Antenna: Demirel Interview in Greek, 97-05-23

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From: Antenna Radio <http://www.antenna.gr> - email: antenna@compulink.gr

Synenteyjh Ntemirel ston Politiko syntakth Niko Meggrelh

To prwto meros ths synenteyjhs toy Toyrkoy Proedroy Soyleiman Ntemirel ston ANTENNA kai ston politiko syntakth Niko Meggrelh, qa metadoqei sta NEA TOY ANTENNA stis 20:20.

To deytero meros ths synenteyjhs qa metadoqei ayrio (24.5.97) sta NEA TOY ANTENNA stis 20:20.

Nea wqhsh sthn ellhnotoyrkikh proseggish dinei h apokleistikh synenteyjh toy Toyrkoy proedroy Soyleiman Ntemirel sthn thleorash toy ANT-1 poy qa metadoqei apoce to brady kai dhlwnei etoimos na ypogracei me thn Ellada symfwno mh epiqeshs.

O Ypoyrgos Ejwterikwn Qeodwros Pagkalos se erwthsh toy ANTENNA xarakthrise poly shmantikh ejelijh mia tetoia protash ek m'eroys ths Toyrkias ean ayto shmainei opws eipe, oti egkataleipetai xwris oroys kai proypoqeseis h Toyrkikh apeilh polemoy sthn epektash twn Ellhnikwn xwrikwn ydatwn sta 12 milia.

O k.Pagkalos anaferomenos stis epitropes empeirognwmonwn dhlwse oti to Ellhniko mnhmonio qa apostalei th Deytera sthn Ollandikh proedria.O ypoyrgos shmeiwse oti h Ellhnikh pleyra epiqymei diakaws lysh sta Ellhnotoyrkika problhmata qa prepei omws na melethqei to Toyrkiko mnhmonio gia na bgoyn symperasmata.

Thn Kyriakh erxetai sthn Aqhna o toyrkos yfypoyrgos Ejwterikwn Onoyr Oimen o opoios qa parei meros se hmerida me qema tis ellhnotoyrkikes sxeseis.

Akoloyqei to keimeno ths synenteyjhs

N. MEGGRELHS: Eyxaristw poly kyrie Proedre poy antapokriqhkate sthn prosklhsh mas kai mas dinete ayth th synenteyjh.

Epitrecte moy na elqw kateyqeian sto qema. Fainetai pws h atmosfaira stis sxeseis Elladas- Toyrkias exei beltiwqei se sxesh me to parelqon.

Eginan synanthseis anamesa stoys ypoyrgoys Ejwterikwn ton k. Pagkalo kai thn kyria Tsiler, ton G. Papandreoy kai ton Oimen.

Yparxoyn epishs oi epitropes twn empeirognwmonwn twn dyo xwrwn.

Ayth einai h mia pleyra toy nomismatos. Apo thn allh yparxoyn polla qemata poy traymatizoyn tis sxeseis twn dyo xwrwn.

Symfwna me th dikh sas apoch se poia qemata mporoyn na beltiwqoyn oi sxeseis twn dyo xwrwn;

SOYLE'I'MAN NTEMIREL: Einai alhqeia pws yparxoyn merika qemata kai problhmata anamesa sthn Ellada kai sthn Toyrkia. Polla ap' ayta den emfanisthkan prosfata. Einai palies istories kai yparxoyn polla xronia. Ayto poy prepei na kanoyme einai anti na xeirotereyoyme ayta ta qemata na broyme lyseis gia ayta kai an den mporesoyme na broyme tis apanthseis nomizw pws qa prepei na zoyme me ayta mexri na broyme th lysh toys. Kai sto metajy qa prepei na synexisoyme na synergazomaste s' ependyseis, sto emporio sthn texnh, ston aqlhtismo. Me ton kairo qa prospaqhsoyme na broyme lyseis gia ta alla problhmata.

Qelw na pw to ejhs. Sth xwra mas, sthn eswterikh politikh mas zwh ta dika mas kommata gia polla xronia den ekanan qema ta problhmata poy exoyn h Toyrkia me thn Ellada.

An ta kaneis eswterika qemata einai dyskolo na exeis thn eyelijia kai na lyseis ayta ta problhmata.

Ayto poy prepei na didaskomaste panta einai pws prepei na syzhtame ta problhmata mas.

Eida ton k. Shmith sth Rwsia perysi sth synanthsh poy egine me thn eykairia ths Pareyjeinias Synergasias. Argotera synanthqhkame pali sth Lissabona kai to anefera pali.

Nomizw pws oi sxeseis twn dyo xwrwn einai kapws kalyteres, qa prepei na synanthqoyn oi dyo pleyres kai toylaxiston qa prepei na milhsoyn.

N.MEGGRELHS: Ennoeite oti eiste etoimos gia mia tet-a-tet gia mia synanthsh me thn ellhnikh politikh hgesia;

NTEMIREL: H alhqeia einai pws den aporriptw ayto. Ayto poy lew einai na syzhthsoyme gia ayta ta qemata se ola ta epipeda kai meta an noiwqoyme pws qa bohqhsei sth beltiwsh twn sxesewn mas kai na aisqanesqe kai eseis kai to idio, nomizw pws prepei na jekinhsoyme na syzhtame ta problhmata.

MEGGRELHS: H Ellada exei kanei polla gia th beltiwsh twn sxesewn ths me thn Toyrkia. O k. Pagkalos exei dhlwsei pws h qesh ths Toyrkias einai sthn Eyrwph, kati poy kammia allh eyrwpaikh xwra den to exei kanei me tetoia safhneia. Kata th gnwmh sas ti allo qa mporoyse na kanei h Ellada idiaitera otan yparxei h apeilh polemoy, symfwna me thn apofash ths Boylhs sas;

NTEMIREL: Poia einai h apeilh polemoy;

MEGGRELHS: Apeileite pws an h Ellada epekteinei ta xwrika ths ydata sta 12 milia qa einai aitia polemoy.

NTEMIREL: Ayto den einai kainoyrgio. Yparxei arketa xronia. H alhqeia einai pws ayto poy prospaqei na pei h Toyrkia einai oti einai zwtikhs shmasias gia th xwra mas an ginei to Aigaio limnh ths Elladas.

Ayto to syzhthsa to 1975 sto Belgio me ton tote prwqypoyrgo ton k. Karamanlh. An ginei to Aigaio limnh ths Elladas, tote h Toyrkia den qa exei th dynatothta na bgei stis anoiktes qalasses. Se ayth thn periptwsh ti qa prepei na kanei h Toyrkia; H Toyrkia dinei emfash se ayto giati einai poly shmantiko.

MEGGRELHS: Ayto omws traymatizei tis sxeseis twn dyo xwrwn otan lete, pws qa "kanoyme polemo". Einai poly dyskolo sthn allh pleyra na kanei kinhseis kalhs qelhshs.

NTEMIREL: Otan milame gia polemo, o polemos einai kati poly dyskolo kai ektos aytoy exoyme anaferei polles fores pws dexomaste na lysoyme ta problhmata me dialogo, me eirhnika mesa kai eirhniko tropo.

Prepei na to labete kai ayto ypoch sas. H Toyrkia den mporei na aposyrei tis diekdikhseis ths gia thn Aigalitida zwnh. An epekteineta ta xwrika sas ydata apo 6 se 12 milia tote h Toyrkia den qa exei prosbash sth qalassa.

MEGGRELHS: Den nomizw oti yparxei proqesh apo thn ellhnikh pleyra na kanei to Aigaio ellhnikh limnh.

NTEMIREL: To apofasise kai h dikh sas Boylh.

MEGGRELHS: Ayto to dikaiwma to edwse to Dieqnes Dikaio.

NTEMIREL: Isws, alla to perasate. Ayto poy prospaqw na pw einai pws ayto to qema h opoiodhpote allo den qa ta xrhsimopoihsoyme gia na xeiroterecoyme to problhma. Ayto poy leme einai pws prepei na ta syzhthsoyme ola. Ola ta qemata poy mas aforoyn, alla oxi ena-ena....

MEGGRELHS: Alla gia na syzhthsoyme omws xreiazomaste ena plaisio. Wste na arxisoyme th syzhthsh me ena koino shmeio anaforas. Ayto to plaisio den einai to Dieqnes Dikaio kai oi synqhkes poy yparxoyn dieqneis nomoi kai synqhkes;

NTEMIREL: Anamesa se dyo xwres yparxoyn dieqneis nomoi kai synqhkes. Yparxei h Synqhkh ths Lwzanhs, h opoia kaqorizei ta synora sth steria kai ta problhmata poy yparxoyn.

Otan omws erxomaste sth qalassa yparxoyn orismena problhmata. Pisteyw pws otan yparxei diaqesh gia eilikrinh dialogo prepei na ginei symfwna me toys kanones toy Organismoy Hnwmenwn Eqnwn.

MEGGRELHS: Epeidh o k. Gilmaz sto parelqon eixe amfisbhthsei th Synqhkh ths Lwzanhs, qa hqela mia jekaqarh topoqethsh. Dexeste th Synqhkh ths Lwzanhs ws exei h qa qelate na th diapragmateyteite ek neoy;

NTEMIREL: Nai, paramenei ws exei. H Synqhkh ths Lwzanhs efere kapoies isorropies. Oson afora th Dytikh Qrakh yparxoyn orismenes parabiaseis ths Synqhkhs.

Pisteyw oti aytes oi parabiaseis prepei na ejaleifqoyn gia tis moysoylmanikes - toyrkikes meionothtes. Prepei na exoyn th metaxeirish isotimwn politwn sas basei twn nomwn sas kai basei ths Synqhkhs ths Lwzanhs.

MEGGRELHS: Nai, alla o moysoylmanikos plhqysmos sth Dytikh Qrakh exei ayjhqei apo 70.000 se 120.000. Na epishmanw oti o ellhnoorqodojos plhqysmos sthn Kwnstantinoypolh kai se alles perioxes exei meiwqei para poly.

NTEMIREL: Den nomizw oti exoyn kammia sxesh metajy toys. Yphrxan Ellhnes polites toyrkikhs yphkoothtas. Ti mporoyme na kanoyme poy efygan; Yparxoyn omws sth Dytikh Qrakh toyrkikhs katagwghs moysoylmanoi sthn Ellada. Ean qeloyn na meinoyn ekei, nomizw oti prepei na meinoyn.

MEGGRELHS: As epistrecoyme sta qalassia synora, giati einai ena shmeio poy traymatizei tis sxeseis twn dyo xwrwn. To problhma twn xwrikwn ydatwn anefyei to 1974. Prin apo ayto den eixate egeirei tetoio qema. Giati ejelixqhke se problhma ekeinh th xronia;

NTEMIREL: H Toyrkia htan panta poly prosektikh se oti afora thn aigialitida zwnh. Epishs htan panta prosektikh me ta dieqnh ydata. To Aigaio qa eprepe na einai dieqnh ydata kai na exei h Toyrkia eleyqerh prosbash sto Aigaio. Gia ayto to logo teqhke qema. To qema ths yfalokrhpidas egine problhma meta tis ereynes poy eginan sto Aigaio, kyriws gia petrelaio to 1974, to 1975 kai 1976.

Pisteyw pws h Toyrkia kai h Ellada mporoyn na broyn lysh ston orismo ths yfalokrhpidas sto Aigaio. Kapoia mera isws broyn kapoioys tropoys kai mesa na ejereynhsoyn kai na ekmetalleytoyn apo koinoy.

MEGGRELHS: Giati de dexeste omws na pate sto Dieqnes Dikasthrio ths Xaghs; Symfwna me ta arxeia toy k. Karamanlh eixate symfwnhsei se ayto to 1976.

NTEMIREL: Prin fqasoyme sto Dieqnes Dikasthrio prepei prwta na exoyme kati gia na to pame sto Dikasthrio. Oi diplwmates mas syzhthsan to problhma amoibaia kai den kataferan na symfwnhsoyn se kati wste na fqasoyme sto Dikasthrio.

MEGGRELHS: Eiste diateqeimenoi na janarxisete tis diapragmateyseis apo thn arxh;

NTEMIREL: Opws eipe kai o k. Gilmaz prin apo ena xrono peripoy, eimaste anoixtoi sto na lysoyme ola ta problhmata mas me thn Ellada. H prosklhsh gia dialogo isxyei akoma kai shmera.

MEGGRELHS: Oson afora tis legomenes, kat esas, gkrizes perioxes, poy einai ena allo shmeio tribhs...

NTEMIREL: Pisteyw oti yparxoyn gkrizes perioxes, poy legontai braxonhsides, alla kai to problhma twn gkrizwn perioxwn prepei na lyqei anamesa stis xwres mas. Prepei na syzhthqei kai na lyqei. Eimaste proqymoi na kanoyme dialogo.

MEGGRELHS: Giati omws ayto to qema emfanisqhke to 1996 me thn krish twn Imia;

NTEMIREL: Ayto to qema yphrxe panta. Yphrxe sth dekaetia toy '50, akoma kai sth dekaetia toy '30 kai argotera. Otan mia mera h Ellada arxise na katalabmanei aytes tis braxonhsides kai ta nhsia, na epoikizei ayta ta nhsia, tote proekyce.

An h Ellada den eixe proxwrhsei ston epoikismo aytwn twn nhsiwn, den einai akribws nhsia, einai nhsakia, peripoy 130 braxonhsides kai nhsakia. Kata th gnwmh mas h kyriothta aytwn twn nhsiwn einai anoixth.

MEGGRELHS: Mporw na antilhfqw oti isxyrizeste osa isxyrizeste gia ta Imia epeidh briskontai konta sthn Toyrkia. H Gaydos omws, poy einai poly makria apo thn Toyrkia kai poly konta sthn Krhth, giati ayto to mikro nhsi...

NTEMIREL: Einai ena memonwmeno peristatiko. Den prepei na to genikeyete. Ayto poy leme omws einai elate na to syzhthsete. Prepei na to syzhthsoyme. An to syzhthsoyme, pisteyw oti qa breqei mia logikh lysh.

MEGGRELHS: Giati lete oti prepei na yparjei dialogos me thn Ellada kai arneiste na pate sto Dieqnes Dikasthrio, h se kapoioy alloy eidoys diaithsia;

NTEMIREL: As syzhthsoyme prwta, isws fqasoyme se kapoia symperasmata. Isws broyme kapoies lyseis. Giati fobomaste o enas ton allon; As syzhthsoyme.

MEGGRELHS: Pisteyw oti einai dyskolo na syzhthsoyme, otan fqanete sto shmeio akoma kai ena nhsaki poy einai poly konta sthn Krhth, na isxyrizeste oti einai toyrkiko nhsi.

NTEMIREL: Mhn to pairnete etsi. Ayto einai ena apo ta problhmata. Otan ta syzhthsoyme ola mazi isws broyme kapoies logikes lyseis.

MEGGRELHS: Qa kanate to idio an eisastan sth qesh ths Elladas; An eixate kapoia nhsia poy qewroysate ellhnika qa erxosastan na syzhthsete me kapoion poy qa isxyrizotan oti den einai dika sas;

NTEMIREL: Ayto poy proteinoyme einai o dialogos. Eseis moy lete na mhn syzhthsoyme. Egw lew na kaqhsoyme gyrw apo ena trapezi se kapoio epipedo kai na arxisoyn oi laoi mas na syzhtoyn. Meta mporei na anebei ena epipedo kai meta prepei na prospaqhsoyme na broyme kapoies lyseis se orismena problhmata. An den broyme lyseis gia ola ta problhmata, isws broyme toylaxiston gia merika apo ayta. Proteinoyme dialogo. Eimaste anoixtoi sto dialogo.

MEGGRELHS: Gia sas isxyei akoma h Synqhkh poy afora ta Dwdekanhsa;

NTEMIREL: Nai opwsdhpote.

MEGGRELHS: Mia teleytaia erwthsh sxetika me tis legomenes "gkrizes perioxes". Giati den exei katasthsei safes ws twra h Toyrkia poia nhsia qewrei oti anhkoyn stis legomenes "gkrizes perioxes".

NTEMIREL: Pisteyw oti h Toyrkia ta gnwrizei. An kapoios qelei na maqei poia einai sigoyra h Toyrkia qa ta anakoinwsei.

MEGGRELHS: Qa symfwnoysate se ena symfwno mh epiqeshs me thn Ellada;

NTEMIREL: Nai. Malista eixa proteinei mia tetoia symfwnia ston k. Mhtsotakh, ena symfwno kalhs geitonias kai synergasias.

MEGGRELHS: To qymamai. Sthn Kwnstantinoypolh to 1992.

NTEMIREL: Qa pw to ejhs. Den yparxei exqrothta edw apenanti sthn Ellada.

Pote den ekmetalleythkame (sto eswteriko ths xwras) tis sxeseis mas me thn Ellada. Dystyxws omws, sthn Ellada oi politikoi sas xrhsimopoihsan ayta ta qemata kai dhmioyrghsan mia exqrothta apenanti sthn Toyrkia. Ayto den einai swsto. Eimaste geitones.

Prepei na zhsoyme ws geitonikes xwres. Arga h grhgora, qa prepei na broyme lyseis kai na exoyme filikes sxeseis. Filikes sxeseis anamesa sthn Ellada kai thn Toyrkia einai pros to symferon kai twn dyo xwrwn kai twn allwn geitonikwn xwrwn kai ths Eyrwphs.

MEGGRELHS: Qa hqela na epistrecw sthn progoymenh erwthsh moy. Shmainei oti eiste etoimoi ayth th stigmh na proteinete ena symfwno mh epiqeshs me thn Ellada;

NTEMIREL: Eimaste etoimoi na beltiwsoyme tis sxeseis mas me thn Ellada arxizontas dialogo kai pairnontas ola ta anagkaia metra. Gia o,ti proteiname sto parelqon kratame to logo mas.

© ANT1 Radio 1997

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