[01] "H kybernhsh exei sxedio"

Ayto epishmainei sth synenteyjh ths sto syntakth ths thleorashs toy APE-MPE Pano Hliakopoylo, h boyleyths Reqymnoy toy kybernwntos kommatos Olga Kefalogiannh, ypogrammizontas oti o ellhnikos laos qa krinei thn kybernhsh, qa krinei th Nea Dhmokratia me bash thn apotelesmatikothta ths ki afoy exei kataferei na oloklhrwsei to ergo ths.

H boyleyths Reqymnoy tonizei oti oso yparxei Karamanlhs den tiqetai qema hgesias sth Nea Dhmokratia, enw oson afora thn eswstrefeia ypenqymizei oti h paratajh ths exei perasei pragmatikes periodoys eswstrefeias ki ayth sigoyra den einai mia apo aytes

H Olga Kefalogiannh yposthrizei oti h kybernhsh exei sxedio gia thn krish poy basizetai se tria shmeia gia na antimetwpisei ta problhmata ths xwras, kathgorwntas parallhla to PASOK gia mia poly megalh aneyqynothta, enan laikismo, mia tash gia polwsh kai gia ojynsh toy politikoy klimatos.

H boyleyths Reqymnoy xarakthrizei ekqeseis idewn tis topoqethseis toy Giwrgoy Papandreoy gia thn krish xwris na apoteloyn ena sxedio, oi opoies paroxes einai akostologhtes kai se telikh analysh ayto den shmainei tipota.

To plhres keimeno ths synenteyjhs ths Olgas Kefalogiannh exei ws ejhs:

ER: Kyria Kefalogiannh, opws deixnoyn oi teleytaies dhmoskophseis telika ejanemisqhkan h sxedon ejanemisqhkan ta ofelh toy anasxhmatismoy. To PASOK opws isxyrizontai ta koryfaia stelexh toy exei pagiwsei th diafora poy deixnoyn mexri stigmhs oi dhmoskophseis. Pisteyete oti mporei na anastrafei ayto to klima shmera;

AP: Eimai para poly prosektikh panta otan milame gia dhmoskophseis. Kai panta hmoyn akomh ki otan h Nea Dhmokratia fainotan sthn proqesh chfoy mprosta. Ki ayto, dioti einai safes oti ektos apo thn proqesh chfoy ayto poy mas endiaferei einai ta poiotika stoixeia kaqe dhmoskophshs. Ki ap' oti fainetai sta poiotika stoixeia h Nea Dhmokratia exei mia yperoxh. Synexizei na qewreitai katallhloteros prwqypoyrgos o Kwstas Karamanlhs enanti toy Gewrgioy Papandreoy. Epomenws, otan qa prepei na ermhneysoyme tis dhmoskophseis, qa prepei na koitame ki ayta ta megeqh. Oxi mono ayto poy exoyme synhqisei na blepoyme, mono th diafora sta megeqh ths proqeshs chfoy. Nomizw oti einai safes, h Nea Dhmokratia ayth th stigmh pernaei thn pio dyskolh periodo apo th stigmh poy anelabe th diakybernhsh ths xwras, to 2004. Pername mesa apo mia poly dyskolh oikonomikh sygkyria, dieqnh oikonomikh dyskolia kai nomizw oti to krisimo stoixeio se kaqe dhmoskophsh den einai mono h proqesh chfoy, alla kai ta poiotika xarakthristika. Koitame ayta. Alla, bebaiws ayto poy mas deixnoyn oi dhmoskophseis sigoyro einai oti prepei kai na proxwrhsoyme pio grhgora, alla kai na fainetai pio apto to apotelesma toy ergoy mas.

ER: Einai apeilhtiko to shmeio twn dhmoskophsewn sto sygkekrimeno megeqos poy anaferqhkate prohgoymenws. H diafora metajy Kwsta Karamanlh kai Giwrgoy Papandreoy. Ki ekei h calida exei arxisei na kleinei;

AP: Synexizei omws na einai katallhloteros prwqypoyrgos o Kwstas Karamanlhs. Pisteyw oti ayto einai oytws h allws to isxyro xarti gia mas ayth th stigmh. Sas janalew oti tis dhmoskophseis tis blepw, alla eimai para poly prosektikh otan tis diabazw kai eimai para poly prosektikh sto poso kateyqynoyn to ti prepei na kanoyme. Nomizw oti den prepei na mas apoprosanatolizei oti h kybernhsh pernaei mia dyskolh fash. Omws prepei na proxwrhsei sto ergo ths, prepei na proxwrhsei me to programma ths kai telika qa kalesoyme ton ellhniko lao na mas krinei sto telos ths tetraetias.

ER: H pagkosmia oikonomikh krish omologoymenws epiteinei ta sysswreymena poy yphrxan ki apo palaiotera problhmata. H kybernhsh kanei prospaqeies. Enocei loipon twn eklogwn poy eipate, ocepote ginoyn aytes, qewreitai to "paixnidi" ayto basei twn dhmoskophsewn lhjan h yparxei periqwrio na eiste pali eseis to prwto komma;

AP: Sas janalew. To "paixnidi" opws to lete qa lhjei monon otan qa ginoyn ekloges. Kai pisteyw oti mexri tote h Nea Dhmokratia qa exei kataferei na oloklhrwsei to ergo ths. Qa exei kataferei na oloklhrwsei to programma ths ki o kosmos qa mas krinei me bash thn apotelesmatikothta mas me bash thn eyqynh me thn opoia exoyme antimetwpisei ta problhmata ths xwras. Blepw apo thn allh mia poly megalh aneyqynothta, enan laikismo, mia tash gia polwsh kai gia ojynsh toy politikoy klimatos. Nomizw oti ayto o kosmos den to blepei qetika kai qa apodeixqei oti telika ayto den einai lysh gia th diakybernhsh ths xwras. H Nea Dhmokratia einai h monh lysh eyqynhs.

ER: Milhsate prohgoymenws kai eseis gia diakybernhsh tetraetias. O prwqypoyrgos xqes ekleise kathgorhmatika to qema twn prowrwn eklogwn. Yparxei periptwsh aifnidiasmoy;

AP: Qa sas pw mia apoch poy exw kai einai h pagia qesh moy. To Syntagma problepei kybernhseis tetraetias. Problepei ena diasthma tetoio gia na mporesei kapoios na efarmosei na oloklhrwsei ena programma gia to opoio exei chfisqei apo ton kosmo. Gia na mporesoyme ki emeis toylaxiston ki ws boyleytes poy eklegomaste gia mia tetraeth qhteia. O kaqenas apo mas na kanei ayta ta opoia exei balei sto programma toy kai gia ta opoia zhthse th chfo toy kosmoy. Nomizw oti qa prepei sthn Ellada na arxisoyme na sebomaste ayth thn tetraeth qhteia poy problepetai apo to Syntagma na eimaste pio konta stoys qesmoys. Dioti sto Syntagma opws jerete mono gia ejairetikoys logoys problepetai h prosfygh stis kalpes se diasthma ligotero apo thn oloklhrwsh ths tetraetias. Nomizw oti ayth th dynatothta poy dinei to Syntagma prepei na th sebomaste pio poly ki oxi na thn epikaloymaste kaqe ligo kai ligaki. Oxi toso aytoi poy exoyn thn eyqynh diakybernhshs, oso oi dhmosiografoi ki o kosmos poy anarwtietai pote qa ginoyn oi epomenes ekloges. Oi epomenes ekloges prepei na ginoyn otan oloklhrwqei h tetraetia, otan qa mporesei mia kybernhsh -opoia kybernhsh ki an einai- na oloklhrwsei to programma ths. Epiteloys as eimaste qesmikoi.

ER: H antipoliteysh epikaleitai kai isxyrizetai oti exei to sxedio gia ejodo apo th shmerinh dieqnh oikonomikh krish. Ennowntas thn prowrh prosfygh stis kalpes. Ayto exei ena oikonomiko kostos. Endexomenws, na xreiastoyn kai deyteres ekloges. Ayto to endexomeno mporei na to antejei h oikonomia; Mporei na to antejei o topos; Poia einai h ektimhsh sas;

AP: Nomizw ayto poy eidame einai oti h antipoliteysh den exei kapoio sygkekrimeno sxedio drashs. Ayta apo akoysame apo to Giwrgo Papandreoy einai gia mena san ekqeseis idewn xwris kapoia pragmatikh protash, xwris na apoteloyn ena sxedio oyte gia to pws qa bgoyme apo thn krish, oyte telos pantwn poio qa htan to sxedio toy proedroy toy PASOK an analambane th diakybernhsh ths xwras. Blepw mia poly megalh aneyqynothta apo meroys toys kai opoiesdhpote paroxes gia tis opoies exei milhsei einai pantote akostologhtes kai jerete poly kala oti ayto se telikh analysh den shmainei tipota. Dioti otan exeis mia terastia krish kai prospaqeis poly syneta na baleis ta pragmata sth qesh toys exontas ena poly sygkekrimeno sxedio, opws exei h kybernhsh. To sxedio soy perilambanei kai pws qa qwrakiseis thn oikonomia., alla kai pws qa bohqhseis toys oikonomika asqenesteroys. Toys sympolites mas poy exoyn perissoterh anagkh. Ayto opws jerete prepei pantote na einai kostologhmeno. Prepei na einai pantote sto plaisio enos proypologismoy poy prepei na fereis se peras. Den mporeis aplws na les pragmata ston aera, opws fainetai na leei o Giwrgos Papandreoy. Kai sigoyra otan prepei oloi mazi ayth th stigmh na doyme pws qa bgei h xwra, h dikia mas, apo thn krish, opws oi oles kybernhseis olwn twn kratwn ayto koitane. Nomizw oti to teleytaio pragma poy prepei na exoyme einai eswstrefeia politikh. To teleytaio pragma poy prepei na exoyme einai ena oxi se ola. Kai sigoyra to teleytaio pragma poy xreiazomaste ayth th stigmh einai ekloges.

ER: Milhsate prohgoymenws gia eswstrefeia. Na pame kai sthn kommatikh eswstrefeia. An pame se ekloges kai xasei to komma sas, xasei h Nea Dhmokratia qa teqei qema arxhgoy toy kommatos giati polla grafontai to teleytaio diasthma, polla akoygontai;

AP: Moy kanete mia erwthsh panw se dyo ypoqetikes baseis. Egw qa sas apanthsw jekaqara. Oso yparxei Karamanlhs den tiqetai qema hgesias sth Nea Dhmokratia. Oson afora sthn eswstrefeia na qymisw oti h Nea Dhmokratia exei perasei pragmatikes periodoys eswstrefeias ki ayth sigoyra den einai mia apo aytes. O Karamanlhs to 1997 an kati katafere kai gia to opoio h paratajh qa prepei na toy einai pantote eygnwmwn, einai oti katafere analambanontas ta hnia ths paratajhs se mia epoxh poy htan pragmatika dyskolh e mia epoxh poy yphrxe mia poly entonh eswstrefeia- na mas enwsei oloys kai na proxwrhsoyme oloi mazi kai sto na analabei h Nea Dhmokratia th diakybernhsh ths xwras, alla kai ws paratajh na proxwrhsoyme mprosta. Pisteyw oti ayto pistwnetai ston Karamanlh ap' oloys mas. Ayth th stigmh apo toys 151 boyleytes poy exei o Karamanlhs, kanenas den mporei na skefqei oti qa pei h qa kanei kati poy qa blacei ton Karamanlh, thn kybernhsh h thn paratajh. Apo ekei kai pera jerete oti yparxei mia lepth grammh anamesa sthn kommatikh peiqarxia -sthn opoia egw pisteyw giati oloi mas eklegomaste me th shmaia enos kommatos- kai sto dikaiwma kai sthn ypoxrewsh mas na exoyme mia apoch endexomenws kapoies fores diaforetikh. Qa prepei na eimaste oloi kai prosektikoi sto pws diatypwnoyme ayth thn apoch, alla nomizw oti kai ta MME mas exoyn synhqisei sto oti perimenoyn sth gwnia molis kapoios ekfrasei mia diaforetikh apoch na pei oti antipoliteyomaste. Oxi. Aplws mporei na qeloyme ki emeis na exoyme mia protash pros thn kybernhsh diaforetikh apo ayth poy mporei na exei teqei sto trapezi.

ER: Polysyllektikos xwros apocewn h Nea Dhmokratia dhladh...

AP: Ma nomizw ena komma ofeilei na einai. Kai sas lew. Pisteyw oti h paratajiakh syneidhsh yparxei se oloys mas kai oti o Karamanlhs mas enwnei oloys.

ER: H shmerinh kybernhsh ypo ton Kwsta Karamanlh ektimatai oti qa mporesei na bgalei th xwra apo th shmerinh oikonomikh krish me oso to dynaton mikroteres apwleies; Kai qa hqela akomh na rwthsw poio einai to sxedio poy diaqetei h kybernhsh sas kai sas kathgorei h antipoliteysh oti den exete;

AP: To sxedio nomizw oti einai safes. To exei o prwqypoyrgos kai sth Boylh, alla kai ektos Boylhs paroysiasei. Kineitai se treis basikoys ajones:

To ena prwta ap' ola einai na ejasfalisoyme oti h xwra mas qa exei qetiko ryqmo anaptyjhs. Opws fainetai akomh kai me tis probleceis ths Eyrwpaikhs Enwshs -poy einai pantote pio epifylaktikes- fainetai oti h Ellada qa synexisei na exei ena qetiko ryqmo anaptyjhs se antiqesh me polles alles eyrwpaikes xwres poy eixan paroysiasei kaloys ryqmoys anaptyjhs ta teleytaia xronia kai fainetai twra oti qa exoyn arnhtikoys tetoioys ryqmoys. Koitame ayto prwta ap' ola: sto na exei qetiko proshmo h anaptyjh sth xwra mas. Ayto ginetai kai me thn prospaqeia poy kataballetai kai gia thn enisxysh twn mikromesaiwn epixeirhsewn.

O deyteros stoxos einai h anergia na kinhqei se oso to dynaton pio xamhla epipeda kai na mhn exoyme apolyseis, alla kai na ejasfalisoyme oso ginetai kai kainoyrgies qeseis ergasias.

To trito bebaiws einai h koinwnikh synoxh. H sthrijh twn oikonomika asqenesterwn. H sthrijh aytwn twn sympolitwn mas poy exoyn thn anagkh kai ths kratikhs pronoias.

ER: Na perasoyme twra kai sta qemata ths idiaiteras patridas sas. Prosfata oi sympatriwtes sas, oi synteknoi sas na to pw etsi, efqasan mexri thn Aqhna. Omologoymenws exoyn problhmata. Exoyn aithmata. Epestrecan... Pisteyete oti h kybernhsh toys ikanopoihse se ola ta aithmata kai tis ekkremothtes poy exoyn;

AP: Na sas pw prwta ap' ola oti oi agrotes poy breqhkan sto limani toy Peiraia den ekproswpoyn toys agrotes olhs ths Krhths. Nomizw oti ta problhmata yparxoyn men, alla yparxoyn ki alloi tropoi gia na ta diekdikei kaneis. Kai fanhke oti aytoi oi anqrwpoi pragmatika den htan aytoi poy noiazontan toso poly gia ta problhmata twn agrotwn, oso to na dhmioyrghsoyn qorybo. Kai apo th stash toys, otan o ypoyrgos Agrotikhs Anaptyjhs toys kalese sto ypoyrgeio gia syzhthsoyn ta problhmata ayta epelejan to dromo ths fyghs. Emeis ta problhmata toy tomea aytoy, toy prwtogenoys tomea ta jeroyme kai eidika gia to Reqymno oi portes toy ypoyrgeioy einai pantote anoiktes. Me tis Enwseis exoyme episkeftei para polles fores to ypoyrgeio ki exoyme dwsei lysh sta problhmata toys. Nomizw oti ektos apo to na blepoyme ayth th stigmh kapoia problhmata poy yparxoyn -ayth th stigmh- sthn timh toy elaioladoy poy einai ejairetika xamhlh ki ontws oi paragwgoi exoyn poly dikio na paraponoyntai oti prepei na yparjei mia sthrijh s' ayto. Prepei na skeftoyn poies htan oi kybernhseis ekeines poy egklwbisan toys agrotes s' ayto to kaqestws twn eyrwpaikwn enisxysewn, twn epidothsewn. Den bohqhsan toys agrotes na ginoyn sygxronoi epixeirhmaties. Den bohqhsan toys agrotes na eksygxronisqoyn na doyn diaforetika thn paragwgh. Egw qelw na sas dwsw ena paradeigma gia to pws kai oi Enwseis qa mporoysan na leitoyrgoyn kalytera, poy den exoyn leitoyrghsei se kaqe periptwsh pantoy. Emeis sto Reqymno exoyme mia sthrijh apo tis Enwseis ston kthnotrofo poy toy dinoyn 1,2 eyrw ana litro sto gala. Ayto eynoei kai ton kthnotrofo, alla kai tis Enwseis oi opoies apo ekei kai pera kanoyn kai metapoihsh toy proiontos kai analambanoyn oles tis diadikasies gia thn prowqhsh toy. Ayto qa eprepe na exoyn kanei kai oi Enwseis mexri stigmhs. Emeis jeroyme para poly kala giati exei onomatepwnymo. Kapoios gnwstos kyrios ths Enwshs sto Hrakleio eixe koroidecei toys agrotes ths Krhths. Epairne to ladi toys se para poly xamhlh timh kai de frontise tosa xronia na kanei tipota gia th metapoihsh toy kai thn prowqhsh toy sto ejwteriko. Ta problhmata loipon den dhmioyrghqhkan shmera. Ta problhmata dhmioyrghqhkan apo kybernhseis poy eblepan teleiws diaforetika ton agroth. Emeis qeloyme opws sas eipa ton agroth na ginei enas sygxronos epixeirhmatias. Qeloyme na ton sthrijoyme oxi monon dinontas toy shmera ki ayrio kati parapanw gia na mporesei na sthrijei to proion toy, alla sthrizontas ton pragmatika gia na mporesei na antagwnistei kai ton Eyrwpaio kai to dieqnh antagwnisth toy.

ER: H Krhth peran apo thn agrotikh drasthriothta, asxoleitai se megalo baqmo poy einai basikos moxlos anaptyjhs kai gia thn Eqnikh mas Oikonomia, me ton toyrismo. Poia einai ta mhnymata poy pairnete; Ti lene oi sympatriwtes sas; Ti perimenoyn na ginei fetos logw kai ths dieqnoys oikonomikhs krishs;

AP: Qa symfwnhsw mazi sas oti o Toyrismos sthrizei pragmatika thn oikonomia oxi mono ths Krhths, alla oloklhrhs ths Elladas kai sigoyra qa einai ena apo ta megala stoixhmata gia emas toylaxiston na mporesoyme na krathsoyme ton toyrismo toylaxiston se kapoia epipeda, ychla. Fainetai oti... yparxei mia meiwsh stis prokrathseis, alla mporoyme na exoyme mia aisiodojia sto oti teleytaia stigmh qa anatrapei ayto to klima poy exei dhmioyrghqei ayth th stigmh. Ayto bebaia ejartatai apo oloys emas. Ejartatai kai apo toys toyristikoys epixeirhmaties kai m' oloys aytoys poy asxoloyntai sto kommati ayto twn yphresiwn toy toyrismoy, wste na mporoyme na prosferoyme ki ena proion to opoio na einai pragmatika antagwnistiko. Opoios qa elqei sth xwra mas na pei oti qelei na janaerqei giati kai oi times qa einai kales kai oti oi yphresies poy prosferoyme qa einai ej' isoy kales.

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