Greek Government Press Briefing, 99-02-17

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From: The Hellenic Ministry of Press & Mass Media <http://www.minpress.gr/>

YPOYRGEIO TYPOY & MESWN MAZIKHS ENHMERWSHS

Aqhna, 17 Febroyarioy 1999

H ENHMERWSH TWN POLITIKWN SYNTAKTWN KAI TWN ANTAPOKRITWN JENOY TYPOY APO TON YPOYRGO TYPOY & MESWN MAZIKHS ENHMERWSHS KAI KYBERNHTIKO EKPROSWPO DHMHTRH REPPA

Geia sas.

* Logw ths katastashs ths ygeias toy Prwqypoyrgoy anaballontai oi synergasies poy eixan programmatistei gia shmera, alla kai oi ayrianes programmatismenes synanthseis toy me toys syntajioyxoys kai ekproswpoys mh kybernhtikwn organwsewn. Antiqetws qa synedriasoyn apo koinoy sto Megaro Majimoy, ayrio stis 11 to prwi, h Kybernhtikh Epitroph kai h Politikh Grammateia toy PASOK, prokeimenoy na syzhthqoyn qemata ths epikairothtas.

* Qa hqela na pw eisagwgikws oti o k. Pagkalos, sto plaisio twn armodiothtwn toy, askhse ta kaqhkonta toy kai enhrghse me tropo ypeyqyno kai me apokleistiko gnwmona to eqniko symferon. Askhse ta kaqhkonta toy sto plaisio ths politikhs poy exei apofasisei h kybernhsh kai yperaspisthke me ton kalytero tropo tis qeseis ths Elladas kai ta symferonta ths. O k. Pagkalos xeiristhke ena qema to opoio apotelei kai megalo problhma. Problhma to opoio den dhmioyrghse o idios, den dhmioyrghse h ellhnikh kybernhsh. Einai lyphro to fainomeno, metajy twn allwn, na kathgoreitai o Ypoyrgos twn Ejwterikwn apo kapoioys oi opoioi eixan symbolh sth dhmioyrgia aytoy toy problhmatos. H ellhnikh kybernhsh epanalambanei thn politikh poy exei ejaggeilei gia to koyrdiko qema. Kai oson afora tis aitiaseis oi opoies diatypwnontai apo diafores pleyres gia paraithsh toy k. Pagkaloy h kybernhsh qewrei oti den yparxei opoiosdhpote logos gia mia tetoia ejelijh. H kybernhsh ekfrasthke apo tis epiloges kai tis kinhseis toy k. Pagkaloy, o opoios enhrghse ws Ypoyrgos Ejwterikwn ths xwras. Einai kai qa einai Ypoyrgos Ejwterikwn.

Akoyw tis erwthseis sas.

STAMATOPOYLOS: Kyrie Ypoyrge, o k. Pagkalos xeiristhke monos toy to qema h kai alloi ypoyrgoi kai poioi;

REPPAS: Exw apanthsei se ayth thn erwthsh apo thn prohgoymenh ebdomada.

STAMATOPOYLOS: Ma, tote den eixe prokycei ayto to qema.

REPPAS: O k. Pagkalos ws Ypoyrgos Ejwterikwn eixe, kyriws, thn armodiothta na xeiristei ta qemata. Apo ekei kai pera eipa oti analoga me toys xeirismoys poy eprepe na ginoyn se epimeroys tomeis, oi synarmodioi ypoyrgoi eixan th dikh toys symmetoxh. Alla ayto poy exei shmasia einai h politikh qesh, oti h kybernhsh akoloyqhse thn politikh poy eixe ejaggeilei kai thn politikh ayth efarmose o k. Pagkalos kai opoioi alloi eixan anameijh oson afora to sygkekrimeno qema.

STAMATOPOYLOS: Sas rwthsa poioi einai aytoi, den moy apanthsate.

REPPAS: Bebaiws, exw apanthsei.

STAMATOPOYLOS: Den yphrxe to gegonos tote. Twra egine kai rwtw poios ton Paredwse. O k. Pagkalos anelabe thn eyqynh;

REPPAS: Gi` ayta ta qemata den prepei na xrhsimopoioyme lejeis poy den antapokrinontai sthn alhqeia. Syzhthsame xqes kai edwsa analytikes apanthseis. Apo ekei kai pera eipa -kai ayto einai poy exei shmasia- pws h kybernhsh exei mia politikh. Thn politikh thn efarmozoyn oi ypoyrgoi, o kaqenas sto diko toy tomea. O k. Pagkalos ws Ypoyrgos Ejwterikwn, eixe to kyrio baros twn xeirismwn sto qema ayto.

STAMATOPOYLOS: Eipate oti h kybernhsh den mporei na kathgoreitai apo kapoioys poy exoyn symballei sth dhmioyrgia aytoy toy problhmatos. Poioys ennoeite; Toys oktw boyleytes; Se aytoys anafereste;

REPPAS: Gnwrizete oti h ellhnikh kybernhsh exei ejaggeilei mia sygkekrimenh politikh. H politikh ayth apotelei thn epishmh politikh toy ellhnikoy kratoys. Dierwtatai kaneis poioi einai ekeinoi, ti epidiwkoyn, ti stoxoys exoyn otan qeloyn na epibaloyn th dikh toys qelhsh h th dikh toys qesh, epi ths epishmhs kratikhs politikhs -h opoia exei ejaggelqei kai einai safhs- me epizhmioys xeirismoys h me dhlwseis oi opoies dhmioyrgoyn kindynoys gia th xwra. Gi` aytoys poy kanoyn aytoys toys xeirismoys h aytes tis dhlwseis den mporei na pei kaneis oti exoyn qetikh symbolh sta pragmata. Antiqetws exoyn poly megalh eyqynh. Ayto prepei na einai safes. Epanalambanw oti den einai h kybernhsh kai o k. Pagkalos, epeidh polys logos ginetai gi` ayto, poy dhmioyrghsan ayto to qema. To qema dhmioyrghqhke epeidh epimonws o k. Otsalan kai oi synergates toy zhthsan na ginei apodekth h egkatastash toy sthn Ellada kai na toy xorhghqei, an qelete, mia estia monimhs filojenias, thn wra poy synantoyse pantoy kleistes portes. Sthn kateyqynsh ayth me to diko toys tropo kinhqhkan para polloi paragontes. Den mporw na toys anaferw giati einai arketoi. Asfalws, toys gnwrizete giati oi topoqethseis toys aytes exoyn ginei dhmosiws. Kai oi topoqethseis aytes htan se plhrh antiqesh me thn epishmh politikh toy ellhnikoy kratoys. Ara, loipon, qa prepei na analaboyn kapoioi tis eyqynes toys, doqentos oti h politikh poy eixe ejaggeilei h Kybernhsh qewroysame kai qewroyme oti antapokrinetai sta eqnika symferonta, enw antiqetws alles kinhseis, ejw apo to plaisio ayths ths ejaggelqeisas politikhs, einai kinhseis poy dhmioyrgoyn kindynoys kai yponomeyoyn ta symferonta ths xwras.

STAMATOPOYLOS: Kyrie Ypoyrge, einai safes to erwthma moy. Gia na leme ta pragmata me to onoma toys, poioi einai aytoi, peste mas merikoys gia na doyme poy to pate. Apo thn kybernhsh einai, apo thn antipoliteysh einai, apo poy einai;

REPPAS: Den perimena tetoies erwthseis, giati milhsa gia thn politikh ths kybernhshs, thn opoia efarmosan oi ypoyrgoi kai idiaitera o k. Pagkalos. Antilambaneste oti den mporei na einai melh ths kybernhshs. H apanthsh yparxei, hdh, sta osa eipa prin.

MELETHS: Kyrie Ypoyrge, hqela na rwthsw gi` ayth th qesh, gi` ayth thn politikh mh emplokhs sto koyrdiko poy opws lete eixe ejaggelqei edw kai poly kairo, pote kai poioi logoi epebalan sto na allajei ayth h qesh kai me poies diadikasies allaje ayth h qesh; Akomh poios exei thn eyqynh gia to oti afeqhkan anejelegktoi kai aneyqynoi paragontes, opws lete, na askhsoyn ejwterikh politikh kai na feroyn thn Ellada sth qesh poy thn eferan; Kapoios exei thn eyqynh gia to oti kapoioi askhsan ejwterikh politikh.

REPPAS: Thn politikh eyqynh thn exoyn ekeinoi, oi opoioi dhmioyrghsan ceydaisqhseis ston k. Otsalan kai toys synergates toy, me apotelesma na ton odhghsoyn se mia ejelijh h opoia htan dysmenestath. Oloi aytoi, opws kaqe allos poliths, exoyn to dikaiwma na lene thn apoch toys. Exw pei, kat` epanalhch, oti sthn Ellada den diwketai to fronhma kai yparxei plhrhs eleyqeria ekfrashs gnwmhs. Apo ekei kai pera, oson afora to prwto skelos ths erwthshs sas, opws anaferei kai o Prwqypoyrgos sth dhlwsh toy, opws epaneilhmmena exoyme pei kai edw, anqrwpistikoi logoi odhghsan sto na parasxeqei ayth h bohqeia ston k. Otsalan, otan zhthqhke, me thn taytoxronh epishmansh oti ayto den apotelei opoiadhpote allagh sthn askoymenh politikh, h opoia paramenei ayth poy ej arxhs eixe ejaggelqei. H politikh, loipon, poy ejaggeilame einai h politikh poy efarmozetai. Oson afora, toys anqrwpistikoys logoys poy mas odhghsan se aytoys toys xeirismoys apoteloysan mia parenqesh sto olo qema. Kai epeidh milhsa gia parenqesh, oi xeirismoi aytoi eixan ena sygkekrimeno xroniko orizonta. Htan ena mikro endiameso stadio mexri na epiteyxqei h egkatastash toy k. Otsalan se allh xwra, me th symfwnia ayths ths xwras. Otan kathgoreitai h kybernhsh gia to oti prospaqhse na dieykolynei na doqei epiteloys ena aisio telos sto qema ths egkatastashs toy k. Otsalan se xwra poy qa ton dexotan, pisteyoyme oti sthn kybernhsh askeitai adikh kritikh.

MELETHS: Sas rwthsa, epishs, an exoyn eyqynh oi yphresies toy kratoys kai h idia h kybernhsh giati epetraph se kapoioys na kinhqoyn anejelegkta.

REPPAS: An yparxoyn qemata poy aforoyn toys nomoys toy kratoys qa apasxolhsoyn tis armodies yphresies. Emeis edw kanoyme politikh syzhthsh kai sas lew oti o kaqenas ekfrazei th dikh toy apoch. Opws, loipon, zhtoyntai politikes eyqynes h askeitai politikh kritikh, mporw ki egw apo ayth th qesh na pw oti polloi me tis apoceis toys, oi opoies einai eqnika epizhmies, dhmioyrghsan ena problhma, to opoio klhqhke na xeiristei h kybernhsh kai o k. Pagkalos. Tonizw, omws, oti to problhma ayto eixe pleon dhmioyrghqei, xwris h kybernhsh kai o k. Pagkalos na exoyn opoiadhpote symmetoxh sth dhmioyrgia aytoy toy problhmatos.

LEONTOPOYLOS: Prin apo ligh wra sth synedriash ths Epitrophs Ejwterikwn Ypoqesewn ths Boylhs, o k. Mhtsotakhs eipe oti eixe thn plhroforia oti askeitai piesh apo tis kenyatikes arxes gia syllhch twn synergatwn toy Otsalan poy einai sthn presbeytikh katoikia sto Nairompi. Kat` arxhn epibebaiwnete ayth thn plhroforia kai an nai ti qa prajei h ellhnikh kybernhsh;

REPPAS: Prwta ap` ola o k. Otsalan synodeyotan apo synergates toy, apo atoma ta opoia eixan eggrafa allwn xwrwn kai oxi ths Elladas. Ta atoma ayta den briskontai ypo krathsh. Breqhkan sthn Kenya. Kapoioi, ej oswn plhroforoymaste kai gnwrizoyme, den einai pleon sthn Kenya. Kapoioi alloi einai akomh sthn Kenya kai sthn ellhnikh presbeia. Apo ekei kai pera den einai aixmalwtoi, oyte einai egkleistoi sthn ellhnikh presbeia. Pisteyw oti ayto to opoio ginetai einai h anazhthsh dromoy, prokeimenoy na fqasoyn se enan teliko proorismo ths epiloghs toys, me bash ta eggrafa ta opoia diaqetoyn.

PAPAXRHSTOS: Qelw na rwthsw, h dhlwsh poy kanate gia ton k. Pagkalo einai prwtoboylia dikh sas, einai prwtoboylia ths kybernhshs h apaithqhke apo ton k. Pagkalo;

REPPAS: Einai prwtoboylia dikh moy, sto plaisio ths kybernhtikhs politikhs kai ara einai prwtoboylia ths kybernhshs.

PAPAXRHSTOS: Mporeite na prosdiorisete ti shmainei gia thn kybernhsh o oros "filotimo kai ajioprepeia";

REPPAS: Filotimo kai ajioprepeia shmainei panw ap` ola na yperaspizesai thn Patrida soy kai na kaneis ta panta, wste na epityxei h patrida soy na einai synwnymh ths alhqeias, ths hqikhs kai toy dikaioy. Pisteyoyme oti h Ellada exei kanei se ayth thn kateyqynsh poly megala bhmata. Einai mia xwra h opoia jexwrizei se olo ton kosmo kai gi` aytes kai gia polles alles aretes kai gi` ayto oi opoies kathgories diatypwnontai einai pantelws asthriktes kai adikes.

KONTOPOYLOS: Poia einai h ellhnikh emplokh sto qema twn synergatwn toy k. Otsalan; Mesolabei h Ellada na pane kapoy alloy; Toys exei paradwsei stis arxes;

REPPAS: H ellhnikh kybernhsh gnwrize kai gnwrizei oti kapoioi htan mazi me ton k. Otsalan. Asfalws, gnwrize oti yparxoyn ayta ta proswpa kai gnwrizei ayta ta proswpa.

KONTOPOYLOS: Mporeite na mas peite poia einai h emplokh ths ellhnikhs kybernhshs sto qema; Exei kamia emplokh;

REPPAS: Se poio qema; Emplokh ws pros ti;

KONTOPOYLOS: Twn synergatwn toy Otsalan poy briskontai sthn Kenya.

REPPAS: H emplokh h dikh mas exei sxesh me to endiaferon na tajideysoyn opoy ekeinoi epilejoyn. Ara, emeis -sto plaisio twn nomimwn dynatothtwn poy diaqetoyme- opws toys dwsame filojenia gia kapoies hmeres...

DHMOSIOGRAFOS: Gia poio logo toys dwsate filojenia;

REPPAS:... gia ton idio logo poy dwsame filojenia ston Koyrdo hgeth. Gia ton idio akribws logo. Htan synergates, oi opoioi toy symparastekontai. Einai aytoi toys opoioys o k. Otsalan qewroyse oti eprepe na exei mazi toy.

KONTOPOYLOS: Aytoi, dhladh, twra briskontai sthn Kenya;

REPPAS: Kapoioi mporei, ayth thn wra poy syzhtoyme, na exoyn apomeinei mesa sthn presbeia, kapoioi mporei na einai se dhmosioys xwroys, ektos presbeias, kapoioi mporei na exoyn tajideysei kiolas.

DHMOSIOGRAFOS: Ma, gia posoys milame;

REPPAS: Gia enan poly mikro ariqmo politwn, poy -epanalambanw- den einai aixmalwtoi kai den briskontai ypo periorismo. An, dhladh, opoiosdhpote ej aytwn epiqymei na metakinhqei apo thn presbeia, mporei na to kanei aytoboylws. Oydeis toy epiballei periorismoys, doqentos oti diaqetoyn tajidiwtika eggrafa, diabathria -oxi ellhnika, alloy kratoys- me ta opoia mporoyn na kinhqoyn.

KONTOPOYLOS: Yparxei, epishs, mia fhmologia oti paraiteitai h skeftetai na paraithqei h ypebale thn paraithsh toy o Arxhgos ths EYP. Yparxei qema paraithshs toy k. Stayrakakh;

REPPAS: Den gnwrizw na yparxei tetoio qema. Den yparxei tetoio qema.

DHMOSIOGRAFOS: Yparxei aithma apo thn kenyatikh kybernhsh h apo allh kybernhsh gia paradosh aytwn twn anqrwpwn poy exoyn jemeinei, an exoyn jemeinei;

REPPAS: Den exei diatypwqei mexri ayth th stigmh tetoio aithma. Kai bebaiws ayta ta opoia akoysthkan oti qa epixeirhqei isws mia efodos sthn presbeia, ayta antilambaneste oti einai yperbolika, doqentos oti den exoyn kamia sxesh me toys kanones oi opoioi epikratoyn sth leitoyrgia twn diplwmatikwn apostolwn. H ellhnikh presbeia einai ellhniko edafos. Antilambaneste, loipon, oti einai ektos topoy kai xronoy tetoioy eidoys ypoqeseis, oi opoies eidan kai aytes to fws ths dhmosiothtas shmera.

KIAOS: Sthn presbeia sto Nairompi, ayth th stigmh, an gnwrizete, poioi kai posoi briskontai;

REPPAS: Ayth thn wra poy syzhtoyme;

KIAOS: Mia-dyo wres prin na erqete sto briefing.

REPPAS: Pragmatika den gnwrizw posoi anqrwpoi briskontai kai poioi einai. An qelete, den gnwrizw kai to mikro onoma toy presbh sto Nairompi. Sygxwreiste me gi ayto, alla den gnwrizw ta onomata kai ton ariqmo aytwn poy briskontai twra ekei.

KIAOS: O presbeyths mas poy brisketai ayth th stigmh;

REPPAS: Sto Nairompi.

DHMOSIOGRAFOS: Afoy anaklhqhke....

REPPAS: Bebaiws, anaklhqhke kai h epistrofh toy sthn Aqhna qa ginei tis epomenes hmeres. Yparxei enas kyklos energeiwn, diadikasiwn kai otan oloklhrwqei se liges hmeres qa epistrecei

KIAOS: Proxqes, phge mazi me ton Otsalan mexri to aeroplano, opws metadoqhke;

REPPAS: O presbhs symmeteixe sthn pomph, h opoia dhmioyrghqhke apo aytokinhta, sthn opoia htan kai to aytokinhto poy metefere ton Ampntoylax Otsalan. To aytokinhto ayto, opws eipame, kapoia stigmh jekoce kai ektote agnoeitai h tyxh toy aytokinhtoy. Gnwrizoyme, pleon, poia einai dystyxws h tyxh toy Ampntoylax Otsalan. Oi plhrofories poy exoyn doqei einai se ayto to shmeio.

KIAOS: Epikoinwnhse xqes, kata th diarkeia ths hmeras, me to ypoyrgeio Ejwterikwn kai ekane mia leptomerh perigrafh, pio aneta, pio hrema, toy ti synebh ki an mporeite na mas th metaferete;

REPPAS: Oi syzhthseis aytes, me thn anesh thn opoia epiqymeite, qa ginoyn otan epistrecei sthn Aqhna. Oi mexri twra syzhthseis ginontai mesw thlefwnikwn diktywn. Einai syzhthseis, bebaiws, gia na exoyme mia plhrh eikona toy ti akribws egine, pws ejelixqhkan ta pragmata. Prepei, omws, na sas pw oti yparxoyn kai texnikes dyskolies.

KIAOS: Prohgoymenws eipate "polloi me apoceis politika epizhmies". Poioi einai aytoi;

REPPAS: Apanthsa se sxetikh erwthsh.

KIAOS: Oxi, den apanthsate.

REPPAS: Ayth einai h apoch sas. Eipa oti den mporw na anaferw onomata, doqentos oti einai polloi aytoi poy exoyn ekfrasei aytes tis apoceis.

KIAOS: Perilambanete se aytoys ton k. Karamanlh...

REPPAS: Exw apanthsei se ayto.

KIAOS: O k. Karamanlhs, h k. Paparhga, o k. Kwnstantopoylos, o k. Tsobolas, poy milhsan xqes sth Boylh, einai politikoi me apoceis politika epizhmies gia ton topo;

REPPAS: Oi politikoi arxhgoi elaban apanthsh apo ton ypoyrgo Ejwterikwn. Oi apanthseis aytes, loipon, einai apanthseis poy edwse h kybernhsh kai isxyoyn apolytws.

KIAOS: Otan milhsate prohgoymenws gia kapoioys poy den akoloyqoyn kai ofeiloyn na akoloyqoyn thn politikh poy xaraje h kybernhsh, anafereste sto xwro toy PASOK h genikotera;

REPPAS: Den eipa tetoio pragma. Mhn diastreblwnete ayta poy lew. Den einai h prwth fora poy to kanete eseis kai alloi synadelfoi sas. Den eipa ayto to pragma.

KIAOS: Lypamai para poly. Den exw diastreblwsei tipota. Mporei na paranohsa.

REPPAS: Afhste parakalw kai se emena na exw mia allh apoch. Eseis krathste th dikh sas apoch kai egw na krathsw th dikh moy. Einai qema alhqeias.....

KIAOS: Den einai qema apochs, emeis kanoyme th doyleia mas.

REPPAS: Einai qema alhqeias. Makari na kaname oloi th doyleia mas oso kala prepei na thn kanoyme.

KIAOS: Sas erwtw: Oi ths antipoliteysews einai ypoxrewmenoi na akoloyqoyn thn politikh ths kybernhsews;

REPPAS: Asfalws, oxi. Kaqenas poliths se ayth th xwra -eipa- mporei na exei thn apoch toy, akomh kai an chfizei PASOK. Poso mallon gia ta melh twn kommatwn ths antipoliteyshs. Kai eipa, akomh, oti to fronhma kai oi apoceis diadidontai eleyqera kai den diwkontai sthn Ellada. Pws eseis, loipon, bgazete ayto to symperasma, me thn erwthsh sas;

KIAOS: Den ebgala symperasma, erwtw.

REPPAS: Ta exw apanthsei ayta ta qemata.

KIAOS: Erwtw: Anafereste sta stelexh toy PASOK poy zhtoyn thn paraithsh eite toy k. Pagkaloy, eite kai ths kybernhsews;

REPPAS: Anaferomai se oloys ekeinoys, oi opoioi qewrhsan oti eprepe se antiqesh me ta osa exei ejaggeilei h kybernhsh, antiqetws me thn politikh poy efarmozei h Kybernhsh sto sygkekrimeno zhthma, qewrhsan skopimo na askoyn pieseis h me diaforoys tropoys na symballoyn, wste o k. Otsalan na zhta th lysh toy problhmatos toy sthn Ellada kai mono sthn Ellada. Anaferomai se oloys aytoys kai eimai safhs.

KIAOS: Aytoi oi "oloi" mporeite na prosdiorisete, poy briskontai; Einai sta kommata ths antipoliteyshs...;

REPPAS: H kybernhsh mas den synhqizei na elegxei ta fronhmata olwn ekeinwn -politikwn paragontwn, dikhgorwn, politwn, ekproswpwn diaforwn forewn- poy diatypwnoyn aytes tis apoceis, se diafores sygkentrwseis, se ekdhlwseis, se radiothleoptika programmata. Den gnwrizoyme ti chfizoyn oloi aytoi.

KIAOS: Den anafereste se politikoys;

REPPAS: Anaferomai se oloys ekeinoys poy ejefrasan tetoies apoceis kai eixan mia tetoia symperifora. Eimai para poly safhs.

KIAOS: Sas parakalw, mporeite na mas peite, h EYP kinhqhke me entoles ths kybernhsews, sthn prokeimenh periptwsh h klimakia ths EYP kinhqhkan ejw apo entoles toy Arxhgoy;

REPPAS: Gnwrizete poly kala oti h EYP einai mia kratikh yphresia poy exei ena poly eyaisqhto antikeimeno. Asfalws, kineitai meta apo entoles, oi opoies didonta armodiws.

KIAOS: Oi Koyrdoi, toys opoioys kratoyn sth Genikh Asfaleia Aqhnwn, giati synelhfqhsan nyxta akoma, xqes to prwi, prin na jhmerwsei kai giati toys kratoyn xwris kanena sygkekrimeno stoixeio, xwris na exei apaggelqei kamia kathgoria kai giati den toys epetrecan na paroyn oyte kan ta farmaka toys apo ta spitia toys; Kai malista, giati toys kratoyn apo th stigmh poy exoyn nomima eggrafa, einai nomimh h paroysia toys edw;

REPPAS: Me to qema ayto asxoloyntai oi armodies yphresies. Oi armodies yphresies exoyn logo na ejetazoyn kai na elegxoyn an polites se ayth th xwra exoyn ta nomimopoihtika eggrafa, prokeimenoy na zoyn, na ergazontai na anaptyssoyn drasthriothta sth xwra mas. Oi elegxoi aytoi einai epibeblhmenoi. To leei o nomos. Pisteyw oti ayto antapokrinetai kai stis epiqymies toy ellhnikoy laoy. Yparxei enas elegxos, ana pasa stigmh, gia to poioi zoyn se ayth th xwra kai malista, elegxos gi aytoys poy proerxontai apo alles xwres. Kai prepei na sas pw oti para polloi den diaqetoyn analoga eggrafa. Den prepei ayta na ta elegjoyn oi armodies yphresies; Afhste ayth thn epiqetikh stash, h opoia deixnei mia prokatalhch syxna pros thn kybernhsh Kai to lew ayto, giati ta problhmata, ta opoia xeirizetai h kybernhsh, exoyn polles pleyres kai ptyxes, tis opoies, se qewrhtiko epipedo, den mporei kan na tis syllabei o anqrwpinos noys. Sthn prajh, omws, prokyptoyn. Kai -me lyph- anaferw ena paradeigma. Jerete oti para polloi -eleyqeroi htan allwste, dikaiwma toys htan- apo toys Koyrdoys poy eixan metaferqei se ena prwhn stratopedo, to egkateleican. Oi ypoloipoi kai poly ligoteroi metaferqhkan stis egkatastaseis toy Eryqroy Stayroy ston Agio Andrea, opoy apo kairo einai egkatesthmenoi alloi Koyrdoi, stoys opoioys parexetai frontida kai kaqe dynath bohqeia. An sas pw oti oi Koyrdoi poy exoyn egkatastaqei edw kai kairo ekei, antidroyn gia thn eleysh ths neas omadas Koyrdwn, poy metaferqhke ekei. ti qa peite;

KIAOS: Wraia...

REPPAS: "Wraia" qa peite;

KIAOS: Oxi. Rwtame kai apantate.

REPPAS: Eseis qa rwtate opws qelete kai egw qa apantw opws nomizw.

KIAOS: Apo kei kai pera...

REPPAS: Ta sxolia einai dika sas. Egw den exw allh dynatothta, eseis exete dynatothta, giati eseis eiste aytoi poy sta radiofwna, tis thleoraseis kai tis efhmerides, qa kanete to sxoliasmo sas.

KIAOS: Mhn katalogizete prokatabolika qeseis me tis erwthseis.

REPPAS: Oxi, k. Kiao. Apla anaferw ena paradeigma, gia na deite poso megalh apostash yparxei apo to na syzhtoyme qewrhtika kai apo apostash ta qemata, mexri to na xeirizomaste qemata, me synepeies oi opoies prokyptoyn kai einai aprobleptes.

KIAOS: Egw sas rwthsa sygkekrimena: Oi Koyrdoi poy einai sthn Asfaleia, einai 16, exoyn nomimopoihtika eggrafa, kaqara. Toys kratate akoma. Qa toys apelasete h qa bgoyn ejw; Tipote allo.

REPPAS: Gia ta qemata ayta -opws eipa kai prin, opws eipa kai xqes- qa apofasisoyn oi armodies yphresies.

EYSTAQIOY: Se sxesh me ayto poy eipate, apodidontas politikes eyqynes se kapoioys, poy me tis epizhmies qeseis toys yponomeyoyn ta symferonta ths xwras. Aytoi dhmioyrghsan, opws shmeiwsa toylaxiston, ceydaisqhseis ston Otsalan kai toys synergates toy. Qewreite, metajy allwn, gia paradeigma, ton k. Najakh h to Dioikhth ths EYP;

REPPAS: Ej oswn gnwrizw, o Arxhgos ths EYP, epeidh einai kratikos leitoyrgos, den kalese ton k. Otsalan sthn Ellada. Gia ta alla qemata, exw apanthsei.

EYSTAQIOY: Anamesa se aytoys me tis politika epizhmies apoceis, qewreite kai toys 186 boyleytes poy eixan synypogracei keimeno kalwntas ton Otsalan na erqei sthn Ellada, metajy twn opoiwn kai kapoioi yperanw kaqe ypocias, opws o stenos filos sas, o k. Stefanos Manikas;

REPPAS: Gia to qema ayto eixa apanthsei otan htan sthn epikairothta kai eixa dexqei sxetikes erwthseis.

EYSTAQIOY: Poia einai h qesh ths kybernhshs sto aithma poy ypebalan boyleytes toy PASOK kai ton SYNASPISMO gia Ejetastikh Epitroph, poy qa diereynhsei ta aitia ths metaforas toy Otsalan sthn Kenya kai ths metaforas toy katopin sthn Toyrkia;

REPPAS: Den antimetwpizei tetoio qema h kybernhsh, doqentos oti kata thn kybernhsh, den prokyptei anagkh systashs tetoias epitrophs.

EYSTAQIOY: Otan to aeroplano poy metefere ton Otsalan, ekane to tajidi Aqhna-Nairompi, eixan enhmerwqei oi armodies arxes, eixan akoloyqhqei oi nomimes diadikasies; Gnwrizan sthn Kenya oti yparxei ena aeroplano, sto opoio epebaine kai o Otsalan;

REPPAS: Epeidh akribws gnwrizw oti h pthsh den htan Aqhna-Nairompi, den exw logo na apanthsw sthn erwthsh sas. Mporw na pw, omws, genikws, oti den yparxei logos na parameinoyme sthn ejistorhsh twn gegonotwn, ta opoia, allwste, prepei na sas pw oti kai egw kai oloi isws den gnwrizoyn sthn akraia leptomereia toys. Yparxoyn plhrofories, alla den prepei, na afeqoyme mesa se ayth thn plhqwra twn plhroforiwn, giati dhmioyrgeitai mia sygxysh, enas faylos kyklos, dhladh, apo ton opoio den mporoyme na bgoyme pia.

EYSTAQIOY: Xqes o k. Giannopoylos, milwntas sto deltio toy SKAt gi` ayto to qema -kai to lew meta bebaiothtas, giati to akoysa me t` aytia moy- eipe oti "ta gnwrizame ola kai gia th Nea Makrh kai gia th filh moy thn Boyla gnwrizame". Eseis, omws -kai an kanw laqos kapoy sygxwreste me- eipate oti den gnwrizate tipota, gi` ayto to diasthma paramonhs toy Otsalan sthn Ellada, ws kybernhsh. Ti apo ta dyo synebh;

REPPAS: Gi` ayto apanthsame, xqes. Kai o k. Pagkalos ki egw.

EYSTAQIOY: Nai, alla thn idia wra, omws, enas ypoyrgos kai oxi opoios-opoios...

REPPAS: Apanthsame tis prohgoymenes hmeres. Alla kai me prohgoymenh epishmansh moy, oti ayth h syzhthsh odhgei sth synthrhsh ths sygxyshs kai kalo einai na thn apofygoyme, pisteyw oti edwsa apanthsh.

SOYGLERHS: Kyrie Ypoyrge, 24 wres meta, qelw na rwthsw, qelw to sxolio sas, an ayta ta aneyqyna proswpa poy eferan, me tis energeies toys, ton Otsalan sthn Ellada, poso zhmia ekanan se politiko dieqnes epipedo gia thn ellhnikh kybernhsh;

REPPAS: H kritikh poy askeitai einai politikh kritikh, h apodokimasia poy ekfrazetai einai politikh apodokimasia. O katamerismos eyqynwn ginetai sto plaisio ths politikhs antiparaqeshs kai o ellhnikos laos krinei toys politikoys kai toys paragontes ths dhmosias zwhs ths xwras.

MPOGIOPOYLOS: Apeyqynate barytates kathgories gia prajeis oi opoies dhmioyrghsan problhma sto eqniko symferon. Kai oxi gia fronhma, oyte gia tipota allo, gia prajeis. Qa lhfqoyn metra gi` aytoys oi opoioi proebhsan se aytes tis prajeis;

REPPAS: Apanthsa se ayto prin. Eipa oti otan yparxei parabiash nomwn, oi armodies arxes qa prepei na epilhfqoyn. Ayto den einai qema diko mas.

MPOGIOPOYLOS: Qa hqela na jerw apo pote diamorfwqhke ws epishmh politikh qesh toy ellhnikoy kratoys, oti o agwnas twn Koyrdwn gia thn apokthsh patridas synista aposxistiko kinhma, opws anaferqhke se mia anakoinwsh toy Prwqypoyrgoy.

REPPAS: H Ellada exei pei oti einai yper ths diathrhshs twn shmerinwn synorwn. Ayth h qesh einai mia pagia qesh ths ejwterikhs politikhs mas, thn opoia kat` epanalhch exoyme diatypwsei. Den exei ekfrastei gia prwth fora kai den pisteyw na yparxei kapoios sthn Ellada me allh apoch. An yparxei, parakalw, na thn pei eyqews kai eyqarsws, na thn apeyqynei ston ellhniko lao kai na zhthsei thn egkrish toy: oti "emeis zhtoyme thn allagh twn synorwn sthn perioxh". Mexri twra, pantws, den exei breqei kapoios. Ara, loipon, h qesh ayth ekfrazei to synolo toy ellhnikoy laoy kai twn politikwn kommatwn.

MPOGIOPOYLOS: Syggnwmh, epeidh milate ej onomatos toy ellhnikoy laoy...

REPPAS: Lew, loipon, ki egw oti ekfrazei to synolo toy ellhnikoy laoy kai twn politikwn kommatwn ths xwras. Den gnwrizw politiko komma na exei kataqesei mia allh apoch. An einai etsi diaceyste me.

MPOGIOPOYLOS: Milate ej onomatos toy ellhnikoy laoy wsan na gnwrizete apolytws kai na eiste o ayqentikos gnwsths twn qesewn toy. Ki egw apantw: Gnwrizete oti o ellhnikos laos, epaneilhmmenws kai me diaforoys tropoys, exei ekdhlwqei yper toy dikaiwmatos twn Koyrdwn na exoyn patrida; Den to gnwrizete ayto;

REPPAS: Gnwrizete oti h ellhnikh kybernhsh exei prwtostathsei, kat` epanalhch, sto qema toy sebasmoy toy dikaiwmatos twn Koyrdwn ston eqniko toys aytokaqorismo. To exoyme pei epishmws kai se dhlwsh poy exoyme ekdwsei palaiotera. Kai gnwrizete oti exoyme analabei prwtoboylies -kai synexizoyme na analambanoyme- prokeimenoy na ginoyn sebasta ta dikaiwmata toy koyrdikoy laoy. Kata ta alla, epanalambanw, oti diaforetikh qesh apo ayth poy exei symperilabei sth dhlwsh toy o Prwqypoyrgos, apo ayth poy einai kai qesh ths kybernhshs, den gnwrizw na exei diatypwsei o opoiosdhpote. Kai sas kalw na moy peite kapoion, an ontws yparxei.

MPOGIOPOYLOS: Katalaba kala oti h kybernhsh qewrei oti den tiqetai qema plhmmeloys elegxoy stis drasthriothtes ths EYP ek meroys twn kybernhtikwn organwn, ta opoia epopteyoyn thn Yphresia;

REPPAS: Ta qemata ths apotelesmatikhs leitoyrgias twn kratikwn yphresiwn, apasxoloyn toys politikoys proistamenoys, toys armodioys paragontes. Einai qemata eswterikwn diadikasiwn. Bebaiws, yparxei mia diabaqmish apo yphresia se yphresia, analogws toy antikeimenoy. Nomizw oti sth sygkekrimenh periptwsh, an yparxei qema, einai qema to opoio apasxolei ton armodio ypoyrgo kai toys epikefalhs ayths ths yphresias. Den einai qema to opoio qa antimetwpisoyme kai qa lysoyme me mia dhmosia syzhthsh.

MPOGIOPOYLOS: Qa hqela na gnwrizw, ean h kybernhsh qewrei oti exei kai an analambanei eyqynh gia thn asfaleia twn anqrwpwn, osoi apo aytoys briskontai sthn ellhnikh presbeia sthn Kenya.

REPPAS: Einai kati to opoio brisketai sto epikentro toy endiaferontos ths kybernhshs kai twn diplwmatikwn arxwn ekei. Alla, bebaiws -epanalambanw- den einai egkleistoi, den einai omhroi, oi eyriskomenoi gia mia periodo sthn ellhnikh presbeia. Sas lew, malista, oti -ej oswn gnwrizw- kapoioi exoyn hdh anaxwrhsei apo thn Kenya kai kapoioi alloi kinoyntai stoys dhmosioys xwroys. Oloi kinhqhkan stoys dhmosioys xwroys, giati diaqetoyn eggrafa ta opoia toys dinoyn ayth th dynatothta.

KARASABBA: H ellhnikh kybernhsh pisteyei oti qa diejaxqei mia dikaih dikh toy Otsalan sthn Toyrkia;

REPPAS: Exoyme polles epifylajeis. H mexri twra empeiria den apotelei thn kalyterh proypoqesh, thn kalyterh eggyhsh. Gi` ayto akribws, h ellhnikh kybernhsh exei diatypwsei -kai thn epanelabe xqes- th qesh na paraxwrhqoyn eggyhseis ston A. Otsalan, na diejaxqei mia dikaih dikh, prokeimenoy na toy doqei h dynatothta na yperaspistei ton eayto toy, opws symbainei se oles tis prohgmenes nomika kai politika xwres. Einai qetiko stoixeio to gegonos oti para polles xwres ths E. E., me dhlwseis armodiwn paragontwn gia to qema ayto, exoyn diatypwsei qeseis, oi opoies einai paraplhsies, kinoyntai se ayto to epipedo. Zhtoyn apo thn Toyrkia na diasfalisei ta dikaiwmata toy A. Otsalan kai na proxwrhsei se mia dikaih kai antikeimenikh dikh, apo anejarthta dikastika organa. Exoyn ginei dhlwseis sthn kateyqynsh ayth, apo para polles xwres, opws einai -gia na anaferw orismenes- h Germania, h Italia, h Gallia, h Elbetia, h Aystria, h Ollandia, h Ispania, h Kypros. Antilambaneste, opws eipa xqes, oti exei proklhqei ena megalo endiaferon. Parakoloyqei, dhladh, o dieqnhs paragontas to pws ejelissetai h krathsh toy A. Otsalan sthn Toyrkia kai bebaiws, to endiaferon ayto qa koryfwnetai kaqws qa erxetai h wra na diejaxqei h dikh.

KARASABBA: Kai mia dieykrinish gia to qema twn tessarwn Koyrdwn poy briskontai sthn Kenya: Oi dyo apo aytoys, ap` oti exoyme maqei, den exoyn kan diabathrio, h mia exei belgiko kai h allh elbetiko. Epibebaiwnete h diaceydete thn plhroforia oti o k. Pagkalos exei dwsei entolh na doqoyn ta katallhla ellhnika eggrafa gia na metaboyn oi tesseris, opoy qeloyn;

REPPAS: Den gnwrizw ayth th leptomereia. Gnwrizw oti briskontai ekei kai kinoyntai me eggrafa ta opoia diaqetoyn. Pisteyw oti exoyn eggrafa.

KARASABBA: Egrafa ta opoia toys exoyn doqei apo poion;

REPPAS: Den mporw na gnwrizw poqen diaqetoyn ayta ta eggrafa. Pantws, den einai eggrafa poy toys exoyn doqei apo tis ellhnikes arxes. Ta dieqetan ta eggrafa ayta.

KARASABBA: Prin to olo epeisodio me ton Otsalan, yphrxe mia eidhsh oti stamathsan oi arxes ths Kenyas treis ajiwmatoyxoys -symfwna me plhrofories- ths Ellhnikhs Kratikhs Yphresias kai den toys epetrecan na fygoyn, na epistecoyn sthn Ellada. Poy briskontai aytoi oi ajiwmatoyxoi, exoyn epistrecei sthn Ellada kai an exoyn syllhfqei.

REPPAS: Gnwrizw kai eimai kathgorhmatikos oti oydeis exei syllhfqei, oydeis einai kratoymenos apo tis arxes ths Kenyas. Gnwrizw oti, an oxi oloi, oi perissoteroi exoyn epistrecei sthn Ellada. Tis texnikes leptomereies den tis gnwrizw kai parakalw na apeyqynqeite sto Ypoyrgeio Ejwterikwn. Gnwrizw, omws, oti oi perissoteroi, an oxi oloi, exoyn epistrecei.

SARANTAKOS: Pera apo thn ekfrash twn epifylajewn sas gia to an qa yparjei mia dikaih dikh gia ton A. Otsalan sthn Toyrkia, yparxei periptwsh h ellhnikh kybernhsh na analabei kapoia, sygkekrimenh praktika, prwtoboylia, wste estw na piesei tis toyrkikes arxes gia na kanoyn mia ajiopisth nomikh diadikasia;

REPPAS: H ellhnikh kybernhsh qa qesei to qema ayto sto epikeimeno Symboylio Genikwn Ypoqesewn, th Deytera, opoy qa ekproswphqei apo ton Ypoyrgo Anaplhrwth Ejwterikwn k. G. Papandreoy. Einai kai ayto sto plaisio twn prwtoboyliwn poy exoyme analabei kai qa synexisoyme na analambanoyme gia thn antimetwpish genikotera toy koyrdikoy zhthmatos, alla kai twn epimeroys qematwn poy prokyptoyn, me idiaiterh emfash sto qema poy afora thn tyxh kai th dikh toy A. Otsalan.

SARANTAKOS: Ejetazetai to endexomeno sthn ayrianh synedriash, sto plaisio ths Kybernhtikhs Epitrophs kai ths Politikhs Grammateias toy PASOK, na yparjei politikh apodokimasia dhlwsewn stelexwn toy PASOK, opws einai o k. Khpoyros, opws einai o k. Xaralampidhs, oi opoioi, oyte ligo, oyte poly, eipan anikanh thn kybernhsh.

REPPAS: Den mporw na milhsw gia to apotelesma kai thn ekbash mias synedriashs prin kan arxisei.

KOYROYNIS: Qa parei kapoia metra h kybernhsh kata twn boyleytwn toy kybernwntos kommatos, poy zhthsan na paraithqei o k. Pagkalos;

REPPAS: Ayta einai qemata ta opoia qa ta antimetwpisoyn ta organa toy Kinhmatos, efoson krinoyn oti prepei na toys apasxolhsei ena tetoio qema. Ayth thn wra den yparxei opoiadhpote apofash kai m` ayth thn ennoia den exw ki egw na pw kati sygkekrimeno.

PAPADOPOYLOS: Eipate prohgoymenws oti to qema toy Otsalan to dhmioyrghsan orismenoi -den mas endiaferoyn ta onomata- kai kapoia stigmh anelabe h kybernhsh na dwsei lysh. Nomizete oti yparxei elleimma kybernhtikhs eyqynhs se ayto; Kai to deytero: An ola eginan, opws lete eseis, me bash to eqniko symferon, poio qa einai to kerdos ths xwras mas h poio qa einai to antallagma apo thn paradosh toy Otsalan sthn Toyrkia;

REPPAS: Prwta ap` ola kanete dyo paradoxes, oi opoies den me briskoyn symfwno. Milate gia "paradosh", pragma to opoio den antapokrinetai sthn alhqeia. H ejelijh ayth htan ejw apo th dikh mas epilogh kai tis epidiwjeis mas. Eixame ekfrasei, opws eipe o k. Pagkalos, tis amfibolies mas kai ston idio ton k. Otsalan gia to an einai dynaton na eggyhqoyn oi arxes ths Kenyas th metabash toy sthn Ollandia, opws o idios pisteye. Kata ta alla, qema eyqynhs ths kybernhshs, etsi opws to qetete, asfalws den yparxei.

PAPADOPOYLOS: Den einai eyqynh ths kybernhshs ayta ta eqnika qemata; Pws afhsate alloys na paroyn prwtoboylies tetoies, wste na dhmioyrghqei h entypwsh oti o Otsalan mporei na erqei edw; Ekei einai to elleimma ths kybernhshs.

REPPAS: Eseis pisteyete, loipon...

PAPADOPOYLOS: Den pisteyw, erwtw.

REPPAS:... oti enw emeis me kaqe tropo diatypwname th qesh mas, qa eprepe na fimwsoyme h na ejorisoyme apo thn Ellada, gia na mhn akoygetai h fwnh toys, oloys ekeinoys oi opoioi eixan mia diaforetikh apoch h oloys ekeinoys oi opoioi s` ayth th diaforetikh apoch prospaqhsan na dwsoyn kai mia praktikh morfh. Gnwrizete poly kala oti eklhqh h ellhnikh kybernhsh na xeiristei ena qema, otan eixe hdh dhmioyrghqei. Kai ayto einai kati para poly shmantiko. Oi xeirismoi...

PAPADOPOYLOS: Akoloyqhsate, epomenws, ta gegonota;

REPPAS: Oi xeirismoi poy kaneis, otan prepei na antimetwpiseis to problhma, einai poly sygkekrimenoi. Den exei aperioristes epiloges. Otan p. x. prepei na antimetwpiseis ena tetoio qema, den exeis polla pragmata na kaneis.

PAPADOPOYLOS: En telei, h kybernhsh einai ikanopoihmenh apo olh ayth thn istoria; Einai yper twn eqnikwn mas symferontwn ayth h ejelijh; Noiwqei ikanopoihsh kai yperhfaneia;

REPPAS: H kybernhsh den einai ikanopoihmenh, giati o A. Otsalan brisketai sta xeria ths Toyrkias. H kybernhsh ekane oti htan dynaton, prokeimenoy na proaspisei ta eqnika symferonta. Xeiristhke ena para poly dyskolo qema kai to xeiristhke me tetoio tropo, wste na mhn prokycoyn zhmies se eqniko epipedo, pragma to opoio qa synebaine, an akoloyqoyse th syntagh politikhs poy kapoioi alloi eixan proteinei h kapoioi alloi, mesw twn dhlwsewn toys, ypedeiknyan sthn ellhnikh kybernhsh.

FILHS: Apo thn Oyasigkton, o antapokriths toy FLASH, o k. Papantwnioy, metedwse xqes, oti sto briefing toy State Department o ekproswpos toy, erwthqeis ean elaban meros sthn epixeirhsh apagwghs toy Otsalan apo thn ellhnikh presbeia h gia thn apomakrynsh toy apo thn ellhnikh presbeia, dynameis Amerikanwn pezonaytwn, an perikyklwsan thn ellhnikh presbeia aphnthse: "Den epibebaiwnw, oyte diaceydw". Ti gnwrizete gi` ayto;

REPPAS: Egw gnwrizw oti o k. Otsalan proxwrhse se synennohseis me tis arxes ths Kenya prokeimenoy na ton prowqhsoyn sth xwra ths epiloghs toy, thn Ollandia. Apo ekei kai pera, metebh perpatwntas kapoia metra sto aytokinhto poy ton metefere, to opoio jekoce apo thn pomph me apotelesma na mhn exoyme apo to shmeio ekeino kai meta kaqarh eikona gia to pws ejelixqhkan ta pragmata. Den egine otidhpote allo to opoio na odhgei sto symperasma pws yphrje mia epafh, mia synennohsh, enas syntonismos metajy yphresiwn allhs xwras, ektos ths Kenyas, me tis ellhnikes arxes, prokeimenoy na prowqhqei ayth h epixeirhsh.

FILHS: Den rwthsa an epikoinwnhsan oi ellhnikes yphresies. Sas rwthsa, an katalaban oi dikoi mas ypallhloi, oti eixe perikyklwqei h ellhnikh presbeia apo amerikanoys pezonaytes.

REPPAS: Einai kati poy den gnwrizw, an stoys dhmosioys xwroys toy kratoys ths Kenyas kinoyntan ekproswpoi yphresiwn allwn xwrwn. Ayto qa prepei na to gnwrizoyn oi arxes ths Kenyas. An, dhladh, synebh kati tetoio den to gnwrizw, opws den gnwrizw an ypepese sthn antilhch toy presbh h allwn paragontwn ths ellhnikhs presbeias, efoson synebh.

FILHS: Oi New York Times shmera grafoyn oti o entopismos toy Otsalan sthn presbeia mas egine, epeidh xrhsimopoihse ena kinhto thlefwno, apo praktora toy FBI. Den prokyptei ena qema eyqynhs gia thn ellhnikh pleyra, otan me dikh mas eyqynh, sto diko mas edafos, dinetai h dynatothta ston Otsalan na xrhsimopoiei kinhto thlefwno; Aytos einai mystika ekei. Den elegxontai, synepws, oles oi kinhseis toy;

REPPAS: Qa meinw sthn apanthsh poy edwsa xqes. Milhsa dyo fores gia to qema ayto. eipa xqes oti o idios o k. Otsalan den prostateyse arketa ton eayto toy.

FILHS: Ma, o k. Otsalan htan kratoymenos sthn presbeia, kyrie Ypoyrge kai me dikh mas eyqynh. Mporoyse na kanei oti qelei; Ayto einai to epityxes ergo ths E. Y. P., ths ellhnikhs kybernhshs; Exoyme se mystikh apostolh enan anqrwpo sthn Kenya kai ton afhnoyme na kanei oti qelei; Edw den prokyptoyn eyqynes;

REPPAS: Kyrie Filh, as dexqoyme -eseis na dexqeite, poy isws den to dexeste- gia thn oikonomia ths syzhthshs oti h ellhnikh kybernhsh epemene apeyqynomenh ston k. Otsalan na mhn dexqei ayth th mesolabhsh twn arxwn ths Kenyas kai para tayta o k. Otsalan parakoyse me apotelesma ayth th dysmenh katalhjh. Se ayth thn periptwsh eseis eiste etoimos na katadikasete ton Ampntoylax Otsalan, epeidh den akoyse ayto poy toy eipe h ellhnikh kybernhsh kai to opoio fainotan syneto, logiko, epeidh gnwrize h ellhnikh kybernhsh oti prepei na eimaste poly epifylaktikoi apenanti se tetoioy eidoys prosfores kai protaseis; Asfalws oxi. Den qa odhghqoyme se mia tetoia katadikh. Omws, giati to lew ayto; Gia na deijw oti se tetoies ejairetikes synqhkes ta pragmata den ta ejetazoyme san na eimaste se synqhkes ergasthrioy. Yparxei mia reystothta. Yparxei mia dynamikh poy anaptyssetai kai den mporei na elegjeis ta panta ana pasa stigmh. Mas kathgoreite, dhladh, ayth thn wra, giati xrhsimopoihse kinhto thlefwno o Ampntoylax Otsalan;

FILHS: Diatypwnetai shmera kai apo tis. efhmerides oloy toy fasmatos ena erwthma: H Kenya einai mia xwra poy meta th bombistikh energeia se baros ths ekei amerikanikhs presbeias, amerikanokrateitai. Exei xiliades Amerikanoys praktores to Nairompi. Poioi htan oi logoi poy odhghsan thn E. Y. P kai thn kybernhsh na kanoyn apo 189 xwres toy O. H. E., thn epilogh na ton paei sthn Kenya kai oxi se ena allo geitoniko kratos, dedomenoy oti opws prokyptei apo thn antallagh twn plhroforiwn metajy Elladas kai Kenyas den yphrje synennohsh ths Kenyas me thn Ellada na paei ekei.

REPPAS: Prwta ap' ola kanete ena terastio laqos. Jepernate ena keno to opoio yparxei. Poio einai; Den yphrxe oyte mia xwra h opoia na eixe dhlwsei endiaferon na dexqei kai na filojenhsei ton Ampntoylax Otsalan. Milate, dhladh, gia tis xwres toy OHE kai dinete thn entypwsh oti emeis eprepe na epilejoyme mia apo tis 189 xwres ws xwra proorismoy toy k. Otsalan.

FILHS: Kryfa ton phgate kai sthn Kenya;

REPPAS: Sas parakalw. H Kenya einai mia apo tis xwres ths afrikanikhs hpeiroy. Sthn Eyrwph den yphrxe dynatothta na filojenhqei. To gnwrizete. H dynatothta ayth ejasfalisthke se mia apo tis xwres ths afrikanikhs hpeiroy, s' aythn sygkekrimena. Ara, loipon, kata th gnwmh sas, epeidh amerikanokrateitai to Nairompi, den eprepe na paei sthn Kenya. Den yphrxe allh xwra opoy h Ellada qa mporoyse na prosferei aytes tis yphresies poy prosefere ston Ampntoylax Otsalan. Ara, kata th gnwmh sas, den eprepe na paei oyte sto Nairompi. Na ton ektojeysoyme ston Arh; Sas parakalw poly.

FILHS: Sthn Kenya phge kryfa. Den phge me politikh symfwnia. Etsi den einai; Kryfa qa mporoyse na paei kai alloy. Sthn Kenya omws...

REPPAS: Eidate, loipon, oti mporoyme na kanoyme tis ypoqeseis. An phgaine kapoy alloy kai eixame thn idia katalhjh, qa legate "giati phge s' ayth th xwra kai den phge sthn Kenya h se mia allh xwra; "

FILHS: Mh milate ypoqetika. H Kenya einai protektorato twn HPA;

REPPAS: Eseis milate ypoqetika. Egw ekfrazw tis qeseis ths kybernhshs kai den mporw na milw toso proxeira gia to kata poso mia xwra einai -kata th dikh sas ekdoxh kai dikh moy lejh- diabrwmenh apo yphresies jenwn xwrwn. Einai kati to opoio den qa ajiologhsw egw. Den qa baqmologhsw tis xwres gia na krinw poia einai h ejarthsh toys h h diabrwsh toys apo yphresies allwn xwrwn.

FILHS: Gnwrizete oti yparxei idiaiterh amerikanikh paroysia gia sygkekrimeno logo mono sthn Kenya toso isxyrh apo olh thn Afrikh;

REPPAS: Den gnwrizw poy einai isxyrh h ligotero isxyrh h paroysia twn dynamewn ths Amerikhs ston kosmo. Mporw, omws, na pw oti oi HPA -opws gnwrizoyn oloi- exoyn endiaferon na anaptyssoyn thn paroysia kai tis dynameis toys, se sxedon olo ton kosmo. Ayto einai epishs bebaio kai den prepei na sas diafeygei.

GKOGKAS: Xqes, eipate oti kata th diarkeia ths paramonhs toy sthn Kenya, h ellhnikh kybernhsh ejasfalise th symfwnh gnwmh dyo h triwn allwn xwrwn sthn Afrikh gia na filojenhsoyn ton Ampntoylax Otsalan. Giati, loipon, h ellhnikh kybernhsh den kratoyse edw ton hgeth twn Koyrdwn, mexri na ejasfalisei ayth th symfwnh gnwmh kai epeleje to risko ths Kenyas;

REPPAS: Giati pisteyame oti ayto htan pros to symferon toy Ampntoylax Otsalan, prokeimenoy na breqei se mia perioxh poy qa htan dyskolotero na entopistei ap' oti an emene sthn Ellada. Giati h paramonh toy sthn Ellada qa egkymonoyse para polloys kindynoys gia ton idio kai qa htan se antiqesh, me pio emfantiko tropo, me thn politikh poy eixame ejaggeilei. Oti dhladh den protiqemeqa na toy parasxoyme asylo h na dextoyme na parameinei sthn Ellada, doqentos oti h paramonh toy edw den einai xrhsimh kai skopimh, opws kat' epanalhch eixame pei. Gi' ayto to logo.

KYRIAKIDOY: To keno poy dhmioyrgeitai sthn plhroforhsh basizetai stis diaforetikes ekdoxes ths kybernhshs ths Kenyas kai ths kybernhshs ths Elladas gia thn ekbash twn gegonotwn. H kybernhsh ths Kenyas arneitai oti exei opoiadhpote sxesh m' ayth thn istoria kai diwxnei ton presbh ths Elladas. Oi sxeseis ths Elladas me thn Kenya poies einai;

REPPAS: Dierxontai krish. Gi' ayto akribws exoyme apofasisei thn anaklhsh toy Ellhna presbeyth. Kai opws eipe kai o Prwqypoyrgos sth dhlwsh toy, exoyme zhthsei apo thn Kenya na logodothsei gia to pws ejelixqhkan ta pragmata. Allwste, thn ekdoxh ths Kenyas, ej oswn gnwrizw, den thn exei yioqethsei opoiodhpote allo kratos. Einai ekdoxh thn opoia proballei mono h Kenya.

KOYROYNIS: Yparxei mia dhlwsh toy ekproswpoy toy toyrkikoy ypoyrgeioy Ejwterikwn, poy leei oti qa labei metra gia toys Ellhnes poy krathsan 12 meres ton Otsalan sthn presbeia sto Nairompi. Yparxei kapoio sxolio;

REPPAS: Oti ayth h syrrafh apeilwn poy kata kairoys erxontai kai parerxontai ap' thn Toyrkia, den exoyn pleon apodekth. Den mporoyme na tis laboyme sobara ypoch.

MAYRIDHS: Xqes, o ekproswpos toy State Department, o k. Folei, eipe oti ton teleytaio mhna to amerikaniko ypoyrgeio Ejwterikwn briskotan se diaboyleyseis, gia thn antimetwpish toy qematos Otsalan, me alles xwres mazi kai me thn Ellada kai me thn Toyrkia. Ti eidoys diaboyleyseis htan aytes; Kai to deytero erwthma: An oi Amerikanoi gnwrizan gia thn paramonh toy Otsalan sthn Kenya.

REPPAS: Emeis oi idioi eipame oti exoyme analabei prwtoboylies, se dieqnes epipedo, gia thn antimetwpish aytoy toy qematos. Se eyrwpaiko epipedo kai se epafh me tis HPA, zhthsame, kat' epanalhch, na asxolhqoyn me to qema ayto kai na epidiwjoyme thn ejeyresh mias dikaihs lyshs sto problhma. Ara, loipon, yparxei ek twn pragmatwn ayth h diaboyleysh gia thn antimetwpish toy koyrdikoy zhthmatos h gia th dieyqethsh toy eidikoy qematos poy eixe tote prokycei me thn tyxh toy Ampntoylax Otsalan. Apo ekei kai pera, gnwrizete poia einai h katalhjh. Emeis qa synexisoyme na lambanoyme aytes tis prwtoboylies.

MAYRIDHS: Gnwrizan oi Amerikanoi gia thn paramonh toy Otsalan sthn Kenya, giati...

REPPAS: Na rwthsete toys Amerikanoys gi' ayto.

MAYRIDHS:... anaferontai s' ena sygkekrimeno diasthma. Ayto poy eipate twra, einai geniko. H xqesinh dhlwsh omws anaferetai s' ena sygkekrimeno diasthma: leei "ton teleytaio mhna yphrjan synexeis diaboyleyseis". Egine kapoia idiaiterh diaboyleysh;

REPPAS: Ma, den edwse apanthsh xqes o ypoyrgos Ejwterikwn; Den apanthsa kai egw oti den eixame enhmerwsei opoiondhpote trito, gia thn paramonh toy Otsalan sthn Kenya, sthn ekei katoikia poy toy prosferqhke na diameinei; To eipame ayto. Apo ekei kai pera, gia to ti gnwrizoyn oi HPA, qa apeyqynqeite stoys ekproswpoys twn HPA na sas apanthsoyn.

MELETHS: Mia aporia: Eseis gnwrizate gia ola ayta poy eixan symbei;

REPPAS: Egw gnwrizw ti prepei na gnwrizw kai ti den prepei na gnwrizw. Ayto to opoio gnwrizw, pantws, einai na probalw tis qeseis ths ellhnikhs kybernhshs kai na yperaspizomai ta symferonta ths xwras moy.

MELETHS: Me toys dyo, treis h tesseris poy briskontai sthn ellhnikh presbeia sto Nairompi, ti akribws symbainei; Anazhtoyme, twra, kapoia allh xwra gia na toys prosferei asylo, na katafygoyn ekei; Ti ginetai; Gia poio logo paramenoyn sthn ellhnikh presbeia sthn Kenya;

REPPAS: Eleyqeroi polites einai, den einai kratoymenoi h ypo kapoio periorismo.

MELETHS: Kyrie Ypoyrge, opoios qelei mporei na paei na meinei sthn ellhnikh presbeia sto Nairompi;

REPPAS: Ma, eipa se poio plaisio epideijhs ayths ths anqrwpistikhs bohqeias, dexqhkame na filojenhsoyme kai toys sygkekrimenoys symparastates toy Ampntoylax Otsalan. Apo ekei kai pera, ayto den apotelei kati to opoio exei monima xarakthristika. To eipame ayto. Oi anqrwpoi anazhtoyn tropoys na metaboyn ekei poy oi idioi epilegoyn na metaboyn. H ellhnikh kybernhsh, bebaiws, exei ena endiaferon na epityxoyn ayto to opoio epiqymoyn, alla oi praktikes dynatothtes na bohqhsei einai, asfalws, oriakes.

KANELLOPOYLOS: Kyrie Ypoyrge, nomizw oti paramenei adieykrinisto ena zhthma: To aytokinhto poy parelabe ton Koyrdo hgeth, poianoy htan; Ths presbeias;

REPPAS: H aytokinhtopomph sxhmatisthke me eyqynh twn armodiwn yphresiwn ths Kenyas. Den eixe opoiadhpote symmetoxh, sto poia qa einai ta aytokinhta kai posa, h ellhnikh antiproswpeia. Ara, loipon, den gnwrizw an sthn pomph ayth epelegh kai htan metajy twn allwn, kai aytokinhto ths ellhnikhs presbeias. Pragmatika, den to gnwrizw. Ayto exei mikrh shmasia. Shmasia exei oti to aytokinhto, sto opoio epebaine o k. Otsalan, den htan katw apo ton elegxo ths ellhnikhs presbeias, ara kai h tyxh toy aytokinhtoy den ejartiotan apo kinhseis h th boylhsh ekproswpwn ths ellhnikhs politeias.

KANELLOPOYLOS: Mporoyme na ypoqesoyme, dhladh, oti den htan ths ellhnikhs presbeias to aytokinhto; Den htan dhladh diplwmatiko;

REPPAS: Sas eipa oti thn eyqynh kai ton elegxo ths aytokinhtopomphs thn eixan oi arxes ths Kenyas.

KANELLOPOYLOS: Den exei enhmerwsei h ellhnikh presbeia oti o Otsalan epibibasthke se aytokinhto to opoio htan twn arxwn ths Kenyas;

REPPAS: To aytokinhto htan ths Kenyas. An htan aytokinhto dhmosiwn yphresiwn, ypoyrgeiwn, mystikwn yphresiwn, ths astynomias h allhs yphresias einai kati poy den to gnwrizoyme.

KANELLOPOYLOS: Ayto poy parejekline ths poreias, pantws, den htan ths ellhnikhs presbeias. Ayto katalabainw.

REPPAS: Den htan ellhniko kai den htan katw apo ton elegxo opoioydhpote exei sxesh me thn ellhnikh presbeia.

KANELLOPOYLOS: Apla, idiokthths toy aytokinhtoy poios htan;

REPPAS: Den mporw na gnwrizw ton idiokthth toy. Pantws, den htan ellhniko.

KANELLOPOYLOS: Mexri proxqes akoygame kai apo esas kai apo alloys kratikoys paragontes, na dhlwnete oti sto qema Otsalan enas htan o skopos kai o stoxos ths ellhnikhs kybernhshs: na mh ginei to Koyrdiko meros twn ellhnotoyrkikwn sxesewn. Ektima h kybernhsh oti petyxe sto stoxo ths ayto;

REPPAS: H ellhnikh kybernhsh exei dhlwsei pws den prokeitai na dexqei thn "koyrdopoihsh" ths ejwterikhs politikhs ths xwras. Kai pisteyoyme oti sto plaisio ayths ths epiloghs poy exoyme kanei, synexizontas na askoyme ayth thn politikh poy exoyme ejaggeilei, qa antimetwpisoyme ola ayta ta endexomena. Oi kindynoi mporei na yparxoyn, den pisteyw omws oti oi kindynoi aytoi einai tetoioi, wste na alloiwsoyn to xarakthra ths ejwterikhs politikhs mas.

Sas eyxaristw.

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