BRIEFING 25-04-96

Greek Government Press Release Directory

From: "Hellenic Ministry of Press and Mass Media" <pegasus@compulink.gr>

YPOYRGEIO TYPOY KAI MESWN MAZIKHS ENHMERWSHS 25.4.96

H ENHMERWSH TWN POLITIKWN SYNTAKTWN KAI TWN ANTAPOKRITWN JENOY TYPOY APO TON YPOYRGO TYPOY KAI MESWN MAZIKHS ENHMERWSHS KAI KYBERNHTIKO EKPROSWPO k. DHMHTRH REPPA

MIXAHL: Kyrie Ypoyrge, hqela na sas rwthsw to ejhs: Toson eseis oson kai o antikatastaths sas o k. Aqanasakhs mas eipate oti h Toyrkia den antapokrinetai stis ekklhseis ths Ellados gia na ginei syzhthsh gia to pws qa antimetwpisqei to problhma ths laqrometanasteyshs. Pros thn Albania exoyme kanei kapoia analogh protash, wste na doyme an oi Albanoi antapokrino- ntai;

REPPAS: Me thn Albania to problhma exei enan idiaitero xarakthra kai diastaseis, epeidh aforoyn kai thn eisodo laqrometanastwn apo ton synoriako xwro ton xersaio. Antilambanesqe pws en ocei kai ths yparjhs ekei ths ellhnikhs meionothtas kai twn meionotikwn oi opoioi qeloyn na exoyn mia prosbash enqen kakeiqen, exei afhsei sthn Ellhnikh Kybernhsh periqwria na xeirisqei ayto to qema me enan kapws - qa elega - diakrito h diaforetiko tropo. Asfalws, ginetai syzhthsh kai me thn Kybernhsh ths geitonikhs xwras (ths Albanias) gia to sygkekrime- no qema, opws kai gia alla qemata. Kai pisteyoyme pws ean enteinei thn prospaqeia ths h Albania, toylaxiston tetoioy eidoys fainomena (poy odhgoyn malista kai se apwleies anqrwpinwn zwwn), mporei na ta antimetwpisei h toylaxiston na symbalei apotelesmatikotera sthn antimetwpish toys.

KWNSTANTINIDHS: Apo th synanthsh toy Prwqypoyrgoy me ton k. Kornmploym exei prokycei kati to opoio mporei na...

REPPAS: H synanthsh ayth htan mia synanthsh eqimotypikh, mia synanthsh gnwrimias. O k. Kornmploym episkeptetai thn perioxh. Hrqe sthn Aqhna meta thn Agkyra. Analambanei kaqhkonta...

KWNSTANTINIDHS: Ma, htan aplws eqimotypikh h synanthsh, kyrie Ypoyrge;

REPPAS: Einai h prwth fora poy synantwntai, sas parakalw! H synanthsh htan eqimotypikh, synanthsh gnwrimias. Kai bebaiws, h synanthsh ayth poy dihrkese arketh wra, peripoy mia wra, den mporei na einai mono eqimotypikh. Alla, bebaiws, otan kapoios episkeptetai gia prwth fora kapoion allon, h synanthsh exei enan xarakthra eqimotypiko. Asfalws, omws, syzhthsan ta qemata xwris na yparxei sygkekrimenh "atzenta" poy aforoyn thn perioxh mas: Tis sxeseis ths Ellados me thn Toyrkia, to Kypriako bebaiws, ta problhmata poy yparxoyn stis sxeseis ths Ellados me thn Kybernhsh twn Hnwmenwn Politeiwn kai to rolo poy h Ellada mporei na paijei sto xwro twn Balkaniwn. Ola ayta ta qemata syzhthqhkan. O k. Kornmploym, ayth thn wra, synantatai me ton Ypoyrgo Ejwterikwn k. Qeodwro Pagkalo. Oi synomilies twn dyo andrwn qa einai leptomereiakes, katatopistikes kai o k. Kornmploym qa exei mia plhrh kai safh eikona gia thn politikh ths Kybernhshs kai tis ejeidikeymenes qeseis ths gia ola ayta ta epimeroys qemata.

STAMATOPOYLOS: Kyrie Ypoyrge, giati o Prwqypoyrgos otan synantatai me jenoys hgetes syzhta to qema ths Imia; Exoyme emeis problhma na qetoyme tetoio qema; Den exoyme kyriarxika dikaiwmata epi ths Imia; Giati, loipon, o k. Prwqypoyrgos eyriskomenos sto ejwteriko syzhta ayto to qema h mhpws to syzhta epeidh kapoioi alloi to qeloyn;

REPPAS: Ma, kyrie Stamatopoyle, etsi ki alliws exei prokycei ena qema, to opoio kaneis den mporei na agnohsei. Asfalws kai ta dikaiwmata mas einai kyriarxika epi ths sygkekrimenhs perioxhs kai ayto to exoyme katasthsei safes. Apo thn allh, omws, gnwrizete oti sto plaisio aytwn twn syzhthsewn prepei na epixeirhmatologhseis wste na kerdiseis thn yposthrijh h th symfwnia ths allhs pleyras yper twn qesewn soy. To qema ayto einai ena qema shmantiko gia mas, meta thn teleytaia ellhno-toyrkikh krish. Exoyme kaqe logo loipon sto sygkekrimeno qema, poy exei parei ena xarakthra apo thn apoch ths probolhs toy dieqnh, na katasthsoyme safh th qesh mas stoys synomilhtes mas. Poly de perissotero poy oi synomilhtes mas, epeidh akribws einai Arxhgoi kratwn - melwn ths Eyrwpaikhs Enwshs (anaferomai stis episkeceis toy Ellhna Prwqypoyrgoy se eyrwpaikes prwteyoyses) h Arxhgoi Kybernhsewn xwrwn poy paizoyn rolo stis ejelijeis kai aforoyn h ephreazoyn th dikh mas poreia h thn poreia twn eqnikwn mas qematwn, exoyme kaqe logo loipon emeis na qetoyme ta qemata me th seira poy qewroyme oti anaferontai se eqnika mas symferonta. Otan kaloymeqa, gia paradeigma, na paroyme mia sygkekrimenh qesh gia th symfwnia telwneiakhs enwshs Toyrkias - Eyrwpaikhs Enwshs, logiko einai emeis na anaptyssoyme th dikh mas epixeirhmatologia me th seira poy pisteyoyme oti thn kaqista pleon peistikh. Kai paroysiazoyme ta qemata etsi, wste na ejasfalizoyme mia kalyterh katanohsh apo th dikh toys pleyra. Ayta einai pragmata aytonohta.

KIAOS: O k. Kornmploym metefere mhpws skeceis h protaseis ek meroys kapoioy gia synanthsh toy k. Shmith me ton k. Gilmaz;

REPPAS: O k. Kornmploym - epanalambanw kai pali - anelabe kaqhkonta sthn perioxh. Episkefqhke thn Agkyra, episkeptetai twra thn Aqhna. Gnwrizei toys paragontes me toys opoioys qa synergasqei thn epomenh periodo kai kanei mia prwth katatopistikh gi'ayton syzhthsh peri twn qematwn, ta opoia qa ton apasxolhsoyn. Den metefere kapoio mhnyma. O k. Kornmploym, sthn episkech toy ayth, akoyei tis apoceis twn synomilhtwn toy wste na exei mia safh eikona. Qewroyme oti h eikona poy qa exei apo thn Ellhnikh Kybernhsh (mia kai peran ths shmerinhs synanthsews toy me ton k. Prwqypoyrgo, synantatai twra me ton Ypoyrgo Ejwterikwn, nwris to prwi synanthqhke hdh me ton Ypoyrgo Eqnikhs Amynas k. Gerasimo Arsenh), qa einai mia eikona safhs kai plhrhs.

FILHS: Kyrie Ypoyrge, h episkech toy neoy Amerikanoy Bohqoy Ypoyrgoy Ejwterikwn twn HPA, toy k. Kornmploym, sth xwra mas, (liges meres prin apo th synanthsh twn Ypoyrgwn Ejwterikwn Ellados kai Toyrkias sto Boykoyresti, sto periqwrio ths Synodoy twn xwrwn - melwn ths Pareyjeinias Synergasias kai me dedomeno oti o k. Kornmploym den episkeptetai mono thn Aqhna, alla kai thn Agkyra kai th Leykwsia), qa ephreasei thn epikeimenh synanthsh twn YPEJ Ellados kai Toyrkias sto Boykoyresti;

REPPAS: Prwta ap' ola, den prepei na syndeoyme to ena peristatiko me to allo: Dhladh thn episkech toy k. Kornmploym me th Synodo ths Pareyjeinias Synergasias poy qa pragmatopoih- qei sto Boykoyresti. Oi epidraseis poy yparxoyn, xwris kapoios na mporei na ektimhsei to eyros h to ycos toys, prokyptoyn aytomatws kai ayto einai aytonohto. Asfalws yparxoyn epidraseis. Alla, sth sygkekrimenh periptwsh kai me bash ayto poy molis eipa, den qa prepei na qewrhsete oti eprepe na yparjei h episkech toy k. Kornmploym wste na yparjei mia odhgia h mia kateyqynsh gia to ti nohma h ti periexomeno prepei na exei h syzhthsh h opoia qa ginei sto Boykoyresti metajy toy Ellhna kai toy Toyrkoy Ypoyrgoy Ejwterikwn. H synanthsh toy k. Pagkaloy me ton k. Gionensai einai mia synanthsh, h opoia den exei ton xarakthra programmatismenhs synanthshs. Prokeitai gia mia synanthsh h opoia den exei sygkekrimenh "atzenta". Einai mia synanthsh gnwrimias - qa elega - metajy twn YPEJ Ellados kai Toyrkias, poy pragmatopoieitai sto plaisio mas dieqnoys synergasias, opoy oi dyo andres qa exoyn th dynatothta kai kata monas na gnwrisqoyn kai na antallajoyn kapoies apoceis. Xwris na yparxei - epanalambanw - kati prosxediasmeno h prodiagegrammeno poy synepagetai mia sygkekrimenh qematologia.

FILHS: O k. Pagkalos exei pei oti h synanthsh toy me ton k. Gionensai den qa einai aplws mia synanthsh gnwrimias, alla qa einai mia oysiastikh synanthsh. Kai bebaiws, opws eipate, ayth h synanthsh eixe prosdiorisqei edw kai para poly kairo, dhladh to endexomeno ths synanthsews twn YPEJ Ellados kai Toyrkias. Ti ennoeite omws otan omileite peri "aytonohtoy ephreasmoy" ths episkecews toy k. Kornmploym sthn perioxh epi ths synanthsews toy Boykoyrestioy; Ti ennoeite sygkekrimena; Exete kati sto myalo sas;

REPPAS: Ennow oti otan yparxei kinhtikothta, otan yparxei paroysia politikwn paragontwn, paragontwn ths dieqnoys zwhs sthn perioxh, logiko einai na dhmioyrgeitai ena klima tetoio, to opoio bebaiws den afhnei ektos epirrohs toy drasthriothtes poy anaptyssoyn alloi paragontes sthn idia perioxh. Einai kati aytonohto kai mhn prospaqeite, parakalw, na ejagete kapoio allo symperasma. Den prosferetai h ejagwgh alloy symperasmatos s'ayto poy eipa.

SOYRMELH: Kyrie Ypoyrge, eipate prohgoymenws oti o k. Kornmploym, sth shmerinh synanthsh toy me ton k. Prwqypoyrgo, syzhthse diafora qemata (malista, ta anaferate ena pros ena) kai metajy aytwn poy eipate, einai kai ta problhmata poy yparxoyn stis sxeseis ths Ellados me thn Kybernhsh twn Hnwmenwn Politeiwn. Poia einai ayta ta problhmata;

REPPAS: Oi sxeseis metajy Ellados kai Hnwmenwn Politeiwn aforoyn mia - qa elega - seira qematwn kai kaqorizontai kaqe fora analoga me thn ejelijh (eynoikh h ligotero eynoikh) thn opoia lambanoyn ta qemata ayta.

SOYRMELH: Anaferesqe dhladh stis dimereis sxeseis.

REPPAS: Kai qa moy epitrecete - mia poy qijate ayto to qema - na anaferqw se ena paradeigma (epeidh kai eseis milhsate gia problhmata kai qewrhsate pws egw anaferontas ayth th sygkekrimenh lejh, qelw na ypodhlwsw oti yparxei kapoia entash stis ellhno-amerikanikes sxeseis). Asfalws den ennow ayto kai parakalw mhn protrejete na bgalete kapoio tetoio symperasma. Epanerxomai s'ayto poy hqela na sas pw apo thn arxh: Yparxei, gia paradeigma, mia xrhsimopoihsh ths anakoinwshs poy ekane palaiotera o Amerikanos Ypoyrgos Metaforwn gia to qema twn synqhkwn asfaleias sto aerodromio toy Ellhnikoy. Ayto einai kati - to gnwrizete asfalws - gia to opoio h Ellhnikh Kybernhsh ekfrazei thn antirrhsh ths kai thn enoxlhsh ths. Edw, ontws, yparxei mia diafwnia. Kai h diafwnia ayth aytomatws synista kai ena eidos problhmatos. Ayto mono kai mono to anaferw gia na sas peisw an prepei na katabalw prospaqeia pros toyto (akomh kai an anepityxws thn kataballw, opws eseis nomizete!). Dhladh otan omilw gia problhmata, dyo xwres otan exoyn sxeseis den mporei para na exoyn kai problhmata. Kai dyo anqrwpoi otan exoyn sxeseis, den mporei para na exoyn kai problhmata).

STAMATOPOYLOS: Kai ayto to qema twn synqhkwn asfaleias sto aerodromio toy Ellhnikoy, syzhthqhke, kyrie Ypoyrge, sth shmerinh synanthsh toy k. Kornmploym me ton k. Prwqypoyr- go;

REPPAS: Oxi, den ypeishlqan se tetoies leptomereies. Alla, bebaiws, epanalambanw kai pali, eprepe na dwsw mia apanthsh sthn kyria Soyrmelh, h opoia qewrhse oti "ebgale lago"!

STAMATOPOYLOS: Giati egw jerw, kyrie Ypoyrge, oti erxontai thn Kyriakh edw Amerikanoi gia to qema toy aerodromioy.

REPPAS: Erxontai thn Deytera. Ma, kyrie Stamatopoyle, ayto ontws einai qema gia mas, to exoyme pei allwste kai exoyme parei sygkekrimenh qesh. Kai qewroyme pws h qesh mas ep'aytoy einai safhs. T. MPERMPERAKHS; Kyrie Ypoyrge, qa mporoysate na ginete, ws Ekproswpos ths Kybernhshs, pio epejhghmatikos gia to pws qa dieyqethqei to qema twn oriwn twn xwrikwn ydatwn sto Aigaio, se periptwsh poy parapemfqei to qema ths yfalokrhpidas sto Aigaio; Anaferomai sth dhlwsh toy k. Rwmaioy.

REPPAS: Den exei kammia sxesh to ena qema me to allo. To qema twn xwrikwn ydatwn kai h epektash toys einai kyriarxiko dikaiwma ths Ellhnikhs Kybernhshs. Enapokeitai sthn Ellada pote qa askhsei ayto to dikaiwma. Einai dikaiwma poy den to apempoloyme. T.

MPERMPERAKHS: Th dhlwsh toy k. Rwmaioy thn exete ypoch sas.

REPPAS: Htan apanthsh se mia erwthsh. Den htan akribws dhlwsh. Kai an thn diabasete oloklhrh, den prokyptei kanena qema. An thn exete diabasei sto synolo ths, qa diapistwsete oti den einai etsi, opws afhnete na ennohqei apo thn erwthsh poy ypobalate. T.

MPERMPERAKHS: Dhladh, exei apodoqei kakws ston ellhniko Typo;

REPPAS: Den lew oti exei apodoqei kakws ston ellhniko Typo. O k. Rwmaios den eipe oti mesw toy qematos ths yfalokrhpidas to opoio parapempetai sth Xagh, payei na yparxei qema xwrikwn ydatwn. To qema twn xwrikwn ydatwn einai allo qema. Einai qema kyriarxiko gia thn Ellada. To qema ths yfalokrhpidas einai ena qema nomiko to opoio exei en tw metajy prokycei kai exoyme zhthsei edw kai para polla xronia na ypogracoyme synyposxetiko me thn Toyrkia prokeimenoy na pame sto Dikasthrio ths Xaghs. H Toyrkia arneitai. Eyxomai na mhn arneitai gia poly akomh.

FILHS: H erwthsh einai safhs: Yparxei enas syndyasmos nomikos gia ton orismo ths yfalokrhpidas kai twn xwrikwn ydatwn. Ean h Ellada synypogracei me thn Toyrkia synyposxetiko prokeimenoy oi dyo xwres na katafygoyn apo koinoy sto Dieqnes Dikasthrio ths Xaghs gia to qema ths orioqethshs ths yfalokrhpidas sto Aigaio, prepei taytoxronws na orisoyn apo poio mhkos xwrikwn ydatwn qa metrhqei h yfalokrhpida. Synepws, to qema twn 12 h twn 6 miliwn gia to qema ths orioqethshs ths yfalokrhpidas syndyazetai amesa an pame sth Xagh.

REPPAS: Kyrie Filh, qa moy epitrecete na mhn mellontologhsoyme, para to oti dexomai pws peisqhkate oti syntomws h Toyrkia qa dexqei na prosfygoyme apo koinoy sth Xagh (gi'ayto qetete thn erwthsh). Efoson, loipon, h Toyrkia dexqei na prosfygoyme apo koinoy, qa to syzhthsoyme pali. Emeis exoyme epilejei sygkekrimenh politikh. Thn exoyme proteinei me thn epixeirhmatologia ths pleon orqhs kai telesforas gia mia bhma pros bhma proseggish. As yparjei to prwto bhma kai ta alla qa ta syzhthsoyme. Alla, xwris na yparxei to prwto bhma, pisteyw oti einai prowro, isws kai epizhmio, na syzhtoyme mellontologwntas.

DHMOSIOGRAFOS: Yphrje syzhthsh gia qemata metrwn oikodomhshs empistosynhs sto Aigaio kata th shmerinh synanthsh toy k. Prwqypoyrgoy me ton k. Kornmploym;

REPPAS: Oxi. H qesh mas einai gnwsth. Kai o k. Kornmploym sth sygkekrimenh periptwsh, s'ayth th fash enhmerwshs toy gia tis ellhno-toyrkikes sxeseis, akoyei tis apoceis, tis opoies h Ellhnikh Kybernhsh ektenws anaptyssei.

KARAMPASHS: O k. Kornmploym, feygontas apo thn Agkyra, eixe ektimhsei oti h stash ths Toyrkikhs Kybernhshs einai qetikh gia mia epilysh toy Kypriakoy s'ayth th fash. Deyteron, qa hqela na syndyasw thn erwthsh toy k. Kiaoy, ean exei metaferqei ayth h ektimhsh kai sthn Ellhnikh Kybernhsh. Kai akomh...

REPPAS: Ti eipe o k. Kiaos;

KARAMPASHS: O k. Kiaos sas rwthse ean exei metaferqei kapoio mhnyma ths Toyrkikhs Kybernhshs mesw toy k. Kornmploym.

REPPAS: O k. Kiaos anaferqhke se kapoio mhnyma genikws.

KIAOS: Eseis ta apokleisate ola, telikws.

REPPAS: Egw eipa oti o k. Kornmploym hrqe gia na akoysei, na enhmerwqei leptomerws gia thn ellhnikh politikh sta sygkekrimena qemata.

KARAMPASHS: Kai mia erwthsh gia to Kypriako, kyrie Ypoyrge: Yparxei kati to sygkekrimeno; Kai mia akomh erwthsh: Ean meta th synanthsh Pagkaloy - Gionensai sto Boykoyresti qa yparjei kapoia koinh dhlwsh (sth synexeia den akoygetai eykrinws).

REPPAS: Epanalambanw kai pali, gia na arxisw me thn teleytaia erwthsh sas, pws h synanthsh ayth den einai programmatismenh wste na exei sygkekrimenh qematografia, wste na prosdokoyme sygkekrimena apotelesmata. Einai mia synanthsh poy ginetai sta plaisia mias dieqnoys synergasias. Qa ginei ayth h synanthsh kai qa doyme pws akribws qa prokycoyn sygkekrimena apotelesmata, an prokycoyn sygkekrimena apotelesmata. Poio qa einai to klima, poia qa einai h dhlwsh poy qa kanoyn oi dyo andres, an kanoyn dhlwsh kiolas. Ayta ola einai anoixta se ola ta endexomena. Den yparxei dhladh mia typopoihsh peri toy xarakthra ayths ths synanthshs. T.

MPERMPERAKHS: Toylaxiston, mporeite na mas peite poia einai h prosdokia ths ellhnikhs pleyras apo ayth th synanthsh;

REPPAS: H prosdokia ths ellhnikhs pleyras einai na dexqei epiteloys h Toyrkia thn politikh ths Ellados, poy me thn protash ths (h Ellada) proteinei tipote perissotero ap'o,ti exei sxesh me to Dieqnes Dikaio, th logikh, thn alhqeia kai to sebasmo kapoiwn arxwn poy prepei na diepoyn tis filikes sxeseis dyo xwrwn. Bebaiws, einai ligo dyskolo na mhn amfisbhtoyme oti h Toyrkia einai ikanh kai etoimh na kanei tetoia bhmata. Emeis omws s'ayth thn kateyqynsh qa synexisoyme na kinoymeqa, pisteyontas pws h prospaqeia mas qa eyodwqei. An den kanw laqos, h syzhthsh mas me ton k. Karampash, prohgoymenws, den oloklhrwqhke, exei meinei sth mesh. Qelete na epanelqete, kyrie Karampash;

KARAMPASHS: Yparxei kati neotero apo toyrkikhs pleyras gia to Kypriako mesw toy k. Kornmploym; REPPAS; Oxi, den yparxei tipota neotero. Sas epanalambanw kai pali oti o k. Kornmploym den einai komisths kapoiwn apocewn allhs pleyras. H qesh mas gia to Kypriako einai gnwsth. Emeis qewroyme pws epiteloys, meta apo tosa xronia, h kinhtikothta h opoia paroysiazetai apo diafores pleyres peri to Kypriako, prepei na apodwsei sygkekrimenoys karpoys, na exei praktika apotelesmata. Kai pros ayth thn kateyqynsh kaqe prwtoboylia einai dekth, opws kai emeis eimaste diateqeimenoi na syneisferoyme ta megista, wste na yparjei epiteloys lysh s'ayto to mega qema.

SOYRMELH: Kyrie Ypoyrge, epeidh prohgoymenws dwsate ena paradeigma twn "problhmatwn" stis sxeseis ths Ellados me thn Kybernhsh twn Hnwmenwn Politeiwn poy omws den syzhthqhke, mhpws qa mporoysate na eikonografhsete, na xrwmatisete poia einai ayta ta problhmata poy syzhthqhkan me ton k. Kornmploym; Kai deyteron, jerete ean o k. Kornmploym qa paei telika sthn Kypro h oxi;

REPPAS: Asfalws kai qa episkefqei th Leykwsia o k. Kornmploym. O k. Kornmploym pragmatopoiei episkech sto "trigwno", opws eiqistai pleon na leme. O k. Kornmploym hrqe gia na asxolhqei me ta problhmata ths perioxhs kai bebaiws me thn prowqhsh twn prospaqeiwn gia thn antimetwpish toy Kypriakoy. Allo qema den yparxei. Stis syzhthseis - epanalambanw kai pali - akoyse o k. Kornmploym tis qeseis mas. Mhn eklambanete, kyria Soyrmelh, oti h Ellhnikh Kybernhsh eqese qemata ta opoia apoteloyn "megala problhmata" metajy Ellados kai Hnwmenwn Politeiwn. H Ellhnikh Kybernhsh kai pali diatypwse tis apoceis ths kai perimenei apo thn Kybernhsh twn Hnwmenwn Politeiwn sthn prajh na epibebaiwnei ana pasa stigmh oti symfwnei me mia politikh, h opoia einai politikh arxwn, opws thn exei ekqesei kai anaptyjei h Ellada.

KIAOS: Se kapoio radiofwno, to prwi, meta th synanthsh poy eixe o k. Kornmploym me ton k. Arsenh, akoysthke oti o k. Kornmploym efere jana sto trapezi to qema twn metrwn oikodomhshs empistosynhs sto Aigaio.

REPPAS: Poia einai h erwthsh sas sygkekrimena;

KIAOS: Erwtw: Eteqh tetoio qema sto trapezi twn synomiliwn; Stekei ayto to pragma;

REPPAS: Apanthsa s'ayto to qema, kyrie Kiao. Exoyn ginei dhlwseis apo toys dyo andres (apo ton k. Arsenh kai ton k. Kornmploym). O k. Kornmploym exei kanei mia dhlwsh, opoy anaferei pws enhmerwqhke plhrws gia tis qeseis ths Ellhnikhs Kybernhshs, gia tis prosdokies poy exei h Ellhnikh Kybernhsh apo thn apostolh poy o idios analambanei kai oti exei aythn thn wra mia poly kalh katatopish gia ta qemata ta opoia qa ton apasxolhsoyn.

MOYRTZHS: O k. Shmiths, se synenteyjh poy edwse sto BBC xqes, eipe oti perase h epoxh toy "Prwqypoyrgoy - monarxh" kai exoyme twra perasei se mia epoxh me pio syllogikes hgesies sta kommata. Erwtw loipon: se poies epoxes anaferetai o Prwqypoyrgos...

REPPAS: O k. Prwqypoyrgos sth synenteyjh poy anaferesqe, milhse gia "pio syllogikes leitoyrgies".

MOYRTZHS: O k. Prwqypoyrgos otan anaferetai oti perase anepistrepti h epoxh toy "Prwqypoyrgoy - monarxh", poies epoxes ennoei; To systhma omws ejakoloyqei na einai prwqypoyrgokentriko kai den exei allajei tipote. Pws anaferetai se syllogikes hgesies o k. Shmiths;

REPPAS: Sas epanalambanw, kyrie Moyrtzh, oti o k. Prwqypoyrgos sth synenteyjh poy anaferqhkate, milhse gia "syllogikes leitoyrgies". Allwste, yparxei to sygkekrimeno paradeigma ths leitoyrgias toy k. Shmith, ws Prwqypoyrgoy. Gnwrizete oti to Ypoyrgiko Symboylio kai ta alla kybernhtika organa leitoyrgoyn kata takta xronika diasthmata, o k. Prwqypoyrgos synergazetai taktikotata me toys Ypoyrgoys toy. Kai yparxoyn oi apofaseis oi opoies anakoinwnontai kai lambanontai metra wste na antimetwpisqoyn ta diafora problhmata ths xwras. Pragmatika, h Kybernhsh ypo ton k. Shmith exei mia syllogikh leitoyrgia. Ayto einai kati kainoyrgio. Allo omws "syllogikh leitoyrgia" kai allo "syllogikh hgesia". O k. Prwqypoyrgos exei rolo ws Prwqypoyrgos, ton opoio exei mono aytos. Den yparxei allos Prwqypoyrgos, enas einai einai o Prwqypoyrgos s'aythn thn Kybernhsh.

MOYRTZHS: Den moy apanthsate omws se poies epoxes anaferotan o k. Shmiths otan elege oti "perase anepistrepti h epoxh toy Prwqypoyrgoy - monarxh". Se poies epoxes, loipon, anaferotan o k. Shmiths;

REPPAS: Pisteyw, kyrie Moyrtzh, pws einai koinh empeiria olwn, oti h shmerinh Kybernhsh exei enan tropo leitoyrgias h ryqmoys leitoyrgias, oi opoioi einai poly pio safeis kai poly pio syllogikoi ap'o,ti sto parelqon. Se opoiadhpote epoxh, sto parelqon, ta kybernhtika organa synedriazan poly araia h kaqoloy kai apofaseis lambanontan apo enan poly steno kyklo anqrwpwn h apokleistikws kai monon apo ton idio ton Prwqypoyrgo. Kai ayto se oles tis xwres, alla kai sthn Ellada sto parelqon, exei symbei.

GYPARH: Kyrie Ypoyrge, epi Mhtsotakh den leitoyrgoysan ta kybernhtika organa kai den lambanontan apofaseis;

REPPAS: Mhn mpoyme sthn istoriodiqhsh peri toy pws lambanontai apofaseis kai poies apofaseis apo ton k. Mhtsotakh.

STAMATOPOYLOS: Gia peste mas na maqoyme ki emeis.

REPPAS: Parakalw!

STAMATOPOYLOS: Oxi, epimenw. Gia peste mas na maqoyme ki emeis.

REPPAS: Qelete na qesete sygkekrimenh erwthsh, kyrie Stamatopoyle;

STAMATOPOYLOS: Peste mas, poies apofaseis elhfqhsan opws yposthrizete eseis;

REPPAS: Anaferesqe profanws se poies apofaseis elabe o k. Mhtsotakhs ws Prwqypoyrgos;

STAMATOPOYLOS: Apofaseis poy elhfqhsan opws elhfqhsan - opws eipate prohgoymenws - kai den jerame poioi tis epairnan kai pws tis epairnan. Poies einai aytes oi apofaseis;

REPPAS: Pisteyoyme, kyrie Stamatopoyle, oti h Kybernhsh etsi opws leitoyrgei shmera, leitoyrgei perissotero syllogika, dhmokratika, apo opoiadhpote Kybernhsh sto parelqon, sthn Ellada. Epanalambanw: Apo opoiadhpote Kybernhsh, sto parelqon, sthn Ellada, mhde ejairoymenhs ths Kybernhshs ypo ton k. Mhtsotakh.

STAMATOPOYLOS: Dhladh;

REPPAS: Gia polla qemata, kyrie Stamatopoyle. Den qa mpw s'ayth th syzhthsh twra, dioti ektrepetai o dialogos se mia kateyqynsh poy den einai toy parontos af'enos kai ths aiqoyshs af'eteroy. Qelw na eimai synoptikos kai syntomos. Den qa pame se tetoioy eidoys dialogo ayth thn wra.

STAMATOPOYLOS: Ennoeite kai tis Kybernhseis toy k. Papandreoy;

REPPAS: Ennow oles tis Kybernhseis oi opoies yphrxan sthn Ellada, oxi gia to synolo twn leitoyrgiwn toys, alla gia ena megalo tmhma ths qhteias toys. Kai eipa oti sto parelqon exoyme empeiria apo tetoioy eidoys kybernhtikes drasthriothtes, oi opoies den eixan to syllogiko xarakthra poy exei h kybernhtikh leitoyrgia shmera. Epanalambanw kai pali: Oxi gia to synolo ths qhteias twn Kybernhsewn, alla bebaiws gia tmhmata megalytera h mikrotera ths qhteias twn Kybernhsewn aytwn.

MPOYRDARAS: Pisteyete k. Ypoyrge oti o tropos aytos leitoyrgias ths Kybernhshs me Prwqypoyrgo ton k. Shmith qa ypobohqhqei an o k. Shmiths analabei kai koryfaia qesh sthn kommatikh ierarxia; Kai an symbei to antiqeto qa yparjoyn problhmata ston tropo ths leitoyrgias ths;

REPPAS: O tropos leitoyrgias toy k. Shmith ws Prwqypoyrgoy sas einai gnwstos. Pisteyw oti qa einai apotelesmatikos an pragmatika katorqwsei na dwsei lysh se megala problhmata ths ellhnikhs koinwnias shmera. O k. Shmiths qa apofasisei o idios - epanalambanw kai pali - exontas ayth th maxh na dwsei apenanti sta megala eqnika kai koinwnika problhmata, me poio tropo qa entajei o idios ton eayto toy sthn kommatikh pyramida. Kai epeidh akribws ayto to qema twra den ton apasxolei, alla ton apasxolei h antimetwpish twn eqnikwn kai koinwnikwn problhmatwn, me gnwmona ta eqnika kai koinwnika - akribws - symferonta, qa labei kai thn telikh toy apofash. Thn opoia kai qa anakoinwsei otan thn labei.

ELENOPOYLOS: H erwthsh toy synadelfoy htan allh: An qa einai pio apotelesmatikos o Prwqypoyrgos, efoson labei ayth thn apofash kai an eklegei bebaia.

REPPAS: Otan o k. Prwqypoyrgos, k. Elenopoyle, labei apofash kai thn anakoinwsei, shmainei - opoia kai an einai ayth h apofash - oti thn elabe th sygkekrimenh apofash prokeimenoy na einai pio apotelesmatikos sthn antimetwpish twn megalwn problhmatwn ths xwras.

FILHS: O k. Benizelos o Ypoyrgos Dikaiosynhs emfanisthke etoimos na mhn proxwrhsei, na mhn prowqhsei to nomosxedio peri eyqynhs Ypoyrgwn me aformh antidraseis boyleytwn. Yparxei kapoia deyterh skech se epipedo Kybernhshs na odhghqei to qema sto Ypoyrgiko Symboylio jana; Kat' arxhn, yparxei to O.K. Den einai etsi;

REPPAS: Yparxei apofash, gia to nomosxedio, toy Ypoyrgikoy Symboylioy. Kai h apofash htan omofwnh prepei na poyme.

FILHS: Yparxei kapoia deyterh skech gia epanejetash, logw twn antidrasewn;

REPPAS: Panta, oi apoceis twn politikwn, twn boyleytwn akoygontai me idiaiterh prosoxh. Kai oi apoceis aytes, otan anaptyssontai sta koinoboyleytika organa, exoyn ena idiaitero baros. Katalabainete poly kala pws oydeis mporei na tis agnohsei. Alla, bebaiws, h Kybernhsh kai o kaq' ylhn armodios Ypoyrgos gia kaqe qema, einai aytos o opoios askei, stis leptomereies ths, thn politikh.

STAMATOPOYLOS: H Kybernhtikh Epitroph phre mia apofash thn opoia mas eixate anakoinwsei eseis edw: oti qa edine mia adeia kazino Attikhs. Twra bgainei h ka Papandreoy kai leei oti den qa doqei tetoia adeia.

REPPAS: Den eixa pei oti qa dinotan adeia. Den einai etsi.

STAMATOPOYLOS: Etsi einai. Ayto eixate pei.

REPPAS: Oxi, oxi. Kanete megalo laqos.

STAMATOPOYLOS: Den kanw laqos. Eipate oti qa doqei mia sthn Attikh mono...

REPPAS: Na doyme ta praktika ekeinhs ths periodoy na deite oti kanete laqos.

STAMATOPOYLOS: Oti qa doqei mia adeia sthn Attikh...

REPPAS: Den einai etsi, mhn epimenete. An qelete mporeite eykolotata na qesete thn erwthsh gia to qema poy sas endiaferei xwris na xrhsimopoihsete ayth th bash.

STAMATOPOYLOS: Nai, sas lew oti bghke h ka Papandreoy xqes kai eipe oti den qa doqei oyte ayth h adeia ths Attikhs. Giati allazei apo ebdomada se ebdomada;

REPPAS: Den allazei apo ebdomada se ebdomada. Giati oydepote yphrje anakoinwsh apofashs etsi opws eseis th qetete ws afethria gia thn erwthsh sas.

STAMATOPOYLOS: Pws htan k. Ypoyrge;

REPPAS: H Kybernhsh apofasise thn anaklhsh ths adeias poy eixe paraxwrhqei. Qewrhse oti den eprepe na proxwrhsei o diagwnismos gia th deyterh adeia poy htan en ocei. Kai h Kybernhsh - sas eixa pei tote - qa parei tis telikes apofaseis, tis opoies qa anakoinwsei h ka Papandreoy, enqymeisqe. H ka Papandreoy - kai ayth einai h kybernhtikh politikh - anakoinwse oti den prokeitai na doqei adeia sthn perioxh, thn eyryterh ths Aqhnas, sthn perioxh ths Attikhs. To kratiko kazino ths Parnhqas paramenei kratiko. Apla to managment qa doqei se idiwtes, meta apo kapoio diagwnismo. Kai bebaiws - eixame kanei leptomerh syzhthsh an qymaste epi toy sygkekrimenoy qematos - oson afora th leptomereia ayth, sthn opoia eyqys amesws anaferomai, eixame pei oti prepei na ejetasoyme to kaqestws poy diepei th leitoyrgia toy kazino sto Loytraki, doqentos oti pleon den yparxei antagwnistikh paromoia drasthrioth- ta sthn Aqhna. Ara, prepei se nea bash na ejetasqei h leitoyrgia toy kazino sto Loytraki, mias kai h adeia eixe doqei gia kazino "b' kathgorias", as to onomasw etsi. Pragma poy shmainei oti paramenei mono pleon, xwris antagwnistes (dyo sthn Aqhna, opws arxika proeblepeto, h estw ena idiwtiko kazino sto Floisbo, opws arxika eixe apofasisqei) to kazino Loytrakioy. Ara, prepei se nea bash na ejetasoyme th leitoyrgia toy. Ayth einai mia apofash thn opoia anakoinwse h ka Papandreoy.

STAMATOPOYLOS: Eseis epimenete oti den eixate pei gia kazino Attikhs;

REPPAS: Nai, k. Stamatopoyle, nai.

MIXAHL: Epitrecte moy na parw to logo ayqairetws, na sas pw oti meta apo dikh moy erwthsh edw - sas eixa rwthsei ean qa einai mia h adeia kazino se idiwtes kai an qa mporei na metaferetai entos ths Attikhs ektos apo th b' perifereia - apanthsate: "nai, mia poy mporei na einai ektos ths tews dioikhsews Prwteyoyshs..."

REPPAS: Sas eipa k. Mixahl oti otan anakoinwqoyn oi apofaseis qa doqoyn eite mia adeia eite dyo. Den exoyme parei apofaseis gia to ti qa aforoyn.

STAMATOPOYLOS: Eipate oti qa doqei mia adeia Attikhs.

REPPAS: Sas parakalw poly, den eipa oti qa doqei mia adeia.

KOGIANNHS: (Apeyqynomenos stoys dhmosiografoys): Eixe pei oti an einai mia, qa einai ths Parnhqas, an einai dyo qa doyme.

STAMATOPOYLOS: Ti qa ginei twra;

REPPAS: Sas parakalw poly k. Stamatopoyle, mhn epimenete. Enqymoymai poly kala. Akoyste, gia na kleisoyme to qema: Eixa anakoinwsei thn apofash poy elabe h Kybernhsh gia thn anaklhsh ths adeias afenos poy eixe paraxwrhqei kai th mh proodo toy diagwnismoy gia deyterh adeia. Kai bebaiws eixame pei oti qa lhfqoyn oi telikes apofaseis. An qa einai dyo oi adeies h an qa einai mia. Alla, tote eixa pei oti an einai mia h adeia qa afora to kazino ths Parnhqas. Loipon, na exoyme ta praktika ekeinwn twn hmerwn kai parakalw ayrio na epanelqoyme.

MOYRTZHS: H ka Basw Papandreoy eipe xqes: "dhmioyrghsame emporio elpidas me ta kazino". Poioys eixe apodektes ayth h parathrhsh ths kas Papandreoy; Eixe mhpws ton tews Prwqypoyrgo h ta proswpa poy eneplakhsan me ta kazino;

REPPAS: Kyrie Moyrtzh, na moy epitrecete na meinoyme sthn paradoxh oti einai mia qesh arxhs. Den prepei na kanoyme emporio me thn elpida twn politwn. Kai pisteyw oti tetoioy eidoys drasthriothtes prepei na einai elegxomenes. Prepei na einai periorismenes. Eipame kai apo tote oti h Kybernhsh den exei politikh kazino. Kai ayto epanalambanw.

MAYROS: Gia ta dyo kazino ths Makedonias den zhthse epanejetash twn synqhkwn leitoyrgias toys, paroti exoyn symbei kai ekei paratragoyda ta opoia epeshmane h idia h ka Papandreoy. Gnwrizete ean protiqetai na zhthsei epanejetash;

REPPAS: Kyrie Mayro, an anaferesqe se peristatika to opoia eginan prosfata, ayta einai ajiopoines prajeis poy qa apasxolhsoyn ta armodia organa. Apo ekei kai pera den yparxei tipota neotero gia th leitoyrgia twn kazino. Oi adeies exoyn doqei kai ta kazino leitoyrgoyn.

MAYROS: Kai gia to kazino ths Xalkidikhs ekkremei h diekdikhsh toy Dhmosioy gia to qema toy eishthrioy...

REPPAS: Opws kai gia to Loytraki. Asfalws. Ayto - eipame kai tote otan syzhtoysame leptomerws to qema twn kazino - einai kati poy apasxolei monimws tis Yphresies toy Ellhnikoy Kratoys, tis Oikonomikes Yphresies idiaiterws.

MAYROS: Gia to Loytraki milhse gia epanejetash, oxi mono logw toy antagwnismoy alla kai twn koinwnikwn problhmatwn poy dhmioyrghse, enw den symperielabe s' ayth thn epishmansh...

REPPAS: Kyrie Mayro, as meinoyme twra sthn epibebaiwsh oti h qesh ths Kybernhshs pws den exei politikh kazino sthn prajh apodeiknyetai oti einai mia swsth politikh. Thn opoia h Ellhnikh Kybernhsh einai diateqeimenh kai apofasismenh na akoloyqhsei kai sto mellon. Kai edw apodeiknyetai, ek twn pragmatwn, h synepeia ths Ellhnikhs Kybernhshs sthn politikh thn opoia tote ejhggeile.

KIAOS: Pantws, einai parejhghsimo ayto poy lete. H Kybernhsh den exei politikh sto qema twn kazino;

REPPAS: Exei dikio o k. Kiaos o opoios einai kalos gnwsths twn ellhnikwn. Kai thn ekfrash "politikh kazino" qa th qesoyme se eisagwgika. Me thn ennoia dhladh, oti h politikh mas den einai "kazinopolitikh", den einai "kazinotrafhs". Den einai - an qelete na to poyme etsi - "kazinopaideytikh kai kazinotrafhs".

KARAMPASHS: Shmera synedriazei h Koinh Epitroph ths Boylhs twn Antiproswpwn kai ths Geroysias twn HPA gia th Qrakh. Yparxei kati;

REPPAS: Den yparxei tipota kainoyrgio. Exei ginei systhmatikh ergasia kai h qesh mas einai gnwsth. Apla, ypenqymizw oti o k. Samaras, o opoios edwse tetoia ektash kai entash sto qema, ws Ypoyrgos Ejwterikwn htan aytos poy prwtos eixe ayth th syllhch kai faeinh idea. Na apotelesei, dhladh, to qema twn synqhkwn gia th moysoylmanikh meionothta sth Qrakh antikeimeno syzhthshs Epitrophs sto plaisio toy Organismoy Hnwmenwn Eqnwn. Metaballontas etsi, oysiastikws, me thn protash toy ekeinh, ena qema eswterikhs tajhs se dieqnes zhthma. As ta qymomaste ayta gia na mpoyroyme na bgazoyme, me pio swsto tropo, ta telika mas symperasmata peri toy poso peistikes, einai oi "agwniwdeis" prospaqeies pollwn politikwn na yperaspisqoyn ta eqnika symferonta, otan oi idioi, gia to idio akribws qema, alla eixan prajei.

MAYROS: Me Toyrko nomiko na antikroyei tis ellhnikes qeseis;

FILHS: Ellhnas, moysoylmanos dikhgoros einai. Apo to Dikhgoriko Syllogo Qrakhs.

MAYROS: Den hmoyna enhmerwmenos oti eprokeito gia nomiko ths moysoylmanikhs meionothtas.

REPPAS: Kyrie Mayro, den nomizw oti yparxei logos na paizoyme me orismena pragmata, giati to kryfto den einai gia thn hlikia mas. Exete apolyto dikio. Politika, exete dikio s' ayto poy lete. Giati to qema odhghqhke ekei oxi me dikh mas prwtoboylia. Einai logiko na ypoqetei kaneis kai na ektima oti ypokryptetai toyrkikos daktylos. Ayto eipe o k. Mayros. Loipon, yparxei toyrkikos daktylos. Kai den einai ena qema to opoio emas mas briskei symfwnoys. Alla qa to antimetwpisoyme giati exoyme empistosynh sta epixeirhmata mas. Mhn krybomaste.
Sas eyxaristw poly.