Greek Government Press Briefing, 99-06-02

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From: The Hellenic Ministry of Press & Mass Media <http://www.minpress.gr/>

YPOYRGEIO TYPOY & MESWN MAZIKHS ENHMERWSHS

Aqhna, 2 Ioynioy 1999

Geia sas.

Opws gnwrizete, o Ypoyrgos Typoy k. Reppas symmetexei sthn apostolh, poy, me epikefalhs ton Prwqypoyrgo, metabainei sthn Kolonia gia th Synodo Koryfhs ths E. E. Etsi eimai egw mazi sas, shmera.

Akoyw tis erwthseis sas.

SOYRMELH: Shmera, o ellhnikos Typos mila gia mia seira epikoinwniwn toy k. Papandreoy me thn k. Olmprait kai oti yphrje mia telikh synennohsh me ton k. Miloytinobits, xqes to brady, opoy toy eipe o k. Miloytinobits oti einai poly konta se mia symfwnia. Ti akribws symbainei, ti egine;

NIKOLAOY: H k. Olmprait epikoinwnhse me ton Ypoyrgo Ejwterikwn k. Papandreoy...

SOYRMELH: Pote;

NIKOLAOY:... thn Kyriakh, to brady -an den kanw laqos- kai toy metefere to aithma na epikoinwnhsei ekeinos me th gioygkoslabikh hgesia. H epafh ayth htan sto plaisio twn synexizomenwn synomiliwn kai diapragmateysewn gia thn ejeyresh mias eirhnikhs diejodoy sto problhma. O k. Papandreoy epikoinwnhse. H ektimhsh poy yparxei, opws gnwrizete, dedomenhs kai ths epikeimenhs metabashs antiproswpeias ths E. E. sto Beligradi, einai oti diagrafetai mia qetikh kateyqynsh, diafainontai qetikes proypoqeseis gia thn ejeyresh mias lyshs. Ayth einai kai h eikona poy apekomise kai o Ellhnas Ypoyrgos Ejwterikwn.

SOYRMELH: H k. Olmprait phre sto thlefwno ton k. Papandreoy;

NIKOLAOY: H k. Olmprait zhthse apo ton Ellhna Ypoyrgo Ejwterikwn na epikoinwnhsei me th gioygkoslabikh hgesia.

STAMATOPOYLOS: Pote epikoinwnhse me th gioygkoslabikh hgesia;

NIKOLAOY: An me rwtate poia wra akribws, den eimai se qesh na sas pw.

STAMATOPOYLOS: Oxi.

NIKOLAOY: Epikoinwnhse thn epomenh hmera, th Deytera.

STAMATOPOYLOS: Yphrje antapokrish apo th gioygkoslabikh hgesia; Exete kati sygkekrimeno;

NIKOLAOY: Ayto poy exoyme -kai to opoio exei anakoinwqei, opws gnwrizete- einai oti h gioygkoslabikh hgesia qewrei oti mporoyme na eimaste konta se mia lysh sth bash twn proypoqesewn kai twn orwn poy eixe qesei h platforma toy G-8. Allwste, gnwrizete oti oi syzhthseis synexizontai. Yparxei mia nota aisiodojias.

SOYRMELH: O k. Papandreoy epikoinwnhse me to Miloytinobits h me to Giobanobits;

NIKOLAOY: Kai me ton k. Miloytinobits kai me ton k. Giobanobits.

MIXAHL: Eipate oti h aisqhsh poy eisepraje o k. Papandreoy apo tis synomilies toy me ton k. Miloytinobits htan oti mporei na eimaste konta, opws toy eipan h opws afhsan na ennohqei oi Gioygkoslaboi, se lysh, me bash to plaisio ths G-8. Omws, h Olmprait epanerxetai kai leei, afhste ta G-8, oi 5 oroi toy NATO einai to "zoymi" ths istorias. Pws to ektimate eseis ayto; Mporei na mplokaroyn tis diadikasies h einai apofasismenoi, ap' oti gnwrizete, oi Eyrwpaioi, ayth th fora, na pane kontra stoys Amerikanoys;

NIKOLAOY: As paroyme ta pragmata apo thn arxh. Gnwrizete oti oi synomilies, stis opoies symmetexei o Filandos proedros k. Axtisaari, o ekproswpos toy Rwsoy proedroy k. Tsernomirntin kai o Amerikanos yfypoyrgos Ejwterikwn k. Talmpot, edrazontai sto plaisio toy G-8. Yparxoyn polles epafes me th gioygkoslabikh hgesia. Exei kanei, allwste, opws jerete, sxetikes dhlwseis o Filandos proedros. Kai sto plaisio ayths ths prospaqeias synennohshs, entassetai kai h symmetoxh toy Ellhna Ypoyrgoy Ejwterikwn, kati poy -nomizw- einai idiaitera shmantiko, giati katadeiknyei kai ton rolo poy diadramatizei h xwra mas gia thn ejeyresh mias lyshs sthn perioxh. Ayto poy mporoyme na poyme shmera, epikeimenhs kai ths episkechs sto Beligradi twn apestalmenwn ths E. E., einai oti diafainetai pws mporei na yparjei mia qetikh diejodos apo thn krish. Den exei kriqei tipota. Diafainetai oti mporei na yparjei diejodos. Kai ayto einai kati poy mporei kaneis na to xarakthrisei qetiko. Alla, as anamenoyme na doyme kai ta apotelesmata.

KWNSTANTINIDHS: Yparxei h plhroforia shmera oti o k. Papandreoy, piqanotata, na metabei kai sth Gioygkoslabia na synanthsei ton Milosebits;

NIKOLAOY: Den yparxei programmatismeno kati tetoio.

KARGOYDH: An einai dynaton na gnwrizoyme, h k. Olmprait zhthse apo ton k. Papandreoy na paijei enan endiameso rolo, ap' oti katalabainw, metaferontas ena mhnyma twn HPA sth gioygkoslabikh hgesia. Sth bash tinos pragmatos; Sth bash poias symfwnias, poioy plaisioy, toy G-8, toy NATO; Ti proteinei, dia mesoy ths Elladas, sth Gioygkoslabia, h k. Olmprait;

NIKOLAOY: Jerete oti to basiko plaisio twn syzhthsewn diejagetai panw sthn platforma toy G-8.

KARGOYDH: H k. Olmprait, omws, dhmosiws, akomh kai shmera epimenei sthn platforma toy NATO.

NIKOLAOY: H platforma toy G-8 jekinhse apo thn platforma toy NATO. Den einai kati poy "epese apo ton oyrano". Htan h synexeia mias diadikasias poy eixe hdh jekinhsei. Qa elega oti den einai skopimo na mpoyme, ayth th stigmh, se leptomereies twn syzhthsewn, oi opoies aforoyn poly leptoys xeirismoys, mias poly dyskolhs ypoqeshs. Shmasia exei oti h Ellada einai paroysa sthn ypoqesh ayth kai kanei oti pernaei apo to xeri ths kai oti einai dynato na kanei gia na symbalei sthn ejeyresh mias eirhnikhs lyshs.

MIXAHL: Prepei na diasafhnistei toylaxiston h dikh mas anameijh, gia na exoyme jekaqara sto myalo mas oti exei ginei. O k. Papandreoy dexqhke ena thlefwnhma apo thn k. Olmprait. Toy eipe, "pare thlefwno to Beligradi gia na maqoyme ti akribws lene oi Gioygkoslaboi" h toy eipe, "pare thlefwno to Beligradi kai pes toys ayto"; Gia na katalaboyme ti rolo paijame emeis.

NIKOLAOY: Kyrie Mixahl, as moy epitrecete na pw oti oi syzhthseis aytes den diejagontai se ena tetoio tono...

MIXAHL: Sas to eipa poly apla gia na katalaboyme...

NIKOLAOY: Den qa proteina na mpoyme se mia tetoioy eidoys syzhthsh. Shmasia exei oti o Ellhnas Ypoyrgos Ejwterikwn -kai di' aytoy h xwra mas- diadramatise kai diadramatizei ena rolo, sthn prospaqeia ejeyreshs mias eirhnikhs lyshs. Kai ayto poy endiaferei shmera kai th xwra mas kai thn perioxh, alla kai ton kosmo oloklhro einai na ejeyreqei syntoma mia eirhnikh diejodos apo thn krish. Ayto einai poy exei shmasia.

STAMATOPOYLOS: Alla h k. Olmprait ton phre thlefwno. Ti toy zhthse; Den mporoyme na jeroyme ti toy zhthse; Ton phre thlefwno kai toy eipe kati. Ti toy eipe;

NIKOLAOY: Gnwrizete oti olh h prospaqeia ayth th stigmh -kai edw kai arketo kairo- einai prospaqeia gia na ejeyreqei mia lysh. Sto plaisio ths prospaqeias ayths ginontai diafores synennohseis, syzhthseis, diaboyleyseis. H syzhthsh, loipon, sthn opoia symmetexei kai h Ellada, dia toy Ypoyrgoy Ejwterikwn, einai akribws gia na ejeyreqei ayth h lysh sto problhma toy Kossyfopedioy.

STAMATOPOYLOS: Nai, kyrie Genike, alla kati toy zhthse...

NIKOLAOY: Apanthsa hdh...

STAMATOPOYLOS: Den apanthsate. Ektos kai an den exei pei o k. Papandreoy ti toy zhthse. An den to koinopoiei...

NIKOLAOY: O k. Papandreoy to koinopoiei, ekei poy prepei na to koinopoihsei kai gnwrizete poly kala, oti yparxoyn orismena qemata, ta opoia -epeidh oi energeies, oi prospaqeies, oi syzhthseis ginontai gia na ejeyreqei lysh- den prosferontai gia dhmosies sxeseis, oyte gia thn ikanopoihsh toy filoqeamonos koinoy. Emeis prospaqoyme na symbaloyme sth lysh. Loipon, opoies syzhthseis ginontai, ginontai gia na mporesei h Ellada na syneisferei sthn ejeyresh mias lyshs, oso to dynaton pio grhgora. Twra, an einai dynaton. Ayto to nohma eixe kai h epikoinwnia toy Ypoyrgoy Ejwterikwn me thn k. Olmprait kai me th gioygkoslabikh hgesia.

KWNSTANTINIDHS: Sas rwthsa prohgoymenws, an prokeitai na metabei sth Gioygkoslabia kai moy eipate oti den einai programmatismeno. Einai dynato na anaptyxqei mia prwtoboylia apo thlefwnoy;

NIKOLAOY: O k. Papandreoy den aneptyje mia aytonomh ellhnikh prwtoboylia. Oi syzhthseis aytes entassontai sto plaisio mias prospaqeias anazhthshs lyshs poy anaptyssetai sto plaisio ths E. E. kai toy NATO.

KWNSTANTINIDHS: Ayto qa ginei thlefwnika;

NIKOLAOY: Jerete oti metabainei o Filandos Proedros, shmera, sth Gioygkoslabia. H Ellada exei parei polles prwtoboylies kai an xreiastei qa parei ki alles. Alla, emeis qeloyme oi prwtoboylies mas na pianoyn topo, na bohqoyn. Kai ayto kanoyme. Prospaqoyme na bohqhsoyme.

MIXAHL: H kybernhsh pws ektima oti mporei na ephreasoyn to apotelesma twn Eyrweklogwn oi ejelijeis sto gioygkoslabikotis teleytaies hmeres kai to gegonos oti oi 15 hgetes sthn Kolonia qa prepei h oxi na katalhjoyn se kapoia koinh qesh gia to ti mellei genesqai;

NIKOLAOY: Den mporw na ginw manths kai oyte mporw na jerw poies qa einai oi ejelijeis poy qa ephreasoyn to apotelesma twn eklogwn. Omws, h ypoqesh toy Kossyfopedioy den einai ena qema to opoio sxetizetai h prepei na to sysxetizoyme, emeis, me politiko kostos h politiko ofelos. Einai mia krish sthn perioxh, h opoia prepei, gia polloys logoys, na teleiwsei grhgora. Ayto einai anejarthto apo to opoio apotelesma, kalo h asxhmo, gia opoiodhpote komma, stis Eyrwekloges. H eyqynh ths kybernhshs einai na bohqhsei na ejeyreqei lysh. Kai ayto den exei kamia sxesh me to opoio apotelesma twn Eyrweklogwn.

MOYRTZHS: O k. Shmiths, sth xqesinh synenteyjh toy, ektimhse oti yparxoyn pagides kai oti qa yparjei ekmetalleysh ths dikhs Otsalan apo thn Agkyra. To zhthma einai oti o ellhnikos Typos einai dixasmenos. Apo th mia meria paroysiazei ton Otsalan "cofodeh kai paraklhto gia th zwoyla toy" kai apo thn allh pleyra, orismenoi lene oti "ta kelahdaei me th syndromh cyxologikwn kai iatrikwn basanisthriwn". Poia einai h ektimhsh sas;

NIKOLAOY: Emeis den qa mpoyme se tetoioy eidoys analyseis kai anazhthseis. Exoyme dhlwsei, edw kai poly kairo, oti sto plaisio enos kratoys dikaioy, o kathgoroymenos -kaqe kathgoroymenos- dikaioytai na dikazetai dikaia kai eleyqera. Ayth einai mia qesh arxhs poy isxyei, bebaiws, kai gia thn Toyrkia. Apo kei kai pera, h ellhnikh kybernhsh exei, polles fores, dhlwsei oti ta qemata poy sxetizontai me th dikh toy k. Otsalan, den qa apotelesoyn shmeio anaforas ths ellhnikhs eswterikhs politikhs zwhs.

MOYRTZHS: Oti leei o Otsalan ayth th stigmh kykloforei se olh thn Eyrwph. Etsi yparxei mia qesh, mia apoch, dhmioyrgeitai ena klima kai qa hqela na maqw, an qa parete telika qesh se osa eipe kai se osa qa "apokalycei" sth synexeia. Kai ean, telika qa prepei oi koyrdikes organwseis -giati den to blepoyme ayto- na paroyn mia qesh sta osa leei. Oi koyrdikes organwseis den pairnoyn kamia qesh...

NIKOLAOY: To ti qa kanoyn oi koyrdikes organwseis einai qema diko toys. Den afora thn ellhnikh kybernhsh. Se oti afora to qema genika, gnwrizete oti h xwra mas exei, edw kai para poly kairo, topoqethqei me plhrh diaygeia. Exei milhsei gia thn katadikh, apo thn Ellada, opoiasdhpote tromokratikhs energeias, apo opoydhpote ki an proerxetai. Exei dhlwsei safws oti einai yper ths anagnwrishs twn dikaiwmatwn twn Koyrdwn, sto plaisio ths Toyrkias. Exei dhlwsei, epishs -kai einai mia qesh arxhs ayth- oti den einai yper ths allaghs twn synorwn, kamias xwras. Qelei oti symbainei, na symbainei sto plaisio ths shmerinhs kyriarxias twn kratwn. Exei dhlwsei, epishs, oti h Toyrkia qa prepei na apodeijei sth dieqnh koinothta oti kanei bhmata gia na yparjei ws kratos dikaioy. Ayth einai dikh mas qesh arxhs. Thn exoyme diatypwsei edw kai para poly kairo kai s' ayth paramenoyme. Epanalambanw oti se osa blepoyn to fws ths dhmosiothtas gyrw apo th dikh toy k. Otsalan, den exoyme kanena logo na anameixqoyme kai poly perissotero na ta metatrecoyme se qemata poy aforoyn thn Ellada kai thn eswterikh ths politikh zwh.

KWNSTANTINIDHS: Kyrie Ekproswpe, o k. Otsalan kathgorei eyqews thn Ellada gia to qema ths tromokratias. Einai dynaton na mhn parei qesh h Ellada s' ayto to zhthma;

NIKOLAOY: Kat' arxhn den qa kanoyme dialogo me ton k. Otsalan. Poly perissotero den qa kanoyme dialogo me ton k. Otsalan apo ena gyalino kloybi. Kai akomh perissotero den qa kanoyme dialogo gia ta osa akoygontai se mia dikh h opoia den plhroi toys oroys poy prepei na threi ena kratos dikaioy. Epanalambanw, omws, oti h xwra mas, edw kai para poly kairo, exei milhsei gia ola ayta ta qemata. Kai exei dwsei poly jekaqares apanthseis. Allwste o idios o Prwqypoyrgos, xqes se synenteyjh toy sthn thleorash, htan safhs kai kathgorhmatikos. Den exoyme logo na epanelqoyme sto qema.

STAMATOPOYLOS: Yparxei epistolh toy k. Tzem poy zhta na ypogracoyme symfwnia me thn Toyrkia gia thn tromokratia;

NIKOLAOY: Yparxei epistolh toy k. Tzem h opoia anaferetai se para polla qemata. Ena ap' ayta einai kai ayto sto opoio anafereste. Den afora akribws thn tromokratia, afora thn piqanothta symfwnias s' ena tropo genikoterhs antimetwpishs problhmatwn poy exoyn sxesh me thn asfaleia.

STAMATOPOYLOS: H Ellada ti apanta;

NIKOLAOY: Opws gnwrizete oi qeseis mas, se oti afora th sxesh mas me thn Toyrkia, exoyn kata kairoys diatypwqei. Emeis pisteyoyme pws h Toyrkia prepei na badisei ston eyrwpaiko dromo, alla gia na to kanei qa prepei, prwta ap' ola, na sebastei toys kanones toy Dieqnoys Dikaioy, na katoxyrwsei ta dhmokratika dikaiwmata sto eswteriko ths kai na leitoyrghsei ws mia politismenh xwra. Apo ekei kai pera ola ta ypoloipa, otan erqei o kairos, qa apanthqoyn.

T. MPERMPERAKHS: Mporeite na mas dieykrinisete ti ennoeite otan lete "den apantame pros stigmhn";

NIKOLAOY: Eipa oti den yparxei ayth th stigmh apanthsh apo to ellhniko YPEJ to opoio en kairw qa apanthsei sto plaisio poy sas anefera prin.

T. MPERMPERAKHS: Epanerxetai epishs me ayth thn epistolh toy o k. Tzem sthn protash toy oson afora ta pente shmeia poy eixe qesei, gia kapoio dialogo metajy Ellados kai Toyrkias; S' ayto ti apanthsh dinete;

NIKOLAOY: Epanelaba oti oi qeseis ths Elladas gia th sxesh ths me thn Toyrkia einai pagies kai staqeres. Emeis pisteyoyme pws xreiazetai na exoyme sxeseis filias, synergasias kai kalhs geitonias, alla ayto ejartatai apo thn Toyrkia h opoia prepei na egkataleicei tis diekdikhseis pros th xwra mas. Kai exoyme ypodeijei kai tropoys, opws einai h prosfygh sto Dieqnes Dikasthrio ths Xaghs, gia opoies diekdikhseis poy pisteyei oti exei. Pisteyoyme, loipon, oti h Toyrkia einai ekeinh h opoia prepei na kanei ta bhmata poy apaitoyntai gia na epibebaiwsei oti epiqymei mia kalh sxesh me thn Ellada.

T. MPERMPERAKHS: Metadidetai oti h Germanikh Proedria exei balei sthn ATZENTA ths Synodoy Koryfhs to qema ths Toyrkias gia thn epidiwjh ths na katastei ypochfio melos. An yparxei tetoia plhroforhsh kai pws thn sxoliazete;

NIKOLAOY: Tetoia plhroforhsh den exoyme. H apanthsh sto sxolio poy zhtate einai pagio gia th xwra mas. H Ellada einai yper toy eyrwpaikoy prosanatolismoy ths Toyrkias, ypo thn proypoqesh omws oti h Toyrkia qa sebastei toys kanones toy Dieqnoys Dikaioy, qa stamathsei na exei ajiwseis kai na antidikei me toys geitones ths kai qa sebastei ta anqrwpina dikaiwmata sto eswteriko ths. Ypo aytes tis proypoqeseis, bebaiws, h Ellada mporei na syzhthsei to qema ths eyrwpaikhs prooptikhs ths Toyrkias. Alla den exw thn entypwsh oti ayto qa ginei sthn Kolonia.

T. MPERMPERAKHS: H erwthsh htan an exei plhroforhsh h Ellada oti h Germania qa to qesei sthn ATZENTA twn synomiliwn.

NIKOLAOY: Eipa oti den exei tetoia plhroforhsh kai oti ean teqei kati tetoio, bebaiws oi ellhnikes qeseis einai oi pagies ellhnikes qeseis, aytes poy sas eipa prohgoymenws.

ALEJAKH: Anaferqhkate prohgoymenws sto Dieqnes Dikasthrio ths Xaghs kai hqela na sas rwthsw to ejhs: Prin apo liges hmeres eixame apo to Dieqnes Dikasthrio thn protash parapomphs toy Proedroy Milosebits kai stelexwn ths kybernhshs toy kai anarwtiemai ean qewrei akoma h kybernhsh oti einai ajiopisto to Dieqnes Dikasthrio ths Xaghs, ypo thn ennoia oti den egine kamia anafora oyte gia to NATO, oyte gia osa ginontai ayto to diasthma sth Gioygkoslabia.

NIKOLAOY: An amfisbhthsoyme th nomimothta twn dieqnwn organwn, tote qa prepei na synapofasisoyme oti h dieqnhs koinwnia einai koinwnia xwris arxes, xwris kanones kai xwris oria. Emeis eimaste yper toy sebasmoy twn kanonwn poy yparxoyn. Yper toy sebasmoy ths dynatothtas twn xwrwn poy exoyn diafores na prosfeygoyn se dieqnh dikaiodotika organa. Kai ena tetoio einai to Dieqnes Dikasthrio ths Xaghs. Alimono, an to amfisbhthsoyme ayto. Allwste, emeis egkaloyme tis xwres oi opoies den exoyn anagnwrisei th dikaiodosia toy Dieqnoys Dikasthrioy ths Xaghs, opws einai h Toyrkia kai na tis kaloyme na thn anagnwrisoyn. Kai malista to qetoyme ws proypoqesh -kai den eimaste oi monoi, to qetoyn kai polles alles eyrwpaikes xwres, giati ayto problepetai kai apo thn idia th leitoyrgia ths E. E. - gia na synacei peraiterw sxeseis me thn E. E. Alimono, loipon, an emeis amfisbhthsoyme kati tetoio.

GARGALAKOS: Einai kai diaforetiko dikasthrio ekei poy phge'

NIKOLAOY: Asfalws, einai diaforetiko dikasthrio. Shmasia exei oti ta dieqnh dikaiodotika organa prepei na ginontai sebasta. Kai ayth einai mia pagia qesh arxhs ths xwras mas.

SOYRMELH: Sxetika me thn epistolh toy k. Tzem pros ton Ellhna YPEJ, eipate oti den apanthsate kai qa apanthqei en kairw. Ypoqetw oti yponoeite oti to ellhniko YPEJ meleta ayth thn epistolh. Ayto ennoeite;

NIKOLAOY: Asfalws.

SOYRMELH: Ayto ennoeite.

NIKOLAOY: Qa htan kalo na mhn thn melethsei;

SOYRMELH: Oxi. Rwtw, epeidh sthn apanthsh sas ayto htan san mia aporrich.

NIKOLAOY: Oxi. Eipa oti meletatai h epistolh, kaqe epistolh meletatai. Ayto poy dieykrinisa einai oti oles aytes oi kinhseis apo th dikh mas pleyra afenos einai panta entagmenes s' ena plaisio dieqnwn sxesewn me bash toys dieqneis kanones, tis dieqneis synqhkes kai tis sxeseis ths xwras mas me thn Toyrkia kai afeteroy prepei na syndyazontai apo thn pleyra ths Toyrkias me mia seira kinhseis stis opoies prepei na probei h geitonikh xwra kai tis opoies exoyme polles fores anaferei. Einai pagies qeseis ths Elladas. H Toyrkia mporei na prosfygei sto Dieqnes Dikasthrio ths Xaghs an exei opoiesdhpote ajiwseis kai problhmata me th xwra mas.

SOYRMELH: Symfwna me ton toyrkiko Typo, o k. Otsalan exei kathgorhsei thn Ellada oti exei prosferei bary oplismo sto R. K. K. Exete na peite kati gi' ayto; Ayto einai kapws kainoyrgio, sxetika me ta ypoloipa.

NIKOLAOY: Ayta exoyn kata kairoys dei to fws ths dhmosiothtas kai apo epishmes kai apo anepishmes toyrkikes phges. H Ellada exei para polles fores dhlwsei oti den exei kamia sxesh me opoiesdhpote tromokratikes prajeis. Tis katadikazei apo opoydhpote kai an proerxontai. Den eixe pote kai oyte qa exei sto mellon opoiadhpote anameijh me tetoioy eidoys gegonota kai peristatika. Alla, den yparxei logos na syzhthsoyme tetoia qemata, giati o ellhnikos laos gnwrizei ti yparxei kai ti den yparxei sthn Ellada. Gnwrizei oti h Ellada einai mia dhmokratikh xwra.

DHMOSIOGRAFOS: To prwi yphrje mia synanthsh metajy twn ekproswpwn ths N. D. kai toy PASOK. Telika giati katargeitai ayto to legomeno debate;

NIKOLAOY: Ej oswn gnwrizw -para to gegonos oti ayto, opws jerete, einai qema poy afora ta kommata kai oxi thn kybernhsh- h N. D. den symfwnhse na diejaxqei syzhthsh anamesa ston Prwqypoyrgo kai ton arxhgo ths ajiwmatikhs antipoliteyshs me toys oroys poy eixe diejaxqei h syzhthsh stis ekloges toy 1996, metajy toy k. Shmith kai toy k. Ebert. Eixe mia alloy typoy proseggish, hqele mia allh syzhthsh, to plaisio ths opoias den htan idiaiterws safes. H dikh mas gnwmh kai h ektimhsh htan ej arxhs oti gia na einai apodotikh mia syzhthsh metajy dyo koryfaiwn politikwn paragontwn ths xwras, qa prepei na exei kanones gia na mporei ekei o kaqenas me anesh na ekfrasei tis apoceis, tis qeseis kai to programma toy to opoio, asfalws, epiqymei na akoysei o ellhnikos laos. Eixame ej arxhs dhlwsei oti den qa symfwnhsoyme se mia diadikasia h opoia qa qesei se kindyno th dynatothta twn politikwn arxhgwn na synomilhsoyn h qa odhghsei se syzhthseis me diajifismoys kai diakopes, kati poy den qa wfeloyse asfalws ton politiko dialogo sth xwra. Einai aporias ajio giati o k. Karamanlhs den apodexetai toys oroys me toys opoioys eixe syzhthsei o k. Ebert. Dhladh o k. Ebert to 1996 syzhthse me tropo antidhmokratiko me ton Prwqypoyrgo; Den eixe th dynatothta na qesei tis apoceis toy kai na ekfrasei thn politikh toy;

SOYGLERHS: O k. Karamanlhs otan rwthqhke, xqes, gi' ayto eipe giati na symfwnhsoyme me thn protash toy k. Shmith kai na mhn symfwnhsei o k. Shmiths me thn protash th dikh mas kai parallhla na symmetexoyn kai oi alloi arxhgoi, dioti'

NIKOLAOY: Na sas pw giati: Prwton, dioti h protash me bash thn opoia egine kai h syzhthsh to 1996, ypodeiknyei mia formoyla syzhthshs poy akoloyqeitai stis perissoteres xwres toy kosmoy. Me tetoio tropo diejagontai oi syzhthseis anamesa stoys politikoys arxhgoys. Deyteron, emeis qeloyme mia syzhthsh analytikh kai diejodikh, qeloyme na paroysiastoyn qeseis kai apoceis. Kai gnwrizete, asfalws, oti oi synadelfoi sas poy qa epairnan meros sth syzhthsh poy qa ginotan, qa eqetan asfalws erwthseis oi opoies qa edinan th dynatothta stoys politikoys arxhgoys na apanthsoyn epi ths oysias. Emeis eixame dhlwsei ej arxhs oti den qa symfwnhsoyme se mia syzhthsh h opoia qa exei ton kindyno na metatrapei se enan "dialogo" me diajifismoys, diakopes, ena dialogo poy den qa eynooyse cyxraimh kai analytikh paraqesh qesewn, apocewn kai programmatwn. Fainetai oti o k. Karamanlhs den epidiwkei kati tetoio. Synexizei na mila genikws, qewrhtikws kai synqhmatologikws. Emeis den qeloyme ena tetoio "dialogo".

Se oti afora twra to qema ths symmetoxhs twn allwn politikwn arxhgwn, pisteyoyme oti, kata paradosh -kai se oles tis dhmokratikes xwres etsi ginetai- synomiloyn oi arxhgoi twn dyo megalwn kommatwn. Einai profanes oti h syzhthsh me epta h oktw politikoys arxhgoys den mporei na einai analytikh, oyte mporei na einai diejodikh, oyte mporei na ftasei sto baqos kai thn oysia twn megalwn problhmatwn kai tis apoceis, tis protaseis poy exei to kaqe komma, panw s' ayta. Kai allwste se tipota den empodizetai o k. Karamanlhs na syzhthsei me toys alloys arxhgoys opote to epiqymei. Giati den toys kalei se dialogo;

DHMOSIOGRAFOS: Xqes, o k. Karamanlhs se mia apanthsh toy eipe oti o idios exei apolyth empistosynh ston Prwqypoyrgo, oti h syzhthsh metajy toys oyte qa parektrapei, oyte qa yparxoyn diakopes, opws anaferate eseis, oti mporei na ginei mia syzhthsh opoy qa akoystoyn qeseis, apoceis kai programmata. Na ypoqesw, apo th dikh sas apanthsh, oti o k. Shmiths den exei thn idia empistosynh ston k. Karamanlh.

NIKOLAOY: Den einai qema proswpikhs empistosynhs. Einai qema kanonwn me bash toys opoioys diejagetai o politikos dialogos, poly perissotero otan o dialogos aytos einai anamesa se dyo koryfaioys politeiakoys paragontes ths xwras. Den einai mia syzhthsh h opoia ginetai metajy filwn se enan idiwtiko xwro. Milame gia mia dhmosia syzhthsh metajy toy Prwqypoyrgoy kai toy arxhgoy ths ajiwmatikhs antipoliteyshs. Gia na einai apodotikh, loipon, ayth h syzhthsh prepei na exei kanones. H dikh mas qesh htan ej arxhs -kai paramenei- oti o dialogos aytos den ginetai gia ta matia toy kosmoy, oyte ginetai gia na kalycoyme aplws to plaisio mias dhmokratikhs, proeklogikhs periodoy. Ginetai gia oysiastikoys logoys. Gia na antiparateqoyn apoceis, qeseis kai protaseis. H N. D. den exei paroysiasei, mexri stigmhs, ston ellhniko lao oyte apoceis, oyte qeseis, oyte protaseis. Kai aytos einai kata th gnwmh mas o logos gia ton opoio o k. Karamanlhs apofeygei, me texnasmata, to dialogo. Giati peri texnasmatwn prokeitai. Ama exeis qeseis kai apoceis proserxesai sto dialogo kai les th gnwmh soy.

STAMATOPOYLOS: Dhladh me to dialogo den mporeis na anaptyjeis to programma soy kai tis qeseis soy;

NIKOLAOY: Peri dialogoy milame.

STAMATOPOYLOS: Lete "me dialogo den mporeis".

NIKOLAOY: Me dialogo, eipa. Alla eipa me organwmeno dialogo, me kanones.

STAMATOPOYLOS: Me toys kanones toys dikoys sas mono.

NIKOLAOY: Me toys kanones poy isxyoyn se olo ton kosmo.

STAMATOPOYLOS: Poioi einai aytoi poy isxyoyn se olo ton kosmo;

NIKOLAOY: Aytoi poy isxysan sthn Ellada kai to 1996.

STAMATOPOYLOS: O Prwqypoyrgos einai diateqeimenos an h diafora me th N. D. einai mikrh na paei se prowres ekloges;

NIKOLAOY: An einai yper toy PASOK mikrh h diafora;

STAMATOPOYLOS: Oxi, yper ths N. D.

NIKOLAOY: Den qa einai yper ths N. D.

STAMATOPOYLOS: An einai;

NIKOLAOY: Ma, den qa einai.

STAMATOPOYLOS: Meta tis eyrwekloges qa paei se prowres ekloges;

NIKOLAOY: Oxi. Exoyme pei oti ekloges qa ginoyn to 2000. To exei dhlwsei o Prwqypoyrgos. Kai xqes to epanelabe.

STAMATOPOYLOS: Poio mhna;

NIKOLAOY: Opote einai programmatismenes. Ton Oktwbrio toy 2000. Den exoyn allajei ta syntagmatika oria.

STAMATOPOYLOS: Giati mporoyn na ginoyn to Martio, gi' ayto rwtaw.

NIKOLAOY: Emeis gia ton Oktwbrio exoyme apofasisei. Ekei einai o stoxos mas.

T. MPERMPERAKHS: An mporeite na mas dieykrinisete an mia piqanh symfwnia metajy Ellados kai Toyrkias gia asfaleia, gia tromokratia yparxei kai ayto to qema h ellhnikh proypoqesh gia dhlwsh ths Toyrkias oti qa prosfygei sth Xagh.

NIKOLAOY: Den milame, kat' arxhn, gia opoiadhpote piqanh symfwnia. Milame gia to plaisio mias epistolhs poy apesteile o k. Tzem, h opoia -opws sas eipa- ejetazetai kai syzhteitai. Eimaste poly makria apo opoiesdhpote tetoioy eidoys syzhthseis. Yparxoyn polla pragmata mexri na syzhthqei kati tetoio.

KWNSTANTINIDHS: Qa hqela na rwthsw gia to qema toy thleoptikoy dialogoy. Oristika kai ametaklhta den qa ginei.

NIKOLAOY: Nomizw oti ayto epeleje h N. D.

STAMATOPOYLOS: Egine kapoio diabhma sthn Albania gi' ayta poy eipe o Albanos ypoyrgos Ejwterikwn gia thn Ellada;

NIKOLAOY: O k. Reppas aphnthse xqes gia to plaisio twn ellhnoalbanikwn sxesewn. Milhse o k. Kranidiwths me toys Albanoys epishmoys. Yparxei diarkhs epafh. H xwra mas exei eggyhqei thn politikh staqerothta ths Albanias kai thn exei bohqhsei epaneilhmmena kai ayto qa synexisei na kanei. Epidiwkoyme kales, filikes sxeseis me thn Albania.

STAMATOPOYLOS: Diabhma egine gia tis dhlwseis toy k. Milo;

NIKOLAOY: Apanthsa kai s' ayto.

SOYGLERHS: Gia tis dhlwseis toy k. Milo oti an exoyme mazikes apelaseis'

NIKOLAOY: Apanthse o k. Reppas, xqes, ap' ayto to bhma. To plaisio twn sxesewn mas me thn Albania einai kai prepei na parameinei staqero. Kai jerete oi xwres poy eggywntai thn asfaleia sthn perioxh -kai tetoia xwra einai h Ellada- oi xwres poy einai ekproswpoi ths staqerothtas kai ths omalothtas sthn perioxh den epidiwkoyn na broyn tropoys gia na antidikhsoyn. Epidiwkoyn na diasfalisoyn thn omalothta. Ayto kanei kai h Ellada.

STAMATOPOYLOS: Ti qelete na peite oti to diabhma einai antidikia otan o allos sas brizei;

NIKOLAOY: Allh erwthsh yparxei;

Sas eyxaristw.

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