MAK-NEWS 21/12/95 (M.I.C.)

From: "M.I.C." <mic@ITL.MK>

Macedonian Information Centre Directory

CONTENTS

SKOPJE, DECEMBER 21, 1995 (MIC)

[01] INTERVIEW WITH THE PRESIDENT OF THE REPUBLIC OF MACEDONIA KIRO GLIGOROV FOR TOMORROW'S EDITION OF "NOVA MAKEDONIJA"

The President of the Republic of Macedonia Kiro Gligorov gave an exclusive interview for the news editions of "Nova Makedonija." This is the President's first interview since the attempt on his life on October 3rd, this year, on the street "Makedonija" in Skopje.

President Gligorov received the general director of the news publishing company "Nova Makedonija" Pande Kolemishevski in his reception cabinet in his villa on Vodno. In the longer discussion, the President answered a number of questions connected with Macedonia's international position today and the current social, political and economic situation in the country.

December 21, 1995

NM: Mr. President, it has been more than two and a half months since the terrorist attack on your life, in which you received heavier injuries. This act shocked the Macedonian public and was condemned in the most severe way. Every Macedonian citizen, with the most sincerest wishes for your full recovery, would ask You, at this moment, how you are feeling after those dramatic days for you personally, your family, the citizens and the Republic of Macedonia at large?

Kiro Gligorov: "Thank you, I am feeling very well. I passed through a truly difficult period, I managed to overcome it and now I am preparing to fully return to my presidential duties. This was the biggest trauma for my family, but their love, concern and self-composition were crucial for my recovery. I am sorry they had to go through such pain, I am lucky to have such a family. Otherwise, this terrorist act faced us with the fact that violence and attempts on the lives of others are still existing threats in our regions.

NM: The majority assessments about the assassination attempt say that the organizers had political motives, i.e. an assassination on the peace and stability in our state, and broader in the region. There were also opinions that it was an attempt to change the political and international course of the state, to install a "vassal" authority, as well as the involvement of large financial interests.

What is your opinion and what are your suppositions about the possible motives of the organizers of the assassination attempt?

Kiro Gligorov: "I wouldn't like to speculate, especially not until the investigation comes up with some specific results. It is possible for this entire affair to remain a mystery for quite some time. That will certainly leave open a large number of questions and certain uncertainty. Not only from the aspect of the present moment, but long-term as well.

Otherwise, a couple of facts in relations to the attempt are obvious. In principle, an attempt on the life of a head of state has concrete political implications. It is also a fact that the assassination attempt was carried out at a very sensitive moment for the Republic of Macedonia and the region. At a moment when Macedonia was entering the final phase of normalization of its relations with a part of its neighbors, when it was rounding off its position in the international structures and when it has become apparent that it is not backing down from its course of international development. Certainly, there is also the fact that the process of stabilization of the situation in the region started at that moment, as well as the final shaping of the new Balkan political reality. Enough serious reasons for certain structures or individuals, whichever, who don't have anything to gain from peace, stability, or democracy. Apart from that, I started receiving assassination threats from the first moment I took on the function of President of the Republic, due to various motives and from various sources. But, obviously, this time a specific interest was in question. Also, I would like to underline that I never underestimated those threats. Not from the aspect of my own life, as much as from the aspect of the fate of the country. And, I warned against the threat of terrorist acts, especially at the moments of the definite realization of the historical goals of our people and the stabilization of our state.

NM: Even after the attempt, Macedonia showed its stability. The institutions of the state are functioning unobstructed, and the citizens have shown a high level of awareness about their conduct. You were sent a large number of telegrams from the country and abroad. What were the main messages in the telegrams.

Kiro Gligorov: "That is what I find especially encouraging. The assassination attempt did not realize its basic goal. The Republic of Macedonia has shown that, as a state, it is mature and ready to take on the challenges of the new age. It has shown that the institutions of the system are functioning despite such criminal provocations. I am especially pleased with the fact that the citizens showed a high level of consciousness. I could sense that also from the large number of telegrams I received. They clearly demonstrated the determination of the citizens of Macedonia, regardless of their national or religious affiliation, to support the independence of the country, the internal peace and stability, and the international politics and goals. I am also pleased with the fact that the enormous number of telegrams I received from statesmen and friends throughout the world express enormous support for the independence of the Republic of Macedonia and its equal place in the international community. That is what has given me enough energy to go through this dramatic moment for me and my family. And, certainly, not to back down from the basic political orientations I have stood for so far.

NM: Soon after the attempt on your life, the accord with Greece was ratified. Parliament made a decision to change the flag, and in only one month, Macedonia became a member of the Council of Europe, the OSCE and "Partnership for peace," which leads to NATO. This, in effect, meant a confirmation and realization of a political platform in which you personally put a lot of effort and greatly contributed to. This draws the question: What now? Is Macedonia standing firm in its orientation for integration into the European processes or will it ask for another alternative to seek inclusion in the international relations?

Kiro Gligorov: "As I already said, this fall was the period of definite strengthening of our country's position. The ratification of the Interim Accord with the Republic of Greece was an exceptionally important step for both countries and the wider stability in the region. The normalization of the mutual relations is one of the keys to peace in the Balkans. We have always claimed that and have therefore always expressed readiness for a full normalization of the relations and the quick resolution of the irrational dispute that has developed in our mutual relations. Therefore, it is very important that the assassination attempt did not cause an eventual delay in the decisions of Parliament, which was probably one of the goals.

Macedonia's membership in the Council of Europe and the OSCE, as well as to the NATO project 'Partnership for peace,' are also events of exceptional importance. Those are the places that objectively belonged to us, immediately after the declaration of independence. Regretfully, the reasons why we faced a hard and difficult battle for the realization of these rights are well- known. Now they are behind us and the Republic of Macedonia can realize its political orientation and goals on a much firmer basis.

I agree with you that what we need now is some new activism, something that will strengthen our position in the European integrations. I don't see any reason or any circumstances that would force us to look for a different alternative for inclusion in the international relations, except for the European one. That is the most natural and most reasonable orientation for the Republic of Macedonia, because of the fact that Macedonia is a European country, not only according to its geographic position, but also according to its traditions and long-term political orientations. Macedonia strongly confirmed this in the past five-year period of Balkan tragedies and conflicts. The common European house is the broadest and safest framework for strengthening our country's independent position, for resolving the historical problems with the neighbors, and for paving the way towards economic progress, democracy and all-European cooperation. Especially for finally starting off the process of Europeanization of the Balkans, as the only way out of the Balkan divisions, wars, misunderstanding and intolerance.

NM: The UN brought a resolution according to which the stay of UNPREDEP in Macedonia is extended another six months, and not only 12 as it was initially announced. This shortening of the term of the UN forces in Macedonia has caused some confusion, and even fear. While on one hand, it was claimed that Macedonia was still in danger, the other world power - Russia, was categoric that the danger has passed in Macedonia and that there is no need for the UN forces to stay on in Macedonia. What is your opinion on this?

Kiro Gligorov: "Personally, I am convinced, and every citizen of the Republic of Macedonia would be very pleased if our country was not longer in danger and that there is no need for the UN forces to be present at a part of our borders. But, also, I am convinced that that will happen at the moment when a concrete result of the general stability in the region is reached and when we overcome the well-known reasons for the presence of UNPREDEP in the Republic. Their presence so far, confirms that, which is also a shared opinion of both the Security Council and the broader international community. The differences that arose in the Council of Europe are a result of concrete regional interests. Finally, that also confirms the need for the to-date presence of UNPREDEP in our country. But, I wouldn't fear for that, those are issues that the Security Council itself will discuss and assess, on the basis of arguments, and in the interest of the peace and stability in the south of the Balkans.

NM: The peace accord signed in Dayton and Paris will cause and has already caused some commotion in the region. Although all the details from this accord are not yet known, it is clear that there will be some serious problems surrounding the succession of Yugoslavia, and some secret bargaining between the successors to Yugoslavia are in sight. Where will Macedonia find itself after Dayton and Paris, and will the accords have an influence on its position and stability?

Kiro Gligorov: The Dayton, i.e. Paris peace accord is a historic act in itself, that marks the end to a very cruel and tragic war. A war that caused the death of many innocent people, ethnic genocide, destruction, and wider instability in the region. This accord promises a lot, especially from the aspect of the strong orientation of the international community, and especially NATO to achieve peace in Bosnia-Herzegovina and to stabilize the Balkan region. That certainly will not be easy, nor without any additional problems. Lets hope that peace will be established on a long-term basis in the interest of all the nations in the region.

A part of the goals of this international enterprise is also the final resolution of the remaining questions from the break up of the former SFRY. That certainly touches to sensitive questions - the question of state continuity and the question of succession of the former SFRY. Our official stand is that those question should be resolved in accordance with the principles and decisions expressed in the Budinter report, the decisions of the EU and the UN. That is to say, according to the basic principle and conclusion that SFRY no longer exists and that all six republics are equal successors. That includes the state continuity and inheritance. Finally, those are known and determined principles of international law and practice. And, time will show if certain secret "bargaining" between the successors is possible, out of pragmatic or other reasons. Apart from that, I am convinced that the disruption of these principles can only add to new confusion, misunderstanding and even uncertainty in the region.

After Dayton and Paris, Macedonia is still standing firm in its well-known and determined position. Meaning, as an independent and sovereign state oriented towards the European integrations and on the basis of the principles of equidistance, strongly orientated towards full cooperation with all neighbors. From this aspect, it is standing firm in its position that it is one of the six equal successors to the former SFRY. We hope that will not be a reason for disrupting its stability, since that could not mean anything else except a new conflict in the Balkans."

NM: Your firm orientation for a policy of equidistance towards our neighbors, in various period, and especially now when Macedonia is about to experience some historical resolutions, is coming across criticism on the part of some individuals and party groups in the country, and sometimes that criticism is intonated by political currents with our neighbors. What is it that bothers them so much in this orientation for equal treatment in the building of friendly relations with all the neighboring countries?

Kiro Gligorov: "The policy of equidistance is based on a couple of principles. First, on the historical experience of the Macedonian nation and the current principles of the new European architecture, which means equal relations and cooperation with all neighbors. Without precedence, exclusiveness or a privileged position or relation towards any of them. Second, it is an active principle based on full and open cooperation with all, under conditions of open borders and respect of the principles of non-interference in internal affairs, mutual interest and equal cooperation.

Your rightfully noted that this policy is coming across certain skepticism, remarks and even open distrust. And, that would not be a problem provided a more effective alternative would be offered. And, I don't see it in the criticisms you mentioned, because, in some of them, the alternative is closer relations with only one of the neighbors. In others, the label "conservative" or "inefficient policy" is attached. I can't see anything else behind all of this except being connected with one of the neighbors again, only hidden behind the concept of pragmatism in the moves. Therefore, this criticism did not find any support in the Macedonian public. And not only that, but I can say with conviction that the policy of equidistance resulted with peace and stability in the Republic of Macedonia, and with the strengthening of its independence and the start of a new era of good-neighborliness in the Balkans.

NM: There is speculation in Greece again that the Interim Accord foresees negotiations over the name of our state. Will such negotiations take place, and will Macedonia agree to any kind of changes to its constitutional name?

Kiro Gligorov: "The Interim Accord foresees, what is also logical, for both countries to discuss the name differences over the name of the Republic of Macedonia. Finally, that was the basic reason for the irrational dispute in our relations. Before the Accord, and after it, we are prepared to hold such talks and to present our arguments. However, there are no changes in our stand that our name is the Republic of Macedonia, and that this is not and can not be the reason for the disruption of our relations with neighboring Greece, or that it can cause a threat of territorial aspirations towards Greece or destabilization in the region. Furthermore, we are convinced that there is no foundation in the international law or documents that could bring into question the inviolable right of a nation to self- orientation, to expressing its own national identity and in this framework, its own name. I truly believe that the normalization of the relations with Greece, following the Interim Accord, will open a new era of friendship and cooperation between our two nations, directed to live with one another and to work together in the interest of the peace and stability in the Balkans. On this occasion, I would like to repeat that we have a hundred times more reasons for friendship and cooperation, than to fall back to historical frustrations, dogmas and prejudice, which can not bring anything good neither to the Greek or the Macedonian people, nor the Republic of Macedonia or the Republic of Greece.

NM: The relations with Bulgaria are still burdened with historic inheritance and the remnants are still alive there incorporated in the thesis that the Macedonian nation is of Bulgarian character and that the Macedonian language does not exist. Do you see possibilities in the near future for final overcoming of these historic remnants and for an establishment of good and friendly relations?

Kiro Gligorov: After the war experience that we had in Bosnia and Herzegovina I hope that all the Balkan nations and countries have learnt some lessons. In spite of the fact that the whole Balkan history of 19 and 20 century has represented a tragic experience and all rational and well-intentioned people would already have to have learnt a lesson. In this sense the remnants that you mentioned are another sad Balkan anachronism, moreover they today represent an ordinary political blindness. Unfortunately, they are still there.

After the proclamation of the independence of the Republic of Macedonia, Bulgaria was the first neighbor to recognize our state. It is a significant investment for the perspectives of our relations. However, burdened with the so- called historic remnants, today it is obstructing the real possibilities for an overall cooperation. Let us hope that political realism will prevail in these relations because it is in the interest of the future of the two nations and countries. We have jointly concluded the same thing with the president of the Republic of Bulgaria Zeliu Zelev on so many occasions. It is a fact that we have a development of good relations with neighborly Bulgaria, and the moment they are freed from historic prejudices, they will represent a real example of good neighborliness.

NM: Within the framework of relations with the neighbors there is also the question related to Albania. In which phase are these relations?

Kiro Gligorov: The relations with the Republic of Albania are being developed in all fields. Our relations are particularly important for a larger security in the region as two countries in transition, oriented toward Europe, and normally as two countries in which nationalities from the two sides live. I would herein like to point out to the fact that the historic tradition of co-existence between the Macedonians and the Albanians is of particular significance, as well s the present orientation that the rights of the Albanian nationality in the Republic of Macedonia should be solved within the Constitution and the internationally defined standards. It is the only platform for the reinforcement of mutual confidence and cooperation, and for joint efforts for peace and stability in the south of the Balkans.

NM: Your last international activity before the assassination attempt was your meeting with the president of Serbia Slobodan Miloshevich after which it was announced that Serbia and Montenegro would recognize Macedonia by the end of the month. Two and a half months have passed since, but this has not taken place yet. What is burdening the relations with Serbia in the newly created conditions?

Kiro Gligorov: Yes, it is true, a mutual recognition was announced within this term. On that occasion, just after the meeting, I stated that a complete normalization between the Republic of Macedonia and the FR Yugoslavia is of great importance for both countries and nations, for the perspectives of stability in the region, particularly because after the breaking-up of SFRY, there were not any animosity and disputes between the two countries, we do not have any territorial disputes, Macedonia did not take part in the war, former Yugoslav National Army left Macedonia upon an agreement. We also have enough positive historical traditions; immediately after World War II the Assemblies of Serbia and Montenegro recognized the existence of the Republic of Macedonia and the Macedonian people, which was the basis for half a century of coexistence in the same Federation. In that sense, there are no actual reasons to further delay mutual recognition. I am convinced this is of mutual interest and the best alternative for our relations, which should be realized as soon as possible, or should I say, immediately.

NM: Mr. President, how do you assess the degree of realization of the social, political and economic reforms in Macedonia and are you satisfied with the speed they are being realized at?

Kiro Gligorov: "Under the given circumstances, the satisfaction is relative. We have really achieved many important things in a very short period, and in some segments there have been radical social, political and economic changes. I have said many times that the period of transition is a hard and painful process causing serious social and political problems and movements. What is even more important is that it is a process for which there are no ready-made verified recipes. That is evident in the whole post-socialist European reality.

In a matter of a couple of years, the Republic of Macedonia has managed to fortify the basis and practices of parliamentary democracy. That is the direction which guarantees democratic processes. Radical changes have been initiated in the ownership structure and enlivenment of market economy. The third judicial power is also constituted step by step. Those are facts that cannot be neglected. But, it is also a fact that we are faced with a line of difficult problems, especially in the economic sphere. They were additionally complicated with the consequences from the sanctions against Serbia and Montenegro and the Greek embargo against our country, as well as the delay in the process of enabling our country to approach the European market, not at our fault. There are also some weaknesses and omissions of a subjective nature, which can not be reduced under the common denominator "speed" of changes, because there is also certain disorientation and not always wisely made decisions. However, the basic thing is that there is not deviation from the basic course of reforms.

NM: There are different assessments surrounding the development of the democratic processes in Macedonia, which go from total denial to self-satisfaction and self-praise, and which point to the fact that things are at a standstill at the moment, i.e. that Macedonia has not received all the segments of democracy, the necessary division of the executive, legislative and judicial power, as well as the necessary citizens' associations, through which the pressure of the public opinion on the authorities is felt. What are your assessments about the democracy of the freedom of the critical spirit and the public word in the state?

Kiro Gligorov: Well, I would like to point out that the different assessments are also an expression of the democratic processes in the country. Black and white pictures don't exist if one wants to seriously analyze the democratic processes. We have neither adopted the full democratic spaces in order to be pat ourselves on the back, but neither can I accept full denial, because that simply is not true!

The Constitution, but also practice, in the two mandates, is going toward further build-up and functioning of the three types of power. Problems, from this aspect, still exist, and they will continue to exist for a longer period, which is a normal expression of the creation of a new social, economic and political system and atmosphere. These are not revolutionary changes which will be able to take place over night. The basic achievement is that we did not chose that type of adventurism in the last five years. The question of civil initiative and democratic public is also a question that requires time. I believe that this is the course in which a part of the democratic processes are moving in the country. The same applies to the question of freedom of the criticism and the public word in the state. I advocate the view that freedom does not have definite borders, but it also bears responsibility. Freedom is a right, but also an obligation. You can have as much of it as you respect it with others. The right to criticism and public speech is an inviolable democratic right and responsibility. In this sense, I am very much encouraged by the course in which the mass media in the Republic of Macedonia are developing, and particularly the criticism that can be spotted in a part of the creativity and intellectual circles.

NM: You must also have some views about the internal situation in the country, i.e. the relations between the political parties, like those which formed the winning coalition at the elections, as well as those which are in opposition. Can you give an insight into this situation?

Kiro Gligorov: "At the beginning, I must underline that throughout this period, i.e. after the first and second elections, I was trying hard to adhere to the principle that I am the president of all the citizens. In this sense, despite the fact that I was elected at direct elections as a candidate of the Alliance for Macedonia, today, I am equally interested in creating a healthy political climate and competition in the country. This refers to the situation in the coalition, but also to the situation in the opposition. The power structure is such as the majority citizens in the country had decided upon. The opposition outside Parliament decided itself to withdraw from the second round of elections and thus, to step out from the democratic test in taking power. One year after the elections, certain political changes in the inter-party relations are obvious. A part of them are logical processes in view of the fact that the process of social and political stratification, as well as the further shaping of the parties, is a lasting process.

The Alliance for Macedonia gathered a number of the parties in the country on a unique platform, and it won the elections. Today, changes are obvious within the Alliance. I would not like to give concrete assessments on them, but I would like to say that the unique platform of the Alliance was not just an election key for me, but a basis for democratic and efficient accomplishment of power. It was not a place for domination or exclusive rights, it was not a place for covering up narrow party ambitions and interests, it was not something that you could use once in order to occupy or take positions in the authority, but it was a structure for democratic competition of ideas and views, on a unique platform and with common goals. I hope that some of the Alliance's subjects will act in this way also in the future, regardless of some present discrepancies.

As far as the opposition is concerned, I am happy to see some optimism with a part of the parties that are outside Parliament, particularly when it is in the interest of developing a democratic atmosphere in the country.

NM: Just after the assassination attempt, some foreign mass media published some speculations which were broadcast also in our mass media, on your possible successor. These speculations upset the domestic political scene and aroused the planning of new combinations and coalitions in the structuring of power. Do you regard them to be a normal reaction or a preliminary preparation for the next elections?

Kiro Gligorov: Well, there had been such speculations even before the assassination attempt. A part of them are probably normal, and perhaps also a preparation for the next elections. The assassination attempt had probably counted on that too. It would be inappropriate for me to comment that from an ethical aspect. However, from a political aspect, I would like to say that a successor will certainly not be looked for in Macedonia, because we are neither a monarchy, nor a dictatorship. I am convinced that at regular and direct elections, in conformity with the Constitution and the laws, the citizens of the Republic of Macedonia will again elect the president of their state.

NM: What are your main engagements now, who visits you most often and when do you plan to fully take over your presidential duties?

Kiro Gligorov: "I usually spend the day in my preparations for resuming the office at the beginning of next year. I have regular meetings with the chairman of the Assembly and the Prime Minister, I have regular meetings with my associates and friends. Normally, with you, journalists, as well."

(end)