BRIEFING 29-04-96

Greek Government Press Release Directory

From: "Hellenic Ministry of Press and Mass Media" <pegasus@compulink.gr>

YPOYRGEIO TYPOY KAI MESWN MAZIKHS ENHMERWSHS 29/4/96

H ENHMERWSH TWN POLITIKWN SYNTAKTWN KAI TWN ANTAPOKRITWN JENOY TYPOY APO TON YPOYRGO TYPOY KAI MESWN MAZIKHS ENHMERWSHS KAI KYBERNHTIKO EKPROSWPO k. DHMHTRH REPPA

KWNSTANTINIDHS: Poy qa ginei h synanthsh me ton k. Skandalidh;

REPPAS: Sto Megaro Majimoy.

KWNSTANTINIDHS: Ti antikeimeno exei ayth h synanthsh;

REPPAS: O k. Skandalidhs einai Grammateas ths Kentrikhs Epitrophs. O Prwqypoyrgos einai kai kommatiko stelexos kai exei endiaferon gia tis ejelijeis sto komma. Eimaste se mia poreia pros to Synedrio. Logiko einai na antallassontai apoceis se takta diasthmata. Yparxei synennohsh kai synergasia gi' ayta ta qemata. Allwste, h Kybernhsh einai Kybernhsh PASOK. O k. Skandalidhs ayth thn wra, ws Grammateas ths Kentrikhs Epitrophs, symballei sthn prospaqeia ths prowqhshs toy kybernhtikoy ergoy, mesa apo th sthrijh poy ayto to kybernhtiko ergo exei apo tis organwmenes dynameis toy Kinhmatos mas. Nomizw oti prepei na proxwrhsoyme sth syzhthsh mas, pleon. Akoyw tis erwthseis sas.

PARIS: Kyrie Ypoyrge, pote o Prwqypoyrgos skopeyei na jekaqarisei tis apoceis toy, tis skeceis toy sxetika me to Synedrio kai na dieykrinisei an qa einai ypochfios gia thn hgesia toy PASOK me ton alfa h to bhta tropo; Dioti den einai poly makrys o xronos poy apomenei kai ypoqetw oti ola ta kommatika stelexh perimenoyn apo ton Prwqypoyrgo thn prwth kinhsh.

REPPAS: Epeidh exei anaptyxqei enas dialogos eyrytatos, qewrhtikwn proseggisewn kai anazhthsewn gia qemata kommatika en ocei toy Synedrioy toy PASOK, prepei na skefqoyme - kai as mh mas diafeygei ayto - oti yparxoyn dipla s' aytes tis qewrhtikes anazhthseis, oi praktikes anagkes ths kaqhmerinothtas. O Ellhnas Prwqypoyrgos exei klhqei na antimetwpisei ta problhmata ths ellhnikhs koinwnias. Exei pei oti exei aisqhsh toy xreoys wste na mporesei na antapokriqei s' ayto to rolo, ton opoio exei analabei ws Prwqypoyrgos kai bebaiws thn wra poy ekeinos qa krinei oti prepei na gnwstopoihsei tis apoceis toy, qa to kanei me gnwmona kai pali tis anagkes kai ta symferonta poy exei to eqnos mas, h xwra mas, alla kai h ellhnikh koinwnia kai ta problhmata apo ta opoia ayth diapernatai. O Ellhnas Prwqypoyrgos qewrei pws, ayth thn wra, den exei na pei kati kainoyrgio prokeimenoy na dwsei apanthsh sth syzhthsh poy exei anaptyxqei gyrw apo ta qemata twn kommatikwn ajiwmatwn, me ta opoia prepei na asxolhqei, metajy twn allwn, to epomeno Synedrio toy Kinhmatos mas. Alla einai kai alloi oi opoioi den exoyn parei qesh gia ta sygkekrimena qemata. Nomizw, loipon, oti kai o Prwqypoyrgos Kwstas Shmiths exei kaqe logo na staqmisei ta pragmata, prokeimenoy na parei thn telikh apofash toy kai na thn gnwstopoihsei, me gnwmona - epanalambanw kai pali - to eqniko kai koinwniko symferon.

GARGALAKOS: Epeidh oi protaseis poy exoyn katateqei en ocei toy Synedrioy einai apoklinoyses kai oxi sygklinoyses se o,ti afora to mellon ths hgesias toy kommatos, qa hqela na rwthsw: ayth h reystopoihsh toy politikoy skhnikoy mhpws epidra sto kybernhtiko gignesqai, mhpws dhladh dhmioyrgei mia atmosfaira apostaqeropoihshs;

REPPAS: Kyrie Gargalako, mias kai milhsate gia reystopoihsh toy politikoy skhnikoy, nomizw oti prospaqeite na mas metaferete sto "kommatiko xrhmatisthrio" kai stis ajies sto xrhmatisthrio ayto. Nomizw oti ayto to opoio prepei na epanalabw - kai as meinoyme s' ayto - einai oti o Ellhnas Prwqypoyrgos me gnwmona - epanalambanw kai pali - to eqniko kai koinwniko symferon, qa parei tis apofaseis toy kai qa tis anakoinwsei thn wra poy prepei na to kanei ayto. Qewroyme oti oi syzhthseis aytes sto plaisio twn diadikasiwn gia to Synedrio mas anaptyssontai eleyqerws, einai gonimes, exoyn stoxo na bohqhsoyn to PASOK kai thn prooptikh toy. Alla den prepei oydeis na paragnwrizei oti ayto poy proexei einai h yperaspish ths kybernhtikhs politikhs, h beltiwsh ths, h enisxysh ths apotelesmatikothtas ths, wste na antimetwpisoyme telikws ta problhmata gia ta opoia o ellhnikos laos qa mas krinei. To PASOK sthrizei ayth thn Kybernhsh. H Kybernhsh einai Kybernhsh toy PASOK. To PASOK kai h Kybernhsh idiaiterws qa kriqei apo to ergo to opoio qa paragei, antimetwpizontas ta sygkekrimena problhmata toy topoy.

KARAGIANNH: Epeidh milhsate gia praktikes anagkes kai gia thn aisqhsh toy xreoys poy exei o Prwqypoyrgos gia th leitoyrgia ths Kybernhshs, qewreite oi praktikes aytes - kai fantazomai oti den qa exoyn ekleicei mexri tote - mporei na mhn epitrecoyn ston k. Shmith na qesei ypochfiothta;

REPPAS: Exw pei kat' epanalhch oti idanikh koinwnia, h koinwnia sthn opoia den yparxoyn problhmata, den yparxei sth gh ayth. H anqrwpinh koinwnia einai koinwnia me problhmata. Me ayth thn ennoia qa yparxoyn pantote kaqhmerines praktikes anagkes. Bebaiws, o Ellhnas Prwqypoyrgos, epeidh ayto to stoxo proexontws yphretei shmera - thn antimetwpish dhladh twn megalwn problhmatwn - qewrw oti prepei s' ayto to stoxo, o opoios epikyriarxei olwn twn allwn, na ypotajei kai tis epiloges poy qa kanei en ocei toy Synedrioy toy PASOK. Dhladh, h telikh apofash toy, h telikh epilogh toy den qa einai allh para ekeinh h opoia qa bohqhsei wste to PASOK na antimetwpisei ta problhmata, na ejantlhsei thn kybernhtikh toy qhteia kai na odhghqei nikhfora stis epomenes ekloges, wste na analabei me thn empistosynh toy ellhnikoy laoy, mia nea plhrh kybernhtikh qhteia meta to 1997.

KARAGIANNH: Mia dieykrinish: Me thn idia ennoia kai to skeptiko poy proseggizei h Kybernhsh thn endexomenh ypochfiothta h mh toy k. Shmith, me to idio skeptiko antimetwpizei kai endexomenh ypochfiothta apo allo kybernhtiko stelexos;

REPPAS: Poia einai h erwthsh; Parakalw na th dieykrinisete. Katalaba, alla qelw na einai poly "kaqarh" giati an dwsw apanthsh se ayth thn erwthsh, mporei eseis na kanete ermhneies oi opoies qa mas odhghsoyn se atrapoys. Kai qelw na to prolaboyme ayto.

KARAGIANNH: Qa epanalabw. To teleytaio diasthma me ena sygkekrimeno skeptiko (opws aproskopth askhsh toy kybernhtikoy ergoy, xreos toy Prwqypoyrgoy k.lp.) proseggizetai endexomenh ypochfiothta h mh toy Prwqypoyrgoy. Rwtaw loipon: Me to idio skeptiko h Kybernhsh proseggizei kai endexomenh ypochfiothta alloy kybernhtikoy stelexoys;

REPPAS: Oles tis ypochfiothtes h Kybernhsh tis proseggizei katw apo ayto to prisma. Ypo to prisma ths ejyphrethshs ths antimetwpishs twn problhmatwn toy topoy shmera. Den mporei na yparxei allo prisma. To prisma einai ena. Einai prisma qesewn arxhs. Afoy, loipon, ayto to prisma epikratei panta, opoiadhpote einai h epilogh, qa einai epilogh h opoia qa ginei katw apo ayto to prisma kai qa ejyphretei ena poly sygkekrimeno stoxo gia ton opoio milhsa molis prin. Den einai dynaton na yparxei allo metro kai mia allh diadikasia epiloghs. H diadikasia sthrizetai akribws se sygkekrimenes anagkes poy qewroyme oti exoyn proteraiothta. Einai h ejyphrethsh toy kybernhtikoy ergoy.

BAREMENOS: "Taseis aytoktonias" diapistwnete eseis k. Ypoyrge sto PASOK;

REPPAS: Egw nomizw oti ap' ayth thn panemorfh xwra, idiaiterws se ayth thn toso wraia periodo, oydeis qa hqele na leicei kai oloi qeloyme na eimaste oxi mono en zwh, alla en plhrh ygeia, wste na apolambanoyme aytes tis synqhkes.

MIXAHL: Kyrie Ekproswpe, o Prwqypoyrgos gnwrizei osa lene dhmosiws alla kybernhtika kai kommatika stelexh gia to diko toy rolo; Kai anaferomai sygkekrimena: Shmera o Ypoyrgos Paideias se mia synenteyjh sthn efhmerida EQNOS leei thn apoch toy gia to ti prepei na kanei o k. Shmiths. Einai se gnwsh toy Prwqypoyrgoy ayto h to diabazei stis efhmerides;

REPPAS: O k. Prwqypoyrgos asfalws exei enhmerwsh peri twn apocewn poy anaptyssontai gyrw apo to sygkekrimeno qema to opoio syzhtoyme. Kai bebaiws o k. Prwqypoyrgos den exei na kanei sxolia gia tis apoceis allwn stelexwn. O k. Prwqypoyrgos lambanei apofaseis oi opoies exoyn ws gnwmona - epanalambanw kai pali - to ycisto kaqhkon toy: na antimetwpisei ta problhmata toy topoy, xwris na paragnwrizei apo ekei kai pera tis apoceis aytes oi opoies anaptyssontai kai oi opoies dhmioyrgoyn ena plaisio, entos toy opoioy kineitai h kommatikh mas zwh. Den prepei oydeis na to paragnwrisei ayto.

MOYRTZHS: Eipate, prohgoymenws, oti anaptyssetai enas gonimos prosynedriakos dialogos. Den jerw an entassete sto dialogo ayto kai ta arqra ths kas Basws Papandreoy, h opoia milhse gia kindyno "bosniopoihshs" toy PASOK h dhlwseis toy k. Papadelh poy enexoyn thn apeilh eklogwn an den anadeixqei o k. Shmiths.

REPPAS: Kata plagio tropo katorqwsate na metakinhqoyme oloi se ena kommatiko pedio, opoy anaptyssontai bebaiws kapoies apoceis kai o dialogos poy kanoyme twra edw, afora tis apoceis poy anaptyssontai gia ta kommatika zhthmata. Egw antapokriqhka stis erwthseis, alla parakalw na yparxei ena orio. Epanalambanw kai pali: oi apoceis aytes, poy diatypwno- ntai, akoygontai me prosoxh, einai sebastes. Se mia anoikth dhmokratikh koinwnia oi apoceis prepei na diatypwnontai eleyqerws. Apo ekei kai pera, pisteyw oti oles aytes oi apoceis diatypwnontai me gnwmona to na bohqhqei to PASOK kai h prooptikh toy. Alla as mhn paragnwrizoyme, kaqws diatypwnoyme o kaqenas thn apoch toy gia ayta ta zhthmata, oti ektos aytwn yparxei kai h kaqhmerinothta. Kai prepei me to idio sqenos kai thn idia epimeleia na antimetwpisoyme kai ta problhmata ths kaqhmerinothtas. Ayto einai poy pisteyw oti qa odhghsei se ena kalo apotelesma to PASOK, sto synolo toy, thn wra ths krishs apo ton ellhniko lao kai den prepei oydenos na diafeygei.

MOYRTZHS: Na kanw eyqews thn erwthsh: Yparxei kindynos "bosniopoihshs" toy PASOK, se periptwsh poy den eklegei o k. Shmiths, ws Antiproedros;

REPPAS: Pistecte me oti se kammia periptwsh den yparxei kindynos "bosniopoihshs" toy PASOK. Giati to PASOK den apotelei synonqyleyma h aqroisma eteroklhtwn epimeroys synolwn. To PASOK einai ena kinhma ayqentiko patriwtiko, to opoio exei prokycei mesa apo diadikasies dhmokratikes me prwtofanh laikh yposthrijh. Kyberna gia mia poly megalh periodo, ston kyklo ayto ths metapoliteyshs sth xwra. Kai pisteyw oti o eniaios kai dhmokratikos xarakthras qa synexisei na yparxei kai qa diasfalizei thn nikhfora prooptikh toy. Gi' ayto oydeis prepei na amfibalei.

KACAMPELHS: Epeidh pantws fainetai o Prwqypoyrgos na dinei idiaiterh shmasia sth xronikh stigmh poy qa anakoinwsei tis apofaseis toy...

REPPAS: Ekei, eseis epimenete epi toy idioy qematos.

KACAMPELHS: Oi dhlwseis Ypoyrgwn, koryfaiwn malista opws kai toy Proedroy ths Boylhs, gyrw apo ta qemata ths ypochfiothtas toy k. Shmith, qewreite oti einai ektos xronoy;

REPPAS: Den qewrw oti einai ektos xronoy. Qewrw oti ekfrazoyn tis proswpikes apoceis toy kaqe stelexoys...

KACAMPELHS: Ws pros to xrono rwtaw...

REPPAS: O kaqenas epilegei to xrono ston opoio qa ekdhlwsei thn apoch toy. Dioti pisteyw oti to kanei me gnwmona th xrhsimothta poy exei h apoch toy ayth sthn poreia pros to Synedrio. Hdh eimaste sthn poreia pros to Synedrio sto epomeno diasthma. Ayto den to paragnwrizei oydeis. Ara, loipon, oles aytes oi apoceis prepei na eklambanontai, na qewroyntai - giati etsi akribws einai - ws h xrhsimh kai wfelimh syneisfora, prokeimenoy to PASOK na parei sto Synedrio toy, tis katallhloteres apofaseis gia thn metepeita poreia toy.

SKOYRHS: Aytes oi synexeis dhlwseis koryfaiwn stelexwn, pisteyete oti symballoyn sto kybernhtiko ergo; Me aformh th synanthsh toy Prwqypoyrgoy me ton k. Skandalidh, h Kybernhsh einai eyxaristhmenh apo th sthrijh poy exei apo to komma sto kybernhtiko ergo;

REPPAS: H Kybernhsh qewrei dedomenh kai isxyrh th sthrijh thn opoia exei apo to synolo twn dynamewn oi opoies ekfrazontai politikws apo th shmerinh Kybernhsh. Pisteyoyme oti h paroysiash twn apocewn twn diaforwn stelexwn, bebaiws einai epitrepth. Qa elega oti se mia prosynedriakh periodo idiaiterws epiballontai. Alla, epanalambanw kai pali, oti se oydena mporei h prepei na diafeygei oti to kybernhtiko ergo einai se ejelijh. Kai ayto poy prwtistws prepei na mas apasxolei einai h epityxia toy PASOK sto plaisio twn kybernhtikwn kaqhkontwn poy exei analabei. Ayto einai to prwtisto. Kai kaqe prospaqeia h opoia katateinei sto na bohqhsei thn Kybernhsh toy PASOK na apodeixqei apotelesmatikh kai wfelimh gia ton topo einai prosaqeia poy mas briskei symfwnoys. Kaqe prospaqeia h opoia adynatizei ayth thn kinhsh toy PASOK, asfalws mas briskei antiqetoys.

MARDAS: Kyrie Ypoyrge, eipate oti to PASOK den kindyneyei apo "bosniopoihsh". Yparxoyn stelexh toy PASOK kai ths Kybernhshs poy proteinoyn mia politikh symfwnia koryfhs me stoxo thn enothta kai th diadoxh twn rolwn. Mia symfwnia dhladh typoy "Nteiton". Ti qesh pairnei o Prwqypoyrgos;

REPPAS: Kyrie Marda, epimenete kai eseis na synexizoyme th syzhthsh s' ayto to pedio. Qa moy epitrecete na pw, afoy ejhghsa prin oti to PASOK den mporei na ginei "Bosnia" gia ton poly aplo logo oti den exoyme yparjei ws megalh "Gioygkoslabia" h opoia synapotelesqh apo epimeroys kratidia kai dialyqhke sta ej wn kapote syneteqh. To PASOK, epanalambanw kai pali, einai eniaio komma. Etsi yphrje, etsi yparxei shmera kai etsi qa synexisei na yparxei. Den xreiazontai symfwnies koryfhs. Ayto poy xreiazetai einai sebasmos stis politikes kai ideologikes arxes mas kai mia eilikrinestath desmeysh sta osa to katastatiko toy Kinhmatos mas problepei. Ayta nomizw oti einai aytonohta. Ayta an isxysoyn, nomizw den yparxei kanena problhma apo ekei kai pera gia thn metajy mas epikoinwnia, synennohsh kai synergasia.

GARGALAKOS: Kyrie Ypoyrge, eipate oti den xreiazontai symfwnies koryfhs. Einai apoch dikh sas h apoch ths Kybernhshs;

REPPAS: H Kybernhsh qewrei oti den einai dynaton na yparjoyn symfwnies koryfhs, oi opoies qa dwsoyn lysh sto problhma. Einai qesh ths Kybernhshs. H Kybernhsh pisteyei oti lysh sto problhma - epanalambanw kai pali - dinei, apla kai mono, h aytonohth desmeysh stis politikes kai ideologikes arxes toy Kinhmatos kai h desmeysh olwn mas stis katastatikes probleceis. Aytoi oi oroi einai yper arketoi, ean qeloyme eilikrinws na toys yphrethsoyme, wste na mhn yparxei to paramikro problhma. An kata tropo aneilikrinh miloyme gia arxes politikhs kai ideologias, miloyme gia orismenes katastatikes diatajeis, alla anazhtoyme alloy eidoys diadikasies prokeimenoy na lysoyme problhmata ta opoia dexomeqa oti yparxoyn, tote asfalws den eimeqa eilikrineis.

MARDAS: Kyrie Ypoyrge, h yparjh omadwn sto PASOK symballei sth diasfalish ths enothtas; Den dhmioyrgei parenergeies sthn Kybernhsh;

REPPAS: Kyrie Marda, sth dhmokratia kai stoys koinoboyleytikoys qesmoys einai oxi mono epitrepto, einai epibeblhmeno na yparxoyn oles oi apoceis kai na anaptyssontai eleyqerws. Na anqizoyn ola ta loyloydia. Poly perissotero se ena dhmokratiko koinoboyleytiko komma opws to PASOK, aytes oi apoceis einai apodektes, einai xrhsimes kai tis akoyme me prosoxh panta.

MARDAS: H omada twn "epta" synedriazei dhladh;

REPPAS: H kinhsh twn "epta", h opoia kat' epanalhch exei parei qesh gia diafora qemata, exw pei kai pali oti den einai enas mhxanismos proswpikwn symferontwn, einai apoceis stelexwn poy exoyn ekfrastei sta plaisia ayths ths kinhshs, oi opoies antapokrinontai se kapoia qemata poy kata kairoys exoyn teqei. Otan milame gia stelexh - h gia systoixies telos pantwn - ta opoia ekfrazoyn mia apoch, mhn qewreite oti exoyn ycwqei "teixh" metajy twn diaforwn stelexwn. Kai h antallagh apocewn mhn qewreite oti isodynamei me "synoriaka epeisodia". Kaqe allo. Einai h antallagh apocewn poy yparxei mesa sthn koinwnia mas, alla kai se kaqe mikrh omada, se kaqe yposynolo ayths ths koinwnias kai se mia oikogeneia mesa, se mia parea symmaqhtwn. Se mia omada anqrwpwn oi opoioi einai synergates se mia epixeirhmatikh drasthriothta anaptyssontai aytes oi apoceis. Poly perissotero loipon...

STAMATOPOYLOS: Parabaseis kai parabiaseis ginontai sta "synora";

REPPAS: Poly perissotero loipon, se ena komma poy einai kat' ejoxhn xwros paragwghs politikhs kai ideologias, einai logiko na anaptyssontai aytes oi apoceis.

STAMATOPOYLOS: Parabiaseis kai parabaseis ginontai sta "synora";

REPPAS: Loipon, qa einai xrhsimo gia oloys, nomizw, na metakinhqoyme se ena allo qema.

KARAKWSTAS: Qa pragmatopoihqei h synanthsh toy Prwqypoyrgoy me ton Proedro toy PASOK entos ths ebdomados;

REPPAS: Entos ths ebdomados den nomizw k. Karakwsta, doqentos oti, kata to programma o k. Prwqypoyrgos anaxwrei, meqayrio Pempth, gia periodeia sth Qrakh.

POYLIDOY: Apexoyme treis hmeres apo shmera mexri thn Pempth.

REPPAS: Nai, den exei programmatisqei kapoia synanthsh me ton k. Papandreoy.

LASKARIDHS: Anaferqhkate prohgoymenws se aneilikrineis diaqeseis s'o,ti afora kapoies protaseis gia symfwnies koryfhs...

REPPAS: Den eipa ayto. Den synedesa thn aneilikrineia me protaseis gia symfwnies koryfhs.

LASKARIDHS: Den tis diapistwnei dhladh h Kybernhsh sto xwro toy PASOK;

REPPAS: Oxi, einai mia qesh arxhs ayth k. Laskaridh. Oti, an eilikrinws, desmeyomaste apo tis politikes kai ideologikes arxes toy PASOK, opws epishs periorizomaste apo tis katastatikes probleceis, den yparxei kanena problhma na anazhtoyme alloys dromoys h alles meqodoys prokeimenoy na antimetwpisoyme problhmata poy yparxoyn. Exoyme hdh to ergaleio sta xeria mas.

PAPADOPOYLOS: Apodidei thn kybernhtikh politikh h parekklinei ayths, to ypoyrgeio Eqnikhs Oikonomias eishgoymeno - opws apokalyptoyn shmerina dhmosieymata - sth Diypoyrgikh Epitroph Perikophs Dapanwn, ayjhsh twn hlikiakwn oriwn syntajiodothshs sto Dhmosio, perikophs syntajewn, ayjhsh eisforwn twn asfalismenwn sta Asfalistika Tameia;

REPPAS: Qa moy epitrecete na pw oti eseis me ta reportaz poy kanete exete kapoia stoixeia ta opoia oi Yphresies diaforwn Ypoyrgeiwn qetoyn ypoch sas h eseis qewreite oti einai stoixeia ta opoia apoteloyn ylh gia na labei - ergazomenh panw se ayta - h kybernhsh tis apofaseis ths, einai stoixeia ta opoia den einai pros anakoinwsh. Einai stoixeia ta opoia den apoteloyn - qa elega - proion ergasias sthn telikh toy morfh wste na qewreite pws apoteloyn kai stoixeia ths kybernhtikhs politikhs. Den yparxei tipota ap'ola ayta sta opoia anaferqhka- te, ayth thn wra. Apo thn allh, prepei na katanohsete kai eseis oti oi Dhmosies Yphresies me toys eidikoys kata qema kai kata periptwsh eishgoyntai diafora qemata. Asxoloyntai me diafora qemata. Kanoyn analoges eishghseis. H Kybernhsh qa labei tis apofaseis ths sta plaisia toy programmatos poy exei ejaggeilei kai m'ayto exei desmeytei ston ellhniko lao. Den yparxei tipota to opoio na antapokrinetai sthn alhqeia se sxesh me osa rwthsate.

KWNSTANTINIDHS: Kathgoreitai h Kybernhsh oti, meta th synanthsh toy k. Pagkaloy me ton omologo toy Toyrko Ypoyrgo Ejwterikwn kai th nea synanthsh poy exei orisqei,odhgoymeqa se ena ellhnotoyrkiko dialogo ef'olhs ths ylhs kai malista me thn eyreia ennoia toy oroy. Einai etsi ta pragmata;

REPPAS: Prepei na sas pw oti, epishmws toylaxiston, den kathgorhqhke h Kybernhsh gia dialogo ef'olhs ths ylhs.

MARDAS: Kathgorhqhke. Apo ton k. Kach.

REPPAS: Qa erqw se ayto. Den kathgorhqhke gia dialogo ef' olhs ths ylhs. Toylaxiston, den stoixeioqethqhke ayth h kritikh an askhqhke kat'ayton ton tropo poy eseis lete. H Ellada - exoyme pei kat'epanalhch - epiqymei thn ejomalynsh twn sxesewn me thn Toyrkia. Pisteyoyme oti h sygkekrimenh politikh poy exoyme proteinei, mia "bhma pros bhma" proseggish me thn geitonikh xwra, mporei na apodwsei karpoys, ef'oson h Toyrkia epidiwkei kai ekeinh thn ejomalynsh twn sxesewn ths me thn Ellada kai antapokriqei sth dikh mas politikh protash, analambanontas sygkekrimenes prwtoboylies oi opoies tis analogoyn. Emeis den qeloyme h synennohsh, h epafh, h synergasia me thn Toyrkia na einai "gkriza" synennohsh, "gkriza" epafh, "gkriza" synergasia. Qeloyme na yparxei eilikrinhs synennohsh. Qeloyme na yparxei synergasia, na ejomalynqoyn oi sxeseis mas, na anaptyxqei filia. Alla, bebaiws, ola ayta prepei na ginoyn me staqera bhmata ta opoia na apoteloyn kai to qemelio liqo mias adiatarakths ellhnotoyrkikhs filias, h opoia makroproqesma elpizoyme - doyleyontas swsta - na prokycei kai ayth. Alla - epanalambanw kai pali - oti ayth h "bhma pros bhma" proseggish prepei na sthrizetai se kapoies arxes. Na diepetai apo kapoioys kanones. Apo to sebasmo sto Dieqnes Dikaio kai tis Dieqneis Symfwnies, apo thn katadikh ths xrhshs bias h ths apeilhs gia xrhsh bias, apo thn epilogh toy eirhnikoy tropoy gia na antimetwpizontai ta problhmata, apo thn anagnwrish ths edafikhs akeraiothtas kai ths eqnikhs kyriarxias ths kaqe xwras kai bebaiws apo thn prosfygh se dieqnh organa, nomika organa ta opoia kaloyntai na antimetwpizoyn kat'ejoxhn nomika problhmata. Nomizw, loipon, oti an h Toyrkia apo th dikh ths pleyra epidiwkei - opws toylaxiston frastika se kapoies apoxrwseis h dhlwseis dikwn ths paragontwn, fainetai - mia eilikrinh sxesh filias kai synergasias me thn Ellada, prepei na apallajei thn politikh ths apo monomereis diekdikhseis kai bleceis, apo ajiwseis se baros ths edafikhs mas akeraiothtas kai bebaiws na proselqei se mia synennohsh me thn Ellada, h opoia synennohsh ayth qa sthrizetai stis arxes gia tis opoies milhsa prin. Emeis s'ayth thn periptwsh eimeqa etoimoi na antapokriqoyme.

KWNSTANTINIDHS: Kyrie Ypoyrge, epitrecte moy na synexisw. Apo thn prwth synanthsh toy k. Pagkaloy me ton Toyrko omologo toy, ayto to pneyma proekyce apo pleyras Toyrkias wste na orisoyme kai deyterh synanthsh;

REPPAS: Ma, kyrie Kwnstantinidh, den exei orisqei synanthsh. H synanthsh einai sta plaisia mias allhs dieqnoys synergasias twn organwn toy NATO sto Berolino. H syzhthsh poy egine me ton k. Pagkalo htan anagnwristikh, as moy epitrapei na pw. Den exei to xarakthra diapragmateyshs. Den exei ton xarakthra organwmenoy dialogoy, dialogoy dhladh me qematografia me sygkekrimenh "atzenta". Einai mia epafh sthn opoia h Ellhnikh Kybernhsh ayth thn wra krata me thn pleyra ths Toyrkias, xwris na analambanei opoiadhpote desmeysh. Ayto einai kati to opoio xarakthrizei tis sxeseis pollwn xwrwn poy briskontai - qa elega - se krish. Emeis qewroyme oti einai mia politikh h opoia bohqa thn Ellada kai tis apoceis ths na paraqetei kai na ejasfalizei dieqnws ereismata ta opoia dhmioyrgoyn ena qetikotero klima gia thn Ellada sthn prospaqeia poy kanei na prowqhsei ta eqnika ths qemata. Kai ayto einai kati poy qa synexisoyme emeis. Na prowqoyme ta eqnika mas qemata me enan tetoio tropo o opoios qa dinei se oloys na katalaboyn pws sthn prajh emeis ennooyme thn politikh mas gia ejomalynsh twn sxesewn me thn Toyrkia.

STAMATOPOYLOS: O k. Pagkalos omws eipe oti qa proetoimasoyn ayth th synanthsh kapoioi alloi kai den qa einai synanthsh poy qa ginei sto periqwrio. Qa thn proetoimasoyn kapoioi. Anefere malista kai ta onomata twn Dieyqyntwn toy Ypoyrgeioy Ejwterikwn, oi opoioi qa proetoimasoyn th synanthsh ayth. Den einai mia tyxaia synanthsh. Einai dialogos kanonikos.

REPPAS: Eseis, kyrie Stamatopoyle, to onomazete "dialogo kanoniko". "Dialogos kanonikos" shmainei oti oi dyo pleyres exoyn mia sygkekrimenh qematografia epi ths opoias syzhtoyn prokeimenoy na lhfqoyn apofaseis. H Ellhnikh Kybernhsh qewrei - kai meinete s'ayto twra - oti prepei na krathsei s'ayth th fash anoikth thn epikoinwnia me thn Toyrkia, anoikth thn epafh me thn Toyrkia, sta plaisia aytwn twn paragontwn. Kai apo ekei kai pera, h prospaqeia mas gia bhma pros bhma proseggish synexizetai. Gnwrizete para poly kala - kai ayth einai h kathgorhmatikh mas qesh - oti den mporoyme na bohqhsoyme thn proodo ths telwneiakhs syndeshs Eyrwpaikhs Enwshs - Toyrkias, efoson h Toyrkia den kanei to prwto bhma gia to opoio exoyme milhsei, prosfygh sto Dieqnes Dikasthrio ths Xaghs. Den katalabainw ti einai ayto to opoio dinei thn entypwsh oti h politikh mas exei allajei. Ayto poy exei allajei einai h kinhsh thn opoia qelei na dwsei sthn yperaspish twn eqnikwn mas qematwn h Ellhnikh Kybernhsh, prokeimenoy apo th qesh toy amynomenoy na breqoyme se mia tetoia qesh, wste na proballoyme ta qemata mas kai na ejasfalizoyme dieqnh ereismata, apodeiknyontas sthn prajh oti ennooyme pws me kalh pisth pame se mia prospaqeia ejomalynshs twn ellhno- toyrkikwn sxesewn. Ayto qeloyme na petyxoyme.

STAMATOPOYLOS: O k. Pagkalos kanei allh politikh; Den katalaba.

REPPAS: Den kanei kammia allh politikh o k. Pagkalos. Kanei thn kybernhtikh politikh, h opoia einai opws akribws sas thn periegraca molis prin.

SOYRMELIDHS: Hqela na rwthsw, ti apanta h Aqhna sto gegonos oti o k. Gkionensai dhlwnei pws den exei edafikes bleceis mono gia ta Imia, alla exei gia polles alles, ekatontades nhsides, kai milaei gia "gkriza zwnh".

REPPAS: Ma, apanthse o k. Pagkalos. Epanerxomai, legontas pws ayth einai mia monomerhs epidiwjh, mia blech ths Toyrkias se baros toy eqnikoy mas xwroy. Thn aporriptoyme. Den thn dexomaste. Kai m'aythn thn ennoia den yparxei qema syzhthshs.

SOYRMELIDHS: Gia th deyterh proypoqesh poy eqese gia to dialogo o k. Gkionensai, ti apantate; Desmeyqhke h Aqhna na mhn epekteinei ta xwrika ths ydata, kaqoson diarkei aytos o dialogos h h epafh;

REPPAS: Exoyme kat'epanalhch pei oti h Ellada den prokeitai na analabei tetoia desmeysh, giati to dikaiwma ayto den to antlei apo opoiadhpote allh pleyra. To antlei apeyqeias apo to Dieqnes Dikaio kai enapokeitai sthn idia thn Ellada pote qa askhsei sthn prajh ayto to dikaiwma ths.

SOYRMELIDHS: Kati akomh: Oson afora thn yfalokrhpida, einai qesh ths Kybernhshs oti ayth qa kriqei me bash ta eji h ta dwdeka milia; Dioti enas apo toys basikoteroys symboyloys toy Prwqypoyrgoy, o opoios htan kai sthn Oyasigkton, o k. Rozakhs, dhlwnei oti panta syzhta h Ellada me bash ta eji milia.

REPPAS: To exoyme jekaqarisei kai pali. Anaferesqe profanws sth synenteyjh poy edwse - thn poly endiaferoysa - sthn kyria Poylidoy. Prepei na pw oti einai allo qema - to exoyme jekaqarisei - to qema twn xwrikwn ydatwn kai allo qema, to qema ths yfalokrhpidas. Einai dyo diaforetika qemata. As yparjei, kyrie Soyrmelidh, to prwto bhma to opoio poly sygkekrimena exoyme perigracei. Kai an yparjei prwto bhma apo thn pleyra ths Toyrkias, na eisqe sigoyroi oti qa eimaste etoimoi gia epomena bhmata. Alla kaqe epomeno bhma apaitei to prohgoymeno. Kai edw eimaste akomh sthn arxh. Prepei na yparjei to prwto bhma apo thn pleyra ths Toyrkias. T.

MPERMPERAKHS: Kyrie Ypoyrge, qa hqela synoptika, me poly liges lejeis, mia - dyo lejeis, na mas dwsete...

REPPAS: Me mia-dyo lejeis; Eseis omws thn erwthsh mporeite na thn kanete me mia-dyo lejeis; T.

MPERMPERAKHS: Prospaqw. An mporeite, sas parakalw.

REPPAS: Egw den qa prospaqhsw, giati jerw oti den ginetai. Sas akoyw. T.

MPERMPERAKHS: An mporeite, na mas peite, ti akribws proekyce gia thn Ellada ap'ayth th synanthsh; Pws th xarakthrizei h ellhnikh pleyra; qetikh, arnhtikh; Kapoia aisqhsh pws antilambanesqe ayth th synanthsh.

REPPAS: Qa elega oti htan mia synanthsh anixneyshs twn proqesewn ths Toyrkias, milwntas gia logariasmo ths Ellados.

KWNSTANTINIDHS: Poia symperasmata proekycan, kyrie Ypoyrge;

REPPAS: Ta symperasmata exoyn diatypwqei apo ton k. Pagkalo me leptomereia, eyqys ws epestrece apo to Boykoyresti. Bebaiws, krinoyme qetikes tis ekfraseis ths toyrkikhs pleyras peri toy eirhnikoy tropoy me ton opoio prepei na antimetwpizontai ta problhmata, peri ths apofyghs ths xrhshs bias kai ta synafh. Alla, bebaiws, ta peri "gkrizwn perioxwn", peri Synqhkwn, oi opoies prepei na epanejetasqoyn se nea bash, mas briskoyn apolytws antiqetoys. Malista, o k. Pagkalos se mia perikoph twn apanthsewn toy eipe oti qeseis tetoies qewroyme pws synistoyn kai mh filikh energeia pros thn Ellada. Giati, loipon, agaphtoi filoi kai synergates, qewreite pws yparxoyn qemata; Ola ta qemata einai safestata kai jekaqarismena.

MIXAHL: Kyrie Ypoyrge, qa hqela na moy peite, an h Kybernhsh einai ikanopoihmenh h oxi apo tis antidraseis poy yphrjan sthn Ellada apo ta ypoloipa kommata ths antipoliteyshs.

REPPAS: H Ellhnikh Kybernhsh exei empistosynh stis qeseis ths. Ayth h eqnikh aytopepoiqhsh nomizw oti prepei na diakatexei ola ta politika kommata. Exoyme to prohgoymeno ths syzhthshs poy egine gia tis synqhkes poy epikratoyn sth Dytikh Qrakh, sto Kogkresso. Kai pisteyw oti h anhsyxia poy eixe diatypwqei apo alla kommata, ek twn pragmatwn pleon apodeiknyetai oti htan adikaiologhth. Giati h Ellada brhke enan lampro tropo mesa apo ekeino to bhma na anaptyjei tis apoceis ths kai na bgei kerdismenh. Etsi kai edw twra, pisteyw oti ta kommata ta politika sthn Ellada den prepei ej antipoliteytikoy kaqhkontos kai mono na speydoyn na askhsoyn thn kritikh toys. Pisteyw oti prepei na anamenoyn sygkekrimenes prajeis ths Kybernhshs kai aytes na tis krinoyn me mia diaqesh kalopistias kai oxi ypo to prisma - epanalambanw kai pali - ths dhmioyrgias entypwsewn epeidh einai kommata ths antipoliteyshs. Giati, qa moy epitrecete na sxoliasw, oti h dhlwsh idiaiterws ths Neas Dhmokratias periexei dyo ypoqeseis, oi opoies an aytes ikanopoihqoyn, odhgoyn - kata th dhlwsh ths Neas Dhmokratias - se barytates eyqynes ths Kybernhshs. An dhladh ginei dia- logos xwris na einai swsta proetoimasmenos me apotelesma sth synexeia na diakopei kai na exoyme epibarynsh twn ellhno-toyrkikwn sxesewn h an ginei dialogos xwris h Toyrkia na analabei kapoies desmeyseis poy shmainei oti qa einai dialogos me epaxqeis oroys gia thn Ellada. An ginoyn ayta ta dyo - shmeiwnei sth dhlwsh ths h Nea Dhmokratia - tote oi eyqynes gia thn Kybernhsh einai barytates. Ma den exoyme oyte to ena oyte to allo. Para tayta h antipoliteysh protrexei na askhsei thn kritikh ths. An askei politikh - na moy epitrecete na pw me thn eykairia ayth - h Nea Dhmokratia, opws askei kai thn kritikh ths, me ypoqeseis, tote pisteyw oti kai to mellon ths den qa einai lampro. 'H qa einai lampro mono ypoqetika.

STAMATOPOYLOS: Blepete dialysh;

REPPAS: Ti na th doyme; Thn eidame.

KWNSTANTINIDHS: Kyrie Ypoyrge, stis Dhmokraties oi pleiochfies kybernoyn. Kai oi meiochfies, h antipoliteysh, askoyn kritikh. Eseis qelete na mhn askei kritikh h antipoliteysh;

REPPAS: Asfalws qeloyme na askei kritikh. Emeis dexomeqa kritikh kai stoys kolpoys toy kybernhtikoy kommatos. Einai dynaton na mh dexomaste oti yparxei pedio gia kritikh apo alla antipala politika kommata; Kaqe allo. Eipa oti h kritikh ayth den prepei na ginetai ej antipoliteytikoy kaqhkontos, alla prepei na ginetai me mia kalopisth diaqesh prokeimenoy na prowqoyntai ta eqnika qemata.

PARIS: Apo th synanthsh poy eixe o k. Pagkalos me ton Toyrko omologo toy, apantwntas se sxetikh erwthsh, eipe oti ejelabe thn entypwsh apo ton Toyrko synadelfo toy, oti h qesh ths Toyrkias oti an h Ellada ayjhsei ta xwrika ths ydata sta dwdeka milia ayto einai aitia polemoy, oti den isxyei pleon. Hqela na mas to dieykrinisete ayto. Einai alhqeia ayto;

REPPAS: Ti na dieykrinisw; H Toyrkia thn teleytaia periodo paroysiazetai me mia - toylaxiston sth diatypwsh ths - diaforetikh qesh apo th qesh poy eixe diatypwsei h kyria Tsiler milwntas sthn Toyrkikh Boylh peri casus belli, efoson h Ellada ayjhsei ta xwrika ths ydata. H qesh ayth den diatypwqhke pali, ektote apo thn toyrkikh pleyra. Kai ayto einai kati to opoio to epishmainoyme. Alla - epanalambanw kai pali - den einai ayto to opoio qa paijei ton kaqoristiko rolo gia na paroyme emeis thn apofash mas.

SOYRMELIDHS: Diatypwqhke me alla logia... Alla, en pash periptwsei, as mhn mpoyme se ermhneies. Eipe "efoson den yparjoyn monomereis kinhseis".

REPPAS: Kyrie Soyrmelidh, eseis eisqe epimelhs. Diabazete kai tis apanthseis ektos twn erwthsewn. Kai sthn apanthsh toy o k. Pagkalos eipe oti den einai monomerhs energeia ayth. Dioti einai energeia h opoia phgazei kat'eyqeian apo to Dieqnes Dikaio. Den einai mia prwtoboylia ths Ellhnikhs Kybernhshs h opoia den exei nomiko ereisma. Oyte einai ena dikaiwma to opoio antloyme apo th nomimothta poy mas dinei h paradoxh oti exoyme ayto to dikaiwma apo thn Toyrkia.

SOYRMELIDHS: O k. Gionensai exei shmasia ti leei. Oxi ti leei to Dieqnes Dikaio.

REPPAS: O k. Pagkalos apanthse, kyrie Soyrmelidh, sth synenteyjh toy proxqes, oti o k. Gionensai an milaei gia monomereis prajeis, profanws qa ennoei thn kinhsh thn opoia ekane h Toyrkia sto prosfato epeisodio ths Imias. Ayth thn apanthsh edwse o k. Pagkalos. Giati allh monomerhs prajh den exei ginei. H de epektash twn xwrikwn ydatwn - epanalambanw kai pali - einai prajh h opoia phgazei apo to Dieqnes Dikaio. Den einai prajh thn opoia kanei mia Kybernhsh epeidh h idia thn prajh ayth thn qewrei ws aparaithth sta plaisia twn politikwn epilogwn ths, apla kai mono. Yparxei nomiko ereisma.

SOYRMELIDHS: Sas lew kai pali: To eqese ws proypoqesh. "Den qa xrhsimopoihsoyme bia giati den xreiazetai, efoson den yparjoyn sto mellon monomereis kinhseis".

REPPAS: Gi'ayto yparxei diafwnia me thn Toyrkia, kyrie Soyrmelidh. Eseis entypwsiazesqe giati exete sto myalo sas kataskeyasei ena sxhma: oti exoyme dialogo, oti proxwroyn oi sxeseis me thn Toyrkia kai apo thn allh h Toyrkia ekfrazei aytes tis apoceis.

SOYRMELIDHS: Oxi, den to exoyme kataskeyasei.

REPPAS: Ma, sas lew kyrie Soyrmelidh, oti epeidh akribws h Toyrkia ekfrazei aytes tis apoceis, gi'ayto akribws den ejomalynontai kai den proodeyoyn oi ellhno-toyrkikes sxeseis. Einai poly aplo.

SOYRMELIDHS: Sas parakalw, oi synanthseis sthn Elbetia kai sto Berolino den ftiaxthkan apo to myalo mas. Einai gegonos.

REPPAS: Den milhsa gia tis synanthseis. Kanete laqos. Parakalw, na baloyme ta pragmata sth qesh toys. Oi synanthseis einai ena pragmatiko gegonos. Den einai pragmatiko gegonos ayto to opoio - epanalambanw kai pali - apotelei gia polloys politikh paradoxh oti yparxei se ejelijh o dialogos, ara oi sxeseis oi ellhno-toyrkikes anoigoyn. Alla, sas lew oti den prokeitai na allajoyn oi ellhno-toyrkikes sxeseis, oso h Toyrkia diatypwnei tetoies qeseis. Ayto einai poly safes. Kai en pash periptwsei - epanalambanw kai pali - oti emeis qeloyme sxeseis me thn Toyrkia oi opoies den qa einai gkrizes sxeseis. Kaqara kai jastera.

PARIS: Ena oikonomiko qema: Qelw na rwthsw an h politikh ths Kybernhshs se sxesh me tis idiwtikopoihseis kai tis ependyseis dhmosies kai idiwtikes exei allajei. Giati to rwtaw ayto; H kyria Basw Papandreoy h opoia kai einai Ypoyrgos Anaptyjhs stamata th mia ependysh meta thn allh. Stamathse ta kazino, kwllysiergei th metoxopoihsh ths DEP, ta erga sto aerodromio den exoyn jekinhsei kai en pash periptwsei pws h Kybernhsh qelei na proselkysei idiwtikes ependyseis otan brisketai se anantistoixia logwn kai ergwn.

REPPAS: Kyrie Paris, prepei na sas pw oti h Kybernhsh exei staqerh oikonomikh politikh, h opoia basizetai, metajy twn allwn, kai einai to idiaiterws shmantiko kai ekeino poy mas endiaferei, sthn Anaptyjh prokeimenoy na bgoyme apo th stasimothta sthn opoia exoyme perielqei. Pisteyw oti qa yparjei syntomws h politikh gia th metoxopoihsh ths DEP. Qa ginoyn syntomws, epishs, ta egkainia toy neoy aerodromioy sta Spata. Oso gia thn ependysh sto xwro twn kazino, eipame kai pali, pws asfalws qeloyme na ginontai ependyseis, alla ayto den shmainei oti oi ependyseis mporei na ginontai katw apo ena kaqestws - qa moy epitrecete na pw - eite anomias eite, en pash periptwsei, kaqestws amfisbhthsewn. Nomizw loipon, kyrie Paris, oti h politikh mas ston tomea ayto paramenei h idia. Kai me sygkekrimena paradeigmata, qa deite oti h politikh ayth qa apodwsei karpoys.
* Ayrio Trith (30.4.96) kai meqayrio Tetarth (1.5.96) den qa exoyme enhmerwsh. Qa ta poyme pali thn Pempth (2.5.96).
Sas eyxaristw poly.