptyjhs ths xwras badizei me 3%, se sxesh me thn E.E.. To problhma einai oti den yparxoyn idiwtikes ependyseis. Opws gnwrizete kalytera apo emena, ayth h anaptyjh proerxetai apo ta xrhmata ths E.E.. Prwton, mporeite na mas peite an yparxei kapoia proodos, oson afora tis idiwtikes ependyseis sth xwra mas; Kai deyteron, pws ginetai h anakatanomh toy eisodhmatos pros oles kai idiaitera pros tis asqenesteres oikonomika tajeis, dioti bebaiws ayta ta noymera einai poly qetika gia thn oikonomia, alla den wfeloyn tis laikoteres tajeis, gi ayto yparxoyn kai diamartyries. Ekei, ws kybernhsh, ti kanete;

PRWTOPAPAS: Oson afora, to prwto stoixeio poy einai pragmati endiaferon, den einai swsto ayto poy legetai polles fores apo diafores pleyres oti o ryqmos anaptyjhs ofeiletai sto G@ KPS. H Ellada exei ychloys ryqmoys anaptyjhs. Kaneis den to amfisbhtei, ektos apo th N.D.. O ryqmos anaptyjhs ofeiletai kai se ayto, alla oxi mono se ayto. Prepei na sas pw oti apo to ycos twn ependysewn poy yparxoyn sth xwra mas, peripoy to 1/3 kalyptetai apo th symmetoxh twn eyrwpaikwn porwn. Apo ta programmata poy ekteloyntai, to 1/3 primodoteitai kaqara apo eqnikoys poroys. Ta alla 2/3 einai sygxrhmatodotoymena. Ayto, omws, den shmainei oti einai ej oloklhroy eyrwpaikoi poroi. Sta sygxrhmatodotoymena programmata ypologizetai oti to 50% einai eyrwpaikoi poroi kai to allo 50% einai ellhnikes idiwtikes kai dhmosies ependyseis. Einai ellhnikoi poroi. Ypologizoyme oti peripoy ta 2/3 twn porwn poy exoyme se ependyseis einai eqnikoi poroi dhmosioi kai idiwtikoi. Ara, exoyme entonh symmetoxh toy idiwtikoy tomea kai pisteyoyme oti ayto einai qetiko. Epanalambanw oti mono to 1/3 twn porwn gia ependyseis proerxetai apo koinotika kondylia. Ayto to tonizw gia na dialyqei o myqos oti ayth h anaptyjh ofeiletai mono se ejwqen poroys. Ofeiletai, panw apo ola, sto dynamismo poy exei apokthsei h ellhnikh oikonomia.

Oson afora, ta genikotera zhthmata, ta anefera xqes, opws anefera kai pws o Proypologismos aytos exei entono koinwniko proswpo.

KANELLOPOYLOS: Kyrie Ypoyrge, qa hqela na moy peite ean o Prwqypoyrgos epikoinwnhse me to Bretano omologo toy k. Mpler kai ean sto periexomeno ths synomilias toys perilambanotan kai to qema twn Bretanwn yphkown poy kratoyntai sthn Kalamata.

PRWTOPAPAS: Epibebaiwnw oti o Prwqypoyrgos, pragmati, eixe xqes to apogeyma makra thlefwnikh synomilia me ton k. Mpler, me ton opoio syzhthse tis dieqneis ejelijeis, opws to qema toy Afganistan kai zhthmata poy apasxoloyn thn E.E..

KANELLOPOYLOS: Syzhthsan to sygkekrimeno qema poy sas anefera;

PRWTOPAPAS: Den exw kamia sxetikh enhmerwsh gia to qema ths krathshs twn Bretanwn. Qelw na ypenqymisw oti to qema ayto den afora ton Prwqypoyrgo kai thn kybernhsh, alla thn ellhnikh Dikaiosynh. Epaneilhmmena exoyme tonisei sth bretanikh pleyra oti to ellhniko Syntagma problepei th diakrish twn ejoysiwn, dhladh oti h Dikaiosynh einai anejarthth.

KANELLOPOYLOS: Einai profanes oti yparxei endiaferon apo th bretanikh pleyra. Eqese tetoio qema ston Prwqypoyrgo o k. Mpler;

PRWTOPAPAS: Den to gnwrizw. Ekeino poy gnwrizw einai oti syzhthsan gia tis dieqneis ejelijeis.

KANELLOPOYLOS: Mono dieqnh qemata perielambane h synomilia;

PRWTOPAPAS: Bebaiws.

MPOTWNHS: Mporeite na mas peite an egine syzhthsh, apo thn pleyra toy k. Mpler, gia to "Dieyqynthrio" poy egine, prosfata, sto Londino;

PRWTOPAPAS: Pisteyw oti kai ayto einai ena apo ta qemata poy aforoyn tis sxeseis ths E.E.. Einai logiko na syzhteitai.

KALARITHS: Gia to qema twn jenwn yphkown poy kratoyntai, protiqetai o ypoyrgos Ejwterikwn na episkefqei, ayrio, kapoion apo aytoys kai sygkekrimena mia gynaika, h opoia krateitai me thn kathgoria ths kataskopeias;

PRWTOPAPAS: Gnwrizw oti qa yparjei episkech ekproswpwn toy ypoyrgeioy Ejwterikwn se kapoion apo toys kratoymenoys, mallon stis fylakes Korydalloy.

KALARITHS: Giati qa parembei to ypoyrgeio Ejwterikwn, afoy einai qema ths Dikaiosynhs;

PRWTOPAPAS: Den yparxei parembash. Qa yparxei mia episkech kalhs qelhshs. Tonizw oti den yparxei kanena qema parembashs.

KALARITHS: Giati yphrje h anagkh na parembei to ypoyrgeio Ejwterikwn;

PRWTOPAPAS: Sas epanalambanw oti den yparxei kamia parembash. Qa pragmatopoihqei mia episkech kalhs qelhshs apo pleyras toy ypoyrgeioy Ejwterikwn.

KALARITHS: Yphrje sxetiko aithma apo to bretaniko ypoyrgeio Ejwterikwn;

PRWTOPAPAS: Den yparxei tetoio aithma. Bebaiws, to ypoyrgeio Ejwterikwn toy Hnwmenoy Basileioy, einai logiko na endiaferetai gia to ti ginetai me polites ths xwras toy. Einai ejisoy logiko emeis na apantame gia to ti pragmatika ginetai, poy briskontai, ypo poies synqhkes, ti problhmata kai ti kathgories antimetwpizoyn. Einai logiko. Panta yparxei ayth h epikoinwnia metajy twn ypoyrgeiwn.

KALARITHS: Qa hqela kai ena sxolio gia ta dhmosieymata bretanikwn efhmeridwn poy kathgoroyn th xwra mas ws xwra toy "Ejpres toy Mesonyktioy", me aformh ayto to gegonos.

PRWTOPAPAS: Exw dei polla dhmosieymata ton teleytaio kairo, ta opoia aplws periegrafan to gegonos. Twra, an kapoio apo ayta htan akraio kai kitrino -giati mono etsi mporei na to apokalesei kaneis- den shmainei oti aytos einai o agglikos Typos. Bebaiws -kai ejairw ayta ta akraia dhmosieymata- einai logiko ena dhmosieyma agglikoy Typoy, na einai filiko pros toys Bretanoys. Qelw na tonisw -to eipa kai xqes kai to epanalambanw- oti oi polites aytoi den antimetwpizoyn to ellhniko kratos me thn ennoia ths kybernhshs, alla thn ellhnikh Dikaiosynh. Prin fqasoyn sthn Peloponnhso, opws gnwrizete, yphrje ena mikro epeisodio sthn Tanagra. Enhmerwqhkan proforika gia tis ypoxrewseis toys kai gia to ti apagoreyetai na kanoyn, oti apagoreyetai na fwtografizei kapoios to xwro twn aerodromiwn. Apo th stigmh, loipon, poy to gnwrizan, eprepe ki aytoi na symperiferqoyn analoga.

KALARITHS: Breqhkan, metajy allwn, sthn katoxh toys kai magnhtofwnhmenes synomilies twn Pyrgwn Elegxoy;

PRWTOPAPAS: Yparxoyn stoixeia poy odhghsan tis eisaggelikes arxes na apaggeiloyn kathgories. Omws, den mporw na krinw egw th sobarothta twn stoixeiwn aytwn. Ayto qa to krinei h ellhnikh Dikaiosynh kai monon ayth.

KANELLOPOYLOS: Sta stoixeia ayta poy lete oti breqhkan, yparxoyn plhrofories oti sta film poy emfanisthkan yphrxan polles fwtografhseis allwn stratiwtikwn egkatastasewn, peran ths Tanagras. Ti gnwrizete ep` aytoy;

PRWTOPAPAS: Den qelw na kanw ton astynomiko reporter. Eqesa to qema politika. Sas eipa oti h ellhnikh Dikaiosynh etsi ekrine oti eprepe na kanei. Sthrixqhke panw se orismena stoixeia poy oi arxes Asfaleias ths edwsan. Ayth htan h ektimhsh twn eisaggelikwn arxwn. Den mporw na krinw th Dikaiosynh. Emeis kanoyme ayto poy prepei kai enhmerwnoyme tis arxes toy Hnwmenoy Basileioy. Alla, den mporoyme na paremboyme sth dikastikh ejoysia.

KANELLOPOYLOS: Den zhthsa krish ths Dikaiosynhs...

PRWTOPAPAS: Den einai swsto na krinw egw poso sobara einai ta stoixeia.

KANELLOPOYLOS: Oyte ayto zhtw. Zhtw na moy peite, ean yparxoyn ayta ta stoixeia poy eipa.

PRWTOPAPAS: Moy exoyn anaferqei arketa stoixeia, alla to qema einai poso sobara einai. Den eimai se qesh na krinw th sobarothta toys, oyte na kanw astynomiko reportaz.

STAMATOPOYLOS: Qelw na rwthsw gia thn episkech ekproswpwn toy ypoyrgeioy Ejwterikwn stis fylakes. Dhladh, amfisbhtei to ypoyrgeio Ejwterikwn tis synqhkes krathshs kai th kalh qelhsh toy ypoyrgeioy Dikaiosynhs kai paei gia aytocia; Yparxei kati strabo;

PRWTOPAPAS: Oxi, den kanei ayto. Einai kinhsh kalhs qelhshs.

STAMATOPOYLOS: Ti shmainei, kalh qelhsh;

PRWTOPAPAS: H episkech poy exei programmatistei kai den gnwrizw se poio epipedo qa ginei telika, einai mia episkech kalhs qelhshs, oti yparxei endiaferon.

STAMATOPOYLOS: Apo to ypoyrgeio Dikaiosynhs den yparxei endiaferon;

PRWTOPAPAS: Yparxei endiaferon kai to ypoyrgeio Dikaiosynhs parakoloyqei apo poly konta ayth thn istoria. Einai mia kinhsh -apo o,ti exw plhroforhqei apo to ypoyrgeio Ejwterikwn- poy th xarakthrizoyn ws kinhsh kalhs qelhshs. Mhn apodidete se ola ta zhthmata prospaqeies skopimothtwn h otidhpote allo.

BITALHS: O armodios ypoyrgos Dikaiosynhs kai ta organa toy ypoyrgeioy toy, den mporoyn na pragmatopoihsoyn ayth thn episkech kalhs qelhshs gia na diapistwsoyn an tyxon yparxoyn kapoies synqhkes poy den einai ikanopoihtikes;

PRWTOPAPAS: Dhladh, ti lete; Na mhn paei to ypoyrgeio Ejwterikwn;

BITALHS: Den lew ayto. Prospaqw na katalabw, opws kai oloi mas, giati; Ti shmainei politika, episkech antiproswpeias toy ypoyrgeioy Ejwterikwn stis fylakes, apo th stigmh poy einai armodiothta toy ypoyrgeioy Dikaiosynhs.

PRWTOPAPAS: To ypoyrgeio Dikaiosynhs exei frontisei, opws kai gia toys Ellhnes polites, gia tis synqhkes krathshs toys. Oi synqhkes krathshs se ellhnikes fylakes einai poly ikanopoihtikes kai to gnwrizete oloi ayto. Einai eyrwpaikoy epipedoy to swfronistiko systhma mas. Apo th stigmh poy einai jenoi polites kai exei ekdhlwqei to entono endiaferon twn arxwn toy Hnwmenoy Basileioy, einai logiko to ypoyrgeio Ejwterikwn na qelei na kanei mia kinhsh kalhs qelhshs. Den katalabainw poy einai to problhma;

BITALHS: Yphrxe aithma apo th bretanikh presbeia h projeneio na toys episkefqei ekei;

PRWTOPAPAS: Den gnwrizw an toys exei episkefqei to projeneio h h presbeia, alla fantazomai oti qa exoyn synexh epafh mazi toys. Ayto to qewrw aytonohto.

SOYRMELIDHS: Prin apo mia wra, o ekproswpos Typoy toy ypoyrgeioy Ejwterikwn k. Mpegliths, anakoinwse se epishmh synenteyjh Typoy oti qa paei o ypoyrgos Ejwterikwn, kamia antiproswpeia.

PRWTOPAPAS: Eipa oti to ypoyrgeio Ejwterikwn qa ekproswphqei, alla den eipa se poio epipedo. To afhsa anoikto.

SOYRMELIDHS: O k. Mpegliths eipe akoma oti o k. Papandreoy qa paei stis fylakes Korydalloy kai oti mporei na paei kai stis fylakes Nayplioy. Eipe, epishs, oti yphrje synomilia toy k. Papandreoy me ton anaplhrwth ypoyrgo Ejwterikwn ths Bretanias gia to qema ayto. Telika, ti isxyei;

PRWTOPAPAS: Otan sas lew oti exei ekdhlwqei endiaferon twn arxwn toy Hnwmenoy Basileioy, ta idia pragmata den leme; Otan ekdhlwnoyn oi arxes toy Hnwmenoy Basileioy endiaferon, to ekdhlwnoyn pros to ypoyrgeio Ejwterikwn.

SOYRMELIDHS: Dieykrinish zhtw, den sxoliazw ayta poy lete. Einai allo pragma na paei o tmhmatarxhs "x", "c", "w" toy Foreign Office kai einai allo pragma na paei o anaplhrwths ypoyrgos Ejwterikwn.

PRWTOPAPAS: Milhsa gia arxes toy Hnwmenoy Basileioy kai, opws jerete, sth lejh "arxes" einai kai oi dyo periptwseis. Den katalabainw poia einai h diafora mas;

KARGOYDH: Epeidh apo thn enhmerwsh poy mas parexete, opws kai apo thn enhmerwsh toy k. Mpeglith, einai safes oti den einai synhqhs istoria kai den periorizetai se astynomiko pedio kai monon, hqela na rwthsw, ean qa prepei, meta kai thn ayrianh episkech toy k. Papandreoy ston Korydallo h sto Nayplio, na kanete kai eseis ws kybernhsh mia politikoy kai diplwmatikoy xarakthra enhmerwsh pros ta ellhnika MME.

PRWTOPAPAS: Exw kanei, hdh, politikoy xarakthra enhmerwsh pros ta ellhnika MME.

KARGOYDH: Nai, alla mexri twra, h istoria eixe astynomika kai dikastika xarakthristika. Apo th stigmh poy episkeptetai th fylakh o ypoyrgos Ejwterikwn, apokta kai diplwmatika xarakthristika kai rwtw, an h kybernhsh protiqetai na enhmerwsei kai toys Ellhnes polites.

PRWTOPAPAS: Den einai h prwth fora poy enhmerwnw gia to symban. Anaferqhka kai thn prohgoymenh Paraskeyh kai apo tote exw janamilhsei gia to qema ayto treis fores. Epanalambanw, oti exoyn syllhfqei aytoi oi anqrwpoi, kathgoroyntai gia kataskopia, se baqmo kakoyrghmatos kai exoyn kriqei profylakisteoi, me bash toys ellhnikoys nomoys. Bebaiws, yparxoyn endika mesa poy fantazomai oti qa ta askhsoyn. Den gnwrizw, omws, poia mesa qa epilejoyn, oyte pws akribws qa tekmhriwsoyn nomika to dikaiwma toys, oyte ti qa kanoyn oi dikastikes arxes poy qa paralaboyn ta aithmata toys. Den einai dynato na to gnwrizw, oyte na parembainoyme. Kaneis den prepei na parembainei sth Dikaiosynh. Bebaiws, ofeiloyme na enhmerwnoyme to ypoyrgeio Ejwterikwn toy Hnwmenoy Basileioy, otan endiaferetai na plhroforhqei poy briskontai kapoioi polites toy, ti kathgories antimetwpizoyn, ti leei o eisaggeleas, an qa dikastoyn, pote qa dikastoyn, k.t.l. Ayth einai h enhmerwsh poy ofeiloyme na dwsoyme.

KARGOYDH: H synhqhs odos enhmerwshs einai, ekproswpos ths edw bretanikhs presbeias na frontisei ta twn yphkown toy Bretanwn kai na enhmerwqei.

PRWTOPAPAS: Fantazomai oti to exei kanei, hdh, opws qa ekane kaqe presbeia, opoioydhpote kratoys.

GARGALAKOS: Meta tis xqesines anafores toy Prwqypoyrgoy sto Ypoyrgiko Symboylio, sxetika me thn ypoqesh ths kratikhs etaireias DEKA, epakoloyqhse ena sxolio toy epikefalhs toy grafeioy Typoy ths N.D. k. Roysopoyloy, o opoios cegei ton k. Shmith gia tis diaxronikes anafores toy panw sthn ypoqesh toy Xrhmatisthrioy kai leei sygkekrimena oti h ypoqesh ayth me thn kratikh etaireia DEKA, apotelei th megalyterh apath poy exei ginei sto Xrhmatisthrio. Exete kapoio sxolio;

PRWTOPAPAS: Kaqe fora poy exoyme qetikes ejelijeis sthn oikonomia kai yparxoyn shmeia apotypwshs aytwn twn qetikwn ejelijewn kai shmadia anakamchs sto Xrhmatisthrio, parembainei h N.D. kai dhmioyrgei zhthma Xrhmatisthrioy. Pisteyw oti edw exoyme apo th N.D. mia ensyneidhth prospaqeia dhmioyrgias katastrofikwn dedomenwn. Prokeitai gia ensyneidhth prospaqeia dhmioyrgias problhmatwn sto Xrhmatisthrio. Kai epeidh, telikws, ayth h energeia einai anepitrepth kai aparadekth, toys kaloyme gia mia akomh fora na afhsoyn to Xrhmatisthrio na leitoyrgei apo mono toy kai na mhn kanoyn oles aytes tis asthriktes politikes parembaseis, me tis opoies epixeiroyn ensyneidhta na dhmioyrgoyn problhmata. Paizoyn en oy paiktois. Kai ayto to gnwrizei poly kala o ellhnikos laos.

STAMATOPOYLOS: H kybernhsh, to PASOK qa dexqei na proxwrhsei ayth h protash gia na xyqei apleto fws kai na doqei mia telikh apanthsh, na jekaqarisei to qema, na dialyqoyn ola ta synnefa, gyrw apo ayth thn istoria; Qa dexqei thn Ejetastikh Epitroph;

PRWTOPAPAS: Den ektimoyme oti yparxoyn synnefa. Ta qemata toy Xrhmatisthrioy syzhthqhkan kat epanalhch sth Boylh. Syzhthqhkan stis Diarkeis Epitropes ths Boylhs, syzhthqhkan sthn Olomeleia, kata th diarkeia ths protashs momfhs kata toy k. Papantwnioy, janasyzhthqhkan kai prosfata. Otan, loipon, ta exei syzhthsei kai exei topoqethqei h Boylh, einai anepitrepto na janadhmioyrgoyntai problhmata. H Boylh topoqethqhke. Ayth h energeia ths N.D. einai ek toy ponhroy. Prospaqei na dhmioyrghsei problhmata sthn oikonomia. Fysika, den mporoyme na thn apodexqoyme.

MOYRTZHS: Teqhke xqes akroqigws to qema, alla to epanaferw gia na parw mia safh apanthsh. O Prwqypoyrgos, xqes, sto Ypoyrgiko Symboylio ekane ontws systash stoys ypoyrgoys toy na sas enhmerwnoyn gia dhlwseis poy exoyn kanei h poy prokeitai na kanoyn; Kai ean nai, praktika pws mporei na ginei ayto; Poia meqodo eseis proteinate;

PRWTOPAPAS: Oxi, den egine ayto. Zhthse na enhmerwnomaste, h politikh hgesia toy ypoyrgeioy Typoy, gia na syzhtoyme to epikoinwniako meros twn megalwn ejaggeliwn, opws einai sxedia nomoy, o Proypologismos h zhthmata poy exoyn na kanoyn me megala qemata poy aforoyn thn koinh gnwmh. Prin, loipon, proxwrhsoyn oi ejaggelies kai oi paroysiaseis megalwn qematwn, poy qa syzhthqoyn eyrytera kai aforoyn ton Ellhna polith, prepei na yparxei kai enas epikoinwniakos sxediasmos me th symbolh toy ypoyrgeioy Typoy. Peri aytoy prokeitai kai den yparxei kanena problhma. Pisteyw oti einai apolyta fysiologiko. Ejalloy, se ola ta krath toy kosmoy ginetai ayto.

MOYRTZHS: H efhmerida ``KAQHMERINH'' shmera paraqetei ton epishmo katalogo amoibwn toy Dioikhtikoy Symboylioy kai twn misqwn aytwn poy exoyn proslhfqei sto Olympiako Xwrio toy ``AQHNA 2004''. Ta erwthmata moy einai, poia krithria prytaneysan stis proslhceis, ean perasan oi proslhfqentes apo th diadikasia toy ASEP kai ean o teleytaios sthn klimaka misqos toy klhthra einai 685.000 draxmes, ean oi amoibes twn triwn koinwniologwn-dhmosiografwn einai 30 ekatommyria draxmes ethsiws kai ean exete thn kalosynh na mas peite ta onomata toys kai poio einai telika to kostos, ana tetragwniko metro, toy Olympiakoy Xwrioy;

PRWTOPAPAS: Ayta ta pragmata den isxyoyn, einai myqeymata. Apo kei kai pera, gnwrizete kala oti oi proslhceis kai h politikh amoibwn toy Olympiakoy Xwrioy, kaqorizontai mesa apo tis diadikasies poy problepei o nomos. Ennow to nomo basei toy opoioy idryqhke ayth h etaireia. Pisteyw oti gnwrizete pws h etaireia ayth exei idryqei kai leitoyrgei me nomo ton opoio exei chfisei h Boylh. Einai etaireia poy leitoyrgei me synqhkes Idiwtikoy Dikaioy. Exei sygkekrimenh apostolh, na xtisei to Olympiako Xwrio kai meta toys Olympiakoys Agwnes na paradwsei stoys dikaioyxoys toy OEK poy qa exoyn, en tw metajy, klhrwqei kai prosdioristei, gia tis ergatikes katoikies. Kai tote payei h yparjh ths etaireias. Oles oi diadikasies exoyn ginei mesa apo tis synqhkes poy problepontai apo to katastatiko ths etaireias kai apo to nomo, symfwna me ton opoio idryqhke. Kai fysika, tetoia posa, opws 685.000 draxmes amoibes gia toys klhthres, einai ejwpragmatika. Apo kei kai pera, poso qa kostisei to Olympiako Xwrio, to exoyme pei kat epanalhch. O proypologismos eixe teqei sto orio twn 125 disekatommyriwn draxmwn. Otan anateqhke to ergo, to poso to opoio qa diatiqeto gia thn oikistikh zwnh kymainotan peripoy sta 90-95 dis draxmes. Exoyme synacei symbash me tis etaireies, oi opoies anelaban thn kataskeyh aytoy toy Xwrioy, me thn opoia mpainoyn aysthrotates rhtres. Kai einai to monadiko ergo gia to opoio exoyn teqei toso aysthres rhtres, wste na mhn mporei na ginei kamia oikonomikh yperbash. Oi anadoxoi exoyn analabei thn ypoxrewsh na feroyn se peras to ergo me tis times me tis opoies to parelaban. Ejalloy exoyn kanei kai prosfores, exoyn kaqoristei times monadas gia ta panta, tis opoies den mporoyn na yperboyn. Ara, ola ayta poy akoygontai, oti dhqen to kostos toy ergoy qa diplasiastei k.l.p. einai kakoboyles ektimhseis. Den yfistantai tetoia zhthmata. Kai qa prepei orismenoi na einai poly prosektikoi, giati grafoyn diafora, ta opoia einai analhqh. Paradeigma: Ap o,ti exw plhroforhqei, shmera yparxoyn oi prwtes ektimhseis ths DOE gia to Olympiako Xwrio. Den gnwrizw tis synolikoteres. Gnwrizw oti, ayth th stigmh, ginontai oi sxetikes epejergasies kai bebaiws, mexri ayrio to meshmeri, qa exoyme kai tis synolikes ektimhseis. Epomenws, den protrexw. Gnwrizw, omws, oti h eikona poy emfanisthke to prwi, se sxesh me to Olympiako Xwrio, htan ejairetikh. Parola ayta, akomh diabazoyme dhmosieymata poy anaferoyn oti den ginetai tipota, ta diaceydei, omws, h idia h pragmatikothta. Kapoia stigmh qa prepei na maqoyme na apodexomaste thn pragmatikothta. Kai h pragmatikothta einai oti ayto to ergo -poy einai to megalytero ergo twn O.A.- proxwrei symfwna me ta xronodiagrammata poy exoyn oristei kai toys oikonomikoys oroys poy exoyn ejaggelqei.

KANELLOPOYLOS: Diabasa shmera sthn efhmerida ``RIZOSPASTHS'', oti mia megalh ektash sto kentro ths Aqhnas, ajias dekadwn dis draxmwn tis nemetai oysiastika me to ``etsi qelw'' kai xwris na plhrwnei draxmh, exontas thn kalych ths kybernhshs, h amerikanikh presbeia. H ektash anhkei sto Metoxiko Tameio Politikwn Ypallhlwn kai xrhsimopoieitai ws parkingk apo th amerikanikh presbeia, enw yparxei apofash toy Areioy Pagoy, apo to 1983, poy orizei thn epistrofh ths sto MTPY, h opoia den exei efarmostei. Kai malista anaferei oti to enoikio to plhrwnei to ypoyrgeio Oikonomikwn. Kataballei 70.000 draxmes to mhna. Poia einai h qesh ths kybernhshs;

PRWTOPAPAS: Einai ena qema poy ekkremei kai prepei na lyqei. Einai apo tis ekkremothtes poy den mporei na perimenoyn. Ejalloy, yparxoyn kai sxetikes dikastikes apofaseis. To qema qa lyqei syntoma.

KANELLOPOYLOS: Etsi opws ta grafei h efhmerida;

PRWTOPAPAS: H efhmerida bazei epiqeta kai xarakthrismoys, poy den isxyoyn.

KANELLOPOYLOS: Ws pros thn oysia toy dhmosieymatos;

PRWTOPAPAS: Epi ths oysias, yparxei ena oikopedo, to opoio enoikiasthke to 1967, anti toy posoy twn 70.000 draxmwn. To timhma ayto paramenei akomh kai shmera. To ellhniko Dhmosio plhrwnei 70.000 draxmes. Bebaiws, yparxei apofash toy Areioy Pagoy, poy orizei oti ayto to oikopedo prepei na apodoqei sto MTPY. Epomenws, yparxei mia ekkremothta kai qa lyqei pros to symferon twn asfalismenwn.

KANELLOPOYLOS: Giati to ellhniko Dhmosio plhrwnei ena xwro, ton opoio xrhsimopoiei h amerikanikh presbeia;

PRWTOPAPAS: Sas eipa oti einai palaioteres apofaseis, oi opoies jexasthkan apo oles tis kybernhseis kai paremeinan mexri shmera. Bebaia, to poso einai eyteles, alla den exei shmasia. Paremeinan aytes oi apofaseis epi 30-35 xronia kai oydeis asxolhqhke me aytes, profanws logw toy xamhloy posoy. Kapoia stigmh to qema efqase sth Dikaiosynh, h opoia apefanqh oti prepei na lyqei. H kybernhsh pisteyei oti prepei na lyqei kai qa labei oles tis anagkaies prwtoboylies gia na to lysei pros ofelos twn asfalismenwn toy MTPY. Kanw safh thn proqesh mas.

MPOTWNHS: H ypoqesh ths liberianhs etaireias einai pleon sth Dikaiosynh. Xqes o k. Ebert, shmera o k. Mhtsotakhs kai epeidh sthn prosfath synedriash ths K.E. kai toy E.G. yphrjan antirrhseis kai antidraseis apo arketa melh gia to ean qa prepei ayth h kontra na synexistei kai me poio tropo, o Prwqypoyrgos egkrinei olh ayth thn istoria kai thn kinhsh toy k. Laliwth;

PRWTOPAPAS: Einai mia dikastikh prosfygh. H dikastikh ereyna ejetazei kataggelies gia oikonomika skandala h gia mia seira zhthmatwn, ta opoia apasxolhsan idiaitera thn koinh gnwmh. Den katalabainw to erwthma sas. Ayth th stigmh o Eidikos Anakriths synexizei thn ereyna toy. Exei kalesei politika proswpa na kataqesoyn. Den einai sto xeri kanenos politikoy na egkrinei h na mhn egkrinei. Proxwrei h dikastikh ereyna. Gnwrizete th qesh ths kybernhshs. H qesh toy Prwqypoyrgoy kai ths kybernhsh einai oti ta erga eginan omala, oti to aerodromio egine poly swsta, oti o Kwstas Laliwths ekane poly kala th doyleia toy. Kai bebaiws, oles aytes oi epiqeseis poy ginontai, einai epiqeseis sykofantias apo thn pleyra ths N.D.

PAPADOPOYLOS: Alhqeyei h plhroforia oti o Prwqypoyrgos edwse entolh stoys armodioys ypoyrgoys na proxwrhsei h diadikasia kai na parei h Ekklhsia ta disekatommyria poy aitei apo to G@KPS;

PRWTOPAPAS: Den yparxei kamia entolh toy Prwqypoyrgoy na parei disekatommyria h Ekklhsia.

PAPADOPOYLOS: Eixe skalwsei kapoy to qema..;

PRWTOPAPAS: Qa adikhsoyme kai thn Ekklhsia ean poyme oti kapoioi gyreyoyn disekatommyria. Den einai etsi. Einai logiko h Ekklhsia na qelei na kanei kapoia erga h na pisteyei oti prepei na ajiopoihsei kapoies dynatothtes ths, opws piqanon na qeloyn kai para polles koinwnikes organwseis. H Ekklhsia exei ena rolo mesa se ola ayta kai einai fysiko na kanei tis protaseis ths, poy antimetwpizontai sto plaisio twn nomwn toy kratoys. Opws, gia paradeigma, h Ekklhsia ths Elladas, zhthse radiofwniko staqmo kai gnwrizete oti leitoyrgei ayth th stigmh nomima, etsi piqano na qelei na anaptyjei kai alles drasthriothtes. Den einai kako ayto. Qa symmetasxei se o,ti dikaioytai kai o,ti einai swsto ws protash kai se o,ti symballei se genikoteroys stoxoys, oi opoioi exoyn teqei.

PAPADOPOYLOS: Eseis moy to sxoliazete. Egw zhthsa apanthsh sthn plhroforia.

PRWTOPAPAS: Hmoyn safhs. H Ekklhsia ths Elladas antimetwpizetai qetika oson afora tis protaseis ths -opws oles oi megales koinwnikes organwseis- kai malista me thn idiaiterh barythta poy armozei sto rolo ths. Ayto shmainei oti den kanoyme xarh se kanenan, oyte yparxei paratypia. Efarmozontai se oles tis periptwseis oi nomoi toy kratoys.

PAPADOPOYLOS: Den ypainixqhka kati tetoio kyrie Ypoyrge;

PRWTOPAPAS: Ara, den yparxei kanena problhma.

PAPADOPOYLOS: Zhthsa mia apanthsh sthn erwthsh moy.

PRWTOPAPAS: Kai egw hmoyn safhs, ws pros to G@KPS. Ean, loipon, nomimopoieitai h dikaioytai h Ekklhsia na symmetasxei se tetoies prokhryjeis, oi protaseis qa ajiologoyntai kanonika, opws qa ajiologoyntai kai oles oi alles.

PAPADOPOYLOS: Mia erwthsh gia thn Eqnikh Trapeza, an epibebaiwnete thn plhroforia oti h Eqnikh prin apo th sygxwneysh ths eixe aposyrei, eixe ``kacei'', opws lene sthn agora, enan arketo ariqmo metoxwn gia na ginei ayth h sxesh me thn Alpha Bank pio deleastikh.

PRWTOPAPAS: Isa-isa, poy h Eqnikh Trapeza me idiaiterh synesh kai eyqynh poreyqhke se olh ayth thn istoria.

PAPADOPOYLOS: Dhladh, qelete na peite oti den egine kati tetoio.

PRWTOPAPAS: Oxi, bebaiws. Kai den htan kai dynato na ginei.

Xqes ekana enhmerwsh gia thn ypoqesh toy k. Xatzhgakh, alla proseja oti isws na mhn egine antilhpth, epeidh den htan on camera. Eida shmera kapoia xaritwmena, as to poyme etsi, mikropolitika sxolia. Qelw na tonisw oti ayto poy eipa, otan o k. Xatzhgakhs moy esteile ta sxetika anqh -me thn ypografh Marinos Antypas kai thn antigrafh Swthrhs Xatzhgakhs- einai oti efejhs, kaqe fora poy qa exw problhma gia freska loyloydia sto grafeio moy, qa kanw onomastikh anafora ston k. Xatzhgakh.

Sas eyxaristw.

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